The Rapture and the Tribulation - Short
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rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Here i will save you some time.
QUOTE by t7;
"Darby bad Darby bad Darby bad Darby bad everybody listening to Darby! people going crazy listening to Darby! I can't take that Darby stuff ringing in my head! Darby was not rightDarby bad Darby bad Darby bad Darby bad everybody listening to Darby! people going crazy listening to Darby! I can't take that Darby stuff ringing in my head! Darby was not right " Darby bad Dar Darby bad Darby bad Darby bad Darby bad everybody listening to Darby! people going crazy listening to Darby! I can't take that Darby stuff ringing in my head! Darby was not righty bad Darby bad Darby bad everybody listening to Darby! people going crazy listening to Darby! I can't take that Darby stuff ringing in my head! Darby was not right Darby bad Darby bad Darby bad Darby bad everybody listening to Darby! people going crazy listening to Darby! I can't take that Darby stuff ringing in my head! Darby was not right Darby bad Darby bad Darby bad Darby bad everybody listening to Darby! people going crazy listening to Darby! I can't take that Darby stuff ringing in my head! Darby was not right"
Just copy and paste.
Post it on all your answers.
Huge time saver
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You tried to counter the claim about Darby by quoting ECFs as supposedly talking about their belief in a pre-trib rapture when nothing they said actually indicated as such. You completely misinterpreted their words just like you do scripture. The reality is that there is no credible evidence to show that anyone believed in a pre-trib rapture before Darby started teaching it.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Some Amills believe there is an individual Antichrist. This shows that you don't even understand Amill because you think the Amill doctrine somehow doesn't allow for an individual Antichrist. Most Amills do not believe that, but there's nothing about the doctrine in and of itself which says someone can't believe that. The person you replied to is an Amill who believes there will be an individual Antichrist, so you made yet another strawman argument.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
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What do Catholics believe about the Rapture?
We do not want you to be unaware, brothers, about those who have fallen asleep, so that you may not grieve like the rest, who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose, so too will God, through Jesus, bring with him those who have fallen asleep.
Indeed, we tell you this, on the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will surely not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself, with a word of command, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Thus, we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore, console one another with these words. (1 Thes 4:13-18)
When a discussion turns to the end times, Christians can sometimes differ about what they think will transpire before the second coming of Christ. For example, there are some who take 1 Thessalonians 4:17 (in bold at left) to mean the righteous will be taken up to heaven in the days leading up to the period of great tribulation that will precede the second coming of Christ. In this view, only the sinful will be left behind to suffer during this period of trial. This taking up of the righteous to heaven before the great tribulation has been called the Rapture and has been popularized by books, TV programs and movies, most notably the “Left Behind” series.The problem with this view
From the Catholic perspective, the above interpretation of 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is simply not supported by Scripture. In Mark 13:24-27, Matthew 24:26-31 and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12, the second coming of Christ is clearly placed after the tribulation. Further, St. Paul makes it clear that the resurrection of the dead happens only at Christ’s second coming, which will be announced by an archangel’s cry and a trumpet blast. There is not one place in the New Testament where a “secret” coming of Christ is mentioned whereby the righteous are spared the time of tribulation.How Ironic that Catholics mirror postribulation rapture adherents and amils
Davy
Well-Known Member
That of course is a LIE, because it is so EASY... to read the simplicity of the Bible Scripture to know Christ said He comes to gather His saints AFTER... the tribulation...
Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV
That same timing for Christ's coming AFTER the tribulation is written in Mark 13:24-27 also.
So really, those on man's false pre-trib rapture theory have NO EXCUSE. They are not listening to Lord Jesus Christ in His Word on this matter, but instead are listening to men and believing on them.
And pre-tribbers are actually the ones trying... to fabricate Bible Scripture that does not exist! just to try and support their false pre-trib rapture theory from corrupt men like John Nelson Darby who preached the idea first in a Christian Church in 1830's Great Britain.
Davy
Well-Known Member
That is yet another... one of your Biblically illiterate statements.
The Christian Church held to a Post-tribulational coming of Christ for over 1,800 years. Only when those like Edward Irving and John Darby and the Plymouth Brethren started preaching the false pre-trib theory did that begin to change. In the Americas after the 1830s it was Cyrus Scofield with his personal study Bible that promoted it.
And that 1,800 years of earlier Church history INCLUDED later Protestant Churches too that held to the Post-tribulational coming of Christ Jesus. So you cannot try... and use Catholicism as an excuse.
The Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 of Jesus' Own Words are enough to prove man's pre-trib rapture theory to be false. There is nothing that can change that Biblical fact. Either one heeds what Jesus said there, or they do not and follow something else instead. Those have no excuse.
And even still to this day, the MAJORITY of Christian denominations still hold to a Post-tribulational coming of Christ Jesus. Even the early Baptists in the American colonies used to hold to a Post-tribulational coming of Christ! The pre-trib rapture cannot be found having been taught in a Church prior to the 1830's, even as some pre-trib scholars have admitted.
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