The Rapture is Post-trib

[Zao is life]

Whoever is teaching you that the 5th seal is the great tribulation is totally without understanding. How can they be told to rest a while longer until the full number of their fellow servants who are to be killed as they were is complete if it's already happening? The 5th seal is telling us only that it's about to come.

It's about to come because the 5th seal opens another part of what is written in the scroll - the 5th trumpet and 5th bowl. The beast ascends from the abyss - but the locusts who come out of the smoke ascending from the opened abyss is torturing only those who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. Later they are seen to be rejoicing over the martyred two witnesses because the two witnesses tortured them. Key word in the 5th trumpet and 5th bowl: Torture (of unbelievers).

Key word in the 6th trumpet and 6th bowl: Armies. It's Armageddon. That's why the kings of the earth who committed fornication with the harlot are seen to be trying to hide from the wrath of the Lamb - because these called "the kings of the earth" are the unfaithful saints who committed fornication with the harlot, and they recognise that what is happening is written, the Revelation is being fulfilled. 6th seal, 6th trumpet, 6th bowl. 6 6 6.

Key words in the 7th seal, 7th trumpet and 7th bowl are the same: Noises, thundering, lightening, earthquake.

If you don't have the understanding, you won't see it. You need to pray first for humility though. Else you will never receive the understanding.

You're so obsessed with chronology that you fail to see what the 6 6 6 and the 7 7 7 of the 6th seal, 6th trumpet and 6th bowl and 7th seal, 7th trumpet and 7th bowl are telling us.

How long will it take of the beast to gather his armies? We are not told. We are told that when his time - 6 6 6 - is up, Christ will be seen coming in the clouds and the saints will be resurrected/raptured, and all indications are that this will be the Day of the beast's destruction by Christ and His armies - 7 7 7.

Absolutely impossible. The 7th seal contains the 7th trumpet.

This is an illogical conclusion that has led you astray.


I don't know exactly what you are saying. However, sounds like another illogical conclusion.


Whoever is teaching you this is totally without understanding. The first four seals are the beginning of sorrows in Matthew 24. The fifth seal is the great tribulation. The sixth seal is the coming of Jesus for a harvest which occurs immediately after the tribulation and before the wrath of God. The seventh seal is the wrath of God. The 7th seal contains the 7 trumpets of wrath. This is the same timeframe as the 7 bowls of wrath.

There is no 7-7-7. That's total made up misunderstanding. There are 7 seals but the 7th seal contains the 7 trumpets.

The seals happen in order with the 6th seal being the coming of Jesus for a harvest. Jesus remains in the clouds and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. Matthew 24: 29-31. They all return to heaven for the marriage supper and the wrath of God begins. The wrath of God is the 7th seal, which contains the 7th trumpets of wrath. The 7 bowls are the same timeframe as the 7 trumpets.

Why would you make the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal which is BEFORE WRATH, the same coming of Jesus at the end of wrath. So Jesus comes both at the 6th seal and at the end of the trumpets.

 

[ewq1938]

The seal is not "happening". The seals do not "happen".

Your belief that the 7 trumpets are part of the 7th seal violates what you say here. None of the seals described events happen at the time of their opening which is also true of the 7th seal not just the other 6.

The entirety of the 7th seal's information is done and complete before any angel receives a trumpet. Seals do not "happen", including the 7th!

 

[No Pre-TB]

So you're telling me that Matthew 24 is not about the coming of Christ.
Matthew 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

This event, the second coming, happens when the 6th seal is opened.

The second coming is at his appearing and kingdom per 2Tim 4:1
His kingdom has not come at the 6th seal.
The only thing immediate after the tribulation of those days is the 6th seal opened. The coming of Christ is not said to be immediate after the 6th seal. It only says then shall appear the sign of him therefore his appearing does not precede it.

If you did a word study on the 6th seal event, you’d notice he rises that day, he makes his majesty known, he prepares judgement in silence. None of which is his coming to resurrect .

How many bema seats are there? How many times are his followers rewarded?

 

[The Light]

The second coming is at his appearing and kingdom per 2Tim 4:1

2 Timothy 4
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

AND.

I'm pretty you know what and means. Which further proves my point.

His kingdom has not come at the 6th seal.

Exactly. His kingdom occurs at the 7th trumpet.

However, His appearing occurs at the 6th seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. He appears for a harvest. He remains in the clouds and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The only thing immediate after the tribulation of those days is the 6th seal opened. The coming of Christ is not said to be immediate after the 6th seal. It only says then shall appear the sign of him therefore his appearing does not precede it.

FACT. Jesus appears at the 6th seal for the gathering from heaven and earth.

We can prove this by the harvest shown in Revelation 14 which occurs before the wrath of God.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

If you did a word study on the 6th seal event, you’d notice he rises that day, he makes his majesty known, he prepares judgement in silence. None of which is his coming to resurrect .

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

How many bema seats are there? How many times are his followers rewarded?

1 Corinthians 15
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

He comes for the dead in Christ. Then He returns for the alive that remained. That's two comings.

Then He comes for the next first fruits.
Revelation 14
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Then He comes for the next harvest.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

That's four comings if you don't count when the two witnesses are caught up and when He returns to set up His kingdom.

 

[ewq1938]

However, His appearing occurs at the 6th seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. He appears for a harvest. He remains in the clouds and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And this gathering happens after the trib is over. You cannot say the trib is over at the 6th seal since it doesn't even start until the 6th trump which is when the two witnesses have 1260 days and the beast which kills them a few days before the 7th trump has 42 months.

 

[The Light]

And this gathering happens after the trib is over. You cannot say the trib is over at the 6th seal since it doesn't even start until the 6th trump which is when the two witnesses have 1260 days and the beast which kills them a few days before the 7th trump has 42 months.

Brother, you are so confused, I don't think you'll get it.

You can take the signs of the sun, moon and stars of Revelation 6 and Matthew 24 and conclude that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal. THIS IS SIMPLE LOGIC.


Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The tribulation is over at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal and the wrath of God is the 7th seal trumpets of the 7 angels. Wrath is over at the 7th trumpet. Christ has set up His kingdom on earth.

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[No Pre-TB]

He comes for the dead in Christ. Then He returns for the alive that remained. That's two comings

I really wish you’d stop guessing and read what you write. There is only 1 more coming. That’s it. There’s no 3rd advent.

He leaves heaven when it’s the time to restore all things. At that time will be the resurrection of the dead first at the last day. Afterward, while in the clouds with the dead, those who are not dead and survived will be seized to them in those clouds. There is no U-turn. Do you understand apantesis is meeting Christ and escorting him to his kingdom?

 

[Zao is life]

Your belief that the 7 trumpets are part of the 7th seal violates what you say here. None of the seals described events happen at the time of their opening which is also true of the 7th seal not just the other 6.

The entirety of the 7th seal's information is done and complete before any angel receives a trumpet. Seals do not "happen", including the 7th!

I never said all the trumpets and vials are in the 7th seal so your claim about what I said is false.

Each seal unveils a part of the things that were already written in the scroll before the scroll was sealed with seven seals. The 6th seal unveils the 6th trumpet and 6th bowl - 6-6-6 - Armageddon. The 7th seal unveils the 7th trumpet and 7th bowl - 7-7-7 - the final (7th of 7) judgement of the beast & false prophet.

This is why Jesus is quoted in the midst of John's record of the visions he was seeing regarding 6th judgement:

Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame. Revelation 16:15.

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he will begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He has declared to His servants the prophets. Revelation 10:7.

Revelation 10 appears as a parenthetical chapter in-between the 6th and 7th trumpets.

@ewq1938 I should make that more clear: Those who have assumed that God's people will be delivered from Egypt the world before the first six of the judgments, in the form of the first six of the seven last plagues upon Egypt those who worshiped the beast and received his mark, begin to come upon Pharaoh's kingdom the beast's kingdom, have misunderstood.

The final bowl of the wrath of God will come upon Pharaoh the beast with the 7th and final plague/bowl of wrath - in the same hour the saints will be delivered through the sea resurrected/raptured.

Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame. Revelation 16:15.

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he will begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He has declared to His servants the prophets. Revelation 10:7.

Jesus promised to keep those who belong to Him (the faithful saints), just as He kept the children of Jacob during their persecution under the hand of Pharaoh .

Because you have kept the word of My patience, I also will keep you from the hour of temptation which will come upon all the world, to try those who dwell upon the earth. Revelation 3:10.
​

The hour of trial that Jesus told His church is coming, ends with (is completed with) the 7th trumpet and 7th bowl, the knowledge of which was sealed by the 7th seal until Jesus unveiled it/loosened the seal.

The 7th seal also tells us that heaven will be silent for "half an hour".

The Revelation does not tell us how long the hour of trial is (Revelation 3:10), but we are however told that Babylon the great will be destroyed in 1 hour, and that the ten kings that destroy Babylon the great will reign with the beast ascended from the abyss for 1 hour, and that the beast will be given authority to continue for 42 months.

If the above is the hour of trial, we still have not been told whether or not the "half an hour" during which "heaven will be silent" (the 7th seal) is during the hour of trial, and if so, whether it be for the first half or the latter half of the hour of trial.

In His 7th message (to the 7th church) Jesus warns about keeping our garments and not being caught naked. That's the last time He is quoted as speaking directly to His people (those who have ears to hear Him) until Revelation 16:15:

Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.

The final bowl of the wrath of God will come upon Pharaoh the beast with the 7th and final plague/bowl of wrath - in the same hour the saints will be delivered through the sea resurrected/raptured.

The great tribulation is the tribulation of God's people at the hands of Pharaoh the beast.

 

[The Light]

I really wish you’d stop guessing and read what you write. There is only 1 more coming. That’s it. There’s no 3rd advent.

I really wish you would start reading what the word says instead of what you have been told. The Lord comes for the Church, pretrib secret rapture. The Lord returns for the gathering from heaven and earth at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulaiton and before wrath. He remains in the clouds and sends His angels at the second coming. At the second advent, which is after wrath, He puts His feet on the earth and sets up His kingdom.

He leaves heaven when it’s the time to restore all things. At that time will be the resurrection of the dead first at the last day. Afterward, while in the clouds with the dead, those who are not dead and survived will be seized to them in those clouds. There is no U-turn. Do you understand apantesis is meeting Christ and escorting him to his kingdom?

U-turn? No He takes everyone to heaven for the marriage supper...........like the Word says. You know, great multitude before the throne after the 6th seal.

 

[David in NJ]

I never said all the trumpets and vials are in the 7th seal so your claim about what I said is false.

Each seal unveils a part of the things that were already written in the scroll before the scroll was sealed with seven seals. The 6th seal unveils the 6th trumpet and 6th bowl - 6-6-6 - Armageddon. The 7th seal unveils the 7th trumpet and 7th bowl - 7-7-7 - the final (7th of 7) judgement of the beast & false prophet.

This is why Jesus is quoted in the midst of John's record of the visions he was seeing regarding 6th judgement:

Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame. Revelation 16:15.

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he will begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He has declared to His servants the prophets. Revelation 10:7.

Revelation 10 appears as a parenthetical chapter in-between the 6th and 7th trumpets.

@ewq1938 Those who have assumed that God's people will be delivered from Egypt the world before the judgements in the form of the seven last plagues upon Egypt upon those who worshipped the beast and received his mark begin to come upon Pharaoh the beast have misunderstood.

Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame. Revelation 16:15.

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he will begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He has declared to His servants the prophets. Revelation 10:7.

Jesus promised to guard over His people, just as God guarded over His people during their trial under Pharaoh the beast.

Because you have kept the word of My patience, I also will keep you from the hour of temptation which will come upon all the world, to try those who dwell upon the earth. Revelation 3:10.
​

The hour of trial that Jesus told His church is coming, ends with (is completed with) the 7th trumpet and 7th bowl, the knowledge of which was sealed by the 7th seal until Jesus unveiled it/loosened the seal.

The 7th seal also tells us that heaven will be silent for "half an hour".

The Revelation does not tell us how long the hour of trial is (Revelation 3:10), but we are however told that Babylon the great will be destroyed in 1 hour, and that the ten kings that destroy Babylon the great will reign with the beast ascended from the abyss for 1 hour, and that the beast will be given authority to continue for 42 months.

If the above is the hour of trial, we still have not been told whether or not the "half an hour" during which "heaven will be silent" (the 7th seal) is during the hour of trial, and if so, whether it be for the first half or the latter half of the hour of trial.

In His 7th message (to the 7th church) Jesus warns about keeping our garments and not being caught naked. That's the last time He is quoted as speaking directly to His people (those who have ears to hear Him) until Revelation 16:15:

Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.

The final bowl of the wrath of God will come upon Pharaoh the beast with the 7th and final plague/bowl of wrath - in the same hour the saints will be delivered through the sea resurrected/raptured.

The great tribulation is the tribulation of God's people at the hands of Pharaoh the beast.

"Jesus promised to guard over His people, just as God guarded over His people during their trial under Pharaoh the beast."

You may want to change this slightly.

 

[Zao is life]

"Jesus promised to guard over His people, just as God guarded over His people during their trial under Pharaoh the beast."

You may want to change this slightly.

You'll have to explain why. I did go back now to edit that post and explain this more clearly:

I should make that more clear: Those who have assumed that God's people will be delivered from Egypt the world before the first six of the judgments, in the form of the first six of the seven last plagues upon Egypt those who worshiped the beast and received his mark, begin to come upon Pharaoh's the beast's kingdom have misunderstood.

But as to God guarding over His people:

Revelation 3:10: "Because you have kept [tēréō] [τηρησω tēréō: guarded from loss or injury by keeping their eye upon and preserving] the word of My patience, I also will keep [tēréō] you from the hour of temptation which will come upon all the world, to try those who dwell upon the earth."

John 17
6 "I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave to Me out of the world. They were Yours, and You gave them to Me, and they have kept [τηρησω tēréō: guarded from loss or injury by keeping their eye upon and preserving] Your word."

11-15: "And now I am in the world no longer, but these are in the world, and I come to You, Holy Father. Keep [tēréō] them in Your name, those whom You have given Me, so that they may be one as We are.
While I was with them in the world, I kept [tēréō] them in Your name. Those that You have given Me I have kept [tēréō], and none of them is lost, except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
And now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world that they might have My joy fulfilled in them.
I have given them Your Word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

I do not pray for You to take them out of the world, but for You to keep [tēréō] them from the evil."

Clearly, there are those who will lose their lives for the sake of their faithfulness to His name - but there are those who will remain until the coming of the Lord. He will keep both those who lose their lives for His name's sake and those who don't.

He will be with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego His faithful remnant in the midst of the burning, fiery furnace great tribulation.

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to declare to His servants things which must shortly come to pass" (Revelation 1:1) is saturated with biblical types.

 

[David in NJ]

You'll have to explain why. I did go back now to edit that post and explain this more clearly:

I should make that more clear: Those who have assumed that God's people will be delivered from Egypt the world before the first six of the judgments, in the form of the first six of the seven last plagues upon Egypt those who worshiped the beast and received his mark, begin to come upon Pharaoh's the beast's kingdom have misunderstood.

But as to God guarding over His people:

Revelation 3:10: "Because you have kept [tēréō] [τηρησω tēréō: guarded from loss or injury by keeping their eye upon and preserving] the word of My patience, I also will keep [tēréō] you from the hour of temptation which will come upon all the world, to try those who dwell upon the earth."

John 17
6 "I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave to Me out of the world. They were Yours, and You gave them to Me, and they have kept [τηρησω tēréō: guarded from loss or injury by keeping their eye upon and preserving] Your word."

11-15: "And now I am in the world no longer, but these are in the world, and I come to You, Holy Father. Keep [tēréō] them in Your name, those whom You have given Me, so that they may be one as We are.
While I was with them in the world, I kept [tēréō] them in Your name. Those that You have given Me I have kept [tēréō], and none of them is lost, except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
And now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world that they might have My joy fulfilled in them.
I have given them Your Word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

I do not pray for You to take them out of the world, but for You to keep [tēréō] them from the evil."

Clearly, there are those who will lose their lives for the sake of their faithfulness to His name - but there are those who will remain until the coming of the Lord. He will keep both those who lose their lives for His name's sake and those who don't.

He will be with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego His faithful remnant in the midst of the burning, fiery furnace great tribulation.

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to declare to His servants things which must shortly come to pass" (Revelation 1:1) is saturated with biblical types.

Both Posts are fine.

Just look at your sentence which i quoted in Post #150 = only that sentence.

 

[Zao is life]

Both Posts are fine.

Just look at your sentence which i quoted in Post #150 = only that sentence.

"Jesus promised to keep those who belong to Him (the faithful saints), just as He kept the children of Jacob during their persecution under the hand of Pharaoh ."

I'm still not sure what you mean :

 

[The Light]

Each seal unveils a part of the things that were already written in the scroll before the scroll was sealed with seven seals. The 6th seal unveils the 6th trumpet and 6th bowl - 6-6-6 - Armageddon. The 7th seal unveils the 7th trumpet and 7th bowl - 7-7-7 - the final (7th of 7) judgement of the beast & false prophet.​

Totally wrong. By now you should understand that the beginning of sorrows that Jesus talks about in Matthew 24 are the 1st four seals. The great tribulation is the 5th seal and the coming of Jesus for the gathering from heaven and earth is the 6th seal.

The 6th seal does not unveil the 6th trumpet. Jesus comes at the 6th seal and when the 7th seal is opened, wrath can begin. The trumpets go in order for one to seven and have nothing whatsoever to do with the first 6 seals.

​

 

[Zao is life]

Totally wrong. By now you should understand that the beginning of sorrows that Jesus talks about in Matthew 24 are the 1st four seals. The great tribulation is the 5th seal and the coming of Jesus for the gathering from heaven and earth is the 6th seal.

The 6th seal does not unveil the 6th trumpet. Jesus comes at the 6th seal and when the 7th seal is opened, wrath can begin. The trumpets go in order for one to seven and have nothing whatsoever to do with the first 6 seals.

That's your understanding of it. The great tribulation of Matthew 24 is the same tribulation that follows the birth-pain signs, and the same tribulation that precedes the return of Christ. The AoD in the holy place is the man of sin seating himself up in the (New Testament) Temple as the head of the church. It has nothing to do with armies gathering against Jerusalem in 70 A.D, and nothing to do with Zechariah 14 (which says nothing about an AoD in the holy place).
​

The AoD in the holy place is the anti-type of Antiochus IV Epiphanes's idol in the temple in 167 B.C - which did not result in the destruction of the city or the temple.

"Abomination of Desolation" is a phrase from the Book of Daniel describing the pagan sacrifices with which the 2nd century BC Greek king Antiochus IV Epiphanes replaced the twice-daily offering in the Jewish temple, or alternatively the altar on which such offerings were made." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abomination_of_desolation)

The Revelation calls only New Jerusalem the holy city - three times. It does not call the other cities mentioned the holy city: Babylon the Great, the city spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, and the cities of the nations which fell when the 7th of 7 bowls of wrath is poured out.

New Jerusalem is the holy city mentioned in Revelation 11:2, and the naos - the (New Testament) Temple is the Temple mentioned in Revelation 11:1.

Neither can be destroyed by Antiochus IV's idol the man of sin in the Temple because their builder is God - but the (New Testament) Temple can be defiled by the man of sin - the idol in it. It will be cleansed afterward and reconsecrated to God.

Whether it be seals, trumpets or bowls, seven is final. Nothing follows seven. Except the 8th day.​

 

[David in NJ]

"Jesus promised to keep those who belong to Him (the faithful saints), just as He kept the children of Jacob during their persecution under the hand of Pharaoh ."

I'm still not sure what you mean :

MUCH BETTER

Here - look at the claim JESUS makes of HIMSELF = Matt 23:37

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

Get it?

 

[Zao is life]

MUCH BETTER

Here - look at the claim JESUS makes of HIMSELF = Matt 23:37

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

Get it?

I don't ever think of a difference between the name "Jesus" and the word "God", which is why I wrote it like that.

Psalm 33:6
By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.
(Father, Son and Holy Spirit).

John 1:1-4
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.
In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

PS: I do see and believe in the distinction in scripture and in the words of Jesus which is described by the church as the "Trinity".

 

[The Light]

That's your understanding of it. The great tribulation of Matthew 24 is the same tribulation that follows the birth-pain signs, and the same tribulation that precedes the return of Christ.​

Exactly. The return of Christ at the 6th seal for the gathering from heaven and earth immediately after the tribulation and before the wrath of God. At the end wrath the Lord will return for Armageddon and to set up His kingdom.

The AoD in the holy place is the man of sin seating himself up in the (New Testament) Temple as the head of the church. It has nothing to do with armies gathering against Jerusalem in 70 A.D, and nothing to do with Zechariah 14 (which says nothing about an AoD in the holy place).​

I agree. He will claim to be God.

​

 

[David in NJ]

Exactly. The return of Christ at the 6th seal for the gathering from heaven and earth immediately after the tribulation and before the wrath of God. At the end wrath the Lord will return for Armageddon and to set up His kingdom.


I agree. He will claim to be God.

The 6th Seal shows us the Second Coming of Christ.

 

[The Light]

The 6th Seal shows us the Second Coming of Christ.

Exactly. The Second Coming of Christ, where He remains in the clouds at the 6th seal for the gathering from heaven and earth immediately after the tribulation and before the wrath of God.

At the end of wrath the Lord will return to earth, the Second Advent, for Armageddon and to set up His kingdom.