The Proof of Salvation

[marks]

No...I explained, and still you have not acknowledged it. This is not a debate.

No, again. Things did not change at the cross - they were fulfilled, which is different than changed. God/Jesus are the same yesterday, today, and forever.

I am not going to say it again. You can read it again.

And this?

But why would you so readily conclude that I don't believe what Jesus said? And that I've done this out of a wilfull ignorance? Intellectual dishonesty? Why would you say that?

To be ignored?

 

[ScottA]

Let's see . . . you had mentioned that we would not be subordinate to God. #319
I had asked how you understood "His servants shall serve Him". #321
You replied with the allegorization of the passage.
I responded that I take it literally.
You replied comparing the Bible with children's stories, implying, well, whatever you were implying.
I then asked for Scriptural back up on your allegorization of the passage.
You then said we should fold up the Scriptures instead of unfolding them, that all the Bible is a parable.
I questioned trying to read the Bible that way.
We went back and forth on that for a bit, until . . .

#334 . . .

You were using "whatever a man sows, that he will also reap" as your foundation for saying that when God said the Holy Spirit would be poured out on all flesh unto judgment.

I said that was non-sequitor. I've asked you to show the link between these two and you have not.

Good, close enough.

I have not shown you a link between those two passages...because that is the Holy Spirit's job. He has shown me, but I cannot do the same for you. It is for Him to do, not me. My job is to testify to what God has assigned me. This I have done, and am doing.

You then moved on the those the Father would draw compared to all that the Son would draw after His death, seemingly with the intent of calling into dispute some rather plainly stated verses.

And here we are, spinning in circles, because you've made statements about the Bible I disagree with, and rather than support those statements with Chapter and verse and showing how this word and that word tell us that this means such and thus, well, we go in circles.

But that's OK. Many are that way.

Much love!
Mark

No, I have given you the scriptures, and this I have done even beyond the examples of quoted scriptures in the scriptures. That is the Way of things. You even quoted them back to me...which leaves you no excuse, except that the Holy Spirit has not confirmed it in you. Nonetheless, it is written, and the finishing acts are His.

 

[marks]

Good, close enough.

I have not shown you a link between those two passages...because that is the Holy Spirit's job. He has shown me, but I cannot do the same for you. It is for Him to do, not me. My job is to testify to what God has assigned me. This I have done, and am doing.
No, I have given you the scriptures, and this I have done even beyond the examples of quoted scriptures in the scriptures. That is the Way of things. You even quoted them back to me...which leaves you no excuse, except that the Holy Spirit has not confirmed it in you. Nonetheless, it is written, and the finishing acts are His.

OK then. I'll stick with what I read, and you can stick with what you know.

Much love!
mark

 

[ScottA]

Why not just say it? Extra-Biblical.

Added to what is Written in the Word.

Revelation not given in the Apostolic times of Scripture writing, but given now, to be given greater weight that the Words of the Book Itself.

Isn't that what you mean? Why do you hold back from acknowledging it?

Am I an agent of Satan?

Boy! I haven't been asked that in a long time! Why? Are you?

I can never understand why people won't just commit themselves to what they believe. I do. I believe the Bible is the Ultimate Authorative Revelation from God to Mankind. Jesus showed the Father to us, and we have a written record. We have the Law and the Prophets and the other Writings.

No man can say anything that changes what it says. No man has the right to misappropriate a single word, a single letter. No man has the right or authority to add to or take away from what is written.

Anything you say that is not written in Scripture will be less than Scripture for me. I can read the Book and it will tell me what God want's me to know. The apostles and prophets and evangelists and pastor/teachers whom Jesus gave to the church will never differ from the Word of God.

Ok. That's my view. I can be plain, I can be bold, I can be clear.

Do you shy away from saying that there is a man who if he tells us that such and such verse means the opposite of what the words say . . . that he is right. Do you believe that?

Much love!
Mark

Listen up. Yes, this is very much a "Satan get behind me" moment. Your line is very much like Satan's comments in the garden. You ask a question, then supply only part of what is written to challenge the whole truth, while demanding worldly proof. That is what the atheist do.

So, yes, since a tree is known by its fruit, you are doing as Peter (though greatly beloved) did also: making assumptions about spiritual truth, but thinking as men think.

To be perfectly clear, the spiritual definition of "extra-biblical", is: lacking the Spirit. God is spirit. Jesus' words are spirit. But all language (including the scriptures) have been confounded by God, and therefore must be spiritually discerned. Which makes the scripture-alone stance, anti-Christ.

But you are right that no one can add to, take away, or change the scriptures. However, the correct precedence for receiving all truth and that which the apostles could not bear during their times...is written. The precedence, which came after Jesus scolded Israel for holding to the past and not allowing the prophets (by killing them), was given by Christ who told us the way, which is the "fulfillment" of what is written. But here you are making a case against the fulfillment of what is written of our times, and against those to whom he gave gifts for that very purpose. Which...again...is anti-Christ. And you making an ultimatum against such...well, that is just foolish.

Although faith and belief are greatly esteemed by God, that is not my gift. What I have, was not given to me to believe, but to know...which is by the Holy Spirit, a fulfillment of the scriptures.

Believe what and who you will, but the scriptures are only part, for they are spirit, and much is unseen.

 

[marks]

@ScottA

To be clear, the case I am making is that if the teaching is contained within the Bible, then it is demonstrably the Word of God. If it is not, then it is not.

Many come and claim this and that revelation. Let the prophet speak, and let the hearers judge. But judge by what? There were the Bereans, who searched what? The Written Word of God.

I'm not doing what Satan did, which was to challenge the authority of God's word. I am upholding the authority of God's Word.

And no, the Scripture alone stance is not "anti-Christ" as you claim. Wow! I just realized! I've now advanced to "anti-christ". Hm.

Yes, the Spirit gives us understanding of the Word. But having understood the Word does not mean the Word is changed. It says the same thing it always said, now we just understand it. But if we cannot point to the Word and say, Here! This is where it says that. Then it is just us saying that.

And which of us will claim authority over the Scriptures?

Much love!
Mark

 

[Episkopos]

@ScottA

To be clear, the case I am making is that if the teaching is contained within the Bible, then it is demonstrably the Word of God. If it is not, then it is not.

Many come and claim this and that revelation. Let the prophet speak, and let the hearers judge. But judge by what? There were the Bereans, who searched what? The Written Word of God.

I'm not doing what Satan did, which was to challenge the authority of God's word. I am upholding the authority of God's Word.

And no, the Scripture alone stance is not "anti-Christ" as you claim. Wow! I just realized! I've now advanced to "anti-christ". Hm.

Yes, the Spirit gives us understanding of the Word. But having understood the Word does not mean the Word is changed. It says the same thing it always said, now we just understand it. But if we cannot point to the Word and say, Here! This is where it says that. Then it is just us saying that.

And which of us will claim authority over the Scriptures?

Much love!
Mark

Just remember that the Bereans were noble...but unbelievers. A person who always looks to chapter and verse is a babe in Christ at the most. The bible points us to Christ...who IS the word. But the bible serves as training wheels until one has that spiritual connection. After that the Spirit AND the word are BOTH indicators of what God is saying. The bible says a lot of things. The devil uses the bible too.

 

[ScottA]

@ScottA

To be clear, the case I am making is that if the teaching is contained within the Bible, then it is demonstrably the Word of God. If it is not, then it is not.

Many come and claim this and that revelation. Let the prophet speak, and let the hearers judge. But judge by what? There were the Bereans, who searched what? The Written Word of God.

I'm not doing what Satan did, which was to challenge the authority of God's word. I am upholding the authority of God's Word.

And no, the Scripture alone stance is not "anti-Christ" as you claim. Wow! I just realized! I've now advanced to "anti-christ". Hm.

Yes, the Spirit gives us understanding of the Word. But having understood the Word does not mean the Word is changed. It says the same thing it always said, now we just understand it. But if we cannot point to the Word and say, Here! This is where it says that. Then it is just us saying that.

And which of us will claim authority over the Scriptures?

Much love!
Mark

You don't know what you are saying. You are categorically dismissing the demonstrated fulfillment of the word of God by revelation if it is not understood. You may as well say, "Tongues" is biblical, but translations are not." Actually...that is exactly what you are saying. So, yes, you have been clear...just wrong.

To the contrary, what I am saying is that by God's own doing the scriptures are confounded and must be discerned spiritually, i.e., tongues that must be translated...by the means of revelation and Christ-given gifts of knowledge and prophecy.

And to limit God's word to what is written...is indeed anti-Christ, for it is anti-Spirit, whom Christ has sent. His words are spirit. How many times will you deny it - do you not know this is the very thing he said was unforgivable?

The word is not changed... I said that. It is "fulfilled" by revelation. And revelations not believed or understood, is not "just saying."

 

[marks]

Just remember that the Bereans were noble...but unbelievers. A person who always looks to chapter and verse is a babe in Christ at the most. The bible points us to Christ...who IS the word. But the bible serves as training wheels until one has that spiritual connection. After that the Spirit AND the word are BOTH indicators of what God is saying. The bible says a lot of things. The devil uses the bible too.

The Bible is training wheels? Wow! We sure have different perceptions of Scripture!

 

[marks]

Just remember that the Bereans were noble...but unbelievers.

Unbelievers? Chapter and Verse, please! Weren't they "examining the Scriptures" to confirm Paul's teaching? It sounds to me that they were believers. Not yet born again, but still looking to the Bible for truth.

Not just accepting what Paul - The Apostle to the Gentiles - told them, but seeing if these things were in the Bible. This was called by God "noble".

A person who always looks to chapter and verse is a babe in Christ at the most.

That's me! A babe! That's the best thing I've been called all day. And I mean that. I'm not being sarcastic at the moment.

Unless ye become as little children . . .

Much love!
mark

 

[marks]

You don't know what you are saying. You are categorically dismissing the demonstrated fulfillment of the word of God by revelation if it is not understood. You may as well say, "Tongues" is biblical, but translations are not." Actually...that is exactly what you are saying. So, yes, you have been clear...just wrong.

Are you saying translations are divinely inspired?

 

[CoreIssue]

Just remember that the Bereans were noble...but unbelievers. A person who always looks to chapter and verse is a babe in Christ at the most. The bible points us to Christ...who IS the word. But the bible serves as training wheels until one has that spiritual connection. After that the Spirit AND the word are BOTH indicators of what God is saying. The bible says a lot of things. The devil uses the bible too.

And the swami speaks again.

The Bible holds the Bereans in high regard. Bible only Saints.

They were not babes in Christ.

You are a Gnostic.

 

[ScottA]

Are you saying translations are divinely inspired?

Well...spiritual discerned is the proper term. But, Yes, that's the idea.

 

[ScottA]

You are a Gnostic.

"Spiritual discernment" is not esoteric mystical knowledge or nonsense. It is the fulfillment of "all truth" promised by Christ for our time. It is "true", biblical "worship."

Those who speak against it, speak against Christ, by the spirit of anti-Christ.

 

[marks]

Well...spiritual discerned is the proper term. But, Yes, that's the idea.

Including the Cotton Patch Version?

 

[marks]

"Spiritual discernment" is not esoteric mystical knowledge or nonsense. It is the fulfillment of "all truth" promised by Christ for our time. It is "true", biblical "worship."

Those who speak against it, speak against Christ, by the spirit of anti-Christ.

It's not speaking against Christ, we maintain His Words have supremacy over your words, that's all.

Much love!
Mark

 

[ScottA]

It's not speaking against Christ, we maintain His Words have supremacy over your words, that's all.

Much love!
Mark

"He who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.”

You have made a god of confounded words on parchment. But Christ's words are not on parchment, nor confounded, but are spirit...and you will not hear them. Christ spoke against your kind, now you speak against Him.

 

[marks]

"He who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.”

You have made a god of confounded words on parchment. But Christ's words are not on parchment, nor confounded, but are spirit...and you will not hear them. Christ spoke against your kind, now you speak against Him.

No, I'm not rejecting Jesus. My most treasured possession in the world, above all others, is His Word. Let's settle that right now.

The Bible is in fact a written book, ink on paper. That's the way it is. the Holy Spirit gives understanding to Those Words. And they all mean what they say.

My God is not the Book. My God is the One Whom the Book presents. And if you want to find God outside of the Bible, go for it, but I will find God through the Bible.

Why such a strong aversion towards the revelation God gave us? The one we can prove, that is?

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

Circles!

That's enough for me. Thank you for the conversation!

Much love!
Mark

 

[ScottA]

No, I'm not rejecting Jesus. My most treasured possession in the world, above all others, is His Word. Let's settle that right now.

The Bible is in fact a written book, ink on paper. That's the way it is. the Holy Spirit gives understanding to Those Words. And they all mean what they say.

My God is not the Book. My God is the One Whom the Book presents. And if you want to find God outside of the Bible, go for it, but I will find God through the Bible.

Why such a strong aversion towards the revelation God gave us? The one we can prove, that is?

Much love!
Mark

Are Christ's words spiritual...or not?

We are 19 pages in, and you have not only fought the very idea, you have denied it, and cannot come to agree with it, that is, you have not agreed with Him.

Circles!

That's enough for me. Thank you for the conversation!

Much love!
Mark

Go figure. You have been speaking of and expressing your dedication to another christ for days.

 

[CoreIssue]

"Spiritual discernment" is not esoteric mystical knowledge or nonsense. It is the fulfillment of "all truth" promised by Christ for our time. It is "true", biblical "worship."

Those who speak against it, speak against Christ, by the spirit of anti-Christ.

I know what spiritual discernment is.

Apparently you do not.