The Proof of Salvation

[Episkopos]

The normal human way takes 2 possible shortcuts that deviate from the truth. One is to become religious and a harsh judge..believing that non-Christians are simply evil and incapable of any love (thus justifying their own religious dogmatism that they try passing for love). The other error is to love as humans do...as any humanist would. Then, anything goes.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

@Episkopos , FANTASTIC thread all around! Thank you for it.

 

[amadeus]

The normal human way takes 2 possible shortcuts that deviate from the truth. One is to become religious and a harsh judge..believing that non-Christians are simply evil and incapable of any love (thus justifying their own religious dogmatism that they try passing for love). The other error is to love as humans do...as any humanist would. Then, anything goes.

Perhaps there is a third way people tread? They may be "saved" with a great experience with God but come to a comfortable place of apparent rest and even though God gave the tools/talents to work, they along with the man with one talent choose to bury/not use it. They have climbed half way up a steep talus slope and are trying to rest on their laurels. On the talus slope [with a surface of nothing but small loose stones or rocks] this is impossible on the incline. To stand still on the slope is to slide backward. To even stay in the same place on the slope a person must continue to walk. To actually gain ground, to move upward, the person must walk even harder and/or faster.

When we are "saved" and even saved again from those sins which seemingly so easily beset us, we cannot stop even if it initially actually was very good place. It is like the water in a puddle right after the rain. Initially it may be a bit muddy but still quite drinkable. If it remains there for several days exposed to the elements with no regularly refreshing streams of clean water it will become like the Dead Sea, the lowest of places with no fish able to live in it... It will stagnate. It will die as a person's arm dies when the flow of cleansing nourishing blood is cut off too long by a tourniquet.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I think this is sloth (in spirit), Amadeus. Or as the old saints used to call it -Acedia.

 

[Enoch111]

The only proof of salvation (that can't be duplicated by the outer man) is that we love.

Since only God knows who is and who is not saved, no one needs to produce any *proof of salvation*.

 

[CoreIssue]

The normal human way takes 2 possible shortcuts that deviate from the truth. One is to become religious and a harsh judge..believing that non-Christians are simply evil and incapable of any love (thus justifying their own religious dogmatism that they try passing for love). The other error is to love as humans do...as any humanist would. Then, anything goes.

Enoch111 is correct. Only god knows the heart and the heart is deceptive above all else.

We can know some of those who are not saved, but even they can repent at the last second.

 

[Episkopos]

Since only God knows who is and who is not saved, no one needs to produce any *proof of salvation*.

But the world also will know...

John 13:35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

 

[CoreIssue]

The only proof of salvation (that can't be duplicated by the outer man) is that we love. We are saved BY love in order TO love. Too simple? This is the simplicity which is in Christ.

How will people know that our gatherings are of the people of God? By the love that warms the gathering. You will know them by their love! What is the fruit of the Spirit? Love.

Just any kind of love? No. Human love is selfish. But God's love is selfless.

Faith takes us to God...and the God sends us back into this world equipped with His love.

Even Satan can appear as an angel of light. The bible tells us the foulest of people give good things to the children and love them. Most murderous people in history loved someone.

The bible says judge by works, not professing love.

 

[CoreIssue]

But the world also will know...

John 11:35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

But how is that love defined? Is it true or a lie?

And you got a problem with the verse.

35 Jesus wept.

You mean JOHN 13:35

 

[Episkopos]

We see the irony in that so many people declare themselves as being saved based on either a dogmatic religious acceptance of Jesus as a "personal" saviour.....thus self-justifying....or else based on an encounter with God at some time in the past.

But the real proof is that we walk as Jesus walked.

I used to think....a long time ago...that this meant only those who walked in spiritual power (thus availing themselves of the resurrection life of Christ) were to be seen as exhibiting salvation. While that is certainly true (without the exclusivity of this power from above) the simple obedience to Christ also enters into the region of faithfulness to Christ.

Unless one is religiously inoculated from seeing straight...people see those who love and those who don't. We can only love others in a selfless way by grace. We pass on the grace given to us. Those who love this way are from God. Those who don't love don't know God. (even if they have had an encounter with Him)

it's one thing to have an acquaintance with God....and quite another to actually KNOW the Lord.

 

[Episkopos]

But how is that love defined? Is it true or a lie?

And you got a problem with the verse.

35 Jesus wept.

You mean JOHN 13:35

Yes....my finger stayed too long on the key...thanks.

People know the love that is selfless. It is not something one encounters very often. That's how people know there is something different about a person. That love is our best witness and ambassadorship of God who is Love.

 

[marks]

But the world also will know...

John 13:35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

Yes indeed, everyone will know! If we love like Jesus loved, we'll get the same response Jesus got, that's my thinking. Some would love us in return, others will hate and try to kill us.

But not that only . . .

1 John 3:14 "We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren."

continuing . . .

18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Loving others makes us effective and fruitful. We know we are reborn. The all men know that we are from Jesus. And we will have confidence with God.

And besides . . . it's a really fun way to live!

Much love!
Mark

 

[Episkopos]

1 John 3:14 "We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren."

Worth re-posting. Thanks to you Mark!

 

[CoreIssue]

Yes....my finger stayed too long on the key...thanks.

People know the love that is selfless. It is not something one encounters very often. That's how people know there is something different about a person. That love is our best witness and ambassadorship of God who is Love.

How does know it is selfless and not a lie?

God is Just. He loves everyone but that won't stop him from putting people in the lake of fire for eternity.

 

[Episkopos]

How does know it is selfless and not a lie?

God is Just. He loves everyone but that won't stop him from putting people in the lake of fire for eternity.

A person who knows God knows what kind of love God is. Even people who have never encountered God know that something is different about a person who loves.

God will destroy they who both refuse to love and hurt those who do.

 

[Episkopos]

The condemnation of the religious posers in Jesus' day was that they had not the love of the Father in them.

John 5:42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

Religion has no capacity for love. It argues over beliefs. It justifies itself by a set of beliefs. But this is the way of men...not God. The way of God involves faith. Now, faith can devolve into a dogmatic belief...but a belief never becomes faith. Once the salt has lost it's saltiness there is no place for it but to be thrown away.

 

[CoreIssue]

@Episkopos , FANTASTIC thread all around! Thank you for it.

1 Timothy 1:5
5 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

Mormonism could does not have the truth so this verse does not apply to them.

 

[CoreIssue]

A person who knows God knows what kind of love God is. Even people who have never encountered God know that something is different about a person who loves.

God will destroy they who refuse to love and hurt those who do.

And yet you liked the post comments by a mormon complementing you. Isn't such support from you harmful to those who love the true God?

I agree with your comment. But I also will state they see problems with the claims of cults about loving and knowing God.

 

[Episkopos]

1 Timothy 1:5
5 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

Mormonism could does not have the truth so this verse does not apply to them.

All isms come from men. One ism will justify itself over another. But this is not the way of love. We don't judge people for errors in their beliefs....but if they love or not. God will NOT judge us on the accuracy of our beliefs or opinions.

That is not to say that there is not truth. But even those who hold the truth...if they do so without love then they are holding it in unrighteousness. God prefers someone who loves and has his doctrine wrong than the other way around.

Did Jesus love only those who had correct doctrine?

Notice how powerful is the seduction of a false religion that is empty....having no love for others.

 

[Episkopos]

And yet you liked the post comments by a mormon complementing you. Isn't such support from you harmful to those who love the true God?

I agree with your comment. But I also will state they see problems with the claims of cults about loving and knowing God.

The problem with the world is not that we love people too much....but that we love so little. I am not here to judge a person by their opinions. People who put labels on others and judge them have failed the test of love.

When Jesus accepted the prostitute...was He condoning her sins? Or was He loving her because HE IS love?