The Sabbath Day and Jesus

[Ziggy]

A Christophany

A Christophany is an appearance or non-physical manifestation of Christ. Traditionally the term refers to visions of Christ after his ascension, such as the bright light of the conversion of Paul the Apostle.

Kind of like a burning bush, or handwriting on a wall.

 

[ChristisGod]

I asked you specifically what does John 1:14 mean to you. You said it means that Jesus is God. Saying something like that in regards to John 1:14, "that Jesus is God" is saying that it was God who became man/human. That's denying the Only Begotten Son of God became man/human.

1-The Word was God ( John 1:1)
2-The Word(God)became flesh ( John 1:14)
3-God became a man( The Incarnation - John 1:14)
4-God manifest in the flesh. ( 1 Timothy 3:16)
5-All the Fulness of the Godhead(Deity) dwells in Christ ( Colossians 1:19; 2:9)
6-Jesus Christ is the True God and Eternal Life ( 1 John 5:20)
7-Jesus Christ is our Great God and Savior ( Titus 2:13)
8-Jesus Christ is our God and Savior ( 2 Peter 1:1)
9- Jesus Christ is the Lord God ( Revelation 1:8)
10- Jesus Christ is the Alpha and Omega ( Revelation 1:8; 21:6;21:22;22:13)

hope this helps !!!

 

[ChristisGod]

A Christophany is an appearance or non-physical manifestation of Christ. Traditionally the term refers to visions of Christ after his ascension, such as the bright light of the conversion of Paul the Apostle.

Kind of like a burning bush, or handwriting on a wall.

Its an appearance of the Son pre Incarnation in the O.T.

 

[Ziggy]

Its an appearance of the Son pre Incarnation in the O.T.

I think Jesus goes up and down Jacob's ladder as often as he likes.
That's why we are told to feed the poor, entertain strangers.. because you never know who may be walking across your path.
Kind of like Peter when Jesus was walking along the beach and asked them "Children, have ye any meat? "
And they said "NO"
But when they come on shore imagine the surprise there was 5 loaves of bread and fishes in the frying pan, jus waiting for them.

They was supposed to be fishing for men, instead, Jesus caught them.

You never know...
Hugs

 

[BarneyFife]

Therefore He did not sin; even though He violated what was previously on the books as being the letter of the sabbath day laws.

Theological hobby horsemanship. Sin is the transgression of the law. If Jesus broke the Sabbath, He sinned, and is therefore disqualified as Savior.

 

[BarneyFife]

I think Jesus goes up and down Jacob's ladder as often as he likes.
That's why we are told to feed the poor, entertain strangers.. because you never know who may be walking across your path.
Kind of like Peter when Jesus was walking along the beach and asked them "Children, have ye any meat? "
And they said "NO"
But when they come on shore imagine the surprise there was 5 loaves of bread and fishes in the frying pan, jus waiting for them.

They was supposed to be fishing for men, instead, Jesus caught them.

You never know...
Hugs

Jesus is the Ladder.

 

[justbyfaith]

Theological hobby horsemanship. Sin is the transgression of the law. If Jesus broke the Sabbath, He sinned, and is therefore disqualified as Savior.

Jesus did break the sabbath, very clearly in scripture (John 5:16-18, Exodus 20:10).

But He did not sin in that; because 1) He is the Lord of the sabbath, 2) He is high priest according to the order of Melchizedec; and therefore 3) He came not after the law of a carnal commandment but after the power of an endless life.

As Lord of the sabbath He was able to re-define the sabbath (see Hebrews 7:12).

Jesus violated the law as the scribes and Pharisees had interpreted it from holy scripture. And He also said,

Mat 23:1, Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2, Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3, All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

He is there saying that the interpretations of the scribes and Pharisees on the law were accurate and to be obeyed.

But He also gives Himself the same authority to interpret the law when He says that He is the Lord of the sabbath.

The scribes and Pharisees interpreted correctly what the Old Testament law taught us to do when it came to sabbath laws; but Jesus taught correctly the re-definition of what the sabbath law requires according to Hebrews 7:12.

Being Lord of the sabbath and the sabbath not being the lord of Him meant that He was able to re-define the sabbath law and it means that in violating the letter as the scribes and Pharisees interpreted it was not the same as violating the true law of the Lord; because Jesus made a course correction as concerning the law when He came and set it on the right path.

But it is also true that the letter of the sabbath day laws is that you shall not do "any" work on the sabbath day.

The spirit of that law is different; and Jesus set an example for us by showing that we are not bound by the letter but are obedient to the spirit of what is written as those who have the Holy Spirit (Romans 7:6, Romans 8:4).

The change in law (Hebrews 7:12) was not a change in what was contained in the law therefore but was a change from being bound by the letter to being obedient to the spirit of the law.

 

[BarneyFife]

Jesus did break the sabbath, very clearly in scripture (John 5:16-18, Exodus 20:10).

But He did not sin in that; because 1) He is the Lord of the sabbath, 2) He is high priest according to the order of Melchizedec; and therefore 3) He came not after the law of a carnal commandment but after the power of an endless life.

As Lord of the sabbath He was able to re-define the sabbath (see Hebrews 7:12).

Jesus violated the law as the scribes and Pharisees had interpreted it from holy scripture. And He also said,

Mat 23:1, Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2, Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3, All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

He is there saying that the interpretations of the scribes and Pharisees on the law were accurate and to be obeyed.

But He also gives Himself the same authority to interpret the law when He says that He is the Lord of the sabbath.

The scribes and Pharisees interpreted correctly what the Old Testament law taught us to do when it came to sabbath laws; but Jesus taught correctly the re-definition of what the sabbath law requires according to Hebrews 7:12.

Being Lord of the sabbath and the sabbath not being the lord of Him meant that He was able to re-define the sabbath law and it means that in violating the letter as the scribes and Pharisees interpreted it was not the same as violating the true law of the Lord; because Jesus made a course correction as concerning the law when He came and set it on the right path.

But it is also true that the letter of the sabbath day laws is that you shall not do "any" work on the sabbath day.

The spirit of that law is different; and Jesus set an example for us by showing that we are not bound by the letter but are obedient to the spirit of what is written as those who have the Holy Spirit (Romans 7:6, Romans 8:4).

The change in law (Hebrews 7:12) was not a change in what was contained in the law therefore but was a change from being bound by the letter to being obedient to the spirit of the law.

Baloney and sophistry. I stand by my original statement. No verbose dancing or dodging required.

 

[ChristisGod]

Baloney and sophistry. I stand by my original statement. No verbose dancing or dodging required.

walking the tightrope

 

[justbyfaith]

Baloney and sophistry. I stand by my original statement. No verbose dancing or dodging required.

Apparently Jesus claimed to be violating the sabbath day in John 5:16-17. Was He lying?

John the apostle's estimation under inspiration of the Holy Ghost was that Jesus did indeed break the sabbath (John 5:18).

In Exodus 20:10, it should be clear that those who do "any" work on the sabbath day are violating it.

Jesus said, on the sabbath day (John 5:16), My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. (John 5:17)

John said under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost that the Pharisees sought the more to kill him because of this; because He not only brake the sabbath but said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God (John 5:18).

 

[ChristisGod]

Apparently Jesus claimed to be violating the sabbath day in John 5:16-17. Was He lying?

John the apostle's estimation under inspiration of the Holy Ghost was that Jesus did indeed break the sabbath (John 5:18).

In Exodus 20:10, it should be clear that those who do "any" work on the sabbath day are violating it.

Jesus said, on the sabbath day (John 5:16), My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. (John 5:17)

If the Son was guilty of breaking the sabbath then by your reasoning so was the Father and the Holy Spirit.

 

[justbyfaith]

walking the tightrope

The way to life is narrow...

 

[justbyfaith]

If the Son was guilty of breaking the sabbath then by your reasoning so was the Father and the Holy Spirit.

However, neither the Father, nor the Son, nor the Holy Spirit sinned in this...because each one of them is the Lord of the sabbath and are not subject to the laws as they were relegated before they were changed (Hebrews 7:12).

 

[BarneyFife]

Apparently Jesus claimed to be violating the sabbath day in John 5:16-17. Was He lying?

John the apostle's estimation under inspiration of the Holy Ghost was that Jesus did indeed break the sabbath (John 5:18).

In Exodus 20:10, it should be clear that those who do "any" work on the sabbath day are violating it.

Jesus said, on the sabbath day (John 5:16), My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. (John 5:17)

John said under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost that the Pharisees sought the more to kill him because of this; because He not only brake the sabbath but said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God (John 5:18).

Pile up all the proof texts you want, JBF, I know what sin is. God held up the worlds and kept them spinning on the first Sabbath, but the Bible says He rested. If you can't handle a paradox, you'll have trouble understanding Scripture.

 

[BarneyFife]

However, neither the Father, nor the Son, nor the Holy Spirit sinned in this...because each one of them is the Lord of the sabbath and are not subject to the laws as they were relegated before they were changed (Hebrews 7:12).

It seems we're having trouble nailing down the start point of the new covenant now.

 

[BarneyFife]

For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. (Hebrews 4:15)

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (1 John 3:4)

 

[BarneyFife]

Jesus had come to “magnify the law, and make it honorable.” He was not to lessen its dignity, but to exalt it. The scripture says, “He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till He have set judgment in the earth.” Isaiah 42:21, 4. He had come to free the Sabbath from those burdensome requirements that had made it a curse instead of a blessing.

For this reason He had chosen the Sabbath upon which to perform the act of healing at Bethesda. He could have healed the sick man as well on any other day of the week; or He might simply have cured him, without bidding him bear away his bed. But this would not have given Him the opportunity He desired. A wise purpose underlay every act of Christ’s life on earth. Everything He did was important in itself and in its teaching. Among the afflicted ones at the pool He selected the worst case upon whom to exercise His healing power, and bade the man carry his bed through the city in order to publish the great work that had been wrought upon him. This would raise the question of what it was lawful to do on the Sabbath, and would open the way for Him to denounce the restrictions of the Jews in regard to the Lord’s day, and to declare their traditions void.

Jesus stated to them that the work of relieving the afflicted was in harmony with the Sabbath law. It was in harmony with the work of God’s angels, who are ever descending and ascending between heaven and earth to minister to suffering humanity. Jesus declared, “My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.” All days are God’s, in which to carry out His plans for the human race. If the Jews’ interpretation of the law was correct, then Jehovah was at fault, whose work has quickened and upheld every living thing since first He laid the foundations of the earth; then He who pronounced His work good, and instituted the Sabbath to commemorate its completion, must put a period to His labor, and stop the never-ending routine of the universe.

Should God forbid the sun to perform its office upon the Sabbath, cut off its genial rays from warming the earth and nourishing vegetation? Must the system of worlds stand still through that holy day? Should He command the brooks to stay from watering the fields and forests, and bid the waves of the sea still their ceaseless ebbing and flowing? Must the wheat and corn stop growing, and the ripening cluster defer its purple bloom? Must the trees and flowers put forth no bud nor blossom on the Sabbath? {DA 206.4}
In such a case, men would miss the fruits of the earth, and the blessings that make life desirable. Nature must continue her unvarying course. God could not for a moment stay His hand, or man would faint and die. And man also has a work to perform on this day. The necessities of life must be attended to, the sick must be cared for, the wants of the needy must be supplied. He will not be held guiltless who neglects to relieve suffering on the Sabbath. God’s holy rest day was made for man, and acts of mercy are in perfect harmony with its intent. God does not desire His creatures to suffer an hour’s pain that may be relieved upon the Sabbath or any other day.

The demands upon God are even greater upon the Sabbath than upon other days. His people then leave their usual employment, and spend the time in meditation and worship. They ask more favors of Him on the Sabbath than upon other days. They demand His special attention. They crave His choicest blessings. God does not wait for the Sabbath to pass before He grants these requests. Heaven’s work never ceases, and men should never rest from doing good. The Sabbath is not intended to be a period of useless inactivity. The law forbids secular labor on the rest day of the Lord; the toil that gains a livelihood must cease; no labor for worldly pleasure or profit is lawful upon that day; but as God ceased His labor of creating, and rested upon the Sabbath and blessed it, so man is to leave the occupations of his daily life, and devote those sacred hours to healthful rest, to worship, and to holy deeds. The work of Christ in healing the sick was in perfect accord with the law. It honored the Sabbath.

Jesus claimed equal rights with God in doing a work equally sacred, and of the same character with that which engaged the Father in heaven. But the Pharisees were still more incensed. He had not only broken the law, according to their understanding, but in calling God “His own Father” had declared Himself equal with God. John 5:18,

 

[Ziggy]

Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.


Isa 58:4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.
Isa 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?
Isa 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Isa 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
Isa 58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.
Isa 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;
Isa 58:10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:
Isa 58:11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
Isa 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Isa 58:14Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Jhn 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

 

[justbyfaith]

Again, it is only the letter that Jesus violated on the sabbath day by doing work on that day.

He did not violate the spirit of what the law is all about; because He re-defined the sabbath day law according to the spirit; so that the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath; and it is lawful to do well on sabbath days; because Jesus is the Lord of the sabbath.

Our obedience to the law is not about keeping the letter perfectly (Romans 7:6); and neither was this the case with the Lord.

In fact, Jesus healed on the sabbath day to set the example that where two laws collide, the greater of two goods or the lesser of two evils is to be chosen. For Jesus, in healing a man on the sabbath, was being obedient to the command to "love thy neighbor as thyself" even though He basically violated the letter of what it says in Exodus 20:10--that thou shalt not do "any" work on the sabbath days.

Love is the fulfilling of the law. If you love someone in a practical manner on the sabbath day and this means work, you are being obedient to the spirit of the law even though you would be violating the letter.

Under the New Covenant, it is not the letter that matters any more; it is the spirit (Romans 7:6, 2 Corinthians 3:6).

 

[Ziggy]

Again, it is only the letter that Jesus violated on the sabbath day by doing work on that day.

He did not violate the spirit of what the law is all about; because He re-defined the sabbath day law according to the spirit; so that the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath; and it is lawful to do well on sabbath days; because Jesus is the Lord of the sabbath.

Our obedience to the law is not about keeping the letter perfectly (Romans 7:6); and neither was this the case with the Lord.

In fact, Jesus healed on the sabbath day to set the example that where two laws collide, the greater of two goods or the lesser of two evils is to be chosen. For Jesus, in healing a man on the sabbath, was being obedient to the command to "love thy neighbor as thyself" even though He basically violated the letter of what it says in Exodus 20:10--that thou shalt not do "any" work on the sabbath days.

Love is the fulfilling of the law. If you love someone in a practical manner on the sabbath day and this means work, you are being obedient to the spirit of the law even though you would be violating the letter.

Under the New Covenant, it is not the letter that matters any more; it is the spirit (Romans 7:6, 2 Corinthians 3:6).

I don't recall the "letter" stating you couldn't help someone though. It says no work. I understand work as a means to make an income or a profit.

And also I believe it was the LEvitical Priesthood that were to keep the candles burning continually even on the sabbath.

Lev 24:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Lev 24:2 Command the children of Israel, that they bring unto thee pure oil olive beaten for the light, to cause the lamps to burn continually.
Lev 24:3 Without the vail of the testimony, in the tabernacle of the congregation, shall Aaron order it from the evening unto the morning before the LORD continually: it shall be a statute for ever in your generations.
Lev 24:4 He shall order the lamps upon the pure candlestick before the LORD continually.
Lev 24:5 And thou shalt take fine flour, and bake twelve cakes thereof: two tenth deals shall be in one cake.
Lev 24:6 And thou shalt set them in two rows, six on a row, upon the pure table before the LORD.
Lev 24:7 And thou shalt put pure frankincense upon each row, that it may be on the bread for a memorial, even an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
Lev 24:8 Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.
Lev 24:9 And it shall be Aaron's and his sons'; and they shall eat it in the holy place: for it is most holy unto him of the offerings of the LORD made by fire by a perpetual statute.

Psa 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

Heb 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Heb 3:2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
Heb 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
Heb 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
Heb 3:5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.