The Role of the Anti-Christ

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Trekson

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Hi Faithful, I think I agree with most of what you wrote but assuredly you know the a/c will have great influence on unsaved people. That's how he will rise to power. The church has nothing to fear from him, except for the trials and tribulations of being persecuted for our beliefs, but with that comes great rewards.

You asked this question: "What authority, seat and power has Satan got?"

He has the keys to the kingdoms of this earth. He is presently the ruler of this earth ceded to him by Adam. That is why he was able to tempt Christ in this manner: Matt. 4:8-9 - "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
[sup]9 [/sup]And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me."

Hi son of man, Here's what I came up with.

Matt. 17:3 "And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him."

The implication of this verse is that they were from heaven as a way for Christ to show them the resurrection was real. This identifying by "spirit" was the only way they could have known who Christ was speaking to.

2 Kings 2:1 - "And it came to pass, when the Lord would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal."

Heb. 11:5 - "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God." That he was brought to heaven is what is commonly believed here.

John's vision of heaven: Rev. 7:9 - "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands."

This is a picture of what is known as the pre-wrath rapture of the church.

How about this one: Rev.6:8-9 - "[sup] [/sup]And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar (in heaven) the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: [sup]10 [/sup]And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth."

is that enough?
 

us2are1

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Show me "one scripture" where anyone is going to heaven without using your imagination.

John 3
13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

Romans 10
6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?' " (that is, to bring Christ down from above)

besides this one.

Revelation 11
11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them.

if you are not already in heaven then there is something wrong with your doctrine.

No one has ever died and gone to heaven not even the thief on the cross. Those who have gone to heaven have ascended alive up into the air of earth.

That is the reason for the resurrection from the dead. They were in heaven before they died and from heaven they will be brought back to life from death. There is no consciousness in death. No life at all. Only the living are in heaven. Written in the palm of God. Sealed By The Spirit Of "The Living God" for the day of redemption.


Matthew 22
32 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."





.
 

Arnie Manitoba

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The simplest description I can come up with is this:

Some people desire involvement with The Creator , and wish to be resurrected some day to a new heaven and new earth to be with the Lord forever.
.
To make this possible , The Creator has supplied His Son Jesus Christ , for anyone who wants Him.

For the rest of the people in the World that do not want Jesus as their Christ ..... The Creator sends them the Christ they want. The counterfeit one , commonly referred to as the Anti-Christ.

It's as simple as that ,

The role of The Anti-Christ will be as (world) leader .... and ultimately demand everybody worship him (as a god). He will achieve this for a short time.
 

michaelvpardo

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This is a pretty good discussion and I couldn't take sides with anyone, though there are and have been many anti-christs in the world. I think that anyone who hears the gospel and ultimately rejects it seems to fall into that category, but I think that we'll know who "he" is when he is revealed by his works. We can't prevent them. On the contrary, the Lord has allowed them to test those who dwell upon the Earth, even as He told Israel that He would send false prophets among them to test their faithfulness.
When it comes to lying signs and wonders, I wouldn't rule out technology. In the ancient world, the temples erected for the gods of the nations (demons) often had technological tricks built into them that were known to their priesthood and intended to impress the devotees who came to the temples. The scriptures also mention diviners and mumblers. These were often false prophets who used props and devices to produce erie sounds and strange effects to con people, much like many modern ghost hunters, mediums, and "magicians".
While Satan was given great power and authority by God, he is a defeated foe, all power and authority now is in the hands of Jesus Christ. The principle weapon of Satan is deception. It started (at least with respect to mankind) in the garden of Eden, and the book of Daniel suggests that the rise to power of the anti-christ is through the same means. Graduate students in the Physics department at Stony Brook University on Long Island were doing government (DOD) funded research on "heavy" metal lasers back when I was a student at that university, more than 30 years ago. We've spent money developing technologies for warfare that have never been applied and may never be, but fire from the sky doesn't have to be an act of God, given our understanding of physics and the ability of placing rather large sattelites into orbit.
I'm inclined to believe that the anti-christ will use technology or trickery to try to duplicate the works of the two witnesses in a manner like the Egyptian priests that opposed Moses, and that these works will encourage those who rebell against God. Much of modern science has as its goal the duplication of God's wonders, not for the purpose of doing good, but for the purpose of denying God; Biologists strive to understand and manipulate the human genome, not so much to reduce suffering in the population, but to create a new and future population of superior men. The eugenics movement and Adolf Hitler's "supermen" were early attempts at just this thing, which amounts to playing at being God, deciding what has value to our society and what can be done away with in quiet and "humane" ways. I hope that I would be willing to die for my faith if it should come to that, but I don't want to be gassed and incinerated, or disposed of in some more efficient and less detectable way. Nor do I want to allow others to share such a fate, but such things have gone on for many years in lands where we have no influence, and now even in our own country. I don't advocate militancy, but the preaching of the gospel and fervent prayer for the changing of the hearts and minds of our people. Only God can turn us around as a people, and we, the body of Christ, are a holy priesthood unto God. A priesthood must intervene for the nation. As those who draw near to God, we must treat Him as Holy and not act in profane ways. Judgment begins in the house of God. Whatever becomes of our nation, that which is written will ultimately come to pass, but in the end every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Amen.
 

Arnie Manitoba

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I'm inclined to believe that the anti-christ will use technology or trickery to try to duplicate the works of the two witnesses in a manner like the Egyptian priests that opposed Moses, and that these works will encourage those who rebel against God.

Agreed .... I have considered that many times and ponder the influence on mankind.

Some pretty amazing powers were available to those Egyptians .... can you imagine seeing that in modern day ..... the deception will be profound .... it would be the 'proof of god' everybody wants .... and if any Christians are still around , nobody will listen to their warnings.
 

veteran

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Shalom, veteran.


Well, that's not true. Just look at the verses again. I've quoted for you from Psalm 89, 2 Chronicles 6-7, and Romans 11. Did no one read what I quoted?! I wrote seven lines of my own words. All the rest was GOD'S Word! I would suggest you learn these passages and take them to heart, because GOD DOES NOT CHANGE! HE REMAINS FAITHFUL! The Hebrew word is "chesed" and was translated as "lovingkindness" in the KJV. The concept behind the word is that GOD KEEPS HIS COVENANTS! Paul told us that God does not renig on His promises! He's not an "Indian giver!" And, the Jews ARE a part of national Isra'el! Y'hudah was a son of Isra'el! Therefore, they DO still have the promises of God!

There's a difference between unbelieving Judah as still beloved of God by His calling vs. His Birthright promises to Israel (which include the covenants and promises Paul mentioned the Gentiles have come into per Ephesians 2 involving Christ's Church as "the commonwealth of Israel"). God's Birthright is the matter I speak of regarding the promises. They remained with believing Israel of the scattered ten tribes.

There are certain things God did promise involving even unbelieving Judah for this world time, examples like 1 Kings 11 where He promised to always leave one tribe in Jerusalem for His servants David's sake, and Jerusalem sake; and His promise of Jer.24 to bring them back to the holy land and not remove them again, and also per Paul in Rom.11 to remove their blindness in final when the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. But His Birthright, which includes His promises to Israel per the promise to Abraham, is no longer with the unbelieving Jews today. This is why Paul also taught in Rom.11 that anyone in unbelief is cut off.

When God removed the ten tribes of Israel out of the holy land, His Birthright promises went with them, for that Birthright was given to the sons of Joseph, not to Judah, excepting Judah remaining as "chief ruler" which is about the royal sceptre (1 Chronicles 5). The care of David's throne is no longer with unbelieving Judah today. But it is still with 'believing' Judah, thus fulfilling God's promise in Gen.49:10 that one of Judah would keep the sceptre until Shiloh (Christ) returns. In the Christian West is where we find all of God's Birthright promises still established today, and that's about The Gospel of Jesus Christ and His Church.

Your heart may sing out for your brethren that still refuse to receive Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, much as how Paul himself felt about them. I feel the same way. Yet God's Plan is His and not ours, and it will be established as He said. Ps.89 is especially about God's Promise to David that there would never fail a man of Israel to sit upon his throne to all generations. 2 Chronicles 6 is much about the same matter of God's Promise to David about his throne and ruling over His people. But Rom.11:25-32 is about God putting blindness upon Israel "in part", meaning only upon a portion, the unbelieving Jews of the "house of Judah" (Judah, Benjamin, and Levi).


Yechezk'el is talking about the sons of Tsaadowq (Zadok), which means "righteousness" or "justice," just as Malkhiy-Tsedeq (Melchizedek) means "my King of Righteousness."

Notice the distinction between the Levites that fell away vs. the Zadok in that Ezekiel 44 chapter. The Zadok do not represent just the 'believing' seed of Israel, it represents the believing Gentiles too, as per Christ's promise of His servants becoming priests and kings in Revelation. The name Zadok is not a specific name applied to only the seed of Israel there. All those who remain in Christ Jesus are the Zadok, meaning The Just, or the Righteous, for He is The King of the Zadok. The Levites there represent those of Israel that went astray when Israel went astray; they point to unbelieving house of Judah (Jews) today that still refuse The Gospel of Jesus Christ, but also to Christian leaders that lead astray.


And, it is an HONOR to serve in the House of God, regardless the job! They weren't being "punished!" Where'd you get a silly notion such as that?! They just couldn't serve in the office of cohen! Think, veteran, is it a "punishment" to serve in the motor pool? Or, is a GI still doing a necessary service for his country?


I'm not going to allow you to try and diminish what God said those unbelievers will be under in that future time and why, for it is a very important matter to our LORD GOD, and it should be to us also...


Ezek 44:6-24
6 And thou shalt say to the rebellious, even to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; O ye house of Israel, let it suffice you of all your abominations,
7 In that ye have brought into My sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in My sanctuary, to pollute it, even My house, when ye offer My bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken My covenant because of all your abominations.
8 And ye have not kept the charge of Mine holy things: but ye have set keepers of My charge in My sanctuary for yourselves.
9 Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into My sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

The first problem with "strangers" was how Israel disobeyed God's command to specifically destroy the nations of Canaan (Deut.20; Judges 2 & 3). They failed in that, and thus God allowed them to become a test upon Israel, to see if Israel would follow Him or not. Then after a while, Israel allowed them entrance into the temple to do 'menial' duties that the Levite priests only were supposed to do. Those were the priests and Nethinims of Ezra 2 which were not of any genealogy of Israel.

Solomon with his many concubines and wives of the nations allowed them to have their idols and false worship among Israel. So God rent the kingdom from Solomon's son Rehoboam and gave Israel to Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim (1 Kings 11 forward).

And then eventually among the remaining house of Judah that returned after the 70 years Babylon captivity, the Kenites of the nations of Canaan still dwelling among them were allowed to become the 'scribes' in Judea (1 Chronicles 2:55). Per the histories by the Jewish historian Josephus, even sons of Esau were allowed to become high priests in Jerusalem. And many of Esau became Jews mixed in among the house of Judah. This is why John the Baptist, Christ Jesus Himself, and His Apostles rebuked the scribes, Pharisees, and Sadduccees, because of all the foreigners with their pagan doctrines that had crept in among them and in the seat of Moses (law), and in the priesthood.

But God foreknew that would happen, as He sent His Son to them first knowing those crept in unawares were not of His fold and would not receive Him, but want to kill Him thinking to steal His vineyard of Israel instead, and then He would remove His vineyard of Israel from their care, as it still is to this day (Matthew 21).

To this day, our times, the "crept in unawares", i.e., the wolves in sheep's clothing, are still dwelling among God's people in high positions of authority and in Christ's Church, not just among the house of Judah (Jews) only. Apostle Paul specifically warned of this for after his departing, a counsel from God that is mysteriously left out of most Churches today (Acts 20:27-32). Some... of God's people are guilty in allowing that to happen among the scattered house of Israel also, so it does not apply only to Israelite history in Old Testament times, but today also involving Christ's Church. (Ezekiel was sent as a prophet especially to the "house of Israel", i.e., the ten tribes, and not for the house of Judah, though he is given some prophecies concerning Judah).


10 And the Levites that are gone away far from Me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from Me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.
11 Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them.

These Levites represent all those leaders that led Israel astray through history, which includes... Christian leaders over Christ's Church that lead their congregations astray, even for today. They will "bear their iniquity" like God said there through His prophet Ezekiel. They will be assigned specific ministering duties in God's House that the Zadok (Just) priests will NOT... be doing. So God gave there an example of how... those priests of Israel that went astray will "bear their iniquity".


12 Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up Mine hand against them, saith the Lord GOD, and they shall bear their iniquity.

God will not be pleased with them because of what they did and allow, and therefore they will not be allowed to approach our Lord Jesus Christ in that time.


13 And they shall not come near unto Me, to do the office of a priest unto Me, nor to come near to any of My holy things, in the most holy place: but they shall bear their shame, and their abominations which they have committed.

That is about a penance for those, not a time of joy.


14 But I will make them keepers of the charge of the house, for all the service thereof, and for all that shall be done therein.
(KJV)


The fact that God is not going to literally destroy those Levites which led His people astray to worship idols and the coming "abomination of desolation" shows His mercy upon them, and how He will not go against His calling upon them (Rom.11:29). So this should be a fair warning for leaders over God's people today, especially those given authority as stewards over His Church.

there are several areas i do not agree with you. take time to understand Daniel chapter 11 and 12. Muslim plays no role in the last days. look at the Daniels dream of the four beats and carry all that to revelation. i will definitely teach all this here http://www.christiantruthcenter.com/. But still realize that we have the spirit of the anti-Christ in place today. http://www.christian.../the-antichrist

Then you have not looked at other prophecy, like the list of nations against Israel on the last day per Ezekiel 38 and 39.

Shalom, veteran.


Yochanan simply meant that there were already people in the first century against the idea that the Messiah had come in the flesh, that Yeshua` is that Messiah, and that He is the Son of God.

That's all.

One must separate John's first phrase that they had already heard that antichrist shall come, from the second phrase he gave that acts as additional info for the subject of the first phrase.

They first had heard that the Antichrist shall come, and that was regarding the old prophecies like in the Book of Daniel, and then later with what Christ gave in His Olivet Discourse, and then Paul in 2 Thess.2:3-4 and 2 Cor.11 about the "another Jesus".

But John's second phrase was more info to point out how there are "many antichrists" here already. He was not detracting from his first clause at all.

But that's exactly what the devil's servants do with it that have spread the lie that there is no specific singular Antichrist that's coming in our near future. For them to do that, it shows how they are in strong denial of all... those other specific Scriptures about the coming a particular false one in the last days. And to their own destruction they are doing that.
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, veteran.

There's a difference between unbelieving Judah as still beloved of God by His calling vs. His Birthright promises to Israel (which include the covenants and promises Paul mentioned the Gentiles have come into per Ephesians 2 involving Christ's Church as "the commonwealth of Israel"). God's Birthright is the matter I speak of regarding the promises. They remained with believing Israel of the scattered ten tribes.

There are certain things God did promise involving even unbelieving Judah for this world time, examples like 1 Kings 11 where He promised to always leave one tribe in Jerusalem for His servants David's sake, and Jerusalem sake; and His promise of Jer.24 to bring them back to the holy land and not remove them again, and also per Paul in Rom.11 to remove their blindness in final when the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. But His Birthright, which includes His promises to Israel per the promise to Abraham, is no longer with the unbelieving Jews today. This is why Paul also taught in Rom.11 that anyone in unbelief is cut off.

When God removed the ten tribes of Israel out of the holy land, His Birthright promises went with them, for that Birthright was given to the sons of Joseph, not to Judah, excepting Judah remaining as "chief ruler" which is about the royal sceptre (1 Chronicles 5). The care of David's throne is no longer with unbelieving Judah today. But it is still with 'believing' Judah, thus fulfilling God's promise in Gen.49:10 that one of Judah would keep the sceptre until Shiloh (Christ) returns. In the Christian West is where we find all of God's Birthright promises still established today, and that's about The Gospel of Jesus Christ and His Church.

Your heart may sing out for your brethren that still refuse to receive Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, much as how Paul himself felt about them. I feel the same way. Yet God's Plan is His and not ours, and it will be established as He said. Ps.89 is especially about God's Promise to David that there would never fail a man of Israel to sit upon his throne to all generations. 2 Chronicles 6 is much about the same matter of God's Promise to David about his throne and ruling over His people. But Rom.11:25-32 is about God putting blindness upon Israel "in part", meaning only upon a portion, the unbelieving Jews of the "house of Judah" (Judah, Benjamin, and Levi).

No, this is an error. The birthright promises to Isra'el were given to Yeshua` (Jesus), and HE ALONE is the One who can still be King of Isra'el. The "commonwealth of Isra'el" is just that: "the CITIZENSHIP OF YISRA'EL" (Eph. 2:12; Greek: "tees politeias tou Israeel" = "the citizenship/community of-the Isra'el")! NOT the "church" or the "scattered ten tribes!" Indeed, even the "scattered ten tribes are PART of this "citizenship of Isra'el! YESHUA`, however, IS the Firstborn of David (Psalm 2:7-9; 89:20-29; Zech. 12:10; Matt. 1:25; Luke 1:30-33; 2:7; Rom. 8:29; Col. 1:9-17; Heb. 12:22-24)! To Him is both the blessing and the birthright! They belong to NO ONE ELSE!

Notice the distinction between the Levites that fell away vs. the Zadok in that Ezekiel 44 chapter. The Zadok do not represent just the 'believing' seed of Israel, it represents the believing Gentiles too, as per Christ's promise of His servants becoming priests and kings in Revelation. The name Zadok is not a specific name applied to only the seed of Israel there. All those who remain in Christ Jesus are the Zadok, meaning The Just, or the Righteous, for He is The King of the Zadok. The Levites there represent those of Israel that went astray when Israel went astray; they point to unbelieving house of Judah (Jews) today that still refuse The Gospel of Jesus Christ, but also to Christian leaders that lead astray.

Not at all. The Ts'duwqiym (the line of Tsadowq or "Zadok") are just that! They are the LITERAL children and descendants of Tsadowq. You're given to too much symbolism.

2 Chronicles 13:1-10
1 Now in the eighteenth year of king Jeroboam began Abijah to reign over Judah.
2 He reigned three years in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Michaiah the daughter of Uriel of Gibeah. And there was war between Abijah and Jeroboam.
3 And Abijah set the battle in array with an army of valiant men of war, even four hundred thousand chosen men: Jeroboam also set the battle in array against him with eight hundred thousand chosen men, being mighty men of valour.
4 And Abijah stood up upon mount Zemaraim, which is in mount Ephraim, and said, Hear me, thou Jeroboam, and all Israel;
5 Ought ye not to know that the Lord God of Israel gave the kingdom over Israel to David for ever, even to him and to his sons by a covenant of salt?
6 Yet Jeroboam the son of Nebat, the servant of Solomon the son of David, is risen up, and hath rebelled against his lord.
7 And there are gathered unto him vain men, the children of Belial, and have strengthened themselves against Rehoboam the son of Solomon, when Rehoboam was young and tenderhearted, and could not withstand them.
8 And now ye think to withstand the kingdom of the Lord in the hand of the sons of David; and ye be a great multitude, and there are with you golden calves, which Jeroboam made you for gods.
9 Have ye not cast out the priests of the Lord, the sons of Aaron, and the Levites, and have made you priests after the manner of the nations of other lands? so that whosoever cometh to consecrate himself with a young bullock and seven rams, the same may be a priest of them that are no gods.
10 But as for us, the Lord is our God, and we have not forsaken him; and the priests, which minister unto the Lord, are the sons of Aaron, and the Levites wait upon their business:
KJV


1 Chronicles 29:22
22 And did eat and drink before the Lord on that day with great gladness. And they made Solomon the son of David king the second time, and anointed him unto the Lord to be the chief governor, and Zadok to be priest.
KJV

...
2 Chronicles 31:10-12
10 And Azariah the chief priest of the house of Zadok answered him, and said, Since the people began to bring the offerings into the house of the Lord, we have had enough to eat, and have left plenty: for the Lord hath blessed his people; and that which is left is this great store.
11 Then Hezekiah commanded to prepare chambers in the house of the Lord; and they prepared them,
12 And brought in the offerings and the tithes and the dedicated things faithfully: over which Cononiah the Levite was ruler, and Shimei his brother was the next.
KJV


I'm not going to allow you to try and diminish what God said those unbelievers will be under in that future time and why, for it is a very important matter to our LORD GOD, and it should be to us also...

Ezek 44:6-14
6 And thou shalt say to the rebellious, even to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; O ye house of Israel, let it suffice you of all your abominations,
7 In that ye have brought into My sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in My sanctuary, to pollute it, even My house, when ye offer My bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken My covenant because of all your abominations.
8 And ye have not kept the charge of Mine holy things: but ye have set keepers of My charge in My sanctuary for yourselves.
9 Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into My sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

The first problem with "strangers" was how Israel disobeyed God's command to specifically destroy the nations of Canaan (Deut.20; Judges 2 & 3). They failed in that, and thus God allowed them to become a test upon Israel, to see if Israel would follow Him or not. Then after a while, Israel allowed them entrance into the temple to do 'menial' duties that the Levite priests only were supposed to do. Those were the priests and Nethinims of Ezra 2 which were not of any genealogy of Israel.

Solomon with his many concubines and wives of the nations allowed them to have their idols and false worship among Israel. So God rent the kingdom from Solomon's son Rehoboam and gave Israel to Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim (1 Kings 11 forward).

And then eventually among the remaining house of Judah that returned after the 70 years Babylon captivity, the Kenites of the nations of Canaan still dwelling among them were allowed to become the 'scribes' in Judea (1 Chronicles 2:55). Per the histories by the Jewish historian Josephus, even sons of Esau were allowed to become high priests in Jerusalem. And many of Esau became Jews mixed in among the house of Judah. This is why John the Baptist, Christ Jesus Himself, and His Apostles rebuked the scribes, Pharisees, and Sadduccees, because of all the foreigners with their pagan doctrines that had crept in among them and in the seat of Moses (law), and in the priesthood.

But God foreknew that would happen, as He sent His Son to them first knowing those crept in unawares were not of His fold and would not receive Him, but want to kill Him thinking to steal His vineyard of Israel instead, and then He would remove His vineyard of Israel from their care, as it still is to this day (Matthew 21).

To this day, our times, they "crept in unawares", i.e., the wolves in sheep's clothing, are still dwelling among God's people in high positions of authority and in Christ's Church, not just among the house of Judah (Jews) only. Apostle Paul specifically warned of this for after his departing, a counsel from God that is mysteriously left out of most Churches today (Acts 20:27-32). Some... of God's people are guilty in allowing that to happen among the scattered house of Israel also, so it does not apply only to Israelite history in Old Testament times, but today also involving Christ's Church. (Ezekiel was sent as a prophet especially to the "house of Israel", i.e., the ten tribes, and not for the house of Judah, though he is given some prophecies concerning Judah).

10 And the Levites that are gone away far from Me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from Me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.
11 Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them.

These Levites represent all those leaders that led Israel astray through history, which includes... Christian leaders over Christ's Church that lead their congregations astray, even for today. They will "bear their iniquity" like God said there through His prophet Ezekiel. They will be assigned specific ministering duties in God's House that the Zadok (Just) priests will NOT... be doing. So God gave there an example of how... those priests of Israel that went astray will "bear their iniquity".

12 Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up Mine hand against them, saith the Lord GOD, and they shall bear their iniquity.

God will not be pleased with them because of what they did and allow, and therefore they will not be allowed to approach our Lord Jesus Christ in that time.

13 And they shall not come near unto Me, to do the office of a priest unto Me, nor to come near to any of My holy things, in the most holy place: but they shall bear their shame, and their abominations which they have committed.

That is about a penance for those, not a time of joy.

14 But I will make them keepers of the charge of the house, for all the service thereof, and for all that shall be done therein.
(KJV)

The fact that God is not going to literally destroy those Levites which led His people astray to worship idols and the coming "abomination of desolation" shows His mercy upon them, and how He will not go against His calling upon them (Rom.11:29). So this should be a fair warning for leaders over God's people today, especially those given authority as stewards over His Church.

Brother, you don't know what you're talking about! What did the sons of Korach say regarding the house of God?

Psalm 84:1-13
84:1(0) For the leader. On the gittit. A psalm of the sons of Korach:

2(1) How deeply loved are your dwelling-places,
ADONAI-Tzva’ot!
3(2) My soul yearns, yes, faints with longing
for the courtyards of ADONAI;
my heart and body cry for joy
to the living God.
4(3) As the sparrow finds herself a home

and the swallow her nest, where she lays her young,
[so my resting-place is] by your altars,
ADONAI-Tzva’ot, my king and my God.
5(4) How happy are those who live in your house;

they never cease to praise you! (Selah)
6(5) How happy the man whose strength is in you,
in whose heart are [pilgrim] highways.

7(6) Passing through the [dry] Baka Valley,
they make it a place of springs,
and the early rain clothes it with blessings.
8(7) They go from strength to strength
and appear before God in Tziyon.

9(8) ADONAI, God of armies, hear my prayer;
listen, God of Ya‘akov. (Selah)
10(9) God, see our shield [the king];
look at the face of your anointed.
11(10) Better a day in your courtyards
than a thousand [days elsewhere].
Better just standing at the door of my God’s house
than living in the tents of the wicked.

12(11) For ADONAI, God, is a sun and a shield (Hebrew: uw-maageen = "and a shield");
ADONAI bestows favor and honor;
he will not withhold anything good
from those whose lives are pure.

13(12) ADONAI-Tzva’ot,
how happy is anyone who trusts in you!
CJB


It's only because you don't yet understand how blessed a person is just to be working ANYWHERE within the courtyards of the House of God, the Temple! You've focused on the WRONG VERSES! Don't look at the verses pessimistically; look at them optimistically! Don't focus on verses 10, 12 and 13; focus rather on verses 11 and 14! Don't EVER let it be said that working in the Temple will be "a penance!" The text never said that "God will not be pleased with them" or "they will not be allowed to approach our Lord Jesus Christ in that time!" You're adding to the words of the text!

Yes, they will have to "bear their iniquity," but then SO WILL WE! Have you ever done anything for which you are ashamed? Yes, God can forgive us, but restitution is still a necessary part! Don't you know that the WORST CRIME one has committed and for which one has been forgiven by God on Yeshua`s account is one of the GREATEST ACCOMPLISHMENTS of Yeshua` the Messiah?! We, in spite of our sin, because we are "sinners-saved-by-grace" and not just "sinners" anymore, are TROPHIES to our Master Yeshua` haMashiach! No, they will not be allowed to minister before YHWH'S face at that time, but who said they won't be able to approach our Master Yeshua` the Messiah?! I STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH YOU!!!

Have you ever considered the conclusion of putting these passages together?

Ephesians 2:11-22
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
KJV


Romans 11:25-36
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. (Isa. 27:9; Jer. 31:31-34)
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
KJV


2 Corinthians 5:14-21
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
KJV


Romans 3:19-31
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without (outside of) the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by (Greek: "ek" = "out of") faith, and uncircumcision through (Greek: "dia" = "through") faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law (God's Law, the Torah).
KJV


The Isra'elites (including the Jews) have to be reconciled to God (switched places with God) the same as Gentiles do!

...
One must separate John's first phrase that they had already heard that antichrist shall come, from the second phrase he gave that acts as additional info for the subject of the first phrase.

They first had heard that the Antichrist shall come, and that was regarding the old prophecies like in the Book of Daniel, and then later with what Christ gave in His Olivet Discourse, and then Paul in 2 Thess.2:3-4 and 2 Cor.11 about the "another Jesus".

But John's second phrase was more info to point out how there are "many antichrists" here already. He was not detracting from his first clause at all.

But that's exactly what the devil's servants do with it that have spread the lie that there is no specific singular Antichrist that's coming in our near future. For them to do that, it shows how they are in strong denial of all... those other specific Scriptures about the coming a particular false one in the last days. And to their own destruction they are doing that.

You're making MUCH too much ado about this "Antichrist" character that's been dreamed up! Dani'el only mentions him as the "little horn." He IS the "Beast" of Revelation 13, and He IS the "one against the Torah" in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12, but he should NOT be called "Antichrist," except to acknowledge that he DOES exhibit the spirit (attitude) of one against the Messiah the same as many others do. In this respect, it is more of a case of semantics for me.

However, Dani'el 9 does NOT talk about him AT ALL! Dani'el 11 talks about Antiochus IV Epiphanes, but he is not related to the "Beast" AT ALL! Much of the connections made between Rev. & 2 Thes. and Dani'el are FABRICATED, INVENTED, MADE UP and FORCED! They are simply FALSIFIED, and thus, they are an ABUSE (ABnormal USE) of the Scriptures! That's all I'm saying. I believe in the "Beast/one against the Torah," but it is wrong to call him "Antichrist." And, what I meant by "dreamed up" above is that too much is attributed to him! He does/will exist, but not everything said about him will happen. For instance, the idea that he will "confirm a covenant with Isra'el" is trumped up because it comes SOLELY from a bad interpretation of Dani'el 9:27!
 

lawrance

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The role of the Ant-Christ is the government, where it takes over the position of The Church and State.
It's getting rid of any form of involvement of Christ.
The Ant-Christ mob are bastardising Christianity, they push it on TV in the schools, everywhere. pushing Christianity out as evil and pushing there socialist man made filthy creep show down on the poor blinded people, who do not have any idea as to what is in store for them.
Fact is, it's the same old creep show coming, as was with Nazis and the good old Como's. just different but you will always end up with a full on raving mad man running the show and everyone around him to scared to say jack for extreme fear of their life and others.
This garbage has been pushed for years, brain washing our youth with PC indoctrination.
I use to think my mum was being stupid when i asked her how did Hitler get to do what he did, i was about 7 years old then and she said they were like they were hypnotised. and i thought what a load of rubbish ! but now i see the same is true of people today, just hopeless fools off with the pixies with no direction at all, as they have no foundation.. they only look to them self's.
 

veteran

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Shalom, veteran.



No, this is an error. The birthright promises to Isra'el were given to Yeshua` (Jesus), and HE ALONE is the One who can still be King of Isra'el. The "commonwealth of Isra'el" is just that: "the CITIZENSHIP OF YISRA'EL" (Eph. 2:12; Greek: "tees politeias tou Israeel" = "the citizenship/community of-the Isra'el")! NOT the "church" or the "scattered ten tribes!" Indeed, even the "scattered ten tribes are PART of this "citizenship of Isra'el! YESHUA`, however, IS the Firstborn of David (Psalm 2:7-9; 89:20-29; Zech. 12:10; Matt. 1:25; Luke 1:30-33; 2:7; Rom. 8:29; Col. 1:9-17; Heb. 12:22-24)! To Him is both the blessing and the birthright! They belong to NO ONE ELSE!

The "commonwealth of Israel" label that Apostle Paul used in Ephesians 2 represents Christ's Church. Paul is giving that label in conjunction with the believing Gentiles he's speaking to there, telling them how they have become part of that commonwealth through belief on Christ Jesus. There is no one else that commonwealth of Israel can apply to except Christ's Church. It is THROUGH Christ's Blood shed upon the cross how believing Gentiles have become part of that "commonwealth of Israel". Thus that commonwealth is not a title for Christ Jesus Himself, but for His Body of believers, His Church. God's promises stayed with believing Israel which became Christ's Church, which is made up of both believing Israelites of the seed, and believing Gentiles. If this were not so, then it would make everything Apostle Paul taught in Romans 11 and elsewhere about Christ's many-membered Body fall to the ground.

Eph 2:11-13
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
(KJV)

Notice how that "commonwealth of Israel" label Paul declares is in connection with the "covenants of promise". That's about God's promises to Israel.



Not at all. The Ts'duwqiym (the line of Tsadowq or "Zadok") are just that! They are the LITERAL children and descendants of Tsadowq. You're given to too much symbolism.

The name Zadok simply means 'just' or 'righteous' in Hebrew. So that is not about some too much symbolism hogwash idea. It's about Christ's elect kings and priests per His promise in Rev.1:6; Rev.5:10; Rev.20:6. It's about that "commonwealth of Israel" meaning per Paul in Eph.2, which is ONLY about believers on Christ Jesus, i.e., His Church. Otherwise, per the vain Orthodox Jewish idea you espouse, it would mean unbelievers of Israel ruling over Christ's Church during Christ's future Milennium there in Ezekiel, which of course is an absurd idea of deceived Jews that still refuse Yahshu'a of Nazareth as Messiah.



Brother, you don't know what you're talking about! What did the sons of Korach say regarding the house of God?

Oh, I know very well what I'm talking about per God's Word. Only the faithful in Christ's Church will rule in Christ's future Kingdom on earth. And once again, who all did Paul declare makes up Christ's Church? Believing Israelites and Gentiles as ONE BODY. You cannot reverse what Paul declared about those who are 'cut off' because of 'unbelief' (Rom.11).

It's only because you don't yet understand how blessed a person is just to be working ANYWHERE within the courtyards of the House of God, the Temple! You've focused on the WRONG VERSES! Don't look at the verses pessimistically; look at them optimistically! Don't focus on verses 10, 12 and 13; focus rather on verses 11 and 14! Don't EVER let it be said that working in the Temple will be "a penance!" The text never said that "God will not be pleased with them" or "they will not be allowed to approach our Lord Jesus Christ in that time!" You're adding to the words of the text!

Obviously, you need to re-read the Ezekiel 44 Scripture as written that the Levites that fell away will bear their iniquity in that time, and that our Heavenly Father reveals that point through Ezekiel. Should do that instead of trying idolize a 'seed' of people. And you are not disagreeing with me; you are disagreeing with the Ezekiel Scripture as written, which our Heavenly Father through His prophet Ezekiel. Levites there = apostates; Zadok (Righteous) = Christ's elect faithful, i.e., His Church.

I see no reason to carry on discussion with you on this point, since you're still in denial about it involving Christ's Church.


You're making MUCH too much ado about this "Antichrist" character that's been dreamed up! Dani'el only mentions him as the "little horn." He IS the "Beast" of Revelation 13, and He IS the "one against the Torah" in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12, but he should NOT be called "Antichrist," except to acknowledge that he DOES exhibit the spirit (attitude) of one against the Messiah the same as many others do. In this respect, it is more of a case of semantics for me.

The dreaming is with those who listen to false prophets today that say there is no specific Antichrist false messiah/king coming. The warning of that coming false one is plentiful in God's Word. Christ called him 'a pseudo Christ' in Matthew 24 ("false Christs" per the Greek), and in Rev.13:11 the "another beast", and even in Rev.17 referred to him as a beast king with the symbols given there. Even in Rev.12:7 forward He showed us that's about Satan himself coming to this earth with his angels in the last days. So if you don't care to heed that as written, it's not my problem. And I will KEEP giving that specific WARNING from Scripture to the end of this world.


However, Dani'el 9 does NOT talk about him AT ALL! Dani'el 11 talks about Antiochus IV Epiphanes, but he is not related to the "Beast" AT ALL! Much of the connections made between Rev. & 2 Thes. and Dani'el are FABRICATED, INVENTED, MADE UP and FORCED! They are simply FALSIFIED, and thus, they are an ABUSE (ABnormal USE) of the Scriptures! That's all I'm saying. I believe in the "Beast/one against the Torah," but it is wrong to call him "Antichrist." And, what I meant by "dreamed up" above is that too much is attributed to him! He does/will exist, but not everything said about him will happen. For instance, the idea that he will "confirm a covenant with Isra'el" is trumped up because it comes SOLELY from a bad interpretation of Dani'el 9:27!

The fabrications are of those who are TRYING to hide what the Daniel, Matthew 24; Mark 13; 2 Thess.2; 2 Cor.11; Rev.9; 11; 12;13, and 17 Scriptures are pointing concerning a specific false messiah coming in the last days to setup himself up as God literally on this earth, sitting in a rebuilit stone temple in Jerusalem.

The word antichrist in the Greek can mean one who is against Christ, or one who comes 'in place of Christ'. The false one of Daniel that ends the daily sacrifices of the future, and places the abomination idol in false worship per Rev.13:11 forward, and sits in a temple in Jerusalem per 2 Thess.2:3-4 is quite enough Scripture evidence to be able to call that false one 'the Antichrist'. Since that will be Satan, the Devil himself, in person here on earth, ascending from the bottomless pit, and he once did that sin of wanting to play Christ at his original rebellion, it's a simple matter to grasp that's he going to try it again to deceive those today on earth that allow themselves to be deceived. It's a great Plan by our Heavenly Father to cull out those who refuse to listen to Him in His Word. So trying to downplay all that and think those Scripture warnings don't mean anything for us today puts you where in relation to that future false messiah event? Will you bow in worship to that another beast and take his mark, or will you stay in Christ Jesus, even to the death? Just how much importance do you place on your flesh vs. your soul?
 
The word antichrist in the Greek can mean one who is against Christ, or one who comes 'in place of Christ'.

Well now that you have provided us with the Greek (mans) definition lets see what Scripture actually says;

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.


Interesting isn't it that not one of those verses say antichrist or antichrists are instead of Christ. I think we would be better served to use the definitions Scripture provides over mans definition which changes the definition from one who denies Christ to one who replaces Christ. Using mans definitions instead of those provided by Scripture will lead to error.


Simply put antichrists deny Christ they do not come instead of Him, like false Christs do.
 

veteran

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Well now that you have provided us with the Greek (mans) definition lets see what Scripture actually says;

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.


Interesting isn't it that not one of those verses say antichrist or antichrists are instead of Christ. I think we would be better served to use the definitions Scripture provides over mans definition which changes the definition from one who denies Christ to one who replaces Christ. Using mans definitions instead of those provided by Scripture will lead to error.


Simply put antichrists deny Christ they do not come instead of Him, like false Christs do.

Your reasoning is silly, since the word "antichrist" in 1 John 2 is made up of TWO Greek words in the NT manuscripts, 'anti' and 'Christos'. Look up the Greek definition for 'anti' in a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance; that ought be easy enough to do.
 
Your reasoning is silly, since the word "antichrist" in 1 John 2 is made up of TWO Greek words in the NT manuscripts, 'anti' and 'Christos'. Look up the Greek definition for 'anti' in a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance; that ought be easy enough to do.

When Scripture provides us definitions we should use them. Using mans definitions instead of using the definitions Scripture itself provides can change the whole meaning of a verse.In this case it changes the meaning from those who deny Christ to those against or instead of Christ

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

By basing our beliefs on mans definition of antichrist, instead of what Scripture actually tells us antichrists are, could we arrive at a private interpretation that is in error? I think so. I don’t believe against or instead of is the same as denying, By man’s definitions antichrist are against or instead of Christ but by Scriptural definition they deny either the Father or the Son. Is that the same? Should we base our decision what antichrist is on what Scripture (God’s Word) says or on what Strong’s (mans definition) says? I’ll base my belief on what Scripture says, if you decide to stick with Strong’s definition instead it is certainly your choice. As you are led friend as you are led!
 

Trekson

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Hi Ridgerunner, I think you may be over simplifying things a bit. Yes, the "spirit of antichrist" has all those things mentioned in the scriptures you quoted and they have been around since the beginning of the church, but don't stop there.

The man who will become what we call the "anti-christ" will still proclaim all those false things about Christ BUT, he will have an agenda and that agenda will be to "prove" that Christ wasn't who he said he was and that he (the anti-christ) is! The sole purpose will be to receive unto himself the praise and worship due to God and Christ alone. So one can deny that Christ was of God AND still seek to be worshipped INSTEAD of Christ.
 
Hi Ridgerunner, I think you may be over simplifying things a bit. Yes, the "spirit of antichrist" has all those things mentioned in the scriptures you quoted and they have been around since the beginning of the church, but don't stop there.

The man who will become what we call the "anti-christ" will still proclaim all those false things about Christ BUT, he will have an agenda and that agenda will be to "prove" that Christ wasn't who he said he was and that he (the anti-christ) is! The sole purpose will be to receive unto himself the praise and worship due to God and Christ alone. So one can deny that Christ was of God AND still seek to be worshipped INSTEAD of Christ.



1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Are you denying that John told us who/what the antichrist we heard shall come was? Which verse that tells us about antichrists says “he will have an agenda and that agenda will be to prove Christ wasn’t who he said he was” and “that he (the antichrist) is”?
 

Trekson

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Hi Ridgerunner: Your verse" 1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time


In this verse, the first mention is singular and speaks, imo, of the a/c to come, the second mention is plural and is all that you described.
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, Mr. Rosenberger.

The role of the Ant-Christ is the government, where it takes over the position of The Church and State.
It's getting rid of any form of involvement of Christ.
The Ant-Christ mob are bastardising Christianity, they push it on TV in the schools, everywhere. pushing Christianity out as evil and pushing there socialist man made filthy creep show down on the poor blinded people, who do not have any idea as to what is in store for them.
Fact is, it's the same old creep show coming, as was with Nazis and the good old Como's. just different but you will always end up with a full on raving mad man running the show and everyone around him to scared to say jack for extreme fear of their life and others.
This garbage has been pushed for years, brain washing our youth with PC indoctrination.
I use to think my mum was being stupid when i asked her how did Hitler get to do what he did, i was about 7 years old then and she said they were like they were hypnotised. and i thought what a load of rubbish ! but now i see the same is true of people today, just hopeless fools off with the pixies with no direction at all, as they have no foundation.. they only look to them self's.

We're talking about an "antichrist," not "antichristian."
 
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
Hi Ridgerunner: Your verse"
In this verse, the first mention is singular and speaks, imo, of the a/c to come, the second mention is plural and is all that you described.


1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time



1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

John already told us who/what the singular antichrist from 1John2:18 was in the above verse. Look how beautifully parallel these two verse snippets are:
"ye have heard that antichrist shall come"
"ye have heard that it should come"
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, veteran.

The "commonwealth of Israel" label that Apostle Paul used in Ephesians 2 represents Christ's Church. Paul is giving that label in conjunction with the believing Gentiles he's speaking to there, telling them how they have become part of that commonwealth through belief on Christ Jesus. There is no one else that commonwealth of Israel can apply to except Christ's Church. It is THROUGH Christ's Blood shed upon the cross how believing Gentiles have become part of that "commonwealth of Israel". Thus that commonwealth is not a title for Christ Jesus Himself, but for His Body of believers, His Church. God's promises stayed with believing Israel which became Christ's Church, which is made up of both believing Israelites of the seed, and believing Gentiles. If this were not so, then it would make everything Apostle Paul taught in Romans 11 and elsewhere about Christ's many-membered Body fall to the ground.

Eph 2:11-13
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
(KJV)

Notice how that "commonwealth of Israel" label Paul declares is in connection with the "covenants of promise". That's about God's promises to Israel.

And, this is your first mistake. The "commonwealth (citizenship) of Isra'el" is NOT a LABEL!!!

Paul is talking about the population of ALL of Isra'el, ALL of his children! That's the citizenship of ALL twelve tribes! Paul was talking to the Gentile (non-Isra'elite) population in the Ephesian ekkleesia. Don't make it a label for the 10 Tribes or Christ's Church (which is ALSO treated as a label)! The citizenship of Isra'el, as that Kingdom that was under David the King and his son Shlomo and will be again under Yeshua` the King in the future contains ALL of those who can be treated as the citizens of Isra'el! That's all twelve tribes and proselytes and those who are adopted through the blood of Yeshua`! These are ALL the citizens of Yeshua`s future Isra'el.

The name Zadok simply means 'just' or 'righteous' in Hebrew. So that is not about some too much symbolism hogwash idea. It's about Christ's elect kings and priests per His promise in Rev.1:6; Rev.5:10; Rev.20:6. It's about that "commonwealth of Israel" meaning per Paul in Eph.2, which is ONLY about believers on Christ Jesus, i.e., His Church. Otherwise, per the vain Orthodox Jewish idea you espouse, it would mean unbelievers of Israel ruling over Christ's Church during Christ's future Milennium there in Ezekiel, which of course is an absurd idea of deceived Jews that still refuse Yahshu'a of Nazareth as Messiah.

We are talking about a REAL family within the tribe of Leviy. We know this because of the very REAL offenses of this family of people! We're not talking about some nebulous "sons of the just" or "sons of the righteous" your proverbial "Christ's Church" vs. everybody else! Let me give you a simple passage of Scripture that proves you wrong about who will be ruling during the future Millennium:

Ezekiel 37:19-28
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28 And the heathen shall know that I the Lord do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
KJV

Notice that this passage does NOT say that the SON of David would be their prince but that David himself would be that prince! Thus, we have TWO that shall reign mentioned here: Yeshua` as the "one shepherd," and David the king! Add to them the ones who will reign as "kings and priests," and we see a simple hierarchy of three levels, Yeshua` the King of Kings, the other rulers, and the other subjects

Oh, I know very well what I'm talking about per God's Word. Only the faithful in Christ's Church will rule in Christ's future Kingdom on earth. And once again, who all did Paul declare makes up Christ's Church? Believing Israelites and Gentiles as ONE BODY. You cannot reverse what Paul declared about those who are 'cut off' because of 'unbelief' (Rom.11).

Aw, sure I can, because PAUL DID!

Romans 11:11-29
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
KJV


Here it is again in the Complete Jewish Bible:

Rom 11:11-29
11 “In that case, I say, isn’t it that they have stumbled with the result that they have permanently fallen away?” Heaven forbid! Quite the contrary, it is by means of their stumbling that the deliverance has come to the Gentiles, in order to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Moreover, if their stumbling is bringing riches to the world — that is, if Isra’el’s being placed temporarily in a condition less favored than that of the Gentiles is bringing riches to the latter — how much greater riches will Isra’el in its fullness bring them!
13 However, to those of you who are Gentiles I say this: since I myself am an emissary sent to the Gentiles, I make known the importance of my work 14 in the hope that somehow I may provoke some of my own people to jealousy and save some of them! 15 For if their casting Yeshua aside means reconciliation for the world, what will their accepting him mean? It will be life from the dead!

16 Now if the hallah offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole loaf. And if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you — a wild olive — were grafted in among them and have become equal sharers in the rich root of the olive tree, 18 then don’t boast as if you were better than the branches! However, if you do boast, remember that you are not supporting the root, the root is supporting you. 19 So you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 True, but so what? They were broken off because of their lack of trust. However, you keep your place only because of your trust. So don’t be arrogant; on the contrary, be terrified! 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he certainly won’t spare you! 22 So take a good look at God’s kindness and his severity: on the one hand, severity toward those who fell off; but, on the other hand, God’s kindness toward you — provided you maintain yourself in that kindness! Otherwise, you too will be cut off! 23 Moreover, the others, if they do not persist in their lack of trust, will be grafted in; because God is able to graft them back in. 24 For if you were cut out of what is by nature a wild olive tree and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these natural branches be grafted back into their own olive tree!

25 For, brothers, I want you to understand this truth which God formerly concealed but has now revealed, so that you won’t imagine you know more than you actually do. It is that stoniness, to a degree, has come upon Isra’el, until the Gentile world enters in its fullness; 26 and that it is in this way that all Isra’el will be saved. As the Tanakh says,

“Out of Tziyon will come the Redeemer;
he will turn away ungodliness from Ya‘akov
27 and this will be my covenant with them, . . .
when I take away their sins.” (Isa. 59:20-21; 27:9)


28 With respect to the Good News they are hated for your sake. But with respect to being chosen they are loved for the Patriarchs’ sake, 29 for God’s free gifts and his calling are irrevocable.
CJB


If you can't see that from this passage, then YOU are equally as blinded as they! Despite the blindness in part and despite them having temporarily fallen, they WILL BE grafted back into THEIR OWN OLIVE TREE, again! God's covenant with them IS when He takes away their sins!!! His taking away their sins IS the covenant! It IS the AGREEMENT! And, it is IRREVOCABLE!!!

Obviously, you need to re-read the Ezekiel 44 Scripture as written that the Levites that fell away will bear their iniquity in that time, and that our Heavenly Father reveals that point through Ezekiel. Should do that instead of trying idolize a 'seed' of people. And you are not disagreeing with me; you are disagreeing with the Ezekiel Scripture as written, which our Heavenly Father through His prophet Ezekiel. Levites there = apostates; Zadok (Righteous) = Christ's elect faithful, i.e., His Church.

I see no reason to carry on discussion with you on this point, since you're still in denial about it involving Christ's Church.

Since you continue to say "this means that" and "that means this," you're right that there's no reason to continue this discussion. With your incessant symbolism and hyperbole, and the way you keep making "Christ's Church" a label, this blind spot you have will continue to make the truth elusive. In a nutshell, ZADOK WAS A PERSON!!! I'm not "idolizing a 'seed' of people"; I'm trying to get you to see that the local gatherings of people that are called "ekkleesiai" in the Greek, are simply combined WITH the Isra'elites of history and their children to make up the KINGDOM OF GOD that Yeshua` talked about! It's not "believing Isra'el + believing Gentiles = Church"; it's "believing 'Church' + Isra'el-born-in-a-day = Kingdom!"

The dreaming is with those who listen to false prophets today that say there is no specific Antichrist false messiah/king coming. The warning of that coming false one is plentiful in God's Word. Christ called him 'a pseudo Christ' in Matthew 24 ("false Christs" per the Greek), and in Rev.13:11 the "another beast", and even in Rev.17 referred to him as a beast king with the symbols given there. Even in Rev.12:7 forward He showed us that's about Satan himself coming to this earth with his angels in the last days. So if you don't care to heed that as written, it's not my problem. And I will KEEP giving that specific WARNING from Scripture to the end of this world.

The fabrications are of those who are TRYING to hide what the Daniel, Matthew 24; Mark 13; 2 Thess.2; 2 Cor.11; Rev.9; 11; 12;13, and 17 Scriptures are pointing concerning a specific false messiah coming in the last days to setup himself up as God literally on this earth, sitting in a rebuilit stone temple in Jerusalem.

The word antichrist in the Greek can mean one who is against Christ, or one who comes 'in place of Christ'. The false one of Daniel that ends the daily sacrifices of the future, and places the abomination idol in false worship per Rev.13:11 forward, and sits in a temple in Jerusalem per 2 Thess.2:3-4 is quite enough Scripture evidence to be able to call that false one 'the Antichrist'. Since that will be Satan, the Devil himself, in person here on earth, ascending from the bottomless pit, and he once did that sin of wanting to play Christ at his original rebellion, it's a simple matter to grasp that's he going to try it again to deceive those today on earth that allow themselves to be deceived. It's a great Plan by our Heavenly Father to cull out those who refuse to listen to Him in His Word. So trying to downplay all that and think those Scripture warnings don't mean anything for us today puts you where in relation to that future false messiah event? Will you bow in worship to that another beast and take his mark, or will you stay in Christ Jesus, even to the death? Just how much importance do you place on your flesh vs. your soul?

No. I don't think so, Tim. This is really a non-issue. Just change the terminology from "Antichrist" to "the Beast" and we're good! I've never said that there wasn't such a person in prophecy; I've just said that he is named WRONGLY! Oh, and also that he is not to be found in Dani'el 9 or in Matthew 24 or Mark 13 directly! He's found in Revelation 13ff and in 2 Thessalonians 2 and in Dani'el 7. The "false messiahs" started with Simon bar Kokhba in the 150 A.D. revolt and has continued through David Koresh and whoever else tries to set themselves up as a messiah after him! The Beast will be ONE of the many! Just don't make him out to be some "super villain" and don't find him in every chapter of the Bible! 2 Cor. 11:13-15 is not about the Beast; it's about the deception of haSatan! He portrays himself as a messenger of the Light to those who can't see through his tactics! Revelation 9? Neither the fifth shofar nor the beginning of the sixth shofar is about the Beast! Revelation 11, talking about the end of the 42-month ministry of the two prophets called as witnesses, looks forward to the Beast out of the earth in Revelation 13:11ff, not back to Revelation 9. Don't make the mistake of assuming this refers back to the king of the locusts. I find no reason to think those creatures won't be literal.

Sometimes, I really find myself wishing that we could somehow work this out point by point and come to a consensus. I feel like we're not that far apart, despite all the rhetoric.
 

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
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Southeast USA
Shalom, veteran.



And, this is your first mistake. The "commonwealth (citizenship) of Isra'el" is NOT a LABEL!!!

Paul is talking about the population of ALL of Isra'el, ALL of his children! That's the citizenship of ALL twelve tribes! Paul was talking to the Gentile (non-Isra'elite) population in the Ephesian ekkleesia. Don't make it a label for the 10 Tribes or Christ's Church (which is ALSO treated as a label)! The citizenship of Isra'el, as that Kingdom that was under David the King and his son Shlomo and will be again under Yeshua` the King in the future contains ALL of those who can be treated as the citizens of Isra'el! That's all twelve tribes and proselytes and those who are adopted through the blood of Yeshua`! These are ALL the citizens of Yeshua`s future Isra'el.

Paul is SPECIFICALLY talking to believing Gentiles with saying that "commonwealth of Israel" phrase to point to Christ's Church which they had become part of. Anyone not of that particular "commonwealth of Israel" Paul mentions is cut off from Christ's Church. So yes, that phrase is a LABEL that represents Yehovah's Israel under Christ Jesus, His Church. The idea of a label is neutral; it's what a label represents where meaning originates, so your words against the mere word label is a straw man argument.

The ten tribes of Israel that were scattered primarily to the West and became the "multitude of nations" per the Gen.48 prophecy to Ephraim, do represent that "commonwealth of Israel" today, which is why it was with them that Christ established His Church centuries ago. But they are not alone, as all believing Gentiles everywhere have been graffed in also, which is why it is a label for Christ's Church, and NOT the nation state of Israel in the holy land today which houses a majority of unbelievers.


We are talking about a REAL family within the tribe of Leviy. We know this because of the very REAL offenses of this family of people! We're not talking about some nebulous "sons of the just" or "sons of the righteous" your proverbial "Christ's Church" vs. everybody else! Let me give you a simple passage of Scripture that proves you wrong about who will be ruling during the future Millennium:

Ezekiel 37:19-28
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28 And the heathen shall know that I the Lord do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
KJV

Notice that this passage does NOT say that the SON of David would be their prince but that David himself would be that prince! Thus, we have TWO that shall reign mentioned here: Yeshua` as the "one shepherd," and David the king! Add to them the ones who will reign as "kings and priests," and we see a simple hierarchy of three levels, Yeshua` the King of Kings, the other rulers, and the other subjects

Levites there is not only about blood Israelites. Otherwise Christians leaders today that lead astray would be walking with the Zadok who will serve Christ in His Presence then. The fact that the Zadok represent the righteous elect priests that will reign with Christ then reveals this cannot be tied to bloodline seed theories, even though David himself will be our prince then too.



Aw, sure I can, because PAUL DID!

Romans 11:11-29
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
KJV


And yet, the Ezek.44 Scripture reveals the Levites are saved, yet not allowed to approach Christ in that time, but ONLY the Zadok may approach Christ then. And that Scripture is clear that the Levite priests will bear their iniquity by those duties assigned to them. Thus they are under a probation in that time. It is in that... sense, that they are still cut off.

Rev.20 gives more detail about that difference too, with those of the "first resurrection" vs. everyone else. Only those of the first resurrection will reign with Christ as kings and priests. That means everyone else will STILL be subject to the "second death".
 

lawrance

New Member
Mar 30, 2011
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Shalom, Mr. Rosenberger.



We're talking about an "antichrist," not "antichristian."
And if there were many strong Christians the Anti-Christ would not have a hope of coming about , now would he ?
So today people are so weak and the time is ripe.
We in Australia have a PM leader who is not only not married but a full on Atheist and the people just sit back and let this nonsense happen. and we can not say anything Christian for fear of, offending the trash it wants to live hear. due to there PC fascist madness.