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The Role of the Anti-Christ

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Trekson, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Active Member

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    I undewrstand what your saying but Retro doesnt.But dont let it get you down .He doesnt understand me too.
    Ive read about how they made to themselves the shield of David to worship but its not called that in scripture.
    But it certainly is described to a tee though isnt it.:)
     
  2. lawrance

    lawrance New Member

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    I have a Hebrew sir name and my eldest brother is just like Retro ranting, and the fact is they can't see it. thank God my younger brother can understand where i am coming from.
    Big bro gets so wound up he can't see where we are coming from and accuses us of all pathetic stupid stuff and little bro and i just look at one another shaking our heads, thinking 'O' no he's lost the plot.

    I agree with veteran 100%
     
  3. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, veteran.

    Well, that's not true. Just look at the verses again. I've quoted for you from Psalm 89, 2 Chronicles 6-7, and Romans 11. Did no one read what I quoted?! I wrote seven lines of my own words. All the rest was GOD'S Word! I would suggest you learn these passages and take them to heart, because GOD DOES NOT CHANGE! HE REMAINS FAITHFUL! The Hebrew word is "chesed" and was translated as "lovingkindness" in the KJV. The concept behind the word is that GOD KEEPS HIS COVENANTS! Paul told us that God does not renig on His promises! He's not an "Indian giver!" And, the Jews ARE a part of national Isra'el! Y'hudah was a son of Isra'el! Therefore, they DO still have the promises of God!

    Yechezk'el is talking about the sons of Tsaadowq (Zadok), which means "righteousness" or "justice," just as Malkhiy-Tsedeq (Melchizedek) means "my King of Righteousness."

    And, it is an HONOR to serve in the House of God, regardless the job! They weren't being "punished!" Where'd you get a silly notion such as that?! They just couldn't serve in the office of cohen! Think, veteran, is it a "punishment" to serve in the motor pool? Or, is a GI still doing a necessary service for his country?

    What does God's word say about "menial tasks?"

    Ecclesiastes 9:10
    10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
    KJV


    Ephesians 6:5-8
    5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
    6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
    7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
    8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.
    KJV


    Colossians 3:22-24
    22 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:
    23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
    24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
    KJV


    Shalom, Mr. Rosenberger (and you, too, shilohsfoal).

    I'm truly sorry that YOU can't see the truth. I'm not ranting. As I said to veteran just now, I said all of seven lines. Everything else was a quotation of Scripture. If you have a problem with it, take it up with the Author!

    It may make for somewhat longer posts, but there's a REASON why I quote so much! It's good stuff to READ! You can read, can't you? GOD said He would be true to His promise to David, regardless how David's grandchildren behaved. He might have punished Isra'el and Y'hudah for a brief time, but He promised, ...

    Isaiah 57:15-18
    15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
    16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.
    17 For the iniquity of his covetousness was I wroth, and smote him: I hid me, and was wroth, and he went on frowardly in the way of his heart.
    18 I have seen his ways, and will heal him: I will lead him also, and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners.
    KJV


    Jeremiah 3:12-15
    12 Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the Lord; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger for ever.
    13 Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the Lord thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the Lord.
    14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
    15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.
    KJV


    It would be a good idea if you studied these verses carefully:

    Romans 11:26-27
    26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
    27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
    KJV


    Do you think Paul lightly wrote those words? Do you think he made a mistake? As I've said, read a version that will make it easier to read, such as the CJB or even the NIV and READ chapters 9 through 11 in Romans! Feel Paul's heart toward His fellow Isra'elis, his brethren in the flesh! What is the covenant that God makes with the house of Jacob, Isra'el? It IS worded correctly just as it is written!
     
  4. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Active Member

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    Sounds like Retro believes everyone decended of Israel are Israel.
    He thinks if they are in Israel they will be saved even though they are not the sons of God.
    He quotes Romans 11;26-27 and thinks God makes a covenant with all them even though verse 27 says he makes a covenant with them who sins are taken away.
    And we know if they dont believe in Jesus and the gospel then thier sins are not taken away.
    Cause they dont even accept the sacrifice the Son of God made for thier sins.

    Romans 11:26-27
    26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
    27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


    Retro .If you going to quote a verse then tell soimeone else theyshould study it,dont you think you should understand it first .
    Giod maks a covenant with the people who sins are taken away.
    Not the people who are left in thier sin.




    Romans
    9 I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it through the Holy Spirit— [sup]2 [/sup]I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. [sup]3 [/sup]For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race, [sup]4 [/sup]the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. [sup]5 [/sup]Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised![sup][a][/sup] Amen.


    [sup]6 [/sup]It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. [sup]7 [/sup]Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[sup][b][/sup] [sup]8 [/sup]In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. [sup]9 [/sup]For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”[sup][c][/sup]
     
  5. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    What you're doing is speaking against what Apostle Paul himself revealed in Romans 11 about God having blinded Israel "in part" UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Paul shows that God has not forgotten the part of the seed of Israel that He Himself blinded so The Gospel could also go to the Gentiles, so His Salvation would be more full.

    Paul even warned us Gentile believers to not be wise in our own conceits about that (Rom.11:25). And since Paul was teaching this matter of their future Salvation from God's OT prophets, you would be wise to heed it as written, since God Himself declared it.
     
  6. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Active Member

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    No im not speaking against Paul .If you are trying to say I am then I want you to quote exacly what I said and quote what you claim Paul said and show me where what I said that contradicts Pauil.

    If you cant do that then you shouldnt have said anything to me.
     
  7. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    Tell you what you little smart ellic. You can answer to God Himself about it; I'll ask Him to show you.
     
  8. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, shilohsfoal.

    With all due respect to a brother, a child of God, you didn't do what I asked you to do. Without studying Romans 11:26-27 carefully, you are going to continue to make the same mistake over and over and over again! Look here: What you said may be true for Goyim (Gentiles), but it is NOT true about the children of Isra'el!

    When you said, "God makes a covenant with the people whose sins are taken away," you are implying that the sins are taken away FIRST and THEN God makes a covenant with them. That is EXACTLY BACKWARDS from how Paul put it!!! LOOK AT IT AGAIN ... CAREFULLY!!!

    Romans 11:26-27
    26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
    27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

    The Deliverer comes out of Tsiown (Zion, Sion) FIRST, and THEN He turns ungodliness away from Ya`aqov (Jacob)!!! What is His covenant unto "all Israel" or "Jacob?" The covenant IS "when I shall take away their sins!!!" THAT'S why I said that you should have studied it out FIRST! It's backwards from what you are used to and what you have been taught to believe! With the children of Isra'el, their Deliverer comes FIRST and THEN they have their sins taken away!

    That may not be what most Christians think, but it is the way things will be for the children of Isra'el! What's more, the resurrection will happen BEFORE their ungodliness is turned away! Now, that may not seem to make sense to you, but one must remember: They are FAMILY!!! They are MISHPACHAH! They are Avraham's (Abraham's) children and grandchildren and great grandchildren, however many times removed! They are Yitschaq's (Isaac's) children and grandchildren and great grandchildren, however many times removed! They are Ya`aqov's (Jacob's) or Yisra'el's (Israel's) children and grandchildren and great grandchildren, however many times removed! Do you think the words "all Israel shall be saved" is a typo? an exaggeration? a mistake? Then, READ IT AGAIN!!!


    And, here, you've quoted it correctly and interpreted it wrongly! READ WHAT YOU JUST WROTE!!! "I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race, [sup]4 [/sup]the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. [sup]5 [/sup]Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised!" The people of Isra'el - Paul's OWN RACE - his OWN PEOPLE - THEY possess the adoption to sonship! THEY possess the divine glory, the covenants, the reception of the Law, the Temple worship AND THE PROMISES!!! THEY possess the patriarchs! The patriarch are THEIR ancestors!!! And, it was from THEM that the human ancestry of the Messiah Yeshua` is traced!!! Do you get it, yet?!

    Brother, you're not reading well the very verses you quote! And, you didn't quote them far enough! (Also, the version you used, the NIV, is somewhat mixed up and/or misleading.)

    Romans 9:1-18
    9:1 I am speaking the truth — as one who belongs to the Messiah, I do not lie; and also bearing witness is my conscience, governed by the Ruach HaKodesh: 2 my grief is so great, the pain in my heart so constant, 3 that I could wish myself actually under God’s curse and separated from the Messiah, if it would help my brothers, my own flesh and blood, 4 the people of Isra’el! They were made God’s children, the Sh’khinah has been with them, the covenants are theirs, likewise the giving of the Torah, the Temple service and the promises; 5 the Patriarchs are theirs; and from them, as far as his physical descent is concerned, came the Messiah, who is over all. Praised be Adonai for ever! Amen.

    6 But the present condition of Isra’el does not mean that the Word of God has failed.

    For not everyone from Isra’el (i.e. the nation) is truly part of Isra’el (i.e. the man); 7 indeed, not all the descendants are seed of Avraham (2 Chronicles 20:7; Psalm 105:6); rather, “What is to be called your ‘seed’ will be in Yitz’chak.” (Genesis 21:12) 8 In other words, it is not the physical children who are children of God, but the children the promise refers to who are considered seed. 9 For this is what the promise said: “At the time set, I will come; and Sarah will have a son.” (Genesis 18:14) 10 And even more to the point is the case of Rivkah; for both her children were conceived in a single act with Yitz’chak, our father; 11 and before they were born, before they had done anything at all, either good or bad (so that God’s plan might remain a matter of his sovereign choice, not dependent on what they did, but on God, who does the calling), 12 it was said to her, “The older will serve the younger.” (Genesis 25:23) 13 This accords with where it is written, “Ya‘akov I loved, but Esav I hated.” (Malachi 1:2-3)

    14 So are we to say, “It is unjust for God to do this”? Heaven forbid! 15 For to Moshe he says, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will pity whom I pity.” (Exodus 33:19) 16 Thus it doesn’t depend on human desires or efforts, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Tanakh says to Pharaoh, “It is for this very reason that I raised you up, so that in connection with you I might demonstrate my power, so that my name might be known throughout the world.” (Exodus 9:16) 18 So then, he has mercy on whom he wants, and he hardens whom he wants.
    CJB


    Thus, Paul's point was not that Isra'el is "the children by physical descent" and believers are "the children of promise."

    His point was that "the children by physical descent," namely Ishma'el, Zimran, Yokshan, Medan, Midyan, Yishbak; and Shuach, were NOT the "children of promise."
    Only Yitschaq was the "child of promise!" And, it was only to him that Avraham's inheritance would go! The others were given a grant and sent off to live in Kedem in the east! (Gen. 25:1-6)

    Learn to understand the Scriptures that you read!
     
  9. lawrance

    lawrance New Member

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    Retro how many Jews are there nowdays that are not part Goy ? Non ! or maybe a hand full of inbreds.

    What you are pushing is just rubbish like Hitler's type of stupid racist claptrap garbage.

    Christ has come so give it up. as all of Israel are in Christ and the others are just lost Jews serving no true purpose but for the day when they wake up and will see who Christ is.

    There is nothing there in worshiping there god Remphan etc.

    And until that day comes i think you would be better looking to Jesus then just men.
     
  10. Trekson

    Trekson Well-Known Member

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    Hi Retro, Your words: "Do you think the words "all Israel shall be saved" is a typo? an exaggeration? a mistake? Then, READ IT AGAIN!!!"

    When you look at this promise in light of the rest of the prophetic scriptures we can only come to one conclusion, imo.

    When you consider the believing remnant, (the woman of Rev. 12:13-16) included with these are the 144,000 and then the Israelites who survive the sheep and goat judgments of Matt. 25 we see that this will be all that's left of Israel, thus it can truly be said that ALL Israel shall be saved.

    To believe that God is going to "magically" transform some unregenerate people just because they're decendants of Isaac is a little unrealistic.
     
  11. christiantc

    christiantc New Member

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    there are several areas i do not agree with you. take time to understand Daniel chapter 11 and 12. Muslim plays no role in the last days. look at the Daniels dream of the four beats and carry all that to revelation. i will definitely teach all this here http://www.christiantruthcenter.com/. But still realize that we have the spirit of the anti-Christ in place today. http://www.christiantruthcenter.com/the-antichrist
     
  12. JosyWales

    JosyWales New Member

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    There is one other aspect that you may not be taking into consideration.

    During the last times, it is not just the Beast and the False Prophet that will appear. Michael the Archangel will also appear on earth as prophisied in both Daniel 12 and Revelation 12. He will come as a man, just as Jesus did and as the Beast and the False Prophet will.

    This is going to cause a problem that most do not anticipate, for you see, it will not just be a situation where one must fight against the AntiChrist (thats right, no one is going poof in the air and making a gettaway) you will be forced to make a choice as to who the AntiChrist really is, for it will be easy for the evil to paint Michael as the bad guy, just as they did to Jesus. The AntiChrist will look more like mens idea of a religious figure (much as many TV preachers do today) because, when you are trying to fool people, it is easy to play the role they have been taught to expect you to play.

    If you are of God, then you will make the unpopular choice and be saved at the coming of the Lord Jesus, however it may cause you great trouble to do so (can someone say "Tribulation"?)
     
  13. Trekson

    Trekson Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Josy, Michael ain't comin' to earth, at least not before Christ does when he returns for armageddon.



    Hi christiantc, I believe I understand Dan. 11 &12 as well as anyone else and I see the moslem nations as the kings of the south, per Da. 11 and Rev. 16.
     
  14. us2are1

    us2are1 Son Of Man

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    These are the scriptures that teach about and define the antichrist. None of mans folly otherwise means anything.

    1 John 2
    17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
    18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

    22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
    23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

    1 John 4
    3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

    2 John 1
    7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
     
  15. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, Mr. Rosenberger.

    Nice to know that antisemitism is alive and well.

    Shalom, Trekson.

    EXCEPT, you are forgetting all the Isra'elites that will be raised to life. Z'kharyahu gave an interesting chain of events:

    Zechariah 12:1-14
    12:1 A prophecy, the word of Adonai concerning Isra’el — here is the message from Adonai, who stretched out the heavens, laid the foundation of the earth and formed the spirit inside human beings:

    2 “I will make Yerushalayim a cup
    that will stagger the surrounding peoples.
    Even Y’hudah will be caught up
    in the siege against Yerushalayim.
    3 When that day comes, I will make Yerushalayim
    a heavy stone for all the peoples.
    All who try to lift it will hurt themselves (get a hernia),
    and all the earth’s nations will be massed against her.
    4 When that day comes,” says Adonai,
    “I will strike all the horses with panic
    and their riders with madness;
    I will keep watch over Y’hudah,
    but I will strike blind all the horses of the peoples.
    5 The leaders of Y’hudah will say to themselves,
    ‘Those living in Yerushalayim are my strength
    through Adonai-Tzva’ot their God.’
    6 When that day comes,
    I will make the leaders of Y’hudah
    like a blazing fire pan in a pile of wood,
    like a fiery torch among sheaves of grain;
    they will devour all the surrounding peoples,
    on the right and on the left.
    Yerushalayim will be inhabited
    in her own place, Yerushalayim.
    7 Adonai will save the tents of Y’hudah first,
    so that the glory of the house of David
    and the glory of those living in Yerushalayim
    will not appear greater than that of Y’hudah.
    8 When that day comes, Adonai will defend
    those living in Yerushalayim.
    On that day, even someone who stumbles
    will be like David;
    and the house of David will be like God,
    like the angel of Adonai before them.

    9 “When that day comes, I will seek to destroy
    all nations attacking Yerushalayim;
    10 and I will pour out on the house of David
    and on those living in Yerushalayim
    a spirit of grace and prayer;
    and they will look to me, whom they pierced.”

    They will mourn for him
    as one mourns for an only son;
    they will be in bitterness on his behalf
    like the bitterness for a firstborn son.
    11 When that day comes, there will be
    great mourning in Yerushalayim,
    mourning like that for Hadad-Rimmon
    in the Megiddo Valley.
    12 Then the land will mourn,
    each family by itself —
    the family of the house of David by itself,
    and their wives by themselves;
    the family of the house of Natan by itself,
    and their wives by themselves;
    13 the family of the house of Levi by itself,
    and their wives by themselves;
    the family of the Shim‘i by itself,
    and their wives by themselves;
    14 all the remaining families, each by itself,
    and their wives by themselves.
    CJB


    This series of four names are NOT names of normally concurrent people. They are sequential, and they can also be found in this passage:

    Luke 3:23-38
    23 Yeshua was about thirty years old when he began his public ministry. It was supposed that he was a son of Yosef who was of Eli,
    24 of Mattat, of Levi, of Malki, of Yannai, of Yosef,
    25 of Mattityahu, of Amotz, of Nachum, of Hesli, of Naggai,
    26 of Machat, of Mattityahu, of Shim‘i, of Yosef, of Yodah,
    27 of Yochanan, of Reisha, of Z’rubavel, of Sh’altiel, of Neri,
    28 of Malki, of Addi, of Kosam, of Elmadan, of Er,
    29 of Yeshua, of Eli‘ezer, of Yoram, of Mattat, of Levi,
    30 of Shim‘on, of Y’hudah, of Yosef, of Yonam, of Elyakim,
    31 of Mal’ah, of Manah, of Mattatah, of Natan, of David,
    32 of Yishai, of ‘Oved, of Bo‘az, of Salmon, of Nachshon,
    33 of Amminadav, of Admin, of Arni, of Hetzron, of Peretz, of Y’hudah,
    34 of Ya‘akov, of Yitz’chak, of Avraham, of Terach, of Nachor,
    35 of S’rug, of Re‘u, of Peleg, of ‘Ever, of Shelah,
    36 of Keinan, of Arpakhshad, of Shem, of Noach, of Lemekh,
    37 of Metushelach, of Hanokh, of Yered, of Mahalal’el, of Keinan,
    38 of Enosh, of Shet, of Adam, of God.
    CJB


    The only way that these names could be concurrent is AFTER THE RESURRECTION!!!

    Therefore, the Resurrection had to have occurred BEFORE that portion of the prophecy could be fulfilled.

    So, the chain of events, according to this much of the prophecy includes:
    1. Yerushalayim (Jerusalem) will come under attack.
    2. The nations of the earth will come against her.
    3. Even Y'hudah (Judah) will get into the act, attempting to protect Yerushalayim.
    4. Then, Adonai (through His Representative, the Messiah Yeshua`) comes on the scene.
    5. He rescues the towns and villages of Y'hudah first so it doesn't look like favoritism for David's family.
    6. Then, He defends those living in Yerushalayim.
    7. He will seek to destroy all those nations who came against His people.
    8. He will pour out a spirit of supplication and prayer on His people.
    9. Then, they will look upon Him whom they pierced (Yeshua`).
    10. Then, they will mourn for Him as an only son, as one's firstborn son.

    The Resurrection of the Just will occur sometime before point 8 because these families participate in the last three points, points 8, 9, and 10. (I believe it will be between points 2 and 3.) Notice that these are stages within Yeshua`s lineage! Thus, the ones who are identified as those who would mourn for Yeshua` as "an only son" or as a "firstborn son" will be those from His own family lineage! Indeed, as a great grandson, He will actually be a descendant from their "only son," if they had only one son, or a descendant from their "firstborn son," if they had other sons!

    David and Natan (Nathan) show the direction of the lineage and when the 1st Temple was built, David having the dream and goal and supplying the materials and Shlomo (Solomon) actually building the Temple (957 B.C.); Leviy (Levi) shows who went into exile when the 1st Temple was destroyed (586 B.C.); and the Shim`i (Shimei) were a clan that returned from exile when the 2nd Temple was finished (c. 418 B.C., not 516 B.C.) at the time Zkharyahu delivered his prophecy, but "ALL the other families" also mourned for Him!

    Thus, with the Resurrection in play, it will be FAR more than you think!
     
  16. Trekson

    Trekson Well-Known Member

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    Hi Retro, No, I'm not forgetting about them because they won't be residents of earth. The earth will be for the physical. Those who have experienced death already and will have been resurrected will abide in heaven at least until the NJ comes down. While we may be able to travel back and forth in the blink of an eye, they won't be re-populating the earth. The millennium era is for physical humanity, not the church or the righteous ones of Israel. Tho the word teaches that some will rule and reign on earth, the vast majority of us will be in heaven and it will be far cooler then the earth.
     
  17. us2are1

    us2are1 Son Of Man

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    Show me "one scripture" where anyone is going to heaven without using your imagination.

    John 3
    13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

    Romans 10
    6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?' " (that is, to bring Christ down from above)

    besides this one.

    Revelation 11
    11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them.

    if you are not already in heaven then there is something wrong with your doctrine.

    No one has ever died and gone to heaven not even the thief on the cross. Those who have gone to heaven have ascended alive up into the air of earth.








    .
     
  18. Faithful

    Faithful New Member

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    Morning Trekson,

    I believe you are 'sincerely' reading too much into the above or repeating what you have been taught by another.
    Anti-Christ would mean to be against anything he taught and that means against anything the Father taught.
    In John 5:43, Jesus us speaking about 'authority'. He was not speaking of his own authority like the others. Speaking from his own personal self. God himself was the authority speaking through Christ.
    The people did not believe he was speaking for God. " He came unto his OWN and his own received him not."

    How would Satan do the above?
    The truth makes us free. The fact remains that Satan is not like God. He is not Omnipresent... not in all places at all times.
    The bible shows us that God alone is everywhere and nowehere in creation can we get away from him.
    Psalm 139. He knows the end from the beginning. But Satan doesn't he isn't in all places at once.

    God is Omnipotent. So God is all-powerful.

    There is nothing God cannot do. He brings down powerful nations. He was there in the miracles that our Lord Jesus
    performed. He is the creator of all men and the judge. He can subdue every force of evil by himself.
    Satan failed and has been judged already. He is not and never will be all-poewrful.

    God our Father is Omniscient. Knows everything.

    His knowledge is such that he tells us he fills heaven and earth. There is no plae hidden from his sight.
    He even knows our thoughts and the words weill utter before we speak them.
    Satan doesn't. God's knowledge is eternal and Satan proved with Christ that he is not the same as God
    and cannot produce anything even similar to God. Our God knows all our secret thoughts and desires
    but Satan doesn't.

    God is not a prisoner of time and space. He above all of the earthly things and he is unchanging and eternal.

    Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word, that proceeds from the mouth of God.


    2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
    [sup]2 [/sup]That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
    [sup]3 [/sup]Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    [sup]4 [/sup]Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    The temple of God is not a building it is people. The New covenant we see Christ says. " Tear down this temple and I will rebuild it in three days." Then Christ says' "
    [sup]20 [/sup]Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
    [sup]21 [/sup]Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
    [sup]22 [/sup]Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
    [sup]23 [/sup]But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
    [sup]24 [/sup]God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.



    [sup]5 [/sup]Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
    [sup]6 [/sup]And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
    [sup]7 [/sup]For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
    [sup]8 [/sup]And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
    [sup]9 [/sup]Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
    [sup]10 [/sup]And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    [sup]11 [/sup]And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


    The only way the anti-Christ can deceive people is if they do not have a love of God and therefore his truth.
    Whose power, signs and lying wonders?

    Revelation 13:2

    King James Version (KJV)

    [sup]2 [/sup]And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

    What authority, seat and power has Satan got?


    John 16:8-11

    King James Version (KJV)

    [sup]8 [/sup]And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
    [sup]9 [/sup]Of sin, because they believe not on me;
    [sup]10 [/sup]Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
    [sup]11 [/sup]Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.


    The true temple of God are those who are now the true worshippers who worship God in Spirit and Truth.
    Satan, already knows he can do nothing to these people. The gates of hell shall not prevail against the true Church.
    Christ said, "Do not fear those who kill the body but rather fear God, who after to death has the power to cast both body and soul into hell."
    Satans power relies on fears and lies.
    Revelation 13 (King James Version)


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    Revelation 13

    King James Version (KJV)
    13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
    [sup]2 [/sup]And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
    [sup]3 [/sup]And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
    [sup]4 [/sup]And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
    [sup]5 [/sup]And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
    [sup]6 [/sup]And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
    [sup]7 [/sup]And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
    [sup]8 [/sup]And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
    [sup]9 [/sup]If any man have an ear, let him hear.
    [sup]10 [/sup]He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
    [sup]11 [/sup]And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
    [sup]12 [/sup]And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
    [sup]13 [/sup]And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
    [sup]14 [/sup]And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
    [sup]15 [/sup]And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

    The choice is life or death. Christ or the anti-Christ? Love is the way of Christ and they have nothing to fear from death.
    But the way of the anti-Christ is a forced choice from fear and deception. Do as he says and live but lose your life.
    If you want to save your life you will lose it. But if you lose your life for Christ you will save it.

    We all have choices for good and bad. To love God is trust him and what he tells us.
    To obey his word.
    A love of truth can save people. Tell them the truth that they should choose God and life.
     
  19. lawrance

    lawrance New Member

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    Retro. i think you should say anti works of man, that is where i am coming from.
    You must be rejecting Christ i think. as the fact is, Christ is the only way as there is no other.
    All people have to come to Christ, end of story.
     
  20. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, veteran.

    Yochanan simply meant that there were already people in the first century against the idea that the Messiah had come in the flesh, that Yeshua` is that Messiah, and that He is the Son of God.

    That's all.
     
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