The Sinner Must Decide? - Excerpt from J. Preston Eby

[St. SteVen]

When the Gospel is preached -- which is "the power of God unto salvation" -- then the Holy Spirit convicts, convinces, and draws the sinner to the Savior. But that person must still make the decision to obey the Gospel (repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ). God does not predestine anyone to salvation or damnation.

Are you assuming that EVERYONE has heard the gospel?

 

[St. SteVen]

THE TRUE GOSPEL: "THAT THE WORLD THROUGH HIM MIGHT BE SAVED"

Might be?
Sounds pretty tenuous.

Was God incapable of putting together a solid plan for humankind?
Sounds like a "sort of" salvation. A big MAYBE. (with a shrug)
A disturbing level of ambiguity if it has to do with our "eternal" destiny.

Maybe something more like this? (actual good news)

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

 

[GISMYS_7]

Fair enough.
Are you calling an English translation of the Bible (none of which agree) "God's Word"?

I think you haven't answered my first question. Here it is again.
Where does the Bible say that "you are free to choose to reject God's love and go to hell"?

LOL!!! Read and think and understand!!

 

[Lambano]

As I mentioned, the Bible teaches both God's sovereignty and Human responsibility, and the two are in tension. How that plays out in real life keeps the internet buzzing. @St. SteVen , I think it's clear you fall on the side of God's sovereignty, and I'm cool with that (even though I fall on the other side of the scale). How do you see Human responsibility?

 

[St. SteVen]

LOL!!! Read and think and understand!!

Your personal understanding is not the only one.
There are many ways/options for reading and understanding.
Why would you criticize the way someone else reads and understands?
Jesus knew this.

Luke 10:26 NIV
“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

 

[St. SteVen]

As I mentioned, the Bible teaches both God's sovereignty and Human responsibility, and the two are in tension. How that plays out in real life keeps the internet buzzing. @St. SteVen , I think it's clear you fall on the side of God's sovereignty, and I'm cool with that (even though I fall on the other side of the scale). How do you see Human responsibility?

Fantastic post! Thank you.
Great insights and question.

There are probably a range of possibilities here, at least from our limited human perspective.
The extremes being: God's complete sovereignty and our complete lack of responsibility, or
our complete responsibility and God's complete lack of sovereignty.
Neither of which seems right, of course. Calvinism to Deism.

One could choose a spot in the center and say it's 50/50. But that diminishes grace.
Where's the gift if we partnered 50/50 for it? And giving us anything more than 50% makes it worse.
At 50% or more, it just isn't grace.

Sorry, I'm just thinking out loud here... (trying to work it out - exploring...)

Seems God needs to have the larger part in this. But how large?

I would venture to say that it has mostly to do with who we are in comparison.
God, of course, is God. He was before us, he created us. The title Father fits well.

And what are we? A smiling child with a runny nose, in need of a diaper change. - LOL

The parent/child relationship seems to fit well.

And this has been my personal experience. Like a maturing child, responsibility grows with time.
At some point the training wheels come off the bike and we head down the road seemingly on our own.
We fall and scrape a knee and Father is there to pick us up and comfort us. Off we go again.

This growing level of personal responsibility becomes a trust issue. We ask for the car keys.
Now we are in the driver's seat. But there are laws to abide by, and expectations from our parent.
We test the limits and learn from our mistakes.

And like the differences in siblings, each of us is also different. Which requires adjustments in parenting.
We expect more/different from a first born son than we do of his young sister.

At this point the analogy comes apart. The human father and the human child are still human.
The human child does not mature to the point of being God. Even at full maturity we are eons apart.

And without the indwelling of the Father, we can do no good. Wood, hay and stubble... poof!
At the end of the day, all that is left is what he gave us. In and of ourselves, we amount to nothing.
But wait... what does the Father see? Something of utmost value. Something worth saving.
This is a great mystery.

How much responsibility do we grant a created being that is incapable of doing any good on their own?
Ultimately, none. Let God be sovereign. We are lost without him.

On the other hand, there will be a Day/Age of accountability. Correction for what we have done on our own...
and rewards for what he has done through us. Can we even call that personal responsibility?
Good question. - LOL

 

[St. SteVen]

This last bit from my post above seems a good summary statement.

How much responsibility do we grant a created being that is incapable of doing any good on their own?
Ultimately, none. Let God be sovereign. We are lost without him.

On the other hand, there will be a Day/Age of accountability. Correction for what we have done on our own...
and rewards for what he has done through us. Can we even call that personal responsibility?
Good question. - LOL

We are responsible for our actions, but completely incapable of saving ourselves,
Salvation, if left to our decision seems preposterous to me. We struggle to get our shoes on the right feet. - LOL
And it is an ignorant claim to say that everyone has had the same opportunity to respond.
Countless billions have gone to the afterlife without a clue of what we claim.

 

[brightfame52]

That is not even the issue. It is a RED HERRING. To believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is a decision. And that is how God has ordained the preaching of the Gospel.

Sure its a decision, but it was Gods decision and purpose as to who would believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, them He ordained, or had chosen to eternal life Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

 

[St. SteVen]

Sure its a decision, but it was Gods decision and purpose as to who would believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, them He ordained, or had chosen to eternal life Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

That would mean that God predestined the majority to destruction. Do you believe that?


@Enoch111

 

[brightfame52]

That would mean that God predestined the majority to destruction. Do you believe that?


@Enoch111

Actually I do. After all its written Matt 7

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[St. SteVen]

Actually I do. After all its written Matt 7

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

If that is written about the afterlife, it means that God is playing a high-stakes game with our souls.
(few there be that find it) A difficult puzzle with eternal consequences if you fail to complete it.

Would God make sport of our human condition?
"Oh, too bad. You almost found it. Better luck next time, Oh wait...
there won't be a next time. Ha, ha, ha..." (sinister laugh)

 

[St. SteVen]

@brightfame52

If that is written about the afterlife, it means that God is playing a high-stakes game with our souls.
(few there be that find it) A difficult puzzle with eternal consequences if you fail to complete it.

What happens if we view this as having to do with life here on planet earth? The here and now.
Your scripture is pasted at the bottom of this post.

Is it true that some make bad choices in the here and now? (of course)
Are there consequences in the here and now for those bad choices? (of course)
Does the broad gate of bad decisions lead to life-effecting consequences (destruction) in the here and now? (of course)
Does the strait (narrow) gate of good decisions lead to life-effecting consequences in the here and now? (of course)
Would this view leave room for the redemption of ALL humankind? (absolutely)

Matt 7
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[brightfame52]

If that is written about the afterlife, it means that God is playing a high-stakes game with our souls.
(few there be that find it) A difficult puzzle with eternal consequences if you fail to complete it.

Would God make sport of our human condition?
"Oh, too bad. You almost found it. Better luck next time, Oh wait...
there won't be a next time. Ha, ha, ha..." (sinister laugh)

According to that passage, God has ordained more people to destruction than to Heavens Glory.

 

[BlessedPeace]

The Sinner Must Decide​

Excerpt from J. Preston Eby

Strange as it may seem there are many
today who insist that they believe in salvation by grace,
yet they insist that man has the power to "make a
decision for Christ." They argue that "God
loves everyone, equally and alike," yet they are
sure that He is going to send some people to hell forever.

They affirm that the Bible teaches that the Creator
of all things is surely omnipotent, but they are
also quite confident that finite man is fully capable of
obstructing the will of God. In nearly every case the
problem lies in the fact that these dear people do not
know Bible truth. They have heard nothing from their
pulpits but "plan of salvation" sermons minus
the wonderful truths which make up the plan! If they were
asked to explain the meaning of such doctrines as
redemption, propitiation, reconciliation, remission, and
atonement, they would either mutter trivia or be
absolutely speechless. Why? Because they have never been
taught, nor have they had the spiritual vigor necessary
to discover for themselves, what Scripture actually
teaches about the work of Christ. There is one thing they
hold in common: the confidence that man can use his own
"positive volition" or "free will" to accept Christ and get himself "saved."

"The Bible plainly teaches that fallen man is blinded to the truth;
the soulish man receives not the things of the Spirit of God, for they
are foolishness unto him, neither can he know them
because they are spiritually discerned, and the soulish
man has not the Spirit. Thus the sinner does not realize
and appreciate the value of the salvation that is offered
to him. In the first place, he does not know that he is lost,
and hence feels no need of salvation. Secondly,
this sinner does not know that the salvation offered him
in Christ is worth anything. All he has to go by in
determining its worth is the lives of those who profess
to possess it, and they for the most part, are very
deficient illustrations of its merit. Furthermore the
sinner is surrounded by circumstances entirely adverse to
his acceptance of Christ. And finally, worse than all,
'the mind of the flesh,' a corrupt nature, an 'evil heart
of unbelief,' a 'body of death,' that leans toward the
bad and opposes the good continually; and mark you, all
these things are circumstances over which the individual
has no control and for which he is not to blame.

"Again, mark you, that if he overcomes these
unfavorable circumstances and in spite of
them does accept Christ, it must be by some power
OUTSIDE OF HIMSELF, for in himself he would never have
any power for his own deliverance. This is the teaching of the
seventh chapter of Romans. God must deliver him if he is
delivered at all! He must bring him to a knowledge of his
lost condition, so that he will feel his need of a Saviour,
and He must give him repentance and faith. God
must open his eyes so that he shall not only see the
need, but also the priceless value of salvation, that
like the apostle Paul, he will be willing to count all
thing but dross for the excellency of the
knowledge of Christ Jesus his Lord.

Someone will ask,
"Will God save men eventually against their will?"
The answer is no! He will have to need to do that,
for all men will be one hundred percent
willing when God reveals Himself to them. Then the eyes
of the blind shall be opened, the ears of the deaf shall
be unstopped, and the doors of the prison house shall be opened.

We have only to consider the case of Saul of Tarsus to
understand the miraculous power of the Lord to
change the leopard's spots and melt the heart of stone.

There are those who suppose that God could not convert a
soul unless that depraved and lost soul gives to almighty
God that permission. I only wish they would ask the
apostle Paul, that great despiser of Christ and hater of
His Church, that persecutor of Christians, who while on
his way to Damascus was suddenly cast to the ground and
converted. No man was ever more hateful toward Christ
than was Saul of Tarsus, yet, when his turn came to see
the light, he changed in an instant, crying out in fear
and trembling and with bitter repentance,
"Who art You, Lord?" and "What will You have me to do?"

Did God ask Saul of Tarsus whether or not he
wanted to be saved? Or did He say to Ananias,
"He is a chosen vessel unto Me to bear My name before
the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel" (Acts 9:15)?
It is only God who can change the human heart,
and when God wills to change every single human heart
in earth and in hell, each will be changed in an instant.

Some suppose that God is desperately trying to
convert every human being in the world ...
ah, but He cannot do it, because mighty man,
sovereign man, will not allow it! Jehovah
does all of His pleasure. As I have purposed
so shall it come to pass," says the Lord.

Where do these man-made preachers
get the notion that man is a FREE MORAL AGENT?
Indeed, he may be free in some
minor things that concern his personal conduct, but
concerning God's eternal purpose for him HE IS NOT FREE
to do his own will, for "it is NOT OF HIM THAT WILLS
or HIM THAT RUNS, BUT GOD THAT SHOWS MERCY" (Rom. 9:16).

God in His great mercy has condescended to extend
mercy to all men, He sent His Son to die for all men, to
redeem all men, to reconcile all back to God, and in due
time He sent also His Holy Spirit to invincibly draw them
unto Himself. In the day of the power of God, men are
made willing and, having been quickened by that Spirit,
renewed in mind, having been given a heart of flesh, they
do come most willingly, having been made willing
BY HIS POWER. What an exalted view is this of our
OMNIPOTENT GOD AND SAVIOR!

Source: Man Is A Free Moral Agent: Just What Do You Mean Man is A Free Moral Agent; The Sinner Must Decide; The Shepherd Seeks The Sheep; The Will Of Man; I Will Draw All Men Unto Me; By One Man

Another challenge to the idea that those of humankind are free moral agents in reference to their salvation.
Comments and discussion welcome. Thanks.

Great read. Thank you.
It could be that God allows each one to their own understanding. From the pagans, to agnostics, atheists, and Christians. Everyone.

That living as we think is true faith, the proud shall be humbled and the humble shall be blessed.

 

[brightfame52]

JOHN 3:THE TRUE GOSPEL: "THAT THE WORLD THROUGH HIM MIGHT BE SAVED"
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God...
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

The world in Jn 3:16-17 is the world of the elect, and it is saved by and through the Person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ, lest He failed to do what He was sent to do.