The sacrifice of Jesus....revisited

[quietthinker]

Some interesting questions arise with the sacrifice of Jesus ie, how is this to be understood?

1...Does God require a sacrifice as in the slaying of an innocent before he will forgive?
2...If God is love and love keeps no record of wrongs as attested in 1 Cor. 13 ...in the light of this, how do we understand sacrifice?
3...What is it about shed blood and what is the connection to forgiveness?

There are more questions associated with this but three will do for now....in fact I'll start a seperate thread for this....can we call it a discussion?

Anyone have courage to look at these things objectively?

 

[Bob Estey]

Some interesting questions arise with the sacrifice of Jesus ie, how is this to be understood?

1...Does God require a sacrifice as in the slaying of an innocent before he will forgive?
2...If God is love and love keeps no record of wrongs as attested in 1 Cor. 13 ...in the light of this, how do we understand sacrifice?
3...What is it about shed blood and what is the connection to forgiveness?

There are more questions associated with this but three will do for now....in fact I'll start a seperate thread for this....can we call it a discussion?

Anyone have courage to look at these things objectively?

To answer your first question, God required no sacrifice. It was just that Satan can torture us forever for a single sin. Jesus had to die to disable Satan's ability to do that.

 

[Bob Estey]

Some interesting questions arise with the sacrifice of Jesus ie, how is this to be understood?

1...Does God require a sacrifice as in the slaying of an innocent before he will forgive?
2...If God is love and love keeps no record of wrongs as attested in 1 Cor. 13 ...in the light of this, how do we understand sacrifice?
3...What is it about shed blood and what is the connection to forgiveness?

There are more questions associated with this but three will do for now....in fact I'll start a seperate thread for this....can we call it a discussion?

Anyone have courage to look at these things objectively?

To answer your second question, I'm not aware we need to make any sacrifices.

 

[Bob Estey]

Some interesting questions arise with the sacrifice of Jesus ie, how is this to be understood?

1...Does God require a sacrifice as in the slaying of an innocent before he will forgive?
2...If God is love and love keeps no record of wrongs as attested in 1 Cor. 13 ...in the light of this, how do we understand sacrifice?
3...What is it about shed blood and what is the connection to forgiveness?

There are more questions associated with this but three will do for now....in fact I'll start a seperate thread for this....can we call it a discussion?

Anyone have courage to look at these things objectively?

To answer your third question, I see nothing about shed blood, and I see no connection between shed blood and forgiveness.

 

[dev553344]

Some interesting questions arise with the sacrifice of Jesus ie, how is this to be understood?

1...Does God require a sacrifice as in the slaying of an innocent before he will forgive?
2...If God is love and love keeps no record of wrongs as attested in 1 Cor. 13 ...in the light of this, how do we understand sacrifice?
3...What is it about shed blood and what is the connection to forgiveness?

There are more questions associated with this but three will do for now....in fact I'll start a seperate thread for this....can we call it a discussion?

Anyone have courage to look at these things objectively?

This is interesting to me also. I understand a little but not much. Sin is death to us. Jesus had to take our place in death and hell and raise himself up from death and hell to raise us up with him. So we learn that death and hell are places our bodies and spirits go that God doesn't go without the sacrifice of Christ. God is life and not death, he is all righteous and not a sinner so he did not go to hell or die on his own without Jesus making that sacrifice. Does that make sense?

 

[dev553344]

Jesus tells John:

Revelation 1:18
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

 

[Nancy]

Some interesting questions arise with the sacrifice of Jesus ie, how is this to be understood?

1...Does God require a sacrifice as in the slaying of an innocent before he will forgive?
2...If God is love and love keeps no record of wrongs as attested in 1 Cor. 13 ...in the light of this, how do we understand sacrifice?
3...What is it about shed blood and what is the connection to forgiveness?

There are more questions associated with this but three will do for now....in fact I'll start a seperate thread for this....can we call it a discussion?

Anyone have courage to look at these things objectively?

#1. He already did that, and the Sacrifice said "It is finished".

#2. He no longer requires sacrifice. The only perfect sacrifice could be
and was Christ and, He was the last, amen!

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."
Hebrews 10:14

#3. There can be no life without it (blood) and that goes for human birth as well.

"For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul."
Leviticus 17:11

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Some interesting questions arise with the sacrifice of Jesus ie, how is this to be understood?

1...Does God require a sacrifice as in the slaying of an innocent before he will forgive?
2...If God is love and love keeps no record of wrongs as attested in 1 Cor. 13 ...in the light of this, how do we understand sacrifice?
3...What is it about shed blood and what is the connection to forgiveness?

There are more questions associated with this but three will do for now....in fact I'll start a seperate thread for this....can we call it a discussion?

Anyone have courage to look at these things objectively?

Hebrews 9:
16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. 18 Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you.” 21 Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry. 22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

 

[quietthinker]

So we learn that death and hell are places our bodies and spirits go that God doesn't go without the sacrifice of Christ.

where did you learn this devin?

 

[quietthinker]

#1. He already did that, and the Sacrifice said "It is finished".

#2. He no longer requires sacrifice. The only perfect sacrifice could be
and was Christ and, He was the last, amen!

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."
Hebrews 10:14

#3. There can be no life without it (blood) and that goes for human birth as well.

"For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul."
Leviticus 17:11

To your No.3 answer and your following quote Nancy; how does the blood do this?

 

[quietthinker]

Hebrews 9:
16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. 18 Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you.” 21 Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry. 22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

is God subject to ceremonial laws 1CL?....how does this work?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

is God subject to ceremonial laws 1CL?....how does this work?

He is not subject to them. We were subject to them. They were about God, so how could He be subject to Himself?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

They were about God, so how could He be subject to Himself?

I’m confused. since Jesus Christ through the Spirit of God, not by flesh and blood but by the power of God, is obedient even unto death…would His being in “subjection to God” or “submissive” unto God make (make maybe not the right word, better prove)God ultimately in subjection to Himself or in submission unto Himself? For example Hebrews 6:13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

 

[quietthinker]

He is not subject to them. We were subject to them. They were about God, so how could He be subject to Himself?

The Hebrews 9 nine text you quoted is then exempt for anything God is subject to....so in the 'sacrifice' of Jesus, God does not then require blood before we are cleansed (forgiven/reinstated)?

 

[Enoch111]

1...Does God require a sacrifice as in the slaying of an innocent before he will forgive?

Absolutely. Read Isaiah 53.

2...If God is love and love keeps no record of wrongs as attested in 1 Cor. 13 ...in the light of this, how do we understand sacrifice?

God is Love and He is also Light. Light means that He examines every thought and deed and does keep a record in what are called "books". Therefore a huge sin debt has been accumulated by mankind. If the sacrifice of Christ had not been made, everyone would pay the penalty for their own sins. Which is in fact eternal damnation.

3...What is it about shed blood and what is the connection to forgiveness?

Since the wages of sin are death, the shed blood of the Lamb of God must atone for sins. Only then can there be forgiveness, and also the just demands of God's justice be met.

 

[quietthinker]

Absolutely. Read Isaiah 53.

God is Love and He is also Light. Light means that He examines every thought and deed and does keep a record in what are called "books". Therefore a huge sin debt has been accumulated by mankind. If the sacrifice of Christ had not been made, everyone would pay the penalty for their own sins. Which is in fact eternal damnation.
Since the wages of sin are death, the shed blood of the Lamb of God must atone for sins. Only then can there be forgiveness, and also the just demands of God's justice be met.

Grace manifests in forgiveness. Forgiveness trumps payment every time! Herein is God's character revealed.

 

[dev553344]

where did you learn this devin?

I thought on the subject and it makes common sense. But I could be wrong obviously.

 

[kcnalp]

To answer your third question, I see nothing about shed blood, and I see no connection between shed blood and forgiveness.

The Blood of Jesus doesn't wash away our sins?

 

[Bob Estey]

The Blood of Jesus doesn't wash away our sins?

When Jesus died, he rescued us from Satan, who could otherwise have tortured us forever because of our sins. Jesus became our master, forgave us for our sins, and is teaching us to love God with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and love our neighbors as ourselves. It is true that "the blood of Jesus washed away our sins," but I think there is more to the story than just that.

 

[Nancy]

To your No.3 answer and your following quote Nancy; how does the blood do this?

I'd say, through faith. He poured His out to take our sins away, a one time only occurrence, and the LAST sacrifice. He ain't going to do it again. And, can you imagine how very bloody these over and over sacrifices of bulls and goats was? Man, they sprinkled it over everything!, including the people...ick.

I don't see HOW this is done, but through faith