The Role of the Anti-Christ

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shilohsfoal

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There are some in Israel that do not worship the beast or his image though.They will not recieve the mark of the beast.
They will be killed for the witness of Jesus as it is written.

Mathew 23;34
Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:


Revelation 20;
[sup]4 [/sup]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


They shall not have gone over all the cities of Israel till Jesus comes.

Mathew 10;23
But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

You're watching entirely too much TV politics shilohsfoal.

Im not into politics veteran .Im into scripture.
I dont even vote and truthfully I could care less about all politicians.
 

Foreigner

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Shilohsfoal,

Almost every President since FDR and absolutely every single one since Reagan has been predicted to be the Anti-Christ.

Those that say so are just as passionate as you are and misuse scripture just as much as you do.

Get help, dude. Seriously.
 

shilohsfoal

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Shilohsfoal,

Almost every President since FDR and absolutely every single one since Reagan has been predicted to be the Anti-Christ.

Those that say so are just as passionate as you are and misuse scripture just as much as you do.

Get help, dude. Seriously.

You need help from God to understand but you dont ask for any..
There has always been republicans who call democrats the antchrist and visa versa.
Im not repub or demo.I have given this board solid proof in the Daniel 11 texts to back up every claim Ive made and any one of you can compare history to those texts and see I have told the truth.
No one claiming that a former president was the antichrist has ever done that because they couldnt.
But not only have I done so I have also showed this board the blasphemy of Mitt Romneys religion and have showd this board the one person in the entire world who claims to be the head of the church and the prophet of God.
There is no other living person claiming to be the mouthpiece of God.Not even the pope goes so far as to claim that none can enter heaven without his blessing.Yet the mormon president does and you people turn a blind eye to his claims.
Now you have a man who is considerd a high priest in the order of Melchizedek by his church about to become the most powerful man i the world .You are blind.Youi need help to see .You have eyes to see and see not.
 

veteran

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The U.S. President is not the most powerful man in the world shilohsfoal. The international banking cartel gives him his orders, and has done so ever since they establsihed the Federal Reserve system and international banks to control the economies of the nations. He can only be one of the "many antichrists", but not the "antichrist" that is to come.
 

shilohsfoal

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The U.S. President is not the most powerful man in the world shilohsfoal. The international banking cartel gives him his orders, and has done so ever since they establsihed the Federal Reserve system and international banks to control the economies of the nations. He can only be one of the "many antichrists", but not the "antichrist" that is to come.

The US president is the most powerful man in the world commading the most powerful millitary the world has ever seen .You acan argue all you want against this fact but you cant change it.Mitt Romney shall be commander if chief .Not the international banking cartel.
And it is Mitt romney who shall soon be the king of the north.
The international banking cartel will never be the king of the north.

The beast


Rev 17;8
The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.

John wrote of a beast that once existsed before 100 AD but did not exist at that time.
He wrote that it would yet exist once more and this is history of that beast.


Rev17;10-11
And there are seven kings;five are fallen, and one is,and the other is not yet come;and when he cometh,he must continue a short space.And the beast that was,and is not,even he is the eighth ,and is of the seven,and goeth into perdition.

The seven kings that have reigned over Israel
Five that were fallen.
Egypt,Assyrian,Babylon,Persia,and Macedonia.
One that was at the time John wrote this-Rome.

Then came the Dispora

The one who would come and continue a short space,who the people of Israel were gatherd under-
Great britian.
The eighth is that kingdom that once was,then was not when John wrote this,but now is again today.
The kingdom that calls itself by the name of Israel.





Five kings from the west.
Macedinia,Roman,Byzantine,Ottoman and Great Britian


Daniel 8;8
Therefore the he goat waxed great; and when he was strong,the great horn was broken;and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven

Out of Great Britian came the country that calls itself Israel.

Daniel 8;9
And out of one of them came forth a little horn,which waxed exeedingly great,toward the south,and toward the east,and toward the pleasant land.

Israel declared its indepedence from Great Britian may 14,1948.

.Beasts of the east.
Babylon

Daniel 7;4
The first was like a lion,and had eagle's wings;I beheld till the wings therof were plucked,and it was lifted up from the earth,and made to stand upon the feet as a man,and a man's heart was given to it.
Persia
Daniel 7;5
And behold another beast,a second,like to a bear,and it raised up itself on one side,and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it;and they said thus unto it,Arise,devour much flesh.
Sassanid,Caliphate,Seljuk and Salidin
Daniel 7;6
After this I beheld,and lo another,like a leopard,which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl;the beast had also four heads;and dominion was given to it.
Independent muslim states.
Daniel 7;7
After this I saw in the night visions,and behold a forth beast,dreadful and terrible and strong exeedingly;and it had great iron teeth;it devoured and brake in pieces,and stamped the residue with the feet of it;and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it;and it had ten horns.
Israel
Daniel 7;8
I considerd the horns,and behold,there came up amoung them another little horn,before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots;and,behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man,and a mouth speaking great things.
Daniel 7;20
And of the ten horns that were in his head,and of the other which came up,and before whom three fell;even of that horn that had eyes,and a mouth that spake very great things,whose look was more stout than his fellows.

The six day war,Israel subdued Egypt ,Syria and Jordan.
Daniel 7;24
And the ten horns out of this kingdom [are] ten kings [that] shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings

Daniel 7;23-25
23 "He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.

Mathew 23;34
Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and [some] of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [some] of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [them] from city to city:

Daniel 7;7
After this I saw in the night visions,and behold a forth beast,dreadful and terrible and strong exeedingly;and it had great iron teeth;it devoured and brake in pieces,and stamped the residue with the feet of it;and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it;and it had ten horns.

David lists the ten in Psalms 83 as follows.
Psalms 83;5-8
5 With one mind they plot together;
they form an alliance against you—
6 the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites,
of Moab and the Hagrites,
7 Byblos, Ammon and Amalek,
Philistia, with the people of Tyre.
8 Even Assyria has joined them
to reinforce Lot’s descendants.

The ten gave Palestine unto the beast(the Israeli goverment) till the word of God shall be finished.

Rev 17;17
For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Today That beast with those ten reign over the promised kingdom.

That kingdom shall be destroyed and given to the saints of the most high.

Daniel 7
25And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 26But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. 27And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Mathew 8;11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.



Rev 13;3
One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast.

The small nation seemed to have been killed but It lives again.
The jews of the world were astonished when it became a nation again and followed it from all over the world.


The city that is over the kingdom Is Jerusalem (the wh*re)and the waters where sit sits are people multitudes ,nations and tongues.
Rev 17;15
And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the wh*re sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

That is a very good discription of the nation of immigrants from many nations.
Here are the demographics of Israel copied from wikipedia-

Languages
Main article: Languages of Israel
Israel has two official languages, Hebrew and Arabic.[1] Hebrew is the primary language of the state and is spoken by the majority of the population, and Arabic is spoken by the Arab minority. Many Israelis communicate reasonably well in English, as many television programs are broadcast in this language and English is taught from the early grades in elementary school. As a country of immigrants, many languages can be heard on the streets. Due to mass immigration from the former Soviet Union and Ethiopia (some 120,000 Ethiopian Jews live in Israel),[316] Russian and Amharic are widely spoken.[317] Between 1990 and 1994, the Russian immigration increased Israel's population by twelve percent.[318] Out of more than one million Russian-speaking immigrants in Israel,[319] about 300,000 are considered gentile by the Orthodox rabbinate, because, under the Orthodox interpretation, only children to Jewish mothers are considered Jews, while the Law of Return accepts those with Jewish fathers, grandparents, and spouses.[320][321]


Jerusalem is responsible for ALL the righteous blood shed upon earth.

Rev 18;24
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Mathew 23;35
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Revelation 17;16

And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the wh*re, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Psalms 83;5-8
#1 the tents of Edom
#2 Ishmaelites,
#3 Moab
#4 Hagrites,
#5 Byblos,
#6 Ammon
#7 Amalek,
#8 Philistia,
#9 Tyre.
#10 Assyria

After they have burned the wh*re the Lord shall fight against them.


Psalms 83;9-12
9 Do to them as you did to Midian,
as you did to Sisera and Jabin at the river Kishon,
10 who perished at Endor
and became like dung on the ground.
11 Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb,
all their princes like Zebah and Zalmunna,
12 who said, "Let us take possession
of the pasturelands of God."

Zechariah 14;3
Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Rev 17;14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful.

After the beast and those ten are romoved the saints inherit the promised land.

Daniel 7;27
And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom [is] an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Mathew 8;11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Ezekiel 39;27
27When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

1000 years after the beast is destroyed and the saints have recieved the kingdom,Gog comes to the land of Israel to possess the land but none can take it away from the saints.

Rev 20;7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
 

veteran

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The US president is the most powerful man in the world commading the most powerful millitary the world has ever seen .You acan argue all you want against this fact but you cant change it.Mitt Romney shall be commander if chief .Not the international banking cartel.
And it is Mitt romney who shall soon be the king of the north.
The international banking cartel will never be the king of the north.

You're right, the international banking cartel will never be the prophesied 'king of the north'. That role is reserved for only one entity, and it ain't Romney. But that international cartel is the makers of kings today, preparing the whole world for their 'king', their 'rock'.


The beast


Rev 17;8
The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.

John wrote of a beast that once existsed before 100 AD but did not exist at that time.
He wrote that it would yet exist once more and this is history of that beast.

Rev17;10-11
And there are seven kings;five are fallen, and one is,and the other is not yet come;and when he cometh,he must continue a short space.And the beast that was,and is not,even he is the eighth ,and is of the seven,and goeth into perdition.

The seven kings that have reigned over Israel
Five that were fallen.
Egypt,Assyrian,Babylon,Persia,and Macedonia.
One that was at the time John wrote this-Rome.

Agreed so far. But Revelation speaks of TWO beasts, not just one. The first beast is a kingdom over all nations; the second beast of Rev.13:11 forward is about the beast king idea of Rev.17. The 6th was in John's days; the 7th yet to come.


Then came the Dispora

The one who would come and continue a short space,who the people of Israel were gatherd under-
Great britian.
The eighth is that kingdom that once was,then was not when John wrote this,but now is again today.
The kingdom that calls itself by the name of Israel.

No. The Ottoman Empire (Turks) took Jerusalem after Rome. That's who the British defeated in WWI, which then began the implementing of the Balflour Declaration, a return for the Jews back to Jerusalem, also called Zionism. The Jews originated that plan by using Britain's power to make it happen. The establishing of the state of Israel in 1948 was by God's promise per Jeremiah 24. It's because God had promised for David that He would always leave one tribe in Jerusalem per 1 Kings 11, pointing to Judah.

What you're failing to see is how God is allowing the Orthodox Jews to try and established His Kingdom on earth today in Jerusalem, without His Son coming to establish it de facto. The unbelieving Jews are ignorant of that, but many of them are still His chosen people.

The 7th king that is to come, which will continue a short space, is the coming pseudo-Christ which our Lord Jesus warned of in Matt.24 and Mark 13, pulling from the Book of Daniel. It will be a specific person, not a whole nation.


Five kings from the west.
Macedinia,Roman,Byzantine,Ottoman and Great Britian

Daniel 8;8
Therefore the he goat waxed great; and when he was strong,the great horn was broken;and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven

Out of Great Britian came the country that calls itself Israel.

Daniel 8;9
And out of one of them came forth a little horn,which waxed exeedingly great,toward the south,and toward the east,and toward the pleasant land.

Israel declared its indepedence from Great Britian may 14,1948.

It would appear that you have some reason to hate Great Britain, when you should not. They are God's people, and not the beast of Revelation. The state of Israel received its independence through the U.N. Charter vote, not from Britain solely. The U.N. established its borders, and still control its borders today.

The "little horn" and "vile person" of Daniel is not the nation of Britain, nor any other nation. Per past history, Antiochus IV from Syria in 170 B.C. took Jerusalem, desolated the inside of the Jerusalem temple, and setup an idol for false worship. He fit the "abomination of desolation" event per Daniel almost to a tee. Yet our Lord Jesus gave the "abomination of desolation" prophecy from Daniel around 200 years after Antiochus had died, showing us that Antiochus IV fit the pattern of the "little horn" and "vile person", but that we are to look for another still.


.Beasts of the east.
Babylon
Daniel 7;4
The first was like a lion,and had eagle's wings;I beheld till the wings therof were plucked,and it was lifted up from the earth,and made to stand upon the feet as a man,and a man's heart was given to it.
Persia
Daniel 7;5
And behold another beast,a second,like to a bear,and it raised up itself on one side,and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it;and they said thus unto it,Arise,devour much flesh.
Sassanid,Caliphate,Seljuk and Salidin
Daniel 7;6
After this I beheld,and lo another,like a leopard,which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl;the beast had also four heads;and dominion was given to it.
Independent muslim states.
Daniel 7;7
After this I saw in the night visions,and behold a forth beast,dreadful and terrible and strong exeedingly;and it had great iron teeth;it devoured and brake in pieces,and stamped the residue with the feet of it;and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it;and it had ten horns.
Israel
Daniel 7;8
I considerd the horns,and behold,there came up amoung them another little horn,before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots;and,behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man,and a mouth speaking great things.
Daniel 7;20
And of the ten horns that were in his head,and of the other which came up,and before whom three fell;even of that horn that had eyes,and a mouth that spake very great things,whose look was more stout than his fellows.


In Daniel 2, we're shown how all 5 pieces of the beast image will be together for the last beast kingdom on earth. So that is pointing to all the historical beast kingdoms joined under one together with the 5th one, the one of feet and toes of iron mixed with clay. It's that final 5th one that our Lord Jesus is going to come and strike upon its feet, and cause the whole beast image to come tumbling down. That is the "one world government" system that's been planned for over a century now by the world controllers, i.e., the money powers. That's who is going to setup the 10 kings for the end, in prep for the 7th beast king, the angel of the bottomless pit (Rev.9). That has yet to occur today.



The six day war,Israel subdued Egypt ,Syria and Jordan.
Daniel 7;24
And the ten horns out of this kingdom [are] ten kings [that] shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings

Daniel 7;23-25
23 "He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.

All that is still about the final world government that's to take control over all the earth for the tribulation that's coming. That's when the 10 kings of Rev.17 will be established in power over the earth, along with the 7th beast king in Jerusalem. Those are tribulation time events which have not yet begun.


Mathew 23;34
Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and [some] of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [some] of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [them] from city to city:

That is especially a tribulation time event for the near future.



Daniel 7;7
After this I saw in the night visions,and behold a forth beast,dreadful and terrible and strong exeedingly;and it had great iron teeth;it devoured and brake in pieces,and stamped the residue with the feet of it;and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it;and it had ten horns.

David lists the ten in Psalms 83 as follows.
Psalms 83;5-8
5 With one mind they plot together;
they form an alliance against you—
6 the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites,
of Moab and the Hagrites,
7 Byblos, Ammon and Amalek,
Philistia, with the people of Tyre.
8 Even Assyria has joined them
to reinforce Lot’s descendants.

The ten gave Palestine unto the beast(the Israeli goverment) till the word of God shall be finished.

Rev 17;17
For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Today That beast with those ten reign over the promised kingdom.

The final beast kingdom is not yet established today, but is near. Per the 5 pieces of the beast image, that will involve all the previous beast kingdoms of history, which includes the areas of the old Roman empire. So the Muslim nations only thing from Ps.83 is the old working, not the latter working, though they will be included against Israel.

And that's the point you have direly missed, they are all... against Israel. Yet you have Israel as part of their working to destroy!
 

shilohsfoal

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The "role of antichrist" is simple. Deny the Father by denying Jesus came in the flesh,and that Christ is anything other than as defined and described by NT canon.

And your the only person in this thread that has kept the word antichrist in the context John wrote.
"denys christ came in the flesh"
"denys Jesus is the Christ"

There is a religion called Judaism and every single member of that religion denies Jesus as the Christ as described in he NT.
And they have a kingdom as well with the symbol of thier Judaism as its national symbol.
 

shilohsfoal

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The false prophet has anounced that he shall move the tabernacle of his palace to Jerusalem just as the scripture says he will.

[sup]Daniel 11;45 [/sup]And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/romneys-pledge-to-move-the-us-embassy-to-jerusalem/2012/07/30/gJQAxVFQLX_blog.html?wprss=rss_fact-checker

And that's the point you have direly missed, they are all... against Israel. Yet you have Israel as part of their working to destroy!

It would be nice if you just learned who Israel is .
You might even be able to understand if you understood that one thing.

Israel is a name given to a man who had overcome.
.
Exodus 4;22
Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son,

Sure would be nice to speak with soomeone who knew who the son of God is.

The ten nations mentioned in Psalms 83 who fight against God's first born son are the same ten nations who fight against God's first born son in revelation

Revelation 17;14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful..
 

shilohsfoal

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What does the part "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come,..." mean? (1 John 2:18).

All you have to do is take a look in Israel taday to find that answer.

[sup]18 [/sup]Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
[sup]19 [/sup]They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.



Many people say that christianity came out of Judaism.They would claim it is a branch of Judaism.
But this is not the truth.The prophets of old testified of Christ just as the apostles did,.
The gospel and the apostles such as John was a continuation of that which had already been preached.

So its not christianity which came out of Judaism.It was judaism which parted from christianity.
Even the holy prophets would agree that those antichrists who deny the Son in judaism are not following the word of those prophets nor have they harkened to them.But it is the apostles such as John who believe those prophets and are bound to the same work..

Those of Judaism have the same spirit.
They have the same state of mind in which they testify Christ has not come in the flesh.They simply can not and will not believe the word was made flesh and they deny the Son of God before man and God.
 

veteran

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Are you asking someone specifically, or in general?

Anybody.

Shiloah's answer is not a consideration of that first 1 John 2:18 phrase as written.

Apostle John is reminding them of something when he said, "...and as you have heard that antichrist shall come, ...".

So what is that he was reminding them of? Where, when and from whom did they first hear about the coming of antichrist?
 

lawrance

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All you have to do is take a look in Israel taday to find that answer.

[sup]18 [/sup]Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
[sup]19 [/sup]They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.



Many people say that christianity came out of Judaism.They would claim it is a branch of Judaism.
But this is not the truth.The prophets of old testified of Christ just as the apostles did,.
The gospel and the apostles such as John was a continuation of that which had already been preached.

So its not christianity which came out of Judaism.It was judaism which parted from christianity.
Even the holy prophets would agree that those antichrists who deny the Son in judaism are not following the word of those prophets nor have they harkened to them.But it is the apostles such as John who believe those prophets and are bound to the same work..

Those of Judaism have the same spirit.
They have the same state of mind in which they testify Christ has not come in the flesh.They simply can not and will not believe the word was made flesh and they deny the Son of God before man and God.
Christianity is Israel by inheritance, as we are Israel if we know and abide in Jesus Christ and we do not just toss away the OT as it's the blue print for the NT.
The people who missed the boat so to speak were conned and robbed of there salvation. Jesus said that one of there gods they made themselves is the shield of David.
The people we call Jews back in the day of Christ ? one of the facts is that many came to follow in Christ as Holy Moses said of his coming. and remember the ones who were against Holy Moses with that golden calf of theirs.
 

Trekson

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Hi Vet: Your Q: So what is that he was reminding them of? Where, when and from whom did they first hear about the coming of antichrist?

My answer: The bible tells us that not everything Christ said and did was recorded, so they could have gotten their first inkling from the Olivet discourse and Christ's reference to the abomination of desolation from Daniel. Secondly, supposedly 2 Thess. was written about 40 years before 1 John so Paul's reference to "the man of lawlessness and the son of perdition" could have been expanded on throughout the decades and of course there is the book of Daniel. I don't think it is recorded at what exact point the word "antichrist" started to be used to describe the person who will ultimately fulfill that role.
 

veteran

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Hi Vet: Your Q: So what is that he was reminding them of? Where, when and from whom did they first hear about the coming of antichrist?

My answer: The bible tells us that not everything Christ said and did was recorded, so they could have gotten their first inkling from the Olivet discourse and Christ's reference to the abomination of desolation from Daniel. Secondly, supposedly 2 Thess. was written about 40 years before 1 John so Paul's reference to "the man of lawlessness and the son of perdition" could have been expanded on throughout the decades and of course there is the book of Daniel. I don't think it is recorded at what exact point the word "antichrist" started to be used to describe the person who will ultimately fulfill that role.

Yet all those previous Scripture accounts about the coming a particular false one is what John was pointing to as to what they had already heard about the antichrist. Our Lord Jesus pointed to a specific pseudo-Christ in His Olivet Discourse, even warned us that when some say Christ is here, or there, to not believe it, and when some say He's in the secret chambers, or in the desert, to not believe it, and don't go forth. In 2 Thess.2 Paul was specific about a particular false one sitting in the temple proclaiming himself as God, exalting himself over all... that is called God, or that is worshipped. In Rev.13:11 forward that's the same one our Lord is talking about.

So with all that Scripture evidence, why do you think men's doctrines spend so much time trying... to deny the coming of a specific antichrist, denying the first phrase of 1 John 2:18 while stressing the latter phrase of "many antichrists"?

Who the many antichrists are was explained by our Lord Jesus and His Apostles also; they represent the "mystery of iniquity" that Paul mentioned which are in connection with the OT "workers of iniquity". Jesus covered those also in His Olivet Discourse with the idea of many coming in His Name, saying they are Christ, which is in contrast to the pseudo-Christ ("false Christs" phrase which is actually singular in the Greek) involving the abomination of desolation. Even in Daniel about the abomination, it's involving a specific false one setting up idol worship. And the 2 Thess.2 account by Paul is the very same sin which Satan first rebelled against God with, in coveting God's Throne.

So those not understanding these distinctions are either blinded by God away from it, or they're simply following men's doctrines instead that are designed to get one away from understanding it as written.
 

Trekson

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Hi Vet, In this area we are in agreement. Antichrist will be a specific person and the "spirit" behind antichrist has been around a long time preparing for the ultimate great deception.
 

Retrobyter

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Shabbat shalom, Mr. Rosenberger.

Christianity is Israel by inheritance, as we are Israel if we know and abide in Jesus Christ and we do not just toss away the OT as it's the blue print for the NT.
The people who missed the boat so to speak were conned and robbed of there salvation. Jesus said that one of there gods they made themselves is the shield of David.
The people we call Jews back in the day of Christ ? one of the facts is that many came to follow in Christ as Holy Moses said of his coming. and remember the ones who were against Holy Moses with that golden calf of theirs.

No, it's NOT! According to Rav Sha'uwl (Paul) in Romans chapters 9 through 11, Gentiles can be included within the Remnant, but the inheritance of the Kingdom - the Olive Tree - yet belongs to national Isra'el. There are many indications in chapter 11 that their "blindness" is IN PART and temporary! The "people who missed the boat," as you say, still have the promises and the blessings of God:

Psalm 89:1-53
89:1(0) A maskil of Eitan the Ezrachi:
2(1) I will sing about Adonai’s acts of grace forever,

with my mouth proclaim your faithfulness to all generations;
3(2) because I said, “Grace is built to last forever;
in the heavens themselves you established your faithfulness.”

4(3) You said, “I made a covenant with the one I chose,
I swore to my servant David,
5(4) ‘I will establish your dynasty forever,
build up your throne through all generations.’” (Selah)

6(5) Let the heavens praise your wonders, Adonai,
your faithfulness in the assembly of the angels.
7(6) For who in the skies can be compared with Adonai?
Which of these gods can rival Adonai,
8(7) a God dreaded in the great assembly of the holy ones
and feared by all around him?

9(8) Adonai Elohei-Tzva’ot!
Who is as mighty as you, Yah?
Your faithfulness surrounds you.
10(9) You control the raging of the sea;
when its waves rear up, you calm them.
11(10) You crushed Rahav like a carcass;
with your strong arm you scattered your foes.
12(11) The heavens are yours, and the earth is yours;
you founded the world and everything in it.
13(12) You created north and south;
Tavor and Hermon take joy in your name.

14(13) Your arm is mighty, your hand is strong,
your right hand is lifted high.
15(14) Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne;
grace and truth attend you.

16(15) How happy are the people who know the joyful shout!
They walk in the light of your presence, Adonai.
17(16) They rejoice in your name all day
and are lifted up by your righteousness,
18(17) for you yourself are the strength in which they glory.
Our power grows by pleasing you,
19(18) for our shield comes from Adonai
our king is from the Holy One of Isra’el.

20(19) There was a time when you spoke in a vision;
you declared to your loyal [prophets],
“I have given help to a warrior,
I have raised up someone chosen from the people.
21(20) I have found David my servant
and anointed him with my holy oil.
22(21) My hand will always be with him,
and my arm will give him strength.
23(22) No enemy will outwit him,
no wicked man overcome him.
24(23) I will crush his foes before him
and strike down those who hate him.
25(24) My faithfulness and grace will be with him;
through my name his power will grow.
26(25) I will put his hand on the sea
and his right hand on the rivers.
27(26) He will call to me, ‘You are my father,
my God, the Rock of my salvation.’
28(27) I will give him the position of firstborn,
the highest of the kings of the earth.
29(28) I will keep my grace for him forever,
and in my covenant be faithful with him.
30(29) I will establish his dynasty forever,
and his throne as long as the heavens last.

31(30) “If his descendants abandon my Torah
and fail to live by my rulings,
32(31) if they profane my regulations
and don’t obey my mitzvot,
33(32) I will punish their disobedience with the rod
and their guilt with lashes.
34(33) But I won’t withdraw my grace from him
or be false to my faithfulness.
35(34) I will not profane my covenant
or change what my lips have spoken.
36(35) I have sworn by my holiness once and for all;
I will not lie to David —
37(36) his dynasty will last forever,
his throne like the sun before me.
38(37) It will be established forever, like the moon,
which remains a faithful witness in the sky.” (Selah)

39(38) But you spurned your anointed one,
rejected and vented your rage on him.
40(39) You renounced the covenant with your servant
and defiled his crown in the dust.
41(40) You broke through all his defenses
and left his strongholds in ruins.
42(41) All who pass by plunder him;
he is an object of scorn to his neighbors.
43(42) You raised up the right hand of his foes
and made all his enemies rejoice.
44(43) You drive back his drawn sword
and fail to support him in battle.
45(44) You brought an end to his splendor
and hurled his throne to the ground.
46(45) You cut short the days of his youth
and covered him with shame. (Selah)

47(46) How long, Adonai? Will you hide yourself forever?
How long will your fury burn like fire?
48(47) Remember how little time I have!
Was it for no purpose that you created all humanity?
49(48) Who can live and not see death?
Who can save himself from the power of the grave? (Selah)
50(49) Where, Adonai, are the acts of grace you once did,
those which, in your faithfulness, you swore to David?
51(50) Remember, Adonai, the taunts hurled at your servants,
which I carry in my heart [from] so many peoples!
52(51) Your enemies, Adonai, have flung their taunts,
flung them in the footsteps of your anointed one.

53(52) Blessed be Adonai forever.
Amen. Amen.
CJB


2 Chronicles 6-7
6:1 Shlomo said, “Adonai said he would live in thick darkness. 2 But I have built you a magnificent house, a place where you can live forever.”

3 Then the king turned around and blessed the whole community of Isra’el. The whole community of Isra’el stood 4 as he said, “Blessed be Adonai, the God of Isra’el, who spoke to my father David with his mouth and fulfilled his promise with his hand. He said, 5 ‘Since the day I brought my people out of Egypt, I chose no city from any of the tribes of Isra’el to build a house, so that my name might be there; nor did I choose anyone to be the leader of my people Isra’el. 6 But now I have chosen Yerushalayim, so that my name can be there; and I have chosen David to be over my people Isra’el.’ 7 It was in the heart of David my father to build a house for the name of Adonai the God of Isra’el; 8 but Adonai said to David my father, ‘Although it was in your heart to build a house for my name, and you did well that it was in your heart, 9 nevertheless you will not build the house. Rather, you will father a son, and it will be he who will build the house for my name.’ 10 Now Adonai has fulfilled this spoken word of his; for I have succeeded my father and sit on the throne of Isra’el, as Adonai promised; and I have built the house for the name of Adonai the God of Isra’el. 11 And there I have placed the ark containing the covenant of Adonai, which he made with the people of Isra’el.”

12 Then he stood before the altar of Adonai in the presence of the whole community of Isra’el, spread out his hands — 13 for Shlomo had made a bronze platform eight-and-three quarters feet long, eight-and-three-quarters feet wide and five-and-a-quarter feet high and had set it up in the middle of the courtyard. He stood on it, then got down on his knees before the whole community, spread out his hands toward heaven, 14 and said, “Adonai, God of Isra’el, there is no God like you in heaven or on earth. You keep covenant with your servants and show them grace, provided they live in your presence with all their heart. 15 You have kept your promise to your servant David, my father; you spoke with your mouth and fulfilled it with your hand; so it is today. 16 Now therefore, Adonai, God of Isra’el, keep what you promised to your servant David, my father, when you said, ‘You will never lack a man in my presence to sit on the throne of Isra’el, if only your children are careful about what they do, so that they live by my Torah, just as you have lived in my presence.’ 17 Now therefore, Adonai, God of Isra’el, please let your word, which you spoke to your servant David, my father, be confirmed.

18 “But can God actually live with human beings on the earth? Why, heaven itself, even the heaven of heavens, cannot contain you; so how much less this house I have built? 19 Even so, Adonai my God, pay attention to your servant’s prayer and plea, listen to the cry and prayer that your servant is praying before you, 20 that your eyes will be open toward this house day and night — toward the place where you said you would put your name — to listen to the prayer your servant will pray toward this place. 21 Yes, listen to the pleas of your servant, and also those of your people Isra’el when they pray toward this place. Hear from where you live, from heaven; and when you hear, forgive!

22 “If a person sins against a fellow member of the community, and he is made to swear under oath, and he comes and swears before your altar in this house; 23 then hear from heaven, act and judge your servants, paying back the wicked, so that his way of life devolves on his own head, and vindicating the one who is right, giving him what his righteousness deserves.

24 “If your people Isra’el sin against you and in consequence are defeated by an enemy; then if they turn back to you, acknowledge your name, and pray and make their plea to you in this house, 25 hear from heaven, forgive the sin of your people Isra’el, and bring them back to the land you gave to them and their ancestors.

26 “When they sin against you, and in consequence the sky is shut, so that there is no rain; then if they pray toward this place, acknowledge your name and turn from their sin when you have brought them low; 27 hear in heaven, forgive the sin of your servants and of your people Isra’el — since you keep teaching them the good way by which they should live — and send down rain on your land, which you have given your people as their inheritance.

28 “If there is famine in the land, or blight, windstorm, mildew, locusts or shearer-worms; or if their enemies besiege them in any of their cities — no matter what kind of plague or sickness it is; 29 then, regardless of what prayer or plea anyone among all your people Isra’el makes — for each individual will know his own plague and his own pain — and the person spreads out his hands toward this house; 30 then hear from heaven where you live, and forgive; also, since you know what is in each one’s heart, give each person what his conduct deserves (because you, and only you, know human hearts), 31 so that they will fear you and therefore live according to your ways throughout the time they live in the land you gave our ancestors.

32 “Also the foreigner who does not belong to your people Isra’el — when he comes from a distant country because of your great reputation, your mighty hand and your outstretched arm, when they come and pray toward this house; 33 then hear from heaven, from where you live; and act in accordance with everything about which the foreigner is calling to you; so that all the peoples of the earth will know your name and fear you, as does your people Isra’el, and so that they will know that this house which I have built bears your name.

34 “If your people go out to fight their enemies, no matter by which way you send them, and they pray to you toward the city you chose and the house I built for your name; 35 then, from heaven, hear their prayer and plea, and uphold their cause.

36 “If they sin against you — for there is no one who doesn’t sin — and you are angry with them and hand them over to the enemy, so that they carry them off captive to a land far away or nearby; 37 then, if they come to their senses in the land where they have been carried away captive, turn back and make their plea to you in the land where they are being held captive, saying, ‘We sinned, we acted wrongly, we behaved wickedly,’ 38 if, in the land where they were brought and are being held captive, they return to you with all their heart and being and pray to you toward their own land, which you gave to their ancestors, toward the city you chose and toward the house I have built for your name; 39 then, from heaven, from where you live, hear their prayer and pleas, uphold their cause, and forgive your people who have sinned against you.

40 “Now, my God, please, let your eyes be open, and let your ears pay attention to the prayer being made in this place.

41 “Now go up, Adonai, God, to your place of rest,
you and the ark through which you give strength.

“May your cohanim, Adonai, God, be clothed with salvation;
may those loyal to you take joy in good.

42 “Adonai, God, don’t turn away the face of your anointed one;
remember the mercies of your servant David.”

7:1 When Shlomo had finished praying, fire came down from heaven and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices; and the glory of Adonai filled the house, 2 so that the cohanim could not enter the house of Adonai; because the glory of Adonai filled Adonai’s house. 3 All the people of Isra’el saw when the fire came down, and the glory of Adonai was on the house; they bowed down with their faces to the ground on the flooring; prostrating themselves, they gave thanks to Adonai, “for he is good, for his grace continues forever.”

4 Then the king and all the people offered sacrifices before Adonai. 5 King Shlomo offered a sacrifice of 22,000 oxen and 120,000 sheep. Thus the king and all the people dedicated the house of God. 6 The cohanim stood at their appointed stations, while the L’vi’im used the instruments that David the king had provided for making music to Adonai in order to “give thanks to Adonai, for his grace continues forever,” by means of the praises David had composed. Opposite them the cohanim sounded trumpets; and all Isra’el stood up. 7 Shlomo also consecrated the center of the courtyard in front of the house of Adonai; because he had to offer the burnt offerings and the fat of the peace offerings there. For the bronze altar which Shlomo had made could not receive the burnt offering, the grain offering and the fat. 8 So Shlomo celebrated the festival at that time for seven days, together with all Isra’el, an enormous gathering; [they had come all the way] from the entrance of Hamat to the Vadi [of Egypt]. 9 On the eighth day they held a solemn assembly, having observed the dedication of the altar for seven days and the festival for seven days. 10 Then, on the twenty-third day of the seventh month, he sent the people away to their tents full of joy and glad of heart for all the goodness Adonai had shown to David, to Shlomo and to Isra’el his people.

11 Thus Shlomo finished the house of Adonai and the royal palace. Everything that Shlomo had set his heart on making in the house of Adonai and in his own palace he accomplished successfully.

12 Adonai appeared to Shlomo by night and said to him, “I have heard your prayer and have chosen this place for myself as a house of sacrifice. 13 If I shut up the sky, so that there is no rain; or if I order locusts to devour the land; or if I send an epidemic of sickness among my people; 14 then, if my people, who bear my name, will humble themselves, pray, seek my face and turn from their evil ways, I will hear from heaven, forgive their sin and heal their land. 15 Now my eyes will be open and my ears will pay attention to the prayer made in this place. 16 For now I have chosen and consecrated this house, so that my name can be there forever; my eyes and heart will always be there. 17 As for you, if you will live in my presence, as did David your father, doing everything I have ordered you to do, and keeping my laws and rulings; 18 then I will establish the throne of your rulership, as I covenanted with David your father when I said, ‘You will never lack a man to be ruler in Isra’el.’ 19 But if you turn away and abandon my regulations and mitzvot which I have set before you, and go and serve other gods, worshipping them; 20 then I will pull them up by the roots out of the land I have given them. This house, which I consecrated for my name, I will eject from my sight; and I will make it an example to avoid and an object of scorn among all peoples. 21 This house, now so exalted — everyone passing by will be shocked at the sight of it and will ask, ‘Why has Adonai done this to this land and to this house?’ 22 But the answer will be, ‘It’s because they abandoned Adonai the God of their ancestors, who brought them out of the land of Egypt, and took hold of other gods, worshipping and serving them; this is why [Adonai] brought all these calamities on them.’”
CJB


And even in the NT, one should not deny that God said the same through the writing of Paul:

Romans 11:1-32
11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
KJV


So, it would be wise for you NOT to think that somehow YOU'RE the new Isra'el INSTEAD of them! That's just foolish talk!

And another thing: Where do you get off saying, "Jesus said that one of there gods they made themselves is the shield of David"? When did Yeshua` EVER say that?! BOOK, CHAPTER, AND VERSE!
 

veteran

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Well actually, unbelieving Israel does NOT have all the Promises anymore which God gave to His Israel.

That's been the lie pushed in the Churches for the last century, that only Jews are national Israel and they still have the Promises.

God's Promises stayed with Israel that's under The Gospel of Jesus Christ ONLY! And believing Gentiles were graffed IN! That is Christ's Church. That's... where God's Promises were meant to be since Abraham, and still are.

God's Plan of Salvation is a progressive Plan. The New Covenant went to 'believing' Israel, not to the unbelieving Jews who are cut off. That's how it will remain until the fulfness of the Gentiles be come in, like Apostle Paul said. That means, ONCE Christ has returned to inherit His Kingdom here on earth, and has joined the believers to Him, only then will the two sticks of Israel be joined back together, and the unbelievers of Israel will then have their spiritual eyes and ears opened, God's blindness removed from them. And they will... stand under judgment throughout Christ's future Milennium reign, which is what His "rod of iron" is also about.

In Ezekiel 44 we are shown where the Levites who went astray when unbelieving Israel went astray will be assigned menial duties in God's House during Christ's future Milennium reign. Ony the Zadok (Just) will be allowed near Him then.