The Singular Factor In Coming To God Through Christ.

[Ferris Bueller]

Again, the New Testament started at Pentecost. Without the Holy Ghost, nobody is in the New Testament church. The death of the testator already happened. But the Holy Ghost was yet to be poured out until Acts 2.

Pentecost is about more than just receiving the Spirit in salvation. It's about receiving the Holy Spirit in POWER. For the disciples had already received the Holy Spirit before Pentecost...

"Jesus said to them, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent Me, so also I am sending you.” When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit." John 20:21-22
​

The church can only understand receiving the Spirit in terms of salvation, not a separate empowering of the Spirit. I know it can be kind of confusing trying to nail down the movement and activities and the agenda of the Holy Spirit, but it's clear that the move of the Spirit at Pentecost is about more than just getting saved. The disciples already had the Holy Spirit when Jesus said this to them...

"He commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” Acts 1:4-5​

"...you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” Acts 1:8
​

They just didn't have it in power. The church has separated itself from this aspect of baptism and salvation. Which I think partly explains why the church is where it's at today.

 

[Curtis]

What changed that John is now greater than the least in the kingdom of God?

What changed is he’s now in heaven.

As a high caterpillar on earth he was nevertheless still lower than the lowest butterfly in heaven, but now that he’s also metamorphosed into a butterfly in heaven, he’s changed from his lower earthly status, to the higher heavenly one.

As a big fish in a small pond on earth, he was still smaller than the smallest fish in the big pond of heaven, but now that he too has graduated to the big pond in the sky, he's no longer smaller than the smallest fish there.

Moral to the story? Heaven is a higher plane of existence than earth. The lowest one there, is still higher than the highest one who is still here (in the lower state of existence).

Shalom

 

[Curtis]

Peter used the name Iesous.

He used it in every word and deed.

Jesus taught him to do that per Mark 16.

So you’ve be3n baptized into the name of Iesous, then?

Guess what? God knows every language on earth, and knows Yehoshua’s name in every language, and doesn’t demand you use His Hebrew name in America.

 

[Curtis]

Pentecost is about more than just receiving the Spirit in salvation. It's about receiving the Holy Spirit in POWER. For the disciples had already received the Holy Spirit before Pentecost...

"Jesus said to them, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent Me, so also I am sending you.” When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit." John 20:21-22
​

The church can only understand receiving the Spirit in terms of salvation, not a separate empowering of the Spirit. I know it can be kind of confusing trying to nail down the movement and activities and the agenda of the Holy Spirit, but it's clear that the move of the Spirit at Pentecost is about more than just getting saved. The disciples already had the Holy Spirit when Jesus said this to them...

"He commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” Acts 1:4-5​

"...you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” Acts 1:8
​

They just didn't have it in power. The church has separated itself from this aspect of baptism and salvation. Which I think partly explains why the church is where it's at today.

Exactly. They already believed and were saved - they had the Holy Spirit already, but were not filled or baptized with the Holy Spirit yet.

Even after Pentecost those newly saved had the Holy Spirit, but a Spirit filled believer had to lay hands on them to be also be filled with the Holy Spirit - (the gentiles received their own Pentecost in Acts 10, just as the Jewish believers had earlier at Pentecost)- but thereafter in the New Testament you find that new believers had hands laid in them to receive the fulness of the Holy Spirit, aka be baptized with the HS - and it still works that way, today.

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Next verse:

And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


Shalom

 

[Curtis]

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Is this with or without the Holy Ghost infilling?

Yes, believers receive a measure of the Holy Spirit in the new covenant, but are still not FILLED with the Holy Spirit at that time, there is a further infilling of the Holy Spirit, which happened on Pentecost, but thereafter newly saved believers had to have hands laid on them by a Spirit filled believer, to also be filled with the Holy Spirit:

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.


Next example:

Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

And, BTW, it still works that way today - a Christian is not FILLED with the HS until a Spirit filled believer lays hands on them.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What changed is he’s now in heaven.

As a high caterpillar on earth he was nevertheless still lower than the lowest butterfly in heaven, but now that he’s also metamorphosed into a butterfly in heaven, he’s changed from his lower earthly status, to the higher heavenly one.

As a big fish in a small pond on earth, he was still smaller than the smallest fish in the big pond of heaven, but now that he too has graduated to the big pond in the sky, he's no longer smaller than the smallest fish there.

Moral to the story? Heaven is a higher plane of existence than earth. The lowest one there, is still higher than the highest one who is still here (in the lower state of existence).

Shalom

I'm not aware of anywhere in scripture where Jesus qualifies it this way—heavenly vs. earthly.

 

[Curtis]

I'm not aware of anywhere in scripture where Jesus qualifies it this way—heavenly vs. earthly.

So you equate our mortal and temporal existence on earth, “where we know in part, and see in part, ond can only see through a glass darkly” with life in paradise where they have perfect knowledge?

Interesting.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Exactly. They already believed and were saved - they had the Holy Spirit already, but were not filled or baptized with the Holy Spirit yet.

Even after Pentecost those newly saved had the Holy Spirit, but a Spirit filled believer had to lay hands on them to be also be filled with the Holy Spirit - (the gentiles received their own Pentecost in Acts 10, just as the Jewish believers had earlier at Pentecost)- but thereafter in the New Testament you find that new believers had hands laid in them to receive the fulness of the Holy Spirit, aka be baptized with the HS - and it still works that way, today.

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Next verse:

And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


Shalom

I agree. I'm thankful to God that I got a good education in these truths right from the start. Because the church at large has rejected the overflow of the Spirit in power and only accept the seal of the Spirit in salvation. That truth got suppressed by the church. Thankfully, a few denominations have preserved and practiced these truths about the baptism in power. Sadly, the movement is largely corrupted these days by greedy, unsaved so-called pastors and their fake gifts.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So you equate our mortal and temporal existence on earth, “where we know in part, and see in part, ond can only see through a glass darkly” with life in paradise where they have perfect knowledge?

Interesting.

What I reject is saying 'the first will be last, and the last will be first' is referring to earthly achievement vs. heavenly achievement. I don't see how the least of believers dying and going to be with Jesus somehow makes him greater than John the Baptist while he was on earth. Very, very few people in this life have achieved what John the Baptist did. Dying and going to be with Jesus doesn't change that for those of us who have not achieved what John the Baptist achieved. You say it does?

 

[user]

So you’ve be3n baptized into the name of Iesous, then?

Guess what? God knows every language on earth, and knows Yehoshua’s name in every language, and doesn’t demand you use His Hebrew name in America.

One would suppose using the native translated name would be honored. Equally however, God knows when a NAME is not used at all.

Is the NAME of your son = "Son"?

Just thinking out loud.
God Bless!

 

[user]

Which of these is a "name"...

Acts 3:16 And his name(Son) through faith in his name(Son) hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

Acts 3:16 And his name(Jesus) through faith in his name(Jesus) hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

 

[Curtis]

One would suppose using the native translated name would be honored. Equally however, God knows when a NAME is not used at all.

Is the NAME of your son = "Son"?

Just thinking out loud.
God Bless!

Most preachers say, “in the name of Jesus I baptize you into the name of the father, son, and HS according to Jesus’ words in Matthew 28:19”.

But water baptism saves no one, it’s part of a public confession of our faith in Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection, per Romans 10:8-13 - that we must confess with our mouth the faith in our heart, to be saved.

Maranatha

 

[user]

Most preachers say, “in the name of Jesus I baptize you into the name of the father, son, and HS according to Jesus’ words in Matthew 28:19”.

But water baptism saves no one, it’s part of a public confession of our faith in Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection, per Romans 10:8-13 - that we must confess with our mouth the faith in our heart, to be saved.

Maranatha

Why do all those gymnastics? Simply show me a single verse whereby anyone was baptized (where an actual baptism is taking place) using the words "Father, Son, Holy Ghost" --Note: Matthew 28:19 is not an actual baptism taking place.

Also, show me where I said anything about any "water baptism saves" - you are being a bit presumptuous.
Would you like to talk about it?

 

[Curtis]

What I reject is saying 'the first will be last, and the last will be first' is referring to earthly achievement vs. heavenly achievement. I don't see how the least of believers dying and going to be with Jesus somehow makes him greater than John the Baptist while he was on earth. Very, very few people in this life have achieved what John the Baptist did. Dying and going to be with Jesus doesn't change that for those of us who have not achieved what John the Baptist achieved. You say it does?

David Guzik:

A prophet . . . and more than a prophet: Jesus reminds the people that John is God’s chosen herald of the Messiah, not a man-pleaser or a self-pleaser. He was in fact more than a prophet, because he alone had the ministry of serving as the Messiah’s herald. For that, he is the greatest of prophets and the greatest of men (among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist).

b. He who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he: Though John was great, he was not born again under the New Covenant. This is because he lived and died before the completion of Jesus’ work at the cross and empty tomb. Therefore, he did not enjoy the benefits of the New Covenant (1Co 11:25, 2Co 3:6, Heb 8:6-13).

John Wesley:

But he that is least in the kingdom of heaven, is greater than he - Which an ancient author explains thus: - "One perfect in the law, as John was, is inferior to one who is baptized into the death of Christ. For this is the kingdom of heaven, even to be buried with Christ, and to be raised up together with him. John was greater than all who had been then born of women, but he was cut off before the kingdom of heaven was given."

He was blameless as to that righteousness which is by the law; but he fell short of those who are perfected by the spirit of life which is in Christ. Whosoever, therefore, is least in the kingdom of heaven, by Christian regeneration, is greater than any who has attained only the righteousness of the law, because the law maketh nothing perfect." It may farther mean, the least true Christian believer has a more perfect knowledge of Jesus Christ, of his redemption and kingdom, than John the Baptist had, who died before the full manifestation of the Gospel.

 

[Curtis]

Why do all those gymnastics? Simply show me a single verse whereby anyone was baptized (where an actual baptism is taking place) using the words "Father, Son, Holy Ghost" --Note: Matthew 28:19 is not an actual baptism taking place.

So Jesus was just blithering and spouting words He had no intention of His apostles carrying out?

That’s what you are saying: “Jesus said it, but it means nothing, because He REALLY meant to baptize only in His name”.

Who’s really the one being presumptuous?

 

[user]

So Jesus was just blithering and spouting words He had no intention of His apostles carrying out?

That’s what you are saying: “Jesus said it, but it means nothing, because He REALLY meant to baptize only in His name”.

Who’s really the one being presumptuous?

You see now, by your implication of saying "really meant", you suggest there was something other than his original meaning.

I asked you to provide a single scripture of an actual baptism taking place using the words, Father, Son, Holy Ghost (which BTW Matthew 28:19 is not a baptism taking place).

In your failure to produce any scripture, you should have realized how baptisms were carried out in the book of Acts.

 

[Curtis]

You see now, by your implication of saying "really meant", you suggest there was something other than his original meaning.

I asked you to provide a single scripture of an actual baptism taking place using the words, Father, Son, Holy Ghost (which BTW Matthew 28:19 is not a baptism taking place).

In your failure to produce any scripture, you should have realized how baptisms were carried out in the book of Acts.

So you continue to claim Jesus was just blithering words He didn’t mean.

Got it.

 

[user]

So you continue to claim Jesus was just blithering words He didn’t mean.

Got it.

Your light bulb hasn't gone on yet?
OK let's try it a bit slower for you...

Simply show me a single verse whereby anyone was baptized (where an actual baptism is taking place) using the words "Father, Son, Holy Ghost" --Note: Matthew 28:19 is not an actual baptism taking place.

I await your scripture .....{Playing Jeopardy theme music}

 

[Truther]

Pentecost is about more than just receiving the Spirit in salvation. It's about receiving the Holy Spirit in POWER. For the disciples had already received the Holy Spirit before Pentecost...

"Jesus said to them, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent Me, so also I am sending you.” When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit." John 20:21-22
​

The church can only understand receiving the Spirit in terms of salvation, not a separate empowering of the Spirit. I know it can be kind of confusing trying to nail down the movement and activities and the agenda of the Holy Spirit, but it's clear that the move of the Spirit at Pentecost is about more than just getting saved. The disciples already had the Holy Spirit when Jesus said this to them...

"He commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” Acts 1:4-5​

"...you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” Acts 1:8
​

They just didn't have it in power. The church has separated itself from this aspect of baptism and salvation. Which I think partly explains why the church is where it's at today.

Lol

They had the Holy Ghost but not the power of the Holy Ghost?

Was Acts 2 a booster shot?

C'mon Ferris!

 

[Truther]

So you’ve be3n baptized into the name of Iesous, then?

Guess what? God knows every language on earth, and knows Yehoshua’s name in every language, and doesn’t demand you use His Hebrew name in America.

YEHOSHUA is not even 42nd cousin relative to Iesous.

You might as well say Rumpelstiltskin in your baptism.

It is just as off as your Chinese YEHOSHUA word you made up.