The Rapture is going to take us Home

[veteran]

Veteran the desecration of the temple in Dan 8 is that committed by Antiochus, can we agree on this?

No, I cannot agree with that. And the reason is simple. Antiochus Epiphanes setup his idol abomination in 165-170 B.C. in Jerusalem, yet Christ Jesus warned of a future "abomination of desolation" per the Book of Daniel within Matthew 24 and Mark 13, which was given how many years after Antiochus had already been dead?

I guess you don’t buy my argument that YHWH has put aside an earthly temple in His name, but Yeshua is now our high priest setting at the right hand of the Father....

Whoever said the temple in Jerusalem the orthodox unbelieving Jews want to build today has anything to do with The Father and the New Covenant through the Blood of His Son Christ Jesus? I didn't. I think you well know just what... their plans to build another temple is about. It's about their refusal to accept The Saviour Jesus Christ and still keep the Old Covenant which God did away with. Evidently, some got to learn the hard way, and thus the false messiah is especially prepared for them.

Regarding the fact that Orthodox Judaism will be able to believe in a false messiah is a tragedy because the messiah that they expect will be an earthly person, not a Divine Son of God. All they expect is someone from the line of David who will again lead them to greatness

The faithful orthodox Jewish believers on The Father aren't the movers and shakers in this coming event. It's the unfaithful unbelieving "crept in unawares" hiding among them that will get the faithful to bow to the coming false messiah in place of The True Messiah. Same thing among many Christian brethren; it's the wolves in sheep's clothing that will lead many of them to bow to that coming false messiah also. That's what the apostasia Paul spoke of is about, the "strong delusion". So that false one is not... going to just be some flesh prophet born among the Jewish peoples. It's going to be difficult for the majority to even understand who that false messiah is going to be, until Christ reveals him for who he is at His coming to destroy him.

I see and appreciate where you brothers are coming from because the position you hold is one that I myself understood but no longer. It could be you are correct in your understanding, I don’t think so but time will tell. One thing I do know is that we will all be surprised in the finial outcome because none of us can see the complete truth. I modify my position as I learn and fully expect that what I think today will reshape itself as I grow.

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob

One other point for consideration; how can something be made desolate which has already be declared desolate until the return of Yeshua (Mat 23:38)?

Easy; what is the 1st Commandment from God's Ten Commandments? Where did God chose to dwell forever? If you recall the answer to those two things, then it should be simple to understand that He does not like anyone trying to steal His Glory, nor to sit in His Place and be worshipped in His Place.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

No, I cannot agree with that. And the reason is simple. Antiochus Epiphanes setup his idol abomination in 165-170 B.C. in Jerusalem, yet Christ Jesus warned of a future "abomination of desolation" per the Book of Daniel within Matthew 24 and Mark 13, which was given how many years after Antiochus had already been dead?

The book of Daniel mentions abomination of desolation multiple times.

 

[veteran]

The book of Daniel mentions abomination of desolation multiple times.

Yeah, and I covered it back in my post #98.

 

[Saint]

Something to think about….

Daniel7:24
And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Rev.17:12
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

If the Scarlet Beast of Rev. 17:12 is indeed the antichrist then “How can the (un)empowered and (un)kinged 10 perspective kings be in the ‘one hour’ presence of the Beast (AC) to ‘receive’ their Kingdoms if the Beast (Little Horn) is NOT even to rise nor exist until AFTER the crowning of the 10 Kings?” (Dan. 7:24)

Likewise, “If the Beast antichrist does NOT even exist until AFTER the crowing of the 10 Kings then how could he sign an alleged Seven (7) years ‘Peace Covenant’ as the ‘Prince’ of Dan. 9:27 with the Jews for 3[sup]1/2 [/sup]years before he ever comes into existence?” The Scarlet Beast of Rev. 13 is among other things the King of the 8[sup]th[/sup] Head of the seven headed Beast (7[sup]th[/sup] and final Kingdom) which clearly per Rev. 13:5, NEVER comes into existence until the last 3[sup]1/2 [/sup]years of the Great Tribulation.

Rev.17:11
And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

In Yeshus Messiah,

Bob

 

[veteran]

Something to think about….

Daniel7:24
And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Rev.17:12
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

If the Scarlet Beast of Rev. 17:12 is indeed the antichrist then “How can the (un)empowered and (un)kinged 10 perspective kings be in the ‘one hour’ presence of the Beast (AC) to ‘receive’ their Kingdoms if the Beast (Little Horn) is NOT even to rise nor exist until AFTER the crowning of the 10 Kings?” (Dan. 7:24)

The specific "beast" of Rev.17:12 is not the "woman" (city per Rev.17:18) with the scarlet clothing.

The "beast" of Rev.17:12 is the "another beast" of Rev.13:11-17, as there are TWO separate beasts outlined in the Rev.13 chapter.

Here's the "woman" of Rev.17-18, arrayed in purple and scarlet... it's a certain city per the last Rev.17 verse.

Rev 17:4-5
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
(KJV)

Rev 18:7-10
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, "I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow."
8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God Who judgeth her.
9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, "Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come."
(KJV)

The "one hour" is symbolic for the tribulation timing. Rev.17:12-13 is a prophetic update to Dan.7:24-25. The 10 kings reign 'with' the second beast (a king, the Antichrist). The idea of 'subdue' per Daniel isn't about destruction of 3 kings; it's about a change in power structure by the beast king (little horn).

Likewise, “If the Beast antichrist does NOT even exist until AFTER the crowing of the 10 Kings then how could he sign an alleged Seven (7) years ‘Peace Covenant’ as the ‘Prince’ of Dan. 9:27 with the Jews for 3[sup]1/2 [/sup]years before he ever comes into existence?” The Scarlet Beast of Rev. 13 is among other things the King of the 8[sup]th[/sup] Head of the seven headed Beast (7[sup]th[/sup] and final Kingdom) which clearly per Rev. 13:5, NEVER comes into existence until the last 3[sup]1/2 [/sup]years of the Great Tribulation.

The Rev.17:12-13 Scripture isn't specific that the 10 kings are crowned prior to the appearance of the beast king (little horn).

The "another beast" of Rev.13:11 isn't described as a "Scarlet Beast". The 1st beast of Rev.13:1-2 is about a beast kingdom; the 2nd beast of Rev.13:11 is about a beast ENTITY (beast king of Rev.17:8, 10, 11), and the "woman" is carried... by the 1st beast...

Rev 17:7
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
(KJV)

The seven heads = seven mountains (areas of the earth); ten horns = ten kings over those areas. The woman = a city. The 2nd beast = the Antichrist, the dragon. The 1st beast is to suffer a deadly wound upon ONE of its seven heads (mountains). The 2nd beast (Antichrist) comes to heal that wound. The woman is arrayed in purple and scarlet which represents what?? Royalty! So the woman is the city WHERE the royal power sits in order to rule over the whole... beast kingdom (whole earth). And the king the woman is 'married' to is...

a clue = who is God married to per the OT prophets? who did He marry symbolically?

That's what the Antichrist is coming to do.