>>>>>""Goodness gracious. You have a serious reading comprehension problem.""
The Judgement Seat of Christ as taught by ONLY Paul is not the goats & sheep judgement in Matthew
The "sudden destruction" from which unbelievers "will not escape" on the day of the Lord will be caused by fire coming down on the earth.
- Thread starter Spiritual Israelite
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The Judgement Seat of Christ as taught by ONLY Paul is not the goats & sheep judgement in Matthew
Rom 14:10, 1 Cor 3:10-15, 2 Cor 5:10 ... ..he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved
It's the Judgment Seat of Christ that ONLY Paul teaches and applies to believers saved by the 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 Gospel
SpiritIsrael is having trouble separating that from the goats/sheep judgement taught by Matthew
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Yes, we both are saying the same thing. Born again saints are NEVER condemned.
However, my point is, for each believer of both the old and new covenant, we must come to the biblical truth that prior to the resurrection/glorification of Jesus, NO ONE ever had the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God.
John 7
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
> See also Zechariah 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem;.....[Pentecost].; Ezk. 36:26-27 [Pentecost]. Those are the prophetic words about Jesus TRUE 2ND coming, of Him coming to each of us by His Holy Spirit, knocking on the door of our heart. Rev. 3:20.
Of course, you surely do see that the visible churches (church-ianity) have just about squashed any recognition of HOW IMPORTANT that the Day of Pentecost really is!!!
Sure, they all celebrate His 1ST coming and even His 3RD coming, but....His 2ND coming???
They barely give notice to it!!
Do you agree that no one in all of the OT scriptures ever had the permanent indwelling of God's Holy Spirit?
If so, then you should understand also that no one under that Old covenant ever had the gift of eternal life. Why???
Because, the Holy Spirit Himself is the VEHICLE of the Gift of Eternal Life!!
Rom. 8:9; 1 John 5:12-13.
All who lived then, died in faith believing in "the Promise that was to come", who was/is Jesus. This is what Rev. 6:9-11 is all about. It is all those who were "under the altar" [of God's remembrance- Mal. 3:16-18] that Jesus died for also! They are the figurative 144,000 of OC Israel.
Today, all of them (Abraham, Moses and many of the unnamed of OC Israel) are now IN PARADISE, having been given "white robes" (the HS). They are asleep in Jesus, whose names ARE NOW written/ SEALED in the Book of Life, who is Jesus.
They also are waiting for the Glorious and sudden appearance of Jesus in His Immortality, whereby we altogether with them shall be changed into the likeness of His Immortal Being.
Heb. 11
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect [Immortal].
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Thank you for confirming that you don't want to be taken seriously. No one said anything about a believer not being saved. In Romans 14:10-12 Paul references Isaiah 45:22-24 which shows that unbelievers also will be bowing before Christ to confess that He is Lord. Just as Paul indicated here as well...Like Matt, list the verses in Rom 14:10, 1 Cor 3:10-15, 2 Cor 5:10 that teach a believer is UNsaved
Phiippians 2:9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Every person, saved and unsaved, will appear before the judgment seat of Christ while bowing before Him and acknowledging that HE is Lord.
Romans 14:10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written: “As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.” 12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.
That includes those who are incensed against Him.
Isaiah 45:22 “Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. 23 I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath. 24 He shall say, ‘Surely in the Lord I have righteousness and strength. To Him men shall come, And all shall be ashamed Who are incensed against Him.
Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, I have proven that both believers and unbelievers will appear before the judgment seat of Christ and that is exactly what Jesus Himself indicated in Matthew 25:31-46 as well. And it will happen when He comes again with His angels.
I have backed up my view with scripture. You have backed up yours with nothing.
There is no difference. I am showing that unbelievers will be standing before the judgment seat of Christ, but you are too blinded by your false doctrine to see it. Matthew 25:31-46 clearly portrays both believers and unbelievers standing before Christ for judgment. You are denying the obvious here.
I never said otherwise. This is a waste of time because you're just talking to a strawman instead of me. I'm done with this discussion.
It is, as I have shown. Unlike you, I have shown that Paul was referring to both believers and unbelievers in Romans 14:10-12 because he referenced Isaiah 45:22-24 in relation to the judgment seat of Christ and that passage includes those who are incensed against Him as being among those who will bow before Christ at His judgment seat. You have clearly never studied this topic closely at all.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Why are you so frustrated? I am not talking a strawman argument to you or anyone. I am simply revealing how I understand the scriptures, according to the teaching of the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor. ch. 2.
Therefore, when I do write, I am always considering that others hear what I am saying to the person that I am replying to.
Simply put, in layman's terms, I no longer dwell in the RELIGION of church-ianity.
I do not seek after the approval of men, but rather what the Holy Spirit teaches me and guides me through in the KJV Bible.
Having said that, I can truly say that 1 Cor. ch. 2 is my comfort zone in Christ.
So, if you think that I'm speaking "gibberish", I perceive that you are just attempting to protect a pet doctrine fabricated by "the wisdom of men" in visible church-ianity. With the 1000s of splintered denominations of visible church-ianity that are out there, no one can be blamed for a private interpretation.
Knowing that there can always be more than one lie, but there can never be more than one truth....about everything,.... in Him, I am always in His peace and His rest.
I have learned that there are seven factions that have separated me from the lies of visible church-ianity. They are:
1. There is no such thing as an immortal, eternally living soul.
2. The 70th week and the six works of God in Daniel 9:24 have been completely fulfilled by Jesus.
3. The book of Zechariah and Ezekiel reveals all THREE of the manifestations of Jesus.
4. The joint ministry of John the Baptist and Jesus ARE "God's two anointed ones" (witnesses).
5. No man has ever had the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit until AFTER the death and resurrection of Christ.
6. The figurative 144,000 (12×12000) WERE of OC. Israel, which is based on Mal. 3:16-18; Rev. 6:9-11.
7. Ever since Pentecost, we have been in the figurative 1000 years of God's grace and His longsuffering. 2 Peter 3:15.
I can only be what God has made me to be, as one of His New creatures in Christ Jesus.
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>>>>>""Thank you for confirming that you don't want to be taken seriously
I'll take your hard earned Clown & Joke crown off you when you show where it teaches a believer at the Rom 14:10, 1 Cor 3:10-15, 2 Cor 5:10 Judgement Seat of Christ is NOT saved.
Paul (JudgeSeatChrist) teaches eternal loss or rewards yet NO-ONE is lost
1 Cor 3:15 ..If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved
Matt (goat and sheep judge) teaches goats are lost
Matt 25:33...., but the goats on the left.
41... them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, ..
??????? """Paul was referring to both believers and unbelievers in Romans 14:10-12""
Rom 14:10, 2 Cor 5:10, 1 Cor 3:10-15 << Judgement Seat of Christ - Paul
..If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved
Where do those verses teach an UNsaved believer appears at the Paul - Judgement Seat of Christ ?
Because you made a point to me as if I disagreed with it despite my never having said anything to indicate that I disagreed with it. If you have a point to make to someone else and not to me, then make that clear rather than saying it to me.
I am the same way, yet we still don't agree on some things.
Yes, we need spiritual discernment from the Holy Spirit in order to understand the things that we talk about on this forum. Did you think that I don't know that?
That's complete nonsense. I don't get my beliefs from others. I study scripture for myself. You wonder why I'm frustrated? Because of ridiculous comments that you make like this. You are not worth any more of my time because of that.
I already showed you. You are obviously not reading everything I'm saying. I showed you that Paul referenced Isaiah 45:22-24 in Romans 14:10-12. Did you see that? Do you understand that unbelievers will also be bowing to Christ? That is what the passage Paul referenced in Romans 14:10-12 indicates.
Isaiah 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
24 Surely, shall one say, in the Lord have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
Can you see here that when it talks about every knee bowing to Christ at His judgment seat, as indicated in Romans 14:10-12, that it will include even those "that are incensed against him" who "shall be ashamed" at that time?
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Why are you so frustrated? I am not talking a strawman argument to you or anyone. I am simply revealing how I understand the scriptures, according to the teaching of the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor. ch. 2.
With the 1000s of splintered denominations of visible church-ianity that are out there, no one can be blamed for a private interpretation.
Simply put, in layman's terms, I no longer dwell in the RELIGION of church-ianity.
I do not seek after the approval of men, but rather what the Holy Spirit teaches me and guides me through in the KJV Bible.
Having said that, I can truly say that 1 Cor. ch. 2 is my comfort zone in Christ.
Knowing that there can always be more than one lie, but there can never be more than one truth....about everything, in Him, I am always in His peace and His rest.
I have learned that there are seven factions that have separated me from the lies of visible church-ianity. They are:
1. There is no such thing as an immortal, eternally living soul.
2. The 70th week and the six works of God in Daniel 9:24 have been completely fulfilled by Jesus.
3. The book of Zechariah reveals all THREE of the manifestations of Jesus.
4. The joint ministry of John the Baptist and Jesus ARE "God's two anointed ones" (witnesses).
5. No man has ever had the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit until AFTER the death and resurrection of Christ.
6. The figurative 144,000 (12×12000) WERE of OC. Israel, which is based on Mal. 3:16-18; Rev. 6:9-11.
7. Ever since Pentecost, we have been in the figurative 1000 years of God's grace and longsuffering.
I can only be what God has made me to be, as one of His New creatures in Christ Jesus.
>>>>>""I already showed you.>> You're dreaming Si !!
NOWHERE in Rom 14:10, 2 Cor 5:10, 1 Cor 3:10-15 << Judgement Seat of Christ - Paul have you shown that the UNsaved are there.
Try again
>>>>>""Why are you so frustrated?
Because Scripture does not support the no sense nonsense of Spir Is so he jumps up & down, holds his breath then calls people fools
Earburner
Well-Known Member
> When the Lord returns in all His Glory, it will be a SIMULTANEOUS event of 24 hours!!
There will be no one gathering into LONG waiting lines to be judged!! Luke 17:28-30.
However, the UNSAVED will have been GATHERED into BUNDLES to be BURNED.
Mat. 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, GATHER YE together FIRST the TARES, and BIND THEM IN BUNDLES to BURN them: but GATHER THE WHEAT into my barn.
1. You referenced:
Mat. 25
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
> Did you mean this: 2 Thes. 1
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, WHEN the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 WHEN he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
2. You referenced:
Mat. 25:32 And before him shall be GATHERED all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
> Did you mean this: Rev. 13
15 And he [the 2H Beast-the USA] had power to give [political] life unto the image of the beast [the UN], [so] that the image of the beast [the UN] should both SPEAK, and CAUSE that as many as would not worship [comply with] the image of the beast SHOULD be killed.
16 And he [the UN] CAUSETH [shall separate] ALL, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
> WELL... WILL YOU LOOK AT THAT!!
FOR ALL who did take the MoB, they were GATHERED [separated from the sheep] and BUNDLED.....TO BE BURNED....
Rev. 14
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with FIRE and BRIMSTONE in the presence of the holy angels, and in the PRESENCE of the Lamb:
> DID YOU KNOW WHAT ALL OF THAT IS?
ITS THE Great White Throne Judgment.
> Oh, wait that's not all....did you know that there is NO SUCH THING as an eternal living soul??
Because of that, no one who is UNSAVED (not born again in Jesus) can ever be resurrected from the grave!! Therefore, those who were unsaved and buried in their graves, they shall be BURNED UP IN THEIR GRAVES!!
Rev. 20:14
"And death [no more births] and hell [the graves] were cast [went] into the LAKE of fire [MOLTEN LAVA upon the whole surface of the earth].
"This is [the judgment of] the SECOND death."
> The reason why "this is the second death", is because there will be no one left alive to PRO-CREATE the OLD human race- Rev. 21:4....
Rev. 20:15
And WHOSOEVER was NOT found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE of fire [they were not allowed to continue living, and therefore "SHALL NOT ESCAPE" [1 Thes. 5:3] this burning planet].
> What does that mean??
> It means: back to John 3:18
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
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You already asked that before and I already answered it. You insist on talking to your strawman instead of me. What don't you understand about that? You can tell me what you believe (again) if you want, but you refuse to actually address my arguments.
What does that even mean?
LOL. The judgment will occur in eternity, not in real time. Eternity will be ushered in when Jesus returns. All people will indeed give an account of themselves to Him at that point, but it's not as if there will be a long single file line. We don't know exactly how it will be in eternity, but scripture shows everyone having to stand before Christ in the future after He returns, regardless of how that works. You are trying to say that has already happened or has been happening. No, it has not.
No, I didn't mean that. Revelation 13 happens before Jesus returns. Matthew 25:31-46 happens right after He returns. You are very confused.
Yes, that will happen when Jesus returns. That is the same thing as described in Matthew 25:41.
No kidding. Of course. Did I say otherwise? No, I did not. This is why I say you're talking to a strawman. You're talking to someone who disagrees with you about what Matthew 25:31-46 describes. I agree that it describes the great white throne judgment and never said otherwise.
I already did that. You are the clown here. Did you purposely ignore how I showed that Paul referenced Isaiah 45:22-24 in Romans 14:10-12? Do you somehow not understand that all people, including the unsaved will be bowing down to Christ and confessing that He is Lord? Isaiah 45:22-24 includes those who are incensed against Him as doing that, as I showed you. Only a clown would just ignore the scripture that shows unbelievers standing before the judgment seat of Christ and bowing to Him and confessing that He is Lord.>>>>>""Thank you for confirming that you don't want to be taken seriously
I'll take your hard earned Clown & Joke crown off you when you show where it teaches a believer at the Rom 14:10, 1 Cor 3:10-15, 2 Cor 5:10 Judgement Seat of Christ is NOT saved.
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