The Sabbath Day

[Ronald Nolette]

The law of sin and death referred to in Romans 8:2 is described in Romans 6:23.

And you know this empirically how?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The law makes us aware of what sin is . GOD didnt send something to strengthen SIN , rather to teach them .
The thing is the law cannot justify us . Read the whole message .

God knew it would strenghten sin, just like He knew that Adam would fall. He allowed it for His reasons. I will not redefine the Scriptures unless the text forces me to.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Most believers actually do not reject how Jesus counted days referring to His death and resurrection,. Otherwise, we wouldn't have Good Friday and Resurrection Sunday.

But this line is a rabbit trail from the op of this thread.

 

[amigo de christo]

God knew it would strenghten sin, just like He knew that Adam would fall. He allowed it for His reasons. I will not redefine the Scriptures unless the text forces me to.

Well the law cannot justify us . just know that . And also know that if we have the true agape love that comes from GOD
on our hearts , we would love righteousness and not sin .

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The law makes us aware of what sin is . GOD didnt send something to strengthen SIN , rather to teach them .
The thing is the law cannot justify us . Read the whole message .

Romans 7 is the bvest commentary how the law defines and makes sin strong in our flesh.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Well the law cannot justify us . just know that . And also know that if we have the true agape love that comes from GOD
on our hearts , we would love righteousness and not sin .

That is what being born again does to us! It moves us in teh direction of God and we learn to love righteousness more and more.

 

[amigo de christo]

Romans 7 is the bvest commentary how the law defines and makes sin strong in our flesh.

IT makes us aware of what sin is . I had not known lust , lest the law had said ye shall not covet .
The law clearly states what GOD considers evil and what he considers good . The thing is the flesh , the carnal mind of man
is enmity with GOD . A solid fact that folks need THE SAVOIR . WHO changes us and gives us a new heart .

 

[Ronald Nolette]

IT makes us aware of what sin is . I had not known lust , lest the law had said ye shall not covet .
The law clearly states what GOD considers evil and what he considers good . The thing is the flesh , the carnal mind of man
is enmity with GOD . A solid fact that folks need THE SAVOIR . WHO changes us and gives us a new heart .

And because our flesh is opposed to the things of God, it strengthens sin in our members to deceive and slay us!

 

[amigo de christo]

And because our flesh is opposed to the things of God, it strengthens sin in our members to deceive and slay us!

So in essence you are saying the law causes us to sin . Now think about that for a second .
Whose fault would that imply it is when a person sins . If you tell your child not to steal and yet he steals
Was it your fault for telling your child stealing is wrong and he should not sin . NO . You did right in telling your child
stealing is wrong and not to do it . Somehow you are seeing this wrong .

 

[BarneyFife]

Acc ording to you! but commenting on how I answer keeps you from addressing the OP.

Not according to me—you didn't address any of the points I made in my refutation of the standard, superficial interpretation of 2nd Corinthians, chapter 3.

And we weren't discussing the OP. The topic of the Sabbath eventually forays into an attack on the ten commandments as a whole, which you did. That's how this works, unfortunately. Of course, no one will object to the other 9.

And you know this empirically how?

You might want to look up the word "empirical."

Sin brings about death per Romans 6:23 and James 1:15. The law only points out sin. Romans 7:7 plainly says both this and that the law is not sin. In fact, 1 john 3:4 says that sin is lawlessness.

This is all so very simple. I really can't understand why folks kick and scream about it.

But this line is a rabbit trail from the op of this thread.

You brought it up, Ron. And then when I agreed with you (as nearly all Christians do) you retorted with: "Good for you."

Are we ever going to get around to an adult discussion, Ron?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Was it also a grievous, unreasonable yoke to abstain from idol worship, murder, theft, adultery, or covetousness?

The rest of grace in Hebrews 4 is not the rest of the 4th commandment.

That is what Acts 15:10 states, the whole Law is a yoke that we cannot bear, nor was it meant for us to keep. "whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put
to death." You have not kept the Sabbath perfectly, have you _ ALL 256 Sabbath laws? Did you ever work on that day Barney? Andy told me otherwise, said you had to come in on the weekends sometimes. Death to you Barney Fife. Let us gather stones, today you meet your Maker! And then we shall all be stoned too, all of us_ tomorrow_ em_ or maybe the next day ... wait, then there won't be any more Christians left ... opps ... maybe we should not wear that yoke?

 

[BarneyFife]

That is what Acts 15:10 states, the whole Law is a yoke that we cannot bear, nor was it meant for us to keep. "whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put
to death." You have not kept the Sabbath perfectly, have you _ ALL 256 Sabbath laws? Did you ever work on that day Barney? Andy told me otherwise, said you had to come in on the weekends sometimes. Death to you Barney Fife. Let us gather stones, today you meet your Maker! And then we shall all be stoned too, all of us_ tomorrow_ em_ or maybe the next day ... wait, then there won't be any more Christians left ... opps ... maybe we should not wear that yoke?

256? Binary?

Humor is good; we all need a hearty laugh now and then.

Would you apply the same principle to the other nine commandments?

Perhaps if I were ever angry toward my neighbor without just cause, you might have me run over there and just shoot him between the eyes, since I'd already murdered him in my heart?

Or isn't that funny?
m

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Would you apply the same principle to the other nine commandments?

The point is, God gave that death sentence to the Israelites if they worked on the Sabbath. It isn't applicable to us. Or do you think it applies to you?
Any sin means death, the wages of sin is death unless you have been forgiven. So no yoke for me, just joke.

Perhaps if I were ever angry toward my neighbor without just cause, you might have me run over there and just shoot him between the eyes, since I'd already murdered him in my heart?

No, we are under the law of love, not the law of sin and death. You can choose to be under the Law if you want ... you'll just be judged by it though.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

So in essence you are saying the law causes us to sin . Now think about that for a second .
Whose fault would that imply it is when a person sins . If you tell your child not to steal and yet he steals
Was it your fault for telling your child stealing is wrong and he should not sin . NO . You did right in telling your child
stealing is wrong and not to do it . Somehow you are seeing this wrong .

the fault is the persons own nature and sin which dwells in it. Once again I am simply relaying th eScripture without adding or interpreting it, but accepting it as it was written.

Teh law strengthens sin in us. It was not designed that way, but god knew this would be th eresult and allowed it. It is not Gods fault or the laws fault, but our own nature which is at war with god!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Not according to me—you didn't address any of the points I made in my refutation of the standard, superficial interpretation of 2nd Corinthians, chapter 3.

I cannot answer your interpretation. I can only answer what is written and not how you see it as you want to. YOur commentary is different that what God said.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You might want to look up the word "empirical."

Sin brings about death per Romans 6:23 and James 1:15. The law only points out sin. Romans 7:7 plainly says both this and that the law is not sin. In fact, 1 john 3:4 says that sin is lawlessness.

This is all so very simple. I really can't understand why folks kick and scream about it.

Yes the law does that, but it is also called a ministry of death and done away with. Why do yoiu accept those verses as literal, but feel compelled to view 2 Cor. 3 with a need to explain what you think God meant?

You brought it up, Ron. And then when I agreed with you (as nearly all Christians do) you retorted with: "Good for you."

Are we ever going to get around to an adult discussion, Ron?

Well I have been having one, sorry if you do not see it!

It is good for you. You reaD TOO MUCH IN WHAT I WRITE. BUT THEN AGAIN YOU DO THE SAME TO SCRIPTURE, SO WHY SHOULD I BE SURPRISED WHEN YOU INTERPRET MY WOIRDS BASED ON YOUR BIASES.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You might want to look up the word "empirical."

wELL I KNOW WHAT IT MEANS- IT MEANS ACTUAL OBSERVABLE PROVEN EVIDENCE BY OBSERVATION, SENSORY CONCLUSIONS OR VERIFICATION.

Which is why I asked you for empirical evidence for your conclusion as to what you think 2 Cor. 3 means other than how it is written.

 

[BarneyFife]

The point is, God gave that death sentence to the Israelites if they worked on the Sabbath. It isn't applicable to us. Or do you think it applies to you?
Any sin means death, the wages of sin is death unless you have been forgiven. So no yoke for me, just joke.


No, we are under the law of love, not the law of sin and death. You can choose to be under the Law if you want ... you'll just be judged by it though.

This is probably the most evasive and obstinate reply you've ever given me, Ron. You can say that the point is whatever you want it to be, thus avoiding addressing the answer that I gave for a common objection to the perpetuity of the 4th commandment, but it's not a good look.

"Or do you think it applies to you?"

Facetiousness? Have you read my signature line?

You're too smart to be pulling such stunts. If you refuse to reply to the defense given and just double down, I guess that's okay.

 

[BarneyFife]

Teh law strengthens sin in us.

The law strengthens conviction of sin in us.

I cannot answer your interpretation. I can only answer what is written and not how you see it as you want to. YOur commentary is different that what God said.

Well at least you're honest about not being able to or wanting to address my "interpretation." All scripture has to be structured in a person's mind in a way that they can store and practice it (interpreted). This is the way language works. Deny it all you like.

Why do yoiu accept those verses as literal, but feel compelled to view 2 Cor. 3 with a need to explain what you think God meant?

Because when one passage of Scripture appears to contradict another, a process of reconciliation has to take place. Well, it doesn't actually have to take place. One can just ignore the verses they don't like—such as the ones that uphold the authority of God's law. That is always an option. But if one does that, then they dispute the principle that all Scripture is inspired, and is profitable for...

Yes the law does that, but it is also called a ministry of death and done away with.

Any 11-year-old, 6th-grade school child can diagram 2 Corinthians 3:7 to show plainly that that which is being "done away" is the glory that shone in the face of Moses. Only the mind that is desperate to excuse itself from the claims of God's eternal law can read into the verse the doing away of the ten commandments. Roughly 50 English translations that support the truth of 2 Corinthians 3:7 can be found here:

2 Corinthians 3:7 Parallel: But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

You see, Ron, I have yet to have a Sabbath objector explain to me how the literal law/commandment (of the ten, according to the context in Romans 7, one of which forbids murder, a literal 'ministration of death') could be literally holy, just, and good (v. 12); literally not sin (v. 7); literally not death (v. 13), and yet be literally the ministration of mortal death (2 Corinthians 3:7).​

You reaD TOO MUCH IN WHAT I WRITE.

There is nothing in what you write to read anything into. It is very, very simple—e.g., "Well good for you." Nothing too cerebral there.

wELL I KNOW WHAT IT MEANS- IT MEANS ACTUAL OBSERVABLE PROVEN EVIDENCE BY OBSERVATION, SENSORY CONCLUSIONS OR VERIFICATION.

Which is why I asked you for empirical evidence for your conclusion as to what you think 2 Cor. 3 means other than how it is written.

The study of Scripture does not lend itself well to the empirical approach to knowledge. There are very few hypotheses to test by experience. The Bible is to be taken as it reads, not as our sensory experience dictates. Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. I have searched the web to no avail for examples of empirical approaches to Bible study.

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Question: Were you a Christian 40 or 50 years ago? And if so, at that time, did you know of anyone teaching that the ten commandments were "the ministration of death, done away?"

Because I can assure you that I was, and I didn't. And if I were a betting man, I'd bet you my next paycheck that you won't find anyone else who was and did, either. For the simple reason that it is an evil deception.

Observe:

Question:
Some religious people I know tell me that the ten commandments are a part of the law and do not apply to us today. They say that, as Christians, we are free from the law. Is that right?

Answer from Evangelist Billy Graham:
No, it is not right, and I hope you'll not be misled by these false opinions. It is important to understand what the New Testament means when it says that Christians are free from the law. It certainly does not mean that they are free from the obligations of the moral law of God and are at liberty to sin. You see the word "law" is used by the New Testament writers in two senses: Sometimes it refers to the ceremonial law of the Old Testament which is concerned about ritual matters and regulations regarding food and drink and things of this kind. This ceremonial law was of a passing character and was done away when Christ came. From this law Christians are indeed free. But, the New Testament also speaks of a moral law which is of a permanent, unchanging character and is summarized in the ten commandments. This law sets forth God's demands on human life and man's duty to God and neighbor, and that it definitely applies to the Christian is made clear in Romans 10:8-10. Of course, it is quite true that the Christian is not saved by his efforts to keep the law but, as one who is saved by God's mercy through faith in Christ, He is under an obligation to obey God's law. As it has been said, in Christ we are free from sin but not free to sin. "If you love me," He said, "keep my commandments."

m

 

[BarneyFife]

Yes the law does that, but it is also called a ministry of death and done away with.

How can it point out sin if it is "done away?"