The Resurrection is for all people (thank you Yeshua!)

[MatthewG]

You still intended to address your subjecitve belief without taking time to look into what I suggested about Revelation 22.

So sure you can believe what you want that is fine and I don’t look down on you because you are doing such.

My hope is God to get his will and not what man believes his will is. That would be having all confess the name of the Lord Yeshua, either in this life or in the afterlife.

Though many believe that there is no second chances, or that type of rhetoric, however it never says that so explicitly in the text itself.

The argument to go against what I’m saying doesn’t matter to me, @CadyandZoe

This is also why I find sola scriptura so distasteful, it’s never really the full picture it’s only the picture the individuals is willingly to take in.

 

[Earburner]

You still intended to address your subjecitve belief without taking time to look into what I suggested about Revelation 22.

So sure you can believe what you want that is fine and I don’t look down on you because you are doing such.

My hope is God to get his will and not what man believes his will is. That would be having all confess the name of the Lord Yeshua, either in this life or in the afterlife.

Though many believe that there is no second chances, or that type of rhetoric, however it never says that so explicitly in the text itself.

The argument to go against what I’m saying doesn’t matter to me, @CadyandZoe

The point being made scripturally and spiritually is that for all who are not resurrected into the immortality of Christ's likeness, they were never His. That is exactly what Romans 8:8-9 is saying: "they are none His".
If therefore all of such, are "none of His", there truly is no place found for them IN the KoG/KoH, who IS Jesus Himself.

 

[MatthewG]

It brings up another question

“What is Gods will” for people to perish or not?

 

[MatthewG]

There also seems to be a place for them, from my perspective in Revelation 22 but maybe people don’t see it, @Earburner they normally just stop between Rev 20-21.

God is a good God.

 

[Earburner]

This is also why I find sola scriptura so distasteful, it’s never really the full picture it’s only the picture the individuals is willingly to take in.

I agree with you on that. We must discern "sola scripture" through the Holy Spirit. By OUR use of our lowly human language(s), we have OUR meaning of OUR words, but through the Holy Spirit, He will reveal/show to us God's MEANING through OUR words.
Not many here attempt to grasp that.

 

[Earburner]

It brings up another question

“What is Gods will” for people to perish or not?

It is God's will that no man should perish. He only knocks upon our door, waiting for us to open it to Him. He never comes crashing it down! He respects our own self will.
Revelation 3:20.

 

[ChristisGod]

The point being made scripturally and spiritually is that for all who are not resurrected into the immortality of Christ's likeness, they were never His. That is exactly what Romans 8:8-9 is saying: "they are none His".
If therefore all of such, are "none of His", there truly is no place found for them IN the KoG/KoH, who IS Jesus Himself.

Good luck getting through there seems to be a wall.

 

[ChristisGod]

It is God's will that no man should perish. He only knocks upon our door, waiting for us to open it to Him. He never comes crashing it down! He respects our own self will.
Revelation 3:20.

Yes and those who reject His offer for their sins get the due punishment for their sins- the eternal lake of fire with conscious torment forever. God forces no one to love Him. Men go to hell by their own will and choice. God just gives them what they want - to wallow in their sin for eternity without Him.

 

[Earburner]

Yes and those who reject His offer for their sins get the due punishment for their sins- the eternal lake of fire with conscious torment forever.
God forces no one to love Him. Men go to hell by their own will and choice. God just gives them what they want - to wallow in their sin for eternity without Him.

Yes, the punishment of eternal death is the just reward, for neglecting the only means of God's salvation that is possible, while we still have breath, aka "the breath of life"- "nephesh".

I can't say that hell (the pit/graves) are eternal, for they also are found to be in the lake of fire.
The origin of the LoF is by the Eternal consuming fire of God Himself, but once everything is burned up and destroyed, that fire will cease to burn.
Therefore He Himself, who is an Everlasting fire, is not any part of that Lake of fire. To think that to be so, means that all the wicked dead are literally alive, burning forever within the consuming fire of God Himself.

 

[Earburner]

There also seems to be a place for them, from my perspective in Revelation 22 but maybe people don’t see it, @Earburner they normally just stop between Rev 20-21.

God is a good God.

We being mortal and limited daily by time, have no idea, nor can we truly imagine how the Being of God does live in the past, present and future all at the same time, and then speak about it by the same way.
Revelation 22 is a good example of that.
We are to discern it, realizing that the past, present and future, are all being revealed at the same time.
Isaiah 55:8-9 applies here.

 

[MatthewG]

It sounds like you believe that the end reward for those who didn’t believe they will not come to confess the Lord Jesus Christ either, @Earburner.

Is that indeed what you are suggesting?

I don’t believe that, that is not my hope. My hope is that God will win in the end. And get what he desires which having none to perish.

If I am wrong about it I’ll be glad to be wrong about it, and perhaps he will do away with me too if that is the case.

Revelation says there are those who are bless who washed their robes, (those who believed on the Lord and done his commandments loving God and loving others) those without having washed their robes (not had faith) are outside the kingdom of God.

So I appreciate your advice and appreciate you share what you have come to understand it doesn’t mean I have to take every word you do share as sound or as the after results of what God deemed to see fit to allow John to write in the end and after all things from Revelation 1-21 has come to fruition and was done with sir.

 

[PinSeeker]

Yes, the punishment of eternal death is the just reward, for neglecting the only means of God's salvation that is possible, while we still have breath, aka "the breath of life"- "nephesh". I can't say that hell (the pit/graves) are eternal, for they also are found to be in the lake of fire. Hell is no longer a possibility for those of us who are in Christ. The origin of the LoF is by the Eternal consuming fire of God Himself, but once everything is burned up and destroyed, that fire will cease to burn. Therefore He Himself, who is an Everlasting fire, is not any part of that Lake of fire. To think that to be so, means that all the wicked dead are literally alive, burning forever within the consuming fire of God Himself.

There seem to be some good and bad in this statement ~ not necessarily is, but seems to be ~ so I'm not going to address this specifically except to clear the air on the things being spoken of here:

God is never to be associated with anything in our temporal existence, even fire; to do so is blasphemy, actually. He is not fire in the literal, earthly sense, just as our tongues are not literal fires in the sense that James, in James 3:6, says the tongue is a fire... much less do our tongues start literal forest fires. James even clarifies what he means by our tongue being a fire, that it is a world of unrighteousness. Yes, our God is a consuming fire (Deuteronomy, Hebrews) but God is Spirit (John 4:24), so He cannot be a literal flame of any size. The lake of fire or Revelation 20 is hell and demonstrates God’s consummate justice and his utter frustration of all the devices of wickedness. The new heaven and the new earth are free from all that has contaminated the world in the first order of things.

Eternal death, the second death, should not be understood as annihilation, or extinction, or bodily destruction ~ 'destruction' and 'destroy(ed)' in those instances in God's Word is to be understood as being in a state of ruin and without hope of redemption or salvation; it is a state of existence. Even temporally speaking, we were once all dead in our sin, even after our birth; this is the natural human condition. It will be likewise in eternity for those not of the Lord, not in Christ. Jesus's parable in Luke 16 is very instructive on this subject. The rich man is in this "lake of fire," under and totally immersed in God's judgment, and not able to leave that place, fully recognizing that there can be no relief, and knowing that while he was still alive on earth he had ample opportunity to and could have avoided this fate. Abraham, who is representative of Christ in this parable, tells him exactly that, and this is his torment. It's a terrifying picture of the result of not being found in Christ at the judgment and experiencing the resurrection to judgment (John 5:29) and the second death, which is eternal separation from Christ Jesus, Who is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6). One might call it "fear-mongering," but Jesus is using the parable to exhort living folks to avoid that fate while there is yet time, in the very same sense that He says, in Matthew 10:28, "fear Him Who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

Grace and peace to all.

 

[MatthewG]

How can this be true if all people are just gonna be annihilated…


“Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:9-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬


“The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭NIV‬‬

God intends by his desire to not have anyone to perish but all to come to repentance. Do both of these scriptures tie in together? You have to decide.

“Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭33:11‬ ‭NIV‬‬

This is interesting it’s what God doesn’t find pleasure in.

Human beings do though, when the wicked are caught and given their punishment normally human beings rejoice in this… they will go and sit and watch a person be put to death and fee justified by it (if they still do that in America by Death penalty…) Calvinist have a view that God rejoices in this as well, but not according to this scripture.


“Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:23‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Another proof of what God desires, for others to turn from their ways and find the truth in His Son.


“This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭NIV‬‬

We know not everyone in this life comes to the truth, and thus this saying exist below, from Jesus.


“but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness — to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment;’”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭3:29‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

So judgment comes which lasts an age for unbelievers. That ends until they choose to repent, and turn from their own ways.


“for it hath been written, ‘I live! saith the Lord — to Me bow shall every knee, and every tongue shall confess to God;’”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:11‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

This above sharing what the Lord says…


“wherefore, I give you to understand that no one, in the Spirit of God speaking, saith Jesus [is] anathema, and no one is able to say Jesus [is] Lord, except in the Holy Spirit.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12:3‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

And no one will be able to say Jesus is lord expect by the Holy Spirit.

This is why I believe people after this life have a place to go, consider the below verse.


“‘Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city; and without [are] the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving and is doing a lie.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:14-15‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

I believe all people are resurrected, some Are saved to the kingdom of God in this life when they pass away they will go to be with God because of faith.

Those who are without will be outside the kingdom of God because of faithlessness.

What is interesting about this to me, is that either resurrection which is given - which we try to encourage people to go and seek God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Is that God will be giving a resurrected body to the believer and the non believer, and God is a giver of good gifts, though the end result for a non-believer is loss and ruin they will still given a gift from God which is a spiritual body (to me personally some disagree).


“and God doth give to it a body according as He willed, and to each of the seeds its proper body.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:38‬ ‭YLT98‬‬


“Be not led astray, my brethren beloved; every good giving, and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the lights, with whom is no variation, or shadow of turning; having counselled, He did beget us with a word of truth, for our being a certain firstfruit of His creatures.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:16-18‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

This concluded my overall view and scope of why I believe the way I do.

You may disagree it’s all well and good with me.

God bless.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You still intended to address your subjecitve belief without taking time to look into what I suggested about Revelation 22.

So sure you can believe what you want that is fine and I don’t look down on you because you are doing such.

My hope is God to get his will and not what man believes his will is. That would be having all confess the name of the Lord Yeshua, either in this life or in the afterlife.

Though many believe that there is no second chances, or that type of rhetoric, however it never says that so explicitly in the text itself.

The argument to go against what I’m saying doesn’t matter to me, @CadyandZoe

Let's move the argument away from theory and address why this matters to you. What did you hope to accomplish in this thread and what prompted you to question the current understanding?

 

[MatthewG]

It is incumbent for individuals to seek out answers for themselves, and to grow in their knowledge about God and his will, @CadyandZoe. That comes even at the cost of questioning anything you have ever been taught. From what is understood from scripture everything is shakable (materially), but what is not shakable is everything (spiritually).

 

[Earburner]

death, the second death, should not be understood as annihilation, or extinction, or bodily destruction ~ 'destruction' and 'destroy(ed)' in those instances in God's Word is to be understood as being in a state of ruin and without hope of redemption or salvation; it is a state of existence.

And who exactly would be sustaining that state of existence of personal hopelessness into eternity, outside the KoG?

 

[PinSeeker]

And who exactly would be sustaining that state of existence of personal hopelessness into eternity, outside the KoG?

Hmmm... why do you ask that, Earburner?

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Earburner]

Hmmm... why do you ask that, Earburner?

Grace and peace to you.

It's simply a logical question about having faith in Jesus Christ, and His promise of God's Gift of eternal life.
But, if a person refuses to have faith in Jesus, choosing to disobey the Gospel, how are they being sustained to be alive/conscious, in a place of eternal torment?

 

[PinSeeker]

It's simply a logical question about having faith in Jesus Christ, and His promise of God's Gift of eternal life. But, if a person refuses to have faith in Jesus, choosing to disobey the Gospel, how are they being sustained to be alive/conscious, in a place of eternal torment?

Hmmm, I see... :) Are you getting at the tree of life, Earburner? If so, then that's good... :)

Grace and peace to you.

 

[face2face]

It brings up another question

“What is Gods will” for people to perish or not?

Have you ever had a pet that's died?