The Secret Name Of Jesus?

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brakelite

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When man sinned in the garden, the communication lines that existed directly between God and man were broken. From that time on, God used His Son to be the "word of God" to mankind, His intermediary, Mediator, or Spokesman. The scriptures are also the "word of God" as they were written by ionspiration of the Spirit of Christ. Either way, while the "word of God" is primarily Christ as God's spokesman, His written word , again through Christ, stands upon the same authority.
The secret name of Revelation seems to me to be something somewhat different. I haven't watched the video. These are my current thoughts, and make sense to me. I will watch the video now. If I come back here, I will let you know if the video changed my mind.
 
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brakelite

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Okay, half way through, and I get where he is coming from...thus far. I am reminded of the truth that the scripture declares that Christ is in us. That Christ, by His Spirit, changes us from glory to glory. That by His grace and power working in us, we are sanctified. But listen guys. What really is it that is doing the changing? What is it that creates...recreates...establishes...holds together...is it not the "word of God"...Christ Himself? Therefore is it not the words of scripture that sanctifies...the words of truth...that "brings many sons to glory"?
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 ¶ For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

So thus far, 8 or so minutes in, no real issues apart from perhaps his reluctance in giving Christ glory for the inspired Bible we have today as the "word of God", as having come from the same source.
 

mjrhealth

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Yes, I'm a Jehovah's Witness. Most people on here know that I am.
Well all I can say, I didnt, but the JW's are one of the few religions that I can have a half decent conversation with, because there church does mostly teach them the truth even if it is only head knowledge. always goes well till the point where it goes, " but than you must believe that Jesus has a church", than they loose me. But still love them, miss the visits.
 
B

brakelite

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13 minutes in. I can agree to some extent that the Bible...as a book...does not equate with the actual "word of God". BUT, and it is a very big BUT, I do differ somewhat from the general consensus regarding inspiration, so I would likely find myself more in harmony with this guys teachings than many here. The prophets, including Moses, David etc were inspired by the "word", Jesus. Or at least His Spirit, which is one and the same thing. Or Person. But each one of those prophets, without exception, wrote what we read in the Bible in their own words what God was inspiring them to say. The thoughts...the principles...the concepts they were revealing to us were not dictated to them by God...but finite mortal men brought God's thoughts to us in their own words. So yes, comparing the words of the Bible with the actual words of Jesus is an exercise in futility if one is trying to make them equal in every respect, however, the thoughts and intents which they convey are the same.
Which raises another question, which thus far the video doesn't tackle though it yet may, are the words of Jesus, as brought to us by the apostle John for example, a direct quotation from Jesus own lips? Or is John himself paraphrasing what he remembers some 60 years or so later of what Jesus said and taught????
 

Windmillcharge

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This can be a very big elaborate post that I can write up to share the heresy that has gone in the name of Jesus through churches today and past alike. Frankly, I am feeling a bit lazy (please forgive me) so I will just give a link that explains THE biggest heresy today and we can go one point at a time.
bit.ly/MostHatedCommand
Please keep discussion hereafter focused on the point being presented, or else I can see this getting way off topic than it needs to be. Thanks in advance.

Peace be to all who read these words.

I don't watch utube.
Heresies anctient and modern see written link
Historic Heresies Related to the Nature of Jesus | Cold Case Christianity
 
B

brakelite

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Yep, tend to agree with this dude that preachers, even entire church mindsets, AND non-denominational think tanks as well, (yes, non denoms are not immune) do NOT take the rods of Jesus at face value but remove them from their context...or add strange context...or ignore them altogether in favour of other Biblical contributors who appear at first sight, to better agree with their contrived personal opinions, based more often than not on tradition, creeds, and even downright lies.
So, in general terms, and on face value without diving too deeply into his every word, the guy is far from being the "blowhard" (and other terms) as considered by others.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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I personally feel like there was a lot of non-needed commentary to get to the point of the video. Please, in future try to keep it on the point. Thanks.

Indeed, Jesus is given the name "Word of God" and it is widely known as a name. But how many people knew it was another name for Jesus? Don't we hear all the time in church (or should I say Kingdom hall?) that the Bible is the Word of God? This confusion causes many 'suss' doctrines to be made by making other bible writers equal to or greater than the TRUE Word of God (i.e., Jesus).

Using the Bible to interpret Jesus' words is wrong. We should interpret the rest of the Bible with the words of Jesus. This is the only correct way to interpret scripture. Unless we build our house on the cornerstone, then our house won't be aligned properly. We must start and end with Jesus. The author and finisher of our faith.

The doctrine that the Bible is the Word of God has, sadly, produce fruit that cancels out what Jesus says to promote what someone else says.

That is the importance in knowing the difference between Jesus and the bible being the Word of God.

Peace be to everyone who reads these words


the Jehovahs witnesses have been saying for at least a hundred years now that Jesus is the word of God. it's not their fault that people don't listen to them
 

Jun2u

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But each one of those prophets, without exception, wrote what we read in the Bible in their own words what God was inspiring them to say. The thoughts...the principles...the concepts they were revealing to us were not dictated to them by God...but finite mortal men brought God's thoughts to us in their own words.

Without exception, really???

You must be reading another book than that of the Bible. Every letter, every word, every thought, every principle, and every concept were dictated by God. Did you truly think God would allow mere men to write His Book in their capacity whose work at best is tainted by sin? I don’t think so!

What do you suppose would happen when a boss dictates to his secretary to write a memo for the office, and the secretary writes in his own style and not as the boss have dictated it, what do you suppose would happen? That’s right, he gets fired!

Likewise, with God. He will NOT allow men to write and change His words. After all, God’s words are either life eternal or eternal damnation.

Although this guy’s video is plausible, it will not wash with Scripture.

According to the Priestly Prayer of Jesus, the whole chapter of John 17 declares Jesus to be the spokesman for the Father.

To God Be The Glory
 
B

brakelite

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Without exception, really???

You must be reading another book than that of the Bible. Every letter, every word, every thought, every principle, and every concept were dictated by God. Did you truly think God would allow mere men to write His Book in their capacity whose work at best is tainted by sin? I don’t think so!

What do you suppose would happen when a boss dictates to his secretary to write a memo for the office, and the secretary writes in his own style and not as the boss have dictated it, what do you suppose would happen? That’s right, he gets fired!

Likewise, with God. He will NOT allow men to write and change His words. After all, God’s words are either life eternal or eternal damnation.

Although this guy’s video is plausible, it will not wash with Scripture.

According to the Priestly Prayer of Jesus, the whole chapter of John 17 declares Jesus to be the spokesman for the Father.

To God Be The Glory
Then you need to explain why one gospel writer describes one demoniac in the cemetery by the shore, and another gospel writer describes two. That they were describing the very same event is obvious by the context of the swine. So God dictated to both?
 

Jun2u

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Then you need to explain why one gospel writer describes one demoniac in the cemetery by the shore, and another gospel writer describes two. That they were describing the very same event is obvious by the context of the swine. So God dictated to both?

Chapter and verse, please.
 

Jay Ross

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Chapter and verse, please.

In fairness here are the scriptures to read with the chronological context that @brakelite points too to show that there are differences in the recorded gospels: -

Matt 8:23-34 Wind and Wave Obey Jesus
(Mark 4:35-41; Luke 8:22-25)


23 Now when He got into a boat, His disciples followed Him. 24 And suddenly a great tempest arose on the sea, so that the boat was covered with the waves. But He was asleep. 25 Then His disciples came to Him and awoke Him, saying, "Lord, save us! We are perishing!"

26 But He said to them, "Why are you fearful, O you of little faith?" Then He arose and rebuked the winds and the sea, and there was a great calm. 27 So the men marveled, saying, "Who can this be, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?"

Two Demon-Possessed Men Healed
(Mark 5:1-20; Luke 8:26-39)


28 When He had come to the other side, to the country of the Gergesenes, there met Him two demon-possessed men, coming out of the tombs, exceedingly fierce, so that no one could pass that way. 29 And suddenly they cried out, saying, "What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?"

30 Now a good way off from them there was a herd of many swine feeding. 31 So the demons begged Him, saying, "If You cast us out, permit us to go away into the herd of swine."

32 And He said to them, "Go." So when they had come out, they went into the herd of swine. And suddenly the whole herd of swine ran violently down the steep place into the sea, and perished in the water.

33 Then those who kept them fled; and they went away into the city and told everything, including what had happened to the demon-possessed men. 34 And behold, the whole city came out to meet Jesus. And when they saw Him, they begged Him to depart from their region.

Jesus forgives and heals a Paralytic
. . . . . . .

Matthew the Tax collector
. . . . . . . . . .

Jesus questioned about Fasting
. . . . . . . . .
A Girl restored to Life and a Woman healed


______________________________________________________________________


Mark 4:35-5:20 Wind and Wave Obey Jesus
(Matt 8:23-27; Luke 8:22-25)


35 On the same day, when evening had come, He said to them, "Let us cross over to the other side." 36 Now when they had left the multitude, they took Him along in the boat as He was. And other little boats were also with Him. 37 And a great windstorm arose, and the waves beat into the boat, so that it was already filling. 38 But He was in the stern, asleep on a pillow. And they awoke Him and said to Him, "Teacher, do You not care that we are perishing?"

39 Then He arose and rebuked the wind, and said to the sea, "Peace, be still!" And the wind ceased and there was a great calm. 40 But He said to them, "Why are you so fearful? How is it that you have no faith?" 41 And they feared exceedingly, and said to one another, "Who can this be, that even the wind and the sea obey Him!"

A Demon-Possessed Man Healed
(Matt 8:28-9:1; Luke 8:26-29)


5 Then they came to the other side of the sea, to the country of the Gadarenes. 2 And when He had come out of the boat, immediately there met Him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, 3 who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no one could bind him, not even with chains, 4 because he had often been bound with shackles and chains. And the chains had been pulled apart by him, and the shackles broken in pieces; neither could anyone tame him. 5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains and in the tombs, crying out and cutting himself with stones.

6 When he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshiped Him. 7 And he cried out with a loud voice and said, "What have I to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God that You do not torment me."

8 For He said to him, "Come out of the man, unclean spirit!" 9 Then He asked him, "What is your name?"

And he answered, saying, "My name is Legion; for we are many." 10 Also he begged Him earnestly that He would not send them out of the country.

11 Now a large herd of swine was feeding there near the mountains. 12 So all the demons begged Him, saying, "Send us to the swine, that we may enter them." 13 And at once Jesus gave them permission. Then the unclean spirits went out and entered the swine (there were about two thousand); and the herd ran violently down the steep place into the sea, and drowned in the sea.

14 So those who fed the swine fled, and they told it in the city and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that had happened. 15 Then they came to Jesus, and saw the one who had been demon-possessed and had the legion, sitting and clothed and in his right mind. And they were afraid. 16 And those who saw it told them how it happened to him who had been demon-possessed, and about the swine. 17 Then they began to plead with Him to depart from their region.

18 And when He got into the boat, he who had been demon-possessed begged Him that he might be with Him. 19 However, Jesus did not permit him, but said to him, "Go home to your friends, and tell them what great things the Lord has done for you, and how He has had compassion on you." 20 And he departed and began to proclaim in Decapolis all that Jesus had done for him; and all marveled.

A Girl restored to Life and a Woman healed
__________________________________________________________________________________


Luke 8:22-39 Wind and Wave Obey Jesus
(Matt 8:23-27; Mark 4:35-41)


22 Now it happened, on a certain day, that He got into a boat with His disciples. And He said to them, "Let us cross over to the other side of the lake." And they launched out. 23 But as they sailed He fell asleep. And a windstorm came down on the lake, and they were filling with water, and were in jeopardy. 24 And they came to Him and awoke Him, saying, "Master, Master, we are perishing!"

Then He arose and rebuked the wind and the raging of the water. And they ceased, and there was a calm. 25 But He said to them, "Where is your faith?"

And they were afraid, and marveled, saying to one another, "Who can this be? For He commands even the winds and water, and they obey Him!"

A Demon-Possessed Man Healed
(Matt 8:28-9:1; Mark 5:1-20)


26 Then they sailed to the country of the Gadarenes, which is opposite Galilee. 27 And when He stepped out on the land, there met Him a certain man from the city who had demons for a long time. And he wore no clothes, nor did he live in a house but in the tombs. 28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, fell down before Him, and with a loud voice said, "What have I to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You, do not torment me!" 29 For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For it had often seized him, and he was kept under guard, bound with chains and shackles; and he broke the bonds and was driven by the demon into the wilderness.

30 Jesus asked him, saying, "What is your name?"

And he said, "Legion," because many demons had entered him. 31 And they begged Him that He would not command them to go out into the abyss.

32 Now a herd of many swine was feeding there on the mountain. So they begged Him that He would permit them to enter them. And He permitted them. 33 Then the demons went out of the man and entered the swine, and the herd ran violently down the steep place into the lake and drowned.

34 When those who fed them saw what had happened, they fled and told it in the city and in the country. 35 Then they went out to see what had happened, and came to Jesus, and found the man from whom the demons had departed, sitting at the feet of Jesus, clothed and in his right mind. And they were afraid. 36 They also who had seen it told them by what means he who had been demon-possessed was healed. 37 Then the whole multitude of the surrounding region of the Gadarenes asked Him to depart from them, for they were seized with great fear. And He got into the boat and returned.

38 Now the man from whom the demons had departed begged Him that he might be with Him. But Jesus sent him away, saying, 39 "Return to your own house, and tell what great things God has done for you." And he went his way and proclaimed throughout the whole city what great things Jesus had done for him.

A Girl restored to Life and a Woman healed

To be fair there is a difference to the accounts of the story in the three gospels, provided above, of the demons entering the swine, but the two demon possessed man/men is in my opinion more of an issue of understanding the Greek source Text in Matthew. If we step back, the difference between Matthew and Mark and Luke is a minor issue as the rest of the context of the accounts seem to match up fairly well.

But this disagreement and animosity should not be over this issue of translation of the source text. That is a red herring and nit picking, something Christ warned about.

Shalom
 
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Jun2u

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If we step back, the difference between Matthew and Mark and Luke is a minor issue as the rest of the context of the accounts seem to match up fairly well.

Minor issue? Some folks write in color-coded words for emphasis. I do also but in bold. I believe it is a big issue especially seeing when anyone does NOT accompany Scripture references on the subject matter he wants to discuss or convey! Don’t get me wrong, I knew about the verses you quoted was exactly the same as @bratelight's however, I wanted @brakelight to confirm those verses.

We are in the market place and there are those non-members who peruse on these forums who might stumble unto this thread and not know what the subject matter is all about unless they see a Scripture or two. Should we shun them away or encourage them to join by liking the posts they read?

There are three numbers in the Hebrew language. Singular = one; Dual = two; and Plural = three or more, while in English there are only two. Singular = one; and Plural = two or more.

Note how God is emphasizing the word “seed” is singular in Genesis 13:15, then He drives home the point that the word: "seed" is “one”, and not as to "many" as is explained in Galatians 3:16. Still thinking “minor issue”?

Then consider this next example:

Matthew 27:5
“And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and hanged himself."

BUT…

In Acts 1:18, the verse is different in that Judas "falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out”, describing the same event.

Indeed, the word of God cannot be taken lightly. God is a God of Order and not of confusion.

Now, do you or @brakelight have the answers to the above verses which seems to have apparent discrepancies? Please don’t regard this as animosity, they’re merely questions for the learned.

To God Be The Glory
 

Jay Ross

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Minor issue? Some folks write in color-coded words for emphasis. I do also but in bold. I believe it is a big issue especially seeing when anyone does NOT accompany Scripture references on the subject matter he wants to discuss or convey! Don’t get me wrong, I knew about the verses you quoted was exactly the same as @bratelight's however, I wanted @brakelight to confirm those verses.

We are in the market place and there are those non-members who peruse on these forums who might stumble unto this thread and not know what the subject matter is all about unless they see a Scripture or two. Should we shun them away or encourage them to join by liking the posts they read?

There are three numbers in the Hebrew language. Singular = one; Dual = two; and Plural = three or more, while in English there are only two. Singular = one; and Plural = two or more.

Note how God is emphasizing the word “seed” is singular in Genesis 13:15, then He drives home the point that the word: "seed" is “one”, and not as to "many" as is explained in Galatians 3:16. Still thinking “minor issue”?

Then consider this next example:

Matthew 27:5
“And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and hanged himself."

BUT…

In Acts 1:18, the verse is different in that Judas "falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out”, describing the same event.

Indeed, the word of God cannot be taken lightly. God is a God of Order and not of confusion.

Now, do you or @brakelight have the answers to the above verses which seems to have apparent discrepancies? Please don’t regard this as animosity, they’re merely questions for the learned.

To God Be The Glory

Although I disagree with @bakelight 's theological understanding, I was not attempting to enter into a battle on this subject matter of differences between the Gospels as you are. What I was pointing out was that the introduced errors tend to come after the translations of the source documents of the Gospels have been interpreted and then translated into the English language.

How important is this particular error that you are highlighting?

It is a little like the young and old earth argument. For some their whole basis of faith rests on having a your earth because of the Hebrew word yowm and how it is understood and made it to have the same meaning as hayowm but hayowm is defined by the solar system's precision of motion whereas yowm has no reference system to indicate the basis of our understanding except that yowm is very different to hayowm and has a very different time span to hayowm which is not defined within the scriptures as such except in two obscure references.

The question that needs to be asked is, "Does the accuracy of the translated bibles impact our ability to believe in God at all through faith in Him?

Shalom
 

Jun2u

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[QUOTE="Jay Ross, post: 519503, member: 4077"]How important is this particular error that you are highlighting?[/QUOTE]

Very, very important. But after reading your post once again, it became apparent to me that I misunderstood your point for reasons what @brakelight conveyed in post #49.

I still stand behind what I’ve said and believe there are no differences nor contradictions in Scripture even after in the translation of the Bible. In most cases, it is our understanding that is flawed.

If you saw what I’ve seen with my spiritual eyes in the example I offered of Judas, you would also have seen the verses you and @braklight offered, that when the same event is described differently by two writers it is still said to be speaking of the same event, but now we are to take the two descriptions and combine them together to get a bigger picture.

In other words, the Judas account could be rendered this way: when Judas stepped on the rock to hang himself (Matthew 27:5), the rope broke and he fell headlong on top of the rock, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out (Acts 1:18). One event with two descriptions. By two different writers.

It is like those who witnessed the same auto accident but have different vantage points where they were at impact to tell their stories to describe the same event.

I hope I articulated my explanations well, if not please ask.

To God Be The Glory
 
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Jay Ross

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[QUOTE="Jay Ross, post: 519503, member: 4077"]How important is this particular error that you are highlighting?

Very, very important. But after reading your post once again, it became apparent to me that I misunderstood your point for reasons what @brakelight conveyed in post #49.

I still stand behind what I’ve said and believe there are no differences nor contradictions in Scripture even after in the translation of the Bible. In most cases, it is our understanding that is flawed.

If you saw what I’ve seen with my spiritual eyes in the example I offered of Judas, you would also have seen the verses you and @braklight offered, that when the same event is described differently by two writers it is still said to be speaking of the same event, but now we are to take the two descriptions and combine them together to get a bigger picture.

In other words, the Judas account could be rendered this way: when Judas stepped on the rock to hang himself (Matthew 27:5), the rope broke and he fell headlong on top of the rock, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out (Acts 1:18). One event with two descriptions. By two different writers.

It is like those who witnessed the same auto accident but have different vantage points where they were at impact to tell their stories to describe the same event.

I hope I articulated my explanations well, if not please ask.

To God Be The Glory[/QUOTE]

What you see as a difference may well be the difference in timing of the recorded observations or it might just be that either Matthew's account or Luke's account have errors in them. Luke's account in Acts 1:18 tells us that Judas brought the Potters field but in Matthew's account it is the chief priests that goes out and purchases the Potter's field . In Acts 1:18 we are told where Judas died. The Matthew account does not tell us where Judas hanged himself but the Luke account tells us that at some stage Judas's stomach burst open and his intestines spilt out, possibly some time after he had died from hanging himself in the field. Luke then goes on to explain that this field where Judas died became known as the Potter's field or the Flied of Blood. There is a conflict created by Luke as to who actually purchased the fleid.

There are question marks over the original Greek texts in Luke's account, whereas the concern in the Greek text of Matthew's account raises a question over which prophet was being referenced. The OT referenced prophet closest to having penned the prophetic account was Zechariah as found in Zechariah 11:12-13: -

Zechariah 11:12-13: - 12 Then I said to them, "If it seems right to you, give me my wages; but if not, keep them." And they weighed out as my wages thirty shekels of silver. 13 Then the Lord said to me, "Cast it into the treasury" - the lordly price at which I was paid off by them. So I took the thirty shekels of silver and cast them into the treasury in the house of the Lord.​

It is good to see that the recorders of the New Testament books made errors in their records. This means that we have to carefully consider what it is that we believe in through faith such that we are able to receive the promises from ancient times.

We have a need to test the spirit(s) that prompt us to look at certain aspects of the Bible as to whether we are being drawn away from or to the message that is recorded within the bible concerning how we can enter into a relationship with God. Do my "spiritual" eyes lead me astray? Yes I have been caught out by being draw into thinking differently to how God wants me to think.

It is an issue that we all need to address.

Shalom