The Prophetic Timeline in Scriptures:

[marks]

Christ centred or person centred with Christ as an after thought, i.e. Just the importance of the relationship statement.

Shalom

I think I understand.

You're saying something like, we need to understand the fulness of our lives in Christ, or the smallness of our insincere lives in christ, something like that?

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

Hi Scott,

While I think that God does want us to know His program, and therefore that there will be timeline, though we may not understand it well,

Your point is very sound that prophecy is to testify of Jesus. And God's program is indeed to rescue us from these worldly lives of the flesh. So, both?

I don't recall if you've mentioned this before or not . . . I see us as having a physical resurrection, and that we will live in a new heaven and earth, that is, we will stand in material bodies on a material earth, though we will live in and experience the heavenly realm as well, as it were the veil no longer dividing the two. Is this your understanding?

Much love!

Okay, I don't want to hijack the thread, so keeping within that "timeline" topic...No, I don't understand it that way.

By, yes, my point is to say there is both in the scriptures. But that both are mixed together and in need of "rightly dividing' what pertains to the flesh and this world from what pertains to God and the kingdom, if we are to "seek" Him according to Christ. Therefore, I do not think it is right to only look at a timeline of events of the things that pertain to this world, without stating it as the lesser part.

As for the idea of a "physical resurrection", what would be the point of that? Is God not "spirit" and "perfect", and are we not to "be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect?" No, I would suggest that is the thinking of men who cannot imagine anything greater than a super-powered version of the flesh. I would recommend looking beyond the flesh.

 

[marks]

Okay, I don't want to hijack the thread, so keeping within that "timeline" topic...No, I don't understand it that way.

By, yes, my point is to say there is both in the scriptures. But that both are mixed together and in need of "rightly dividing' what pertains to the flesh and this world from what pertains to God and the kingdom, if we are to "seek" Him according to Christ. Therefore, I do not think it is right to only look at a timeline of events of the things that pertain to this world, without stating it as the lesser part.

OK, I think I understand you better. We are material, moving toward spiritual, and while there are prophetic passages, it's like trying to read a schematic, without knowing how to switch on and tune in the radio which the schematic shows.

Knowing the symbols in the schematic is meaningless if one knows nothing about hearing music over the airwaves.

Something like that?

As for the idea of a "physical resurrection", what would be the point of that? Is God not "spirit" and "perfect", and are we not to "be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect?" No, I would suggest that is the thinking of men who cannot imagine anything greater than a super-powered version of the flesh. I would recommend looking beyond the flesh.

Perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect. Isn't this about loving those who don't love us? God sends rain on the just and the unjust, therefore, be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect, that is, be complete in who you love, not selective.

Do you believe that Jesus rose physically, materially, out of the tomb?

I don't want to hijack either, maybe a new thread?

Much love!

 

[Jay Ross]

I think I understand.

You're saying something like, we need to understand the fulness of our lives in Christ, or the smallness of our insincere lives in christ, something like that?

Much love!

Something like that but with fewer words. Like: - "We need to be mindful of who we are in Christ/christ."

 

[ScottA]

OK, I think I understand you better. We are material, moving toward spiritual, and while there are prophetic passages, it's like trying to read a schematic, without knowing how to switch on and tune in the radio which the schematic shows.

Knowing the symbols in the schematic is meaningless if one knows nothing about hearing music over the airwaves.

Something like that?

Yes...or worms all talking about how words of butterflies apply to worms, rather than things to come. Etc.

Perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect. Isn't this about loving those who don't love us? God sends rain on the just and the unjust, therefore, be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect, that is, be complete in who you love, not selective.

This would be a good example of applying a godly/kingdom word to life in the world...which is good. But it is more important to see that the godly principle is based in something greater. So, those things of application in the world are good, but are like practicing the law, which does not save, compared to the law written on our hearts: The one is of the world, and the other of the kingdom; the one physical, the other spiritual.

Do you believe that Jesus rose physically, materially, out of the tomb?

I don't want to hijack either, maybe a new thread?

This is applicable. No harm.

Jesus did indeed rise physically in the flesh. But that is only part of the matter.

Jesus' resurrection was a manifestation (in the world) of his power over death and of eternal life. But he did not commit his flesh to the Father, only his spirit. Which can be referred to as his resurrection also, but is better understood as his ascension, for it speaks only of the spirit (as "God is spirit"). So then regarding the resurrection, there is the need to "rightly divide" what is of the flesh, from what is of the spirit...which we are told to do, even though many/most do no do it. This then is in perfect reconciliation with the fact that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven", "the flesh profits nothing", and "no flesh should glory in His presence."

 

[marks]

Yes...or worms all talking about how words of butterflies apply to worms, rather than things to come. Etc.

This would be a good example of applying a godly/kingdom word to life in the world...which is good. But it is more important to see that the godly principle is based in something greater. So, those things of application in the world are good, but are like practicing the law, which does not save, compared to the law written on our hearts: The one is of the world, and the other of the kingdom; the one physical, the other spiritual.

This is applicable. No harm.

Jesus did indeed rise physically in the flesh. But that is only part of the matter.

Jesus' resurrection was a manifestation (in the world) of his power over death and of eternal life. But he did not commit his flesh to the Father, only his spirit. Which can be referred to as his resurrection also, but is better understood as his ascension, for it speaks only of the spirit (as "God is spirit"). So then regarding the resurrection, there is the need to "rightly divide" what is of the flesh, from what is of the spirit...which we are told to do, even though many/most do no do it. This then is in perfect reconciliation with the fact that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven", "the flesh profits nothing", and "no flesh should glory in His presence."

So then did Jesus ascend into heaven in a material body?

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

So then did Jesus ascend into heaven in a material body?

Much love!

No...He did not commit his flesh to the Father, only his spirit.

The common misunderstanding here is how people perceive what is meant by His returning in "like manner." If one considers that Jesus was seen ascending in the flesh, it is easy to assume that he would return in the flesh. But that is not what happened.

What happened is He went to the Father, whom is spirit. Therefore, that is the "like manner" in which He will return. But "the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit."

"Spirit and truth."

 

[marks]

No...He did not commit his flesh to the Father, only his spirit.

The common misunderstanding here is how people perceive what is meant by His returning in "like manner." If one considers that Jesus was seen ascending in the flesh, it is easy to assume that he would return in the flesh. But that is not what happened.

What happened is He went to the Father, whom is spirit. Therefore, that is the "like manner" in which He will return. But "the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit."

"Spirit and truth."

OK, riddle me this . . . IF Jesus rose from the tomb in a material body, but did not materially ascend into heaven . . . what happened to His body?

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

OK, riddle me this . . . IF Jesus rose from the tomb in a material body, but did not materially ascend into heaven . . . what happened to His body?

Much love!

God spoke the entire physical world into existence. Do you not suppose He can bring His Son home in "like manner" by the same word?

Nonetheless, the scriptures say that the dust returns to the earth, which passes away with fervent heat. But the body of Christ is His Church until the end.

 

[Enoch111]

Nonetheless, the scriptures say that the dust returns to the earth, which passes away with fervent heat. But the body of Christ is His Church until the end.

And the saints within the body of Christ will receive their glorious immortal bodies at the Resurrection/Rapture. So that *dust* will be transformed and will return to the souls and spirits of the saints.

 

[ScottA]

And the saints within the body of Christ will receive their glorious immortal bodies at the Resurrection/Rapture. So that *dust* will be transformed and will return to the souls and spirits of the saints.

No, scripture does not say that at all. Just the opposite. I quoted it.

 

[marks]

God spoke the entire physical world into existence. Do you not suppose He can bring His Son home in "like manner" by the same word?

Nonetheless, the scriptures say that the dust returns to the earth, which passes away with fervent heat. But the body of Christ is His Church until the end.

Hi Scott,

Certainly God Who created all has power to do all, including rise up from the ground in front of His disciples, to be hid from them in a cloud, and then to move into the heavenly realm, there to be the bodily resurrected incarnate Son of God.

Curious, what is your thought on Job's words?

19:23-27 "Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed in a book! That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock for ever! For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me."

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

Hi Scott,

Certainly God Who created all has power to do all, including rise up from the ground in front of His disciples, to be hid from them in a cloud, and then to move into the heavenly realm, there to be the bodily resurrected incarnate Son of God.

Curious, what is your thought on Job's words?

19:23-27 "Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed in a book! That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock for ever! For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me."

Much love!

This passage does not make void the others that I have quoted.

If you will do a word study of it, you will see that the word "destroy" is better translated as "compass" or "encompass." Job more likely was saying that after the plagues he was presently suffering were through, after they had done their worst, he would then live to see God replenish him, that he would recover in his flesh...and he did.

 

[marks]

This passage does not make void the others that I have quoted.

If you will do a word study of it, you will see that the word "destroy" is better translated as "compass" or "encompass." Job more likely was saying that after the plagues he was presently suffering were through, after they had done their worst, he would then live to see God replenish him, that he would recover in his flesh, and he did.

Ok, I understand.

I see this as speaking Job's conviction that he would stand on the earth in a material body, "in the latter days", when God Himself will also stand upon the earth.

I think Job anticipated being on the earth with Jesus in his resurrection. Not that I'm saying Job specifically knew Jesus, as this is the Incarnate Man born from Mary, but the Angel of the Lord, Messenger of YHWH, may have been known or known of by Job, in any case, his Redeemer.

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

Ok, I understand.

I see this as speaking Job's conviction that he would stand on the earth in a material body, "in the latter days", when God Himself will also stand upon the earth.

I think Job anticipated being on the earth with Jesus in his resurrection. Not that I'm saying Job specifically knew Jesus, as this is the Incarnate Man born from Mary, but the Angel of the Lord, Messenger of YHWH, may have been known or known of by Job, in any case, his Redeemer.

Much love!

Yes, all of that works, as Jesus did come in the flesh to walk the earth and was raised up the last day.

It also reconciles with the other verses I quoted.

 

[marks]

Yes, all of that works, as Jesus did come in the flesh to walk the earth and was raised up the last day.

It also reconciles with the other verses I quoted.

OK, I think I understand your POV, interesting to think about!

Much love!