The Righteousness of God

[Episkopos]

PS: - The OT is important to read and also understand as it bring greater meaning to our understanding of the NT.

I agree with this. The OT are the scriptures Paul was talking about...and a great source to uncover the mysteries that God has placed there for the diligent student of the word.

The Lord told me to learn Hebrew which I did...back in 2000.

So my studies are in Hebrew.

Do you read Hebrew...without which the OT is unknowable to any depth?

See my signature at the bottom. It is written in the Niphal verb tense which means that it could read "let us walk in the light"...

Do you get that?

 

[Jay Ross]

Well then you need guidance....the bible is not about your personal interpretation no matter how long you ponder it. You have missed the boat here.

Fortunately, that is only your opinion. God will judge me harshly if I am wrong and also bring the appropriate correct to my understanding when needed.

Do you also have a humble heart?

 

[Episkopos]

Fortunately, that is only your opinion. God will judge me harshly if I am wrong and also bring the appropriate correct to my understanding when needed.

Do you also have a humble heart?

How can I compare what I have been given to my attitude towards that? That is for others to decide.

I am still learning humility....since it is a moving target.

 

[Jay Ross]

How can I compare what I have been given to my attitude towards that? That is for others to decide.

I am still learning humility....since it is a moving target.

Then stop fighting any correction that I am giving to help you understand better a small part of the scriptures.

Shalom

 

[Harvest 1874]

For those who have become a bit confused over these two parables (The Parable of the Talents and The Parable of the Pounds) we have covered both on our blog post located on this site. Just follow the link.

 

[Episkopos]

Then stop fighting any correction that I am giving to help you understand better a small part of the scriptures.

Shalom

I rebuke your insinuating the devil into a kingdom parable. They are about the Lord and His kingdom. The talent is about bearing fruit with the grace we have been given. You have gotten sidetracked and snared by the devil here.

 

[Jay Ross]

I rebuke your insinuating the devil into a kingdom parable. They are about the Lord and His kingdom. The talent is about bearing fruit with the grace we have been given. You have gotten sidetracked and snared by the devil here.

It sounds like you are protecting your understanding and not God's understanding. Now I have not rebuked you, only provided correction.

Let it go as I am finished with your foolishness.

Have a good day now.

 

[Episkopos]

Righteousness is to DO the right thing. It doesn't mean to be sinless...but rather to act with love and good intent. It is honest and innocent of evil intent. Sometimes it means to believe something...from good faith...but mainly to do something. The second main commandment...to love others...is about righteousness.

Holiness is the beauty of God. Only HE has what we would term holiness. He is unique....with a unique presence and glory. So then holiness for us is to walk with or IN God...in His presence. His proximity changes things around Him the way a fire melts or consumes things. Nothing is His proximity is anything but holy. And there is nothing holy away from His presence. The first main commandment is to love God the way He is...in holiness.

The righteousness of God is the acting out of God's will and judgments. It means God getting involved.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I don't have any huge objections to what epi has said. If a man can understand it and it helps him practically and grows his trust, then that's good.

I see the talent all the men receive as a seed of trust (faith). I understand there is something we learn/ grow to maturity in/ increase, as even Jesus LEARNED the obedience of trust by the things He suffered.

i guess if I had a complaint with what episk has said, it would be more in what he didn't add. (As if any man can say all things at once for the demanding Miss Jen ).

One plants, another waters, but God gives the growth. We don't give our own growth.

We do however get exercised by Him and also learn the obedience of trust through the things we suffer. At first we grumble a lot, like Israel in the desert. But hopefully we learn the obedience of trust, and learn by Israel's bad exa mple.

We begin to thirst for true righteousness in our inner man. But we can't cause the increase. And epi did say we have to seek HIS righteousness, which is what we are doing when we hunger for it and ask and wait in trust.

This is the righteousness that is by trust (faith).

It's a bit like boot camp. We are torn down to be made stronger/enduring and obedient in trust.

It's hard to wait on God. We want immediate results and try to help birth that child He has promised - we try very hard to help bring that child about. But it isn't the child of our own working that is going to receive the promises. That child has to be sent away to make room for the child God creates and gives the promise to. (We can see this in spirit in the story of Abraham and sarah.)

And while we think we are waiting, we are really being put in circumstances that grow our trust.

And if we become weary in our hungering for righteousness in our inner man, as we keep seeing our lack of virtue, there's a verse that has helped me. It's this: and after you have suffered a little while, the God of all glory, who has called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself restore, confirm, strengthen and establish you.

 

[Jay Ross]

I don't have any huge objections to what epi has said. If a man can understand it and it helps him practically and grows his trust, then that's good.

I see the talent all the men receive as a seed of trust (faith). I understand there is something we learn/ grow to maturity in/ increase, as even Jesus LEARNED the obedience of trust by the things He suffered.

i guess if I had a complaint with what episk has said, it would be more in what he didn't add. (As if any man can say all things at once for the demanding Miss Jen ).

One plants, another waters, but God gives the growth. We don't give our own growth.

We do however get exercised by Him and also learn the obedience of trust through the things we suffer. At first we grumble a lot, like Israel in the desert. But hopefully we learn the obedience of trust, and learn by Israel's bad exa mple.

We begin to thirst for true righteousness in our inner man. But we can't cause the increase. And epi did say we have to seek HIS righteousness, which is what we are doing when we hunger for it and ask and wait in trust.

This is the righteousness that is by trust (faith).

It's a bit like boot camp. We are torn down to be made stronger/enduring and obedient in trust.

It's hard to wait on God. We want immediate results and try to help birth that child He has promised - we try very hard to help bring that child about. But it isn't the child of our own working that is going to receive the promises. That child has to be sent away to make room for the child God creates and gives the promise to. (We can see this in spirit in the story of Abraham and sarah.)

And while we think we are waiting, we are really being put in circumstances that grow our trust.

And if we become weary in our hungering for righteousness in our inner man, as we keep seeing our lack of virtue, there's a verse that has helped me. It's this: and after you have suffered a little while, the God of all glory, who has called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself restore, confirm, strengthen and establish you.

I have one question regarding what you have written.

If charging usury is wrong in the eyes of the Lord, i.e. Exodus 22:25, Leviticus 25: 36- 37, Deuteronomy 23:19, Psalm 15, Ezekiel 18: 7-17, 22: 12 etc., and that is the expectation of the man who goes away in the Parable of the Talents, i.e. Talents are large sums of money, then is the Parable of the Talents about what the Kingdom of God will be like, or is the message given in the Parable of the Talents that Satan, even though he has been imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years after the Everlasting Kingdom of God is established, will still exercise his influence over the whole earth through the exercising of using his money by his Good and faithful servants, to continue oppressing people during this time, before he returns and personally increases the tribulation of the people of the earth at that time?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Hi jay. :)

Well...It is a parable in which Jesus explains " what the kingdom of heaven is like, " so I do not see that it has to do with satan. When He spoke all of the parables on "the kingdom of heaven is like," He was explaining things of spirit, but in order to do so, He used things in the world that weren't spiritual and forever things, to say, not what the kingdom of heaven IS, but rather what it is LiKE.

Otherwise, things of spirit would be even harder for us to understand because we are grounded in a literal earth.

We use comparisons all the time to try to explain a thing to a person who has never experienced something. Just the other day I was trying to explain to someone what a chipped bone in my knee felt like when I accidentally bump it. I thought, and then I said, it's a bit like what a toothache feels like, but in my knee instead of my mouth. Was I saying a chipped bone IS a toothache? No, I was using something they HAD experienced in order to give them an idea of what something they HADN'T ever experienced was like.

 

[Jay Ross]

Hi jay. :)

Well...It is a parable in which Jesus explains " what the kingdom of heaven is like, " so I do not see that it has to do with satan. When He spoke all of the parables on "the kingdom of heaven is like," He was explaining things of spirit, but in order to do so, He used things in the world that weren't spiritual and forever things, to say, not what the kingdom of heaven IS, but rather what it is LiKE.

Otherwise, things of spirit would be even harder for us to understand because we are grounded in a literal earth.

We use comparisons all the time to try to explain a thing to a person who has never experienced something. Just the other day I was trying to explain to someone what a chipped bone in my knee felt like when I accidentally bump it. I thought, and then I said, it's a bit like what a toothache feels like, but in my knee instead of my mouth. Was I saying a chipped bone IS a toothache? No, I was using something they HAD experienced in order to give them an idea of what something they HADN'T ever experienced was like.

If you like to believe that the parable of the Talents is about what the Kingdom of God's everlasting Kingdom will be like, then go for that belief, but please no not use a parable about money and the use of that money by usury, be used to bring a teaching about what God's Everlasting Kingdom will be like.

In the passages I referenced above, in my post, people who lend money for usury are not welcome in God's kingdom as He has condemned them to the second death. In the parable of the Talents, the man who goes away berates his wicked servant because he did not give the talent he had to the money lenders to gain usury from it when he returned. Sadly, people want to ascribe this same attribute to Jesus as being acceptable.

Sadly, I have meet Churchie type people who have justified the overcharging of their services as good as being for service unto the Lord by the Parable of the Talents. All that they justified was their greed for wealth.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

If you like to believe that the parable of the Talents is about what the Kingdom of God's everlasting Kingdom will be like, then go for that belief, but please no not use a parable about money and the use of that money by usury, be used to bring a teaching about what God's Everlasting Kingdom will be like.

In the passages I referenced above, in my post, people who lend money for usury are not welcome in God's kingdom as He has condemned them to the second death. In the parable of the Talents, the man who goes away berates his wicked servant because he did not give the talent he had to the money lenders to gain usury from it when he returned. Sadly, people want to ascribe this same attribute to Jesus as being acceptable.

Sadly, I have meet Churchie type people who have justified the overcharging of their services as good as being for service unto the Lord by the Parable of the Talents. All that they justified was their greed for wealth.

I'm sorry that my understanding of the parable upsets you. I have said I do not even believe it is about money at all. And I'm sorry for men who you have seen misuse the verse to justify their greed.

I do not believe that is what the everlasting kingdom will be like. I just read it again. Jesus is saying: at that time the kingdom of heaven will be like...So "at that time" to me, means at His return.

 

[Jay Ross]

I'm sorry that my understanding of the parable upsets you. I have said I do not even believe it is about money at all. And I'm sorry for men who you have seen misuse the verse to justify their greed.

I do not believe that is what the everlasting kingdom will be like. I just read it again. Jesus is saying: at that time the kingdom of heaven will be like...So "at that time" to me, means at His return.

But in the NA27 Greek text, the Parable does not start off with, "The Kingdom of Heaven will be like …". It simply start with, "As for a man, going away for a time/abroad, calls his own servants . . " and give his possessions, i.e. money to the value of five, two and one Talents according to their ability to trade with that amount of money. In trading with his money he wanted a return on it in the form of collected usury.

As for the everlasting kingdom being like the description contained in both the parables of the Minas and the Talents, I too do not believe that the Everlasting Kingdom will be like this. Usury will not be a part of that kingdom.

You then go on to tell me that Jesus is describing the kingdom of heaven at the time of His return. That depends on when we individually believe when Jesus' second advent occurs. Both of the parables of the Minas and the Talents spans a long period of time while the master is away during which time he claims that he will receive a kingdom, which we know is a lie, and we know that Satan is a liar. The master in both of these parable will go away in our near future, and then return after a thousand years have passed, and when he comes back, according to the Minas parable he will then kill all of those who do not want him to be their king over them.

Now your understanding of these parables does not upset me at all, but your expressed understanding does sadden me as it paints the picture that when the man comes back, which you claim is Jesus, that Jesus will then kill all of the people who do not want Him to be their Lord and King. This just does not sound like Jesus to me.

Shalom.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

But in the NA27 Greek text, the Parable does not start off with, "The Kingdom of Heaven will be like …". It simply start with, "As for a man, going away for a time/abroad, calls his own servants . . " and give his possessions, i.e. money to the value of five, two and one Talents according to their ability to trade with that amount of money. In trading with his money he wanted a return on it in the form of collected usury.

As for the everlasting kingdom being like the description contained in both the parables of the Minas and the Talents, I too do not believe that the Everlasting Kingdom will be like this. Usury will not be a part of that kingdom.

You then go on to tell me that Jesus is describing the kingdom of heaven at the time of His return. That depends on when we individually believe when Jesus' second advent occurs. Both of the parables of the Minas and the Talents spans a long period of time while the master is away during which time he claims that he will receive a kingdom, which we know is a lie, and we know that Satan is a liar. The master in both of these parable will go away in our near future, and then return after a thousand years have passed, and when he comes back, according to the Minas parable he will then kill all of those who do not want him to be their king over them.

Now your understanding of these parables does not upset me at all, but your expressed understanding does sadden me as it paints the picture that when the man comes back, which you claim is Jesus, that Jesus will then kill all of the people who do not want Him to be their Lord and King. This just does not sound like Jesus to me.

Shalom.

Yes, I would be interested in seeing how the parable of the virgins begins in the Greek text you are talking about.

In my translation the parable of the virgins begins: at that time the kingdom of heaven will be like...which shows that He is continuing on from chapter 24, which speaks of when He returns. And then the parable of talents begins: Again, it will be like...

So you have to read it from the end of chapter 24.

How does the Greek have Him transitioning from 24 to the parable of the virgins and then transitioning into the talents?

 

[bbyrd009]

But in the NA27 Greek text, the Parable does not start off with, "The Kingdom of Heaven will be like …". It simply start with, "As for a man, going away for a time/abroad, calls his own servants . . " and give his possessions, i.e. money to the value of five, two and one Talents according to their ability to trade with that amount of money. In trading with his money he wanted a return on it in the form of collected usury.

As for the everlasting kingdom being like the description contained in both the parables of the Minas and the Talents, I too do not believe that the Everlasting Kingdom will be like this. Usury will not be a part of that kingdom.

You then go on to tell me that Jesus is describing the kingdom of heaven at the time of His return. That depends on when we individually believe when Jesus' second advent occurs. Both of the parables of the Minas and the Talents spans a long period of time while the master is away during which time he claims that he will receive a kingdom, which we know is a lie, and we know that Satan is a liar. The master in both of these parable will go away in our near future, and then return after a thousand years have passed, and when he comes back, according to the Minas parable he will then kill all of those who do not want him to be their king over them.

Now your understanding of these parables does not upset me at all, but your expressed understanding does sadden me as it paints the picture that when the man comes back, which you claim is Jesus, that Jesus will then kill all of the people who do not want Him to be their Lord and King. This just does not sound like Jesus to me.

Shalom.

Christ told them the parable for a stated reason, that being bc they thought they were about to get paid, just like most believers today are looking for a payday too i guess

 

[Dave L]

The righteousness of God will never reside in us. God is infinite, we are finite. But here's how we end up having the righteousness of God.

God imputed Adam's sin to us. Then God Imputed our sin to Christ. And then God Imputed Christ's righteousness to us. All according to Paul in Romans 5. Jesus is God, so we now have the infinite righteousness of God worthy of all the blessings only God deserves!! While we work on our own finite righteousness through holy living.

“God made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that in him we would become the righteousness of God.” (2 Corinthians 5:21)

 

[Helen]

I'm sorry that my understanding of the parable upsets you. I have said I do not even believe it is about money at all. And I'm sorry for men who you have seen misuse the verse to justify their greed.

I do not believe that is what the everlasting kingdom will be like. I just read it again. Jesus is saying: at that time the kingdom of heaven will be like...So "at that time" to me, means at His return.

........:cool: Yep..AMEN agree here..... well said...

 

[bbyrd009]

For those who have become a bit confused over these two parables (The Parable of the Talents and The Parable of the Pounds) we have covered both on our blog post located on this site. Just follow the link.

wadr who is "we?" ty

 

[Helen]

The righteousness of God will never reside in us. God is infinite, we are finite. But here's how we end up having the righteousness of God.

God imputed Adam's sin to us. Then God Imputed our sin to Christ. And then God Imputed Christ's righteousness to us. All according to Paul in Romans 5. Jesus is God, so we now have the infinite righteousness of God worthy of all the blessings only God deserves!! While we work on our own finite righteousness through holy living.

“God made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that in him we would become the righteousness of God.” (2 Corinthians 5:21)

Yes...Good post.