The Proof of Salvation

[APAK]

In order to quote the relevant words, simply highlight them and hit *Reply* which appears at the bottom. Otherwise we do not know whom you are addressing.

And you can give APAK all the Scriptures you want but that will not change his doctrine. And CoreIssue is another one with a weird doctrine about Christ. And again, you can give him all the Scriptures, and it won't make an iota of difference. That's the general trend on Christian forums.

Enoch, not just focused here on your response.....others as well

Well I see I have awoken the natives once again….

Yes, ‘scripture thrown out or given to at me’ from folks that lack the knowledge of it... I will ignore giving a response every time.

Let’s look at a simple and an explicit scripture as John’s writing seem to be very hard to understand I see, for most.

Let’s go to Paul and his Romans book. Romans 15:6 should be an easy verse to understand I would think. And yet is will prove again difficult for most because of carnal truth fixations and imaginations.

(Rom 15:6) That with one mind and with one mouth you may glorify God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (DRB) Catholic version

Now here, true believers are to glorify God with one mind and voice as Jesus taught (see verse 5). All believers should glorify God. And who is God. It says he is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Not that Jesus is the Father and God of himself. That would make no sense at all. And yet most of Christendom says Jesus is God. The Father is the only true God. Well, I guess to make the Trinity hypothesis stick, one has to just ignore the explicit meanings of such scripture as Romans 15:6b and dozens more scripture. What does Romans 15:6b say about the Trinity then? It says clearly it is false and that Jesus is not God, he is Jesus the Christ, born of his Father, God! I rest my case…

Blessings,

APAK

 

[CoreIssue]

And right here is the core issue of why your understanding of the Godhead is off target. Man is not made up of two different beings each having a different nature... Each having a different personality . And one being mortal and the other immortal that lives on with all the same attributes and senses the living person has when walking, talking, working, communicating etc on this earth.
God only is immortal. God is Spirit. Therefore God is the only immortal spirit.
The spirit that returns to God when we die is not a separate living independantt entity . It is the life giving power that animates man and without which he dies. That is why the apostles and the early church looked forward to the resurrection. What you are teaching here is another left over from the Catholic apostasy you have yet to shed.

I never said to different beings. You apparently do not understand dual nature of a single being.

Did your prophetess Ellen G White teach this?

Your soul sleep is another reason the SDA is a cult. Plus your false prophetess.

 

[Ezra]

ya changed your story just a we bit ..but i did get my point across and got you to change the words of your post mission accomplished

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Jesus said, before Abraham was born, I am. And we are the ones with a lack of knowledge? He created the world, as the apostle says, He came into the world He created and it did not recognize Him. You say there is only one God and you are right. There is also only one Creator. So how does it say of Jesus, He came into the world He created? God created the world. Jesus created the world.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

ya changed your story just a we bit ..but i did get my point across and got you to change the words of your post mission accomplished

Aye yie yie, smh.

 

[CoreIssue]

Jesus said, before Abraham was born, I am. And we are the ones with a lack of knowledge? He created the world, as the apostle says, He came into the world He created and it did not recognize Him. You say there is only one God and you are right. There is also only one Creator. So how does it say of Jesus, He came into the world He created? God created the world. Jesus created the world.

Do you mean the human Jesus Christ or the second person of the Trinity within him?

Simple reality is as with John 1 it says the Word already existed and did not take on human flesh until the incarnation.

So how can you have something already existing becoming flesh? Not already being flesh?

Can you figure that one out your thinking?

It never says Jesus came into the world he created. Nowhere.

Those references are always about God, meaning the second person of the Trinity indwelling the flesh.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

No, I can't say that I CAN figure it out. But I figure He can manifest to us any way He darn well pleases.

 

[Ezra]

ya know we think we got it all figured out when it comes to salvation

 

[Jun2u]

The Proof of Salvation

I have not read all the posts except for the first and last pages of this thread, so what I’m about to say may already have been said.

Mark 12:28-33
28) And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29) And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord:
30) And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31) And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
32) And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
33) And to love him with all thy heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

Note how the scribe declares the above verses to be greater than Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross!

Jesus affirmed if by saying in the next verse, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.

To God Be The Glory

 

[tzcho2]

Tzcho2, it is very nice to meet you.

Thanks! You too!

 

[Waiting on him]

Quoted correctly. Word not word. Word meaning logos, God.

The flesh of Christ is not God nor did the flesh exist before the incarnation.

I agree the flesh profits nothing. It’s only fit for being naild to a tree

 

[CoreIssue]

No, I can't say that I CAN figure it out. But I figure He can manifest to us any way He darn well pleases.

He has. The second person of the Trinity appeared as the angel of God at times in the Old Testament. He appeared as a burning bush. As a tornado.

All three the Trinity appeared to Abraham as men.

The point being no the second person of the Trinity did not take on flesh until the incarnation. The Word is the second person of the Trinity, not Jesus Christ.

He incarnated in the flesh of Jesus Christ, but was not Jesus Christ.

You need to study up on the dual nature of Christ. Fully human in the flesh and fully God in the spirit.

You are you in your spirit, which resides in and operates through your flesh in this world.

The Bible calls our flesh vessels, meaning containers.

You are not your car, but when driving the car you in the car function together.

When you die only your flesh dies. Your spirit goes to heaven.

The second person of the Trinity did not die cross, his flesh did and the second person of the Trinity descended into the pit.

At the rapture the bodies of Saints will be resurrected and their spirits reenter those bodies.

 

[brakelite]

Did your prophetess Ellen G White teach this?

She did teach this, but not to me...she died 35 years before I was born. But the Bible teaches it too.
God only is immortal...
1Tim6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

God is Spirit.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

God is therefore the only immortal spirit.
See? I teach what the Bible teaches. Nothing more, nothing less. You're theory is based on a false premise...that the spirit of man is naturally immortal. That my friend, is a lie, and is merely a parroting of Satan's very first sermon on the subject in Genesis when he said to Eve, "thou shalt not surely die". A direct contradiction to God's own word, that she would. And if not for our Saviour stepping in at that time and saying, "I shall die instead", Eve would have surely died there and then, and no spirit, soul, or whatever would have survived in heaven, hell, or any other place.

To claim that the human spirit does not die but lives forever in hell...or heaven...without direct intervention by God, such as granting eternal life as a gift, which God does not do for sinners, then you're theories on the state of the dead turn to custard in light of Bible truth.

 

[brakelite]

He has. The second person of the Trinity appeared as the angel of God at times in the Old Testament. He appeared as a burning bush. As a tornado.

All three the Trinity appeared to Abraham as men.

The point being no the second person of the Trinity did not take on flesh until the incarnation. The Word is the second person of the Trinity, not Jesus Christ.

He incarnated in the flesh of Jesus Christ, but was not Jesus Christ.

You need to study up on the dual nature of Christ. Fully human in the flesh and fully God in the spirit.

You are you in your spirit, which resides in and operates through your flesh in this world.

The Bible calls our flesh vessels, meaning containers.

You are not your car, but when driving the car you in the car function together.

When you die only your flesh dies. Your spirit goes to heaven.

The second person of the Trinity did not die cross, his flesh did and the second person of the Trinity descended into the pit.

At the rapture the bodies of Saints will be resurrected and their spirits reenter those bodies.

Everything in this post is philosophical nonsense...the worst being you're contention that the second person of the trinity didn't die on the cross. If that is the case then my friend you are still in your sins. Only someone equal to or above the law can make atonement for the law. Just as only God can forgive sin...and no earthly priest. And if the Son of God didn't die, then you have to, because if not there was no propitiation.

 

[CoreIssue]

She did teach this, but not to me...she died 35 years before I was born. But the Bible teaches it too.
God only is immortal...
1Tim6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

God is Spirit.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

God is therefore the only immortal spirit.
See? I teach what the Bible teaches. Nothing more, nothing less. You're theory is based on a false premise...that the spirit of man is naturally immortal. That my friend, is a lie, and is merely a parroting of Satan's very first sermon on the subject in Genesis when he said to Eve, "thou shalt not surely die". A direct contradiction to God's own word, that she would. And if not for our Saviour stepping in at that time and saying, "I shall die instead", Eve would have surely died there and then, and no spirit, soul, or whatever would have survived in heaven, hell, or any other place.

To claim that the human spirit does not die but lives forever in hell...or heaven...without direct intervention by God, such as granting eternal life as a gift, which God does not do for sinners, then you're theories on the state of the dead turn to custard in light of Bible truth.

But her teachings are still Taught by your church.

 

[CoreIssue]

Everything in this post is philosophical nonsense...the worst being you're contention that the second person of the trinity didn't die on the cross. If that is the case then my friend you are still in your sins. Only someone equal to or above the law can make atonement for the law. Just as only God can forgive sin...and no earthly priest. And if the Son of God didn't die, then you have to, because if not there was no propitiation.

The Bible is quite clear only a human could pay for our sins. The second Adam.

God cannot die. He is eternal.

More SDA cult error.

 

[brakelite]

But her teachings are still Taught by your church.

Indeed they are...with one controversial exception, nevertheless, yep, I agree. So....I have asked you to be specific concerning those particular doctrines that you disagree with (presumably because you think they came into existence in EGWs imagination) , but you have refrained from doing so. You have mentioned soul sleep, the investigative judgement etc, that you disagree with them, but you haven't actually explained why you disagree. I would very much like to here, but am not hopeful of any good outcome because if you can deduce from scripture that man is naturally immortal in his spirit when scripture as per my post above says categorically otherwise, then the grounds of your objections to our doctrines must be rather tenuous at best...woefully inadequate at worst...and I tend toward the latter, particularly when I consider your post to @stunnedbygrace in regard to your defense of the trinity.

 

[CoreIssue]

She did teach this, but not to me...she died 35 years before I was born. But the Bible teaches it too.
God only is immortal...
1Tim6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

God is Spirit.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

God is therefore the only immortal spirit.
See? I teach what the Bible teaches. Nothing more, nothing less. You're theory is based on a false premise...that the spirit of man is naturally immortal. That my friend, is a lie, and is merely a parroting of Satan's very first sermon on the subject in Genesis when he said to Eve, "thou shalt not surely die". A direct contradiction to God's own word, that she would. And if not for our Saviour stepping in at that time and saying, "I shall die instead", Eve would have surely died there and then, and no spirit, soul, or whatever would have survived in heaven, hell, or any other place.

To claim that the human spirit does not die but lives forever in hell...or heaven...without direct intervention by God, such as granting eternal life as a gift, which God does not do for sinners, then you're theories on the state of the dead turn to custard in light of Bible truth.

Now your espousing the SDA belief of annihilation of the wicked.

Might as well kick in that you believe Christ is the Archangel Michael.

 

[Enoch111]

Well I see I have awoken the natives once again….

I like that. If you were a missionary to Trinitarian natives, they'd get that pot boiling!

And who is God. It says he is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Not that Jesus is the Father and God of himself. That would make no sense at all. And yet most of Christendom says Jesus is God.

So the simple explanation is as follows:

THE FATHER IS GOD (But He is not the Son or the Spirit)
THE SON IS GOD (But He is not the Father or the Spirit)
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD (But He is not the Father or the Son)

Yet there can only be one true God, therefore Jesus brings all three together under "the Name" (Hebrew Ha Shem).

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of [1] the Father, and of [2] the Son, and of [3] the Holy Ghost...(Mt 28:19)

 

[CoreIssue]

Indeed they are...with one controversial exception, nevertheless, yep, I agree. So....I have asked you to be specific concerning those particular doctrines that you disagree with (presumably because you think they came into existence in EGWs imagination) , but you have refrained from doing so. You have mentioned soul sleep, the investigative judgement etc, that you disagree with them, but you haven't actually explained why you disagree. I would very much like to here, but am not hopeful of any good outcome because if you can deduce from scripture that man is naturally immortal in his spirit when scripture as per my post above says categorically otherwise, then the grounds of your objections to our doctrines must be rather tenuous at best...woefully inadequate at worst...and I tend toward the latter, particularly when I consider your post to @stunnedbygrace in regard to your defense of the trinity.

This thread is not about the SDA. If you want to discuss that start a new thread.