The Promised Land:

[Eternally Grateful]

Many many reasons.
They do not accept Jesus, they believe they are the Messiah. They also don’t believe the words of Paul.

That has no bearing on who their blood ancestors were

Jesus said spoke about a group that claim to be Jews but they are liars.

Yea. Talking about Spiritual israel. of which even you and I are apart of if you are born again

They said they have never been in bondage, but Israel was in bondage in Egypt.

They were in bondage to Hitler.. They would never claim what you said..

They haven’t fulfilled any of the prophecies concerning Israel.

Many many reasons….

so you have no proof they are not BLOOD relatives of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

thank you. I see you can not prove your point

 

[Truthnightmare]

That has no bearing on who their blood ancestors were

Yea. Talking about Spiritual israel. of which even you and I are apart of if you are born again

They were in bondage to Hitler.. They would never claim what you said..

so you have no proof they are not BLOOD relatives of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

thank you. I see you can not prove your point

They would never claim what you said

Really….
John 8
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

So much for your accusations.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Really….
John 8
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

So much for your accusations.

lol

So where they correct?

they were in bondage to Rome at this time..

Being a disciple of Jesus does not make you a physical Jew and as such, owner of the land of Israel.

 

[Truthnightmare]

lol

So where they correct?

they were in bondage to Rome at this time..

Being a disciple of Jesus does not make you a physical Jew and as such, owner of the land of Israel.

Perhaps you should look at what they said in depth.

They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free

Bondage
Original Word: δουλεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: douleuó
Phonetic Spelling: (dool-yoo'-o)
Definition: to be a slave, to serve
Usage: I am a slave, am subject to, obey, am devoted.

They were not salves in Rome.
Paul was a Jew (Israelite)!of Benjamin, he was not a slave he was a Roman citizen.

Acts 22:27
Then the chief captain came, and said unto him, Tell me, art thou a Roman? He said, Yea.”

 

[Truthnightmare]

That has no bearing on who their blood ancestors were

Yea. Talking about Spiritual israel. of which even you and I are apart of if you are born again

They were in bondage to Hitler.. They would never claim what you said..

so you have no proof they are not BLOOD relatives of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

thank you. I see you can not prove your point

Bondage to Hitler? After the Bolshevik revolution in Russia, the Jews were expelled, and Germany took them in. They became bankers, heads of media, and many prominent positions.
It wasn’t until the council of nations where the Balfour declaration was presented that the troubles began.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Perhaps you should look at what they said in depth.

They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free

Bondage
Original Word: δουλεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: douleuó
Phonetic Spelling: (dool-yoo'-o)
Definition: to be a slave, to serve
Usage: I am a slave, am subject to, obey, am devoted.

They were not salves in Rome.
Paul was a Jew (Israelite)!of Benjamin, he was not a slave he was a Roman citizen.

Acts 22:27
Then the chief captain came, and said unto him, Tell me, art thou a Roman? He said, Yea.”

lol..so they are paul.

Thanks again..

do you know much about history?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Bondage to Hitler? After the Bolshevik revolution in Russia, the Jews were expelled, and Germany took them in. They became bankers, heads of media, and many prominent positions.
It wasn’t until the council of nations where the Balfour declaration was presented that the troubles began.

so you deny the holocaust?

 

[Truthnightmare]

lol..so they are paul.

Thanks again..

do you know much about history?

They are Paul?

Do you not understand
“By the time of Jesus the word Edom or Edomite had been translated by Greek and Latin into ae-Ioudaios-Iudaeusalso including in this meaning were the terms Judea-Judean or person living in Judea. The original King James version of the Bible 1611 translated Idumaean - Judean into Iewes. It wasn't until the revised editions of the King James Bible, that the word jew appeared (after the year 1900 ).” Christian guard.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

They are Paul?

Do you not understand
“By the time of Jesus the word Edom or Edomite had been translated by Greek and Latin into ae-Ioudaios-Iudaeusalso including in this meaning were the terms Judea-Judean or person living in Judea. The original King James version of the Bible 1611 translated Idumaean - Judean into Iewes. It wasn't until the revised editions of the King James Bible, that the word jew appeared (after the year 1900 ).” Christian guard.

what does this have to do with Israel. who at the time, were slaves to Rome?

 

[Truthnightmare]

what does this have to do with Israel. who at the time, were slaves to Rome?

What it means is you don’t know the difference from a Jew who is of Judah and a person who has converted to Judaism.

It also shows you don’t know the difference between the house of Judah and the house of Israel.

Jeremiah 31:31
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What it means is you don’t know the difference from a Jew who is of Judah and a person who has converted to Judaism.

It also shows you don’t know the difference between the house of Judah and the house of Israel.

Jeremiah 31:31
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

God made his promise to the 12 children of Jacob and all of their physical descendents.

I could care less who converts to judaism.. TThey are not my concern in this topic.

You did not answer. Do you deny the holocost?

 

[Jay Ross]

Did God promise it to them and their families as an eternal gift?

Gen 15:
18 On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:

“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— 19 the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”

Gen 17: 7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

Perhaps it would be best if you did some study on the Hebrew text and the meanings of the words found there. I have done this because the translators have not concisely or accurately conveyed the context of the Hebrew text into their English translations.

Gen 15:18-21 is the description the land that they will possess for a time so that they can know that God's Promise of the whole earth will become a reality in the distant future as Daniel wrote in Daniel 7:26-27: -

26 ‘ But the court shall be seated,​

And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.​

27 Then the kingdom and dominion,​

And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’​

and in Daniel 12: - 1-4: -

12:1 “At that time Michael shall stand up,​

The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.​

2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,​

Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.​

3 Those who are wise shall shine​

Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.​

4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”​

Notice that at the end of time when the Israelites are delivered that the land has no real part in whether they receive everlasting Lift or everlasting contempt.

Your fixation on a Promised Land plays little part in the outcome as described by Daniel.

As for the Genesis 17:7-8 passage that you have also quoted, after consulting an interlinear I would paraphrase these two verses in this way: -

7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their ages, a covenant that will last until the vanishing point of time in this time period occurs, for the purpose of being God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give this entity, to your descendants after you, the country in which you are a stranger, all the country of Canaan, for a long period of time {where the vanishing point for this time period is in the {distant} future} as a possession; and I will be their God."​

Now if we consider the promise that God would give Abraham's descendants the country of Canaan as a possession, this was fulfilled when Joshua lead Israel over the river Jordan into the Land of Canaan to possess it. However, because of Israel's continual idolatrous worship God also told Israel that if they continued with their idolatrous worship that He would remove them from the land of Canaan and scatter them throughout the whole earth and that they would be trampled upon wherever they were found to be living until they repented and turned once more back to God. Again, the "Promised Land" does not figure in this redemption. Only their repentance of no longer wanting the have Satan as their King and master figures in their redemption.

Shalom

 

[Truthnightmare]

God made his promise to the 12 children of Jacob and all of their physical descendents.

I could care less who converts to judaism.. TThey are not my concern in this topic.

You did not answer. Do you deny the holocost?

Agreed.. And you seem to understand the promises given to Israel. What I believe you are missing is that when the 12 tribes split into two houses prophets changed. Not the promise given but the road to the promises.

For example:
But houses for in trouble, for disobedience, but their punishments were different.

The Southern Kingdom:
Consisted of two of the tribes (Judah and Benjamin) and were called Judahwith their capital in Jerusalem.

Judah punished:
Because of idolatry, God also punished Judah, and the Two Tribe Southern Kingdom Judah was taken into captivity by the Babylonians. In 477 B.C.* Nebuchadnezzar took Jerusalem and destroyed the Temple of God (the same location of the Temple Mount in modern Israel). At this time there are still no Jews, there is only the Kingdom of Judah. ‘Jew’ is a term that we will explain later, but for now understand that it is a religious designation and not a national identifier. In other words, contrary to popular misconception, you are not born a Jew but become one by that particular brand of religion (Judaism). More on that later. [ *all dating as per Companion Bible by E.W. Bullinger]

The Northern Kingdom:
Consisting of the other Ten Tribes were called Israel and their capital was at Samaria.

Israel punished:
Because of idolatry, God punished Israel, and The Ten Tribe Israel nation was taken into captivity by the Assyrians and Israel became a province of Assyria in 611 B.C.* and the people Israel dropped out of the Biblical narrative and profane history as well for the most part. They became not a people (lo-ammi).

I believe there was a holocaust, but I believe it was greatly exaggerated.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Perhaps it would be best if you did some study on the Hebrew text and the meanings of the words found there. I have done this because the translators have not concisely or accurately conveyed the context of the Hebrew text into their English translations.

Gen 15:18-21 is the description the land that they will possess for a time so that they can know that God's Promise of the whole earth will become a reality in the distant future as Daniel wrote in Daniel 7:26-27: -

26 ‘ But the court shall be seated,​

And they shall take away his dominion,​

To consume and destroy it forever.​

27 Then the kingdom and dominion,​

And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,​

Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.​

His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,​

And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’​

and in Daniel 12: - 1-4: -

12:1 “At that time Michael shall stand up,​

The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;​

And there shall be a time of trouble,​

Such as never was since there was a nation,​

Even to that time.​

And at that time your people shall be delivered,​

Every one who is found written in the book.​

2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,​

Some to everlasting life,​

Some to shame and everlasting contempt.​

3 Those who are wise shall shine​

Like the brightness of the firmament,​

And those who turn many to righteousness​

Like the stars forever and ever.​

4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”​

Notice that at the end of time when the Israelites are delivered that the land has no real part in whether they receive everlasting Lift or everlasting contempt.

Your fixation on a Promised Land plays little part in the outcome as described by Daniel.

As for the Genesis 17:7-8 passage that you have also quoted, after consulting an interlinear I would paraphrase these two verses in this way: -

7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their ages, a covenant that will last until the vanishing point of time in this time period occurs, for the purpose of being God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give this entity, to your descendants after you, the country in which you are a stranger, all the country of Canaan, for a long period of time {where the vanishing point for this time period is in the {distant} future} as a possession; and I will be their God."​

Now if we consider the promise that God would give Abraham's descendants the country of Canaan as a possession, this was fulfilled when Joshua lead Israel over the river Jordan into the Land of Canaan to possess it. However, because of Israel's continual idolatrous worship God also told Israel that if they continued with their idolatrous worship that He would remove them from the land of Canaan and scatter them throughout the whole earth and that they would be trampled upon wherever they were found to be living until they repented and turned once more back to God. Again, the "Promised Land" does not figure in this redemption. Only their repentance of no longer wanting the have Satan as their King and master figures in their redemption.

Shalom

You should study more

Gen 17: 7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in[f] which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

everlasting in any language means everlasting..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Agreed.. And you seem to understand the promises given to Israel. What I believe you are missing is that when the 12 tribes split into two houses prophets changed. Not the promise given but the road to the promises.

For example:
But houses for in trouble, for disobedience, but their punishments were different.

The Southern Kingdom:
Consisted of two of the tribes (Judah and Benjamin) and were called Judahwith their capital in Jerusalem.


The Northern Kingdom:
Consisting of the other Ten Tribes were called Israel and their capital was at Samaria.

Lev 26 says they will be punished as they were. But it also says If they repent. God will remember the promises made to the 12 children

I believe there was a holocaust, but I believe it was greatly exaggerated.

Exaggerated.

how do you exaggerate bodies being gassed, burned alive, starved to death so that they are literally skeletons. Mass graves, Medical experiments done on them

can you tell me that?

thats like say they did not behead babies, thy just shot them in their crimes, so it is not all that bad.

 

[Jay Ross]

You project your own actions upon me, and by this same measure it will be measured back to you.

ScottA, I have moved on from your silliness to address the thread's topic. Do you know where you are stuck, at this moment.

It seems to me that in your anger, all you are doing now is attempting to curse me. Not a good sign of your maturity in Christ.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Lev 26 says they will be punished as they were. But it also says If they repent. God will remember the promises made to the 12 children

Exaggerated.

how do you exaggerate bodies being gassed, burned alive, starved to death so that they are literally skeletons. Mass graves, Medical experiments done on them

can you tell me that?

thats like say they did not behead babies, thy just shot them in their crimes, so it is not all that bad.

Her you go bud…believe what you will.

the 6 million figure is exaggerated probably by a factor of ten. There were more like 600,000 not 6,000,000 Jews who died of ALL causes during WW II.

"With the help of one hundred pages of cross-checked statistics, professor Rassinier concludes in Le Drame des Juifs Europeen that the number of Jewish casualties during the Second World War could not have exceeded 1,200,000. However, he regards such a figure as a maximum limit" -- Did Six Million Really Die? The Truth At Last; pg. 27

The ugly little truth is that they (Jews) got rich off of the subsidies paid as reparations, reaped enormous International sympathy, and got a Nation as well (Israel). Four-fifths of the supposed 6 million Jewish victims that Germany was paying subsidies as reparations for were alive after the war. That should answer your question as to WHY the Jews would lie. Nobody mentions the 12 million Christians who died in WW II, nor were any reparations paid. I guess they don't count anymore, maybe they never did. Nor does anyone mention 'who' financed that war (the same people who financed BOTH sides of our American Civil War). Yeah, you got it, the 'victims,' the Rothschild's and the other International Jewish banking Family Cartels.

I've seen faked before and after photos of corpses superposed in front of Concentration camp inmates:

FAKE death camp PHOTOGRAPHS

Excerpted from: -- Did Six Million Really Die? The Truth At Last; pg. 23 & 24

"Not only were situations such as those at Belsen unscrupulously exploited for propaganda purposes, but this propaganda has also made use of entirely fake atrocity photographs and films. The extreme conditions at Belsen applied to very few camps indeed; the great majority escaped the worst difficulties and their inmates survived in good health. As a result, outright forgeries were used to exaggerate conditions of horror.

A startling case of such forgery was revealed in the British Catholic Herald of October 29, 1948. It reported that in Cassel, where every adult German was compelled to see a film representing the "horrors" of Buchenwald, a doctor from Goettingen saw himself on the Screen looking after the victims. But he had never been to Buchenwald. After an interval of bewilderment he realized that what he had seen was part of a film taken after the terrible air raid on Dresden by the Allies on 13 February, 1945 where the doctor had been working. The film in question was shown in Cassel on 19 October, 1948. After the air raid on Dresden, which killed a record 135,000 people, mostly refugee women and children, the bodies of the victims were piled and burned in heaps of 400 and 500 for several weeks. These were the scenes, purporting to be from Buchenwald, which the doctor had recognized.

The forgery of war-time atrocity photographs is not new. For further information the reader is referred to Falsehood in Wartime (London, 1928) by Arthur Ponsonby MP, which exposes the faked photographs of German atrocities in the First World War. Ponsonby cites such fabrications as "The Corpse Factory" and "The Belgian Baby without Hands," which are strikingly reminiscent of the propaganda relating to Nazi ‘atrocities’. F.J. P. Wale explains in his book that the bogus "jar of human soap" solemnly introduced by the Soviet prosecution at Nuremberg was a deliberate jibe at the famous British "Corpse Factory" myth, in which the ghoulish Germans were supposed to have obtained various commodities from processing corpses (Times 17 April 1917, p.5; Veale, ibid, p. 192; The Penguin Book of Lies, Kerr, London, 1990, p. 301). The accusation was one for which the British Government apologized after 1918.

It received new life after 1945 in the tale of lamp shades of human skin, which was certainly as fraudulent as the Soviet "human soap". In fact, from Manvell and Frankl we have the grudging admission that the lamp shade evidence at the Buchenwald Trial "later appeared to be dubious" (The Incomparable Crime, p. 84).

It was given by a certain Andreas Pfaffenberger in a "written affidavit" of the kind discussed earlier, but in 1948 General Lucius Clay admitted that the affidavits used in the trial appeared after more thorough investigation to have been mostly ‘hearsay’.​

 

[Truthnightmare]

Chambers and the Zyklon B Gas

I've heard of the so-called Gas Chambers (really shower rooms) with their floor drains linked by sewer to the German Officers Mess Hall (Hardly the ideal set-up for the introduction of poisonous gas.) I've heard the Scientific analysis of the Zyklon B Gas that was supposedly used to exterminate millions of Jews. It is ill suited as an agent for human extermination (it was an insect pesticide). There were no Gas Chambers.

Chemical Analysis From The Dupont Chemical Co. Publication 7-83​

"Time of exposure depends on the type of pests to be attacked; for the destruction of the various types of moths and their pre-adult stages 24 hours will suffice, against other kinds of insectpests one should fumigate for 48 hours. If there are any dense stowages or bulkss of commodities to penetrate, the time of exposure may need to be extended to 72 hours." -- (Excerpted from the Dupont Chemical Co. analysis and method of use (on insects). Complete analisis at the end of this article)

I've seen pictures of the ovens that were so few in number (2 at one camp) with which they would probably still be burning the so-called 6,000,000 bodies today. I've read the outrageous claims:

"...Although Reitinger's 6,000 a day would mean a total by October 1944 of over 5 million, all such estimates pale before the wild fantasies of Olga Lengyel in her book Five Chimneys(London, 1959). Claiming to be a former inmate of Aushwitz, she asserts that the camp cremated no less than "720 per hour, or 17,280 corpses per 24 hour shift." She also alleges that, in addition, 8,000 people were burned every day in the "death pits" and that "In round numbers, about 24,000 corpses were handled every day" (p, 80-81). This, of course, would mean a yearlt rate of over 8 ½ million. Thus between march 1942 and October 1944 Auschwitz would finally disposed of over 21 million people, six million more than the entire world Jewish population. Comment is superfluous." -- Did Six Million Really Die? The Truth At Last; pg. 15

German Soldiers Confess To Jewish Interrogators After WW II; What's Wrong With This picture?

"...Van Roden [American judge Edward van Roden, investigator for the 'methods of justice' at the Dachau trials] explained: "The statements which were then admitted as evidence were obtained from men who had first been kept in solitary confinement for three, four, five months...The investigators would put a black hood over the [German soldiers] accused's head and then punch him in the face with brass knuckles, kick him and beat him with rubber hoses... All but two of the German's, in the 139 cases we investigated, had been kicked in the testicles beyond repair. This was standard operating procedure with our American investigators."
The "American" investigators responsible (and who later functioned as the prosecution in the trials) and his assistants, Capt. Raphael Shumacker, Lt. Robert E. Byrne, Lt. William R. Perl, Mr. Morris Ellowitz, Mr. harry Thon,and Mr. Kirschbaum. The legal advisor of the court was Col. A. H. Rosenfield. The reader will immediately appreciate from their names that the majority of these people were "biased on racial grounds" in the words of Justice Wenrsturm - that is, were Jewish, and therefore should never have been involved in any such investigation." -- Did Six Million Really Die? The Truth At Last; pg. 10

Didn’t you ever wonder why the Zionists pursue some sad-sack German soldier Concentration Camp Guard for decades and then charge the underling with war crimes when he could have never disobeyed his orders to begin with? It’s all hype and propaganda to reinforce the Jewish persecution myth. They are the persecutors if anybody is. Why don’t we hunt down and prosecute the American Soldiers who participated in the Mai Lia Massacre. Because they were men under orders in a time of war! Believe what you will, but it is one big organized Zionist plot.

Unfortunately, no mainstream bookseller will carry the titles that document this and any other ' unfavorable' facts about the Jews. They control all media, both printed, publishing houses, visual, radio, and they are working on controlling the internet (did you see who bought out A.O.L. several months ago?)

However, you are in luck. Below is a Website that carries many such books, for now. Check especially the Suppressed Titles (SU) Section, specifically the book referenced Did Six Million Really Die? The Truth At Last. It has many photo's regarding your questions.

 

[Jay Ross]

You should study more

Gen 17: 7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in[f] which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

everlasting in any language means everlasting.

Sounds like you are still stuck in the misunderstanding of the Jewish people back when they thought that they had the Temple to protect them from the Babylonians. They believed that God would not scatter them abroad to the four corners of the earth. But He has.

For God's redemption plan for all of the peoples of the earth to work, God needs His Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His possession among the nations, for people to hear of His redemption plan for all of them.

It seems to me that you are arguing against God's redemption plan by insisting that the Israelites have to return to the "Promise Land" first, when God purposely scattered them to the four corners of the earth as He foretold to Jacob on his way to Laban to get a wife, and then on his way down to Egypt because of the famine in the land, that He, God, would gather them all back to Himself at the end of His redemptive plan for all of the earth.

Now as to your point that I need to study the scriptures more, I agree with you, just like you also need to study the scripture more for yourself.

God is still revealing more treasures to me about His redemptive plan for all of mankind.

Shalom

 

[Jack]

Israel is back to stay! God bless Israel!