The Road to Life is Norrow?

[aspen]

I do have a sneaky suspicion that God is going to redeem His entire creation. How can he not? He will not be defeated by evil!

 

[Caffus]

Also Prism....no it was not fiar for our Savoir to die for us...but it was a way for him to show his love and He choose to do it that way. He is God ...He can do ANYTHING He wants to.

Aspen2..I think you are probably right and How betiful and Gloriouse that will be......Jesus our Lord siad as he was dieing on the cross.."Father Forgive them for they know NOT what they do"....they were killing God...God's son Jesus. God will answer Gods prayer....Prism God is not into sending his creation to eternal torment for something they do not understand. HE LOVES US...all of HIS Creation. I belive we will all be given the chance to fully understand the truth, which really honestly cant be done in this life ..as far as I can tell......and then..if anyone still does not accept and belive..wethier after or before this short life on earth......then God will allow them to perish... no longer exist...by there choice. Then agian...I say I do not claim this is the truth I am only a ingorant human when compared to my Holy all knowing God.

 

[aspen]

I dream about salvation all the time.......we will be married to Jesus....sublime.

 

[thisistheendtimes]

It is true that ON THE CROSS, the FLESH of all human beings was "PURIFIED" ("all flesh shall see salvation"/purification of "the flesh").


Hebrews 1:3.....when He had "made PURIFICATION for sins" (this is purification OF THE FLESH).

If we let God's holy Spirit teach us how to DO THINGS RIGHT, then our CONSCIENCE will BE CLEAR EVERY DAY,............the result will be that God's eternal spirit (The Holy Spirit) will have purified our CONSCIENCE.

Hebrews 9:14 "purify your conscience"....the "SONS of God"/sons of the most high that desire to "draw near" will not just have the goal of having their FLESH purified, but also their CONSCIENCE.

The Israelites received purification for "sins" ("10 commandment violations") by ritualistically sacrificing "bulls and goats", etc......Now, JESUS is the sacrificial "LAMB" provided by The Heavenly Father (Jesus is the EVERLASTING "sin sacrifice" "Lamb of God" purification for US who have also been given God's Spirit,......the Israelites didn't have JESUS and The Spirit.

John 7:39 "for as yet the Spirit had not been given".

Jesus freed us, the modern worshiper (the "TRUE worshiper" that will not worship PHYSICALLY on a holy mountain or in temples, but will worship SPIRITUALLY according to TRUTH) from the Jewish law of commandments that Moses brought down from the mountain (Moses also made many rules,.....called "ordinances",.......MOSAIC LAW is the combination of the two).

"by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and ordinances" (Ephesians 2:15).

John 4:23 "worship IN SPIRIT and TRUTH".

Only "SONS" of God that have had their conscience purified also will receive an inheritance, those who only have purified FLESH and never learned from God's Spirit will not have an "INHERITANCE".

Know God as "Abba Father" instead of "Master".....

Romans 8:15
"but you have received the spirit of sonship. When we cry, "Abba! Father!".

The traditional teachings don't teach that our goal should be COMPLETE salvation, nor do they teach "PURIFICATION" from the law that MOSES THE "MAN" made. Neither did the ministers ever provide the explanation that Jesus takes the place of "bulls and goats".

The modern day "moneychangers" have neglected their sacred duty to lead us properly (no matter how well meaning any of them are, they will answer to God for what they have done).

"For it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins" (Hebrews 10:4)....

......the old purification was no more soul re-deeming than a GESTURE (we can't actually be DEEMED "perfect"/good (only GOD alone is good/PERFECT), so God RE-deemed us so we would be fit for His heaven

"GOOD" is an "absolute", it means "PERFECT", we can only practice/perform goodNESS.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=street+called+Straight&t=RSV&sf=5


All verses are from the RSV.

 

[brightmorningstar]

aspen2,

I do have a sneaky suspicion that God is going to redeem His entire creation. How can he not? He will not be defeated by evil!

If He did He would be lying, as He has said some wont be redeemed. What makes you think He will, your own opinion?

There are plenty of verses that imply all will be saved and plenty that specifically say all will not. What universalism and liberalism does is ignore the specific ones and use the implied ones. But they do this for everything that needs to conform to their own religion.

 

[Caffus]

Birght, use could be right too...but can you tell me how you know every word in "The Holy Bible" is "Gods Word"? It was retranslated so many times in so many differant tounges, and by humans....it was also humans who decided which books to put in there. When I pray, I can often feel pure love and peace....and still I know we can not go by feelings ethier...people of many differant religons also have these feelings at times...and other times we can feel as though we are talking to the wall.

 

[aspen]

aspen2,
If He did He would be lying, as He has said some wont be redeemed. What makes you think He will, your own opinion?

There are plenty of verses that imply all will be saved and plenty that specifically say all will not. What universalism and liberalism does is ignore the specific ones and use the implied ones. But they do this for everything that needs to conform to their own religion.

I am not a universalist. I believe some will resist redemption. but I hope I am wrong.

 

[[email protected]]

Too many people try and judge God by human standards...

It is not guidance they seek, but approval.

 

[aspen]

It is not guidance they seek, but approval.

I agreed with you on another thread that people do seek approval - it is the result of our fallen state. The good news is that Christ is teaching His people to look to Him for their approval (justification) and then learn to love Him and others because He loved us first (sanctification). Therefore, it should not be a surprise or even a frustration for Christians to encounter nonbelievers seeking their approval everywhere, but God.

 

[brightmorningstar]

aspen2,

I am not a universalist. I believe some will resist redemption. but I hope I am wrong.

Then it sounds like by definition you are a universalist. The question is not whether some may resist temptation but whether some will face eternal death. The scripture indicates the resistance to redemption is during ones lifetime where one hears the gospel sufficiently and rejects it. ie as in Lazarus and the rich man

For me, IMO many non-believers will be redeemed when they get the chance to hear the gospel at judgement and the difficulty will come to those of use who have heard and in fact rejected the gospel because we didnt agree with aspects of it or failed to seek to do it. but thats just my interpretation of teh scripture.

 

[Caffus]

Well if there is a being that would reject Gods love knowingly....and would rather choose eternal torment..., knowingly...who would do that? They would have to be filled with Evil and hate for everyone including them selfs...why allow such evil to exist forever?

 

[aspen]

aspen2,
Then it sounds like by definition you are a universalist. The question is not whether some may resist temptation but whether some will face eternal death. The scripture indicates the resistance to redemption is during ones lifetime where one hears the gospel sufficiently and rejects it. ie as in Lazarus and the rich man

For me, IMO many non-believers will be redeemed when they get the chance to hear the gospel at judgement and the difficulty will come to those of use who have heard and in fact rejected the gospel because we didnt agree with aspects of it or failed to seek to do it. but thats just my interpretation of teh scripture.

Hell is a place for people who have rejected Christ's redemption to go. Hell is going to contain many people who are going to be in torment because they are without God, not because God is torturing them. Universalists believe that all people will be redeemed - I do not believe this idea is true.

There is nothing in the Bible that tells us that we will have a second chance at the Judgment.

Well if there is a being that would reject Gods love knowingly....and would rather choose eternal torment..., knowingly...who would do that? They would have to be filled with Evil and hate for everyone including them selfs...why allow such evil to exist forever?

Lucifer. Yes. All unredeemed people will be filled with self-loathing and hatred for neighbor.

I am not sure it is a question of why allow such evil to exist for ever - I think it is an issue of making a choice to be redeemed or not.

 

[Caffus]

Geuss we'll all find out...when we get to the other side.

Then agian...it is never fair or just to be held accountable for making a choice in ingorance...which before death we are all ingnorant.

 

[aspen]

Geuss we'll all find out...when we get to the other side.

Then agian...it is never fair or just to be held accountable for making a choice in ingorance...which before death we are all ingnorant.

I think God has revealed Himself to the world. I also think He is just and wants to be in relationship with us - He is not going to send anyone to Hell that does not want to be separated from Him.

 

[Caffus]

He has revealed hissef in His creation...but not enough so we can understand all the ways of the afterlife. And not enough so that we would all belive In Jesus as God...not enough so that the people that were there killing Jesus would know what they were doing, which is why Jesus siad Father forgive them for they KNOW NOT what they do. I am not afriad I will go to hell..I dont care what anyone says.I trust Jesus as my Savoir...and I love Him....my concern is for OTHERS who do not belive.

 

[Caffus]

Jesus taught us to love others as ourselves. He taught us to love even our enemies. He taught us to forgive. Our God is a God who works through the ages and His love never fails. These truths will never change. As far as the norrow gate to life and the broad road to destruction...many throughout church history have believed in destruction, few have believed in Life. Some will be first and some will be last.
He is the Way the Truth and the Life , no man comes to the Father but trough Him. Jesus was Love our Father is Love. Our Father sent His Son to redeem us and conquer sin and death. Jesus said "And if I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto me."
I no longer need to worry about others, I know God is Sovereign and He loves them even more than I do. The Truth has set me free.
1 Corinthians 15:22 -23 "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order.
Here is a very good Biblical site
<ahref="http://www.mercifultruth.com">www.mercifultruth.com</a>

 

[pom2014]

Well if there is a being that would reject Gods love knowingly....and would rather choose eternal torment..., knowingly...who would do that? They would have to be filled with Evil and hate for everyone including them selfs...why allow such evil to exist forever?

They're many that reject grace and not be evil.

People that don't believe there is or a need for a god are some and many are ethical and would not break the law unless it was justified.

Others simply believe in another god or gods. Live their lives within the laws of their region and have done good things.

Still others have read scripture and saw what followers do and cannot by their actions justify belief or trust on God because if he is unable to deal with his own people, then how can he make good on his promises.

And some read the Bible see a conflict between the old testament God and the new testament one. That inconsistency then makes them question God.

There are so many reasons not to trust God when you look at him with just your own point of view. They are not evil people, just they can't see clearly.

 

[ATP]

And so I can not understand everlasting torment for any being, comming from a God like my Jesus who loved sinners and sat and ate with them in love not caring what the religouse poeple thought.

Hi Caffus. Eternal conscious torment does not exist. God only gives immortality to believers. In regards to Matt 7, this passage refers to salvation in Christ. Jesus is describing two gates, the gate to death Job 38:17 NIV, Psalm 107:18 NIV, Isa 38:10 NIV, Matt 16:18 NIV and the gate to heaven and eternal life Matt 7:14 NIV, Matt 22:14 NIV, Luke 13:22-30 NIV, John 10:9 NIV, John 14:6 NIV...(Matt 7:13-14 NIV “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.)

The word "destruction" refers to the spirit of the antichrist...(2 Thess 2:3 NIV Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.)

Also, the word "perish" refers to nonbelievers...(John 3:16 NIV For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.)

- ATP

 

[Butch5]

I'm sorry...I dont know were this passage is in the Bible..but I know it is there. What I grew up beliving was that it means most people go to hell.
I have struggled with this during my life and the idea of hell and it even for a year or so cuased me to loose my fiath completly.
I still can not understand it, but I have accepted that I must trust that God is all loving with an ever lasting uncondistional love.
He is just.
But hell seems like something no human would be evil enough to subject someone to for any reason.
And so I can not understand everlasting torment for any being, comming from a God like my Jesus who loved sinners and sat and ate with them in love not caring what the religouse poeple thought.

Hi Caffus,

No worries, the Bible doesn't teach that God will torment people forever. Paul said the wages of sin is death, not eternal torment.

 

[Caffus]

Thank you all, but I now believe Gods love never fails,like the Bible says. I have read 100s of verses supporting the fact that Jesus is the Savoir of the world. The Bible makes much more sense now. We are all saved..but not at the same time. Our Father works through the agese to complete His will for the salvation of all. Few ever find Life in this age. But there are more to come. For all died through Adam but in Christ all will be made alive. The word Sheol means place of the dead or grave. It has been translated as grave, pit and hell. It means place of the dead, not hell. The word often mistranslated as eternal means "pertaining to ages"or of the ages. Try a literal translation like Youngs. Jesus is the Savoir of the world. This is the Good News.