The Ten Lost Tribes Theory

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Martin W.

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I have always found it intriguing some of the criteria of the 144,000

- they did not defile themselves with women.
- they kept themselves pure.
- they were purchased from among men.
- no lie was found in their mouths.
- they are blameless.



That certainly eliminates me (smile)

A. Martin
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HammerStone

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My question is based on the possibility that remnants of the tribes have been preserved (by God) throughout the world , and then during the endtimes he will select and seal them (the 144,000 of Revelation)

I happen to believe that the tribes that were scattered abroad (eventually journeying over the Caucus mountains and coming to be called Caucasian) and mixed. I've heard this most often attacked as some form of latent racism, but that misses the point and understanding of what this is all about. It's not anymore racist that God making promises to Israel not made to other nations. Regardless, I think those who hold to this line of belief and those who do not can agree on the point that God knows exactly where Israel is at every instance of time and He will bring these 144,000 forth when the time comes in the purpose He has told us about.

That certainly eliminates me (smile)

You left out an important point - I assume intentionally - they stand redeemed.

[bible=Revelation 14:4]
It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.[/bible]

That's always a game changer.

I in know way want to belittle the 144,000 - but good brothers and sisters do note that in each occasion the innumerable multitude is covered immediately after. These 144,000 are indeed the first fruits, but regardless of status, there is more to come!
 

veteran

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Forgive me for posting this much here (maybe it should be on separate thread). But I feel quite a few would like to know more about what God's Word shows would happen to the ten tribes of the "house of Israel", and what their ultimate duty was to be in the latter days. Apostle Paul quoted from the Book of Hosea in his Epistles about a remnant of Israel which God preserved unto Christ (Romans 9 - 11). So this has to do with greatly with Christian history after Christ's crucifixion and preaching of The Gospel.

At this point in history, God had already split Israel into two separate kingdoms. The house of Judah in the southern kingdom (tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi). And the house of Israel as the northern kingdom of Israel (ten tribes under king Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim or house of Joseph).

Hosea 1:1-11
1 The word of the LORD that came unto Hosea, the son of Beeri, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash, king of Israel.

The timing is during the days after God had split Israel into two separate kingdoms.

2 The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD.
3 So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim; which conceived, and bare him a son.
4 And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.
5 And it shall come to pass at that day, that I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel.

This is about the "house of Israel", the northern kingdom of Israel (ten tribes only) with its capital city at Samaria. God's prophet Hosea is told to take a prostitute for a wife to show Israel its whoredoms of false idol worship. God anointed Jehu king over the ten tribes in place of king Ahab, and told him to destroy the family of Ahab and Jezebel (2 Kings 9). Jehu destroyed Baal worship out of the house of Israel (ten tribes), but he didn't end the golden calves idol worship that Jeroboam had setup, which angered God. Jeroboam's golden idol calf worship in the northern kingdom of Israel (ten tribes) is especially what caused God to end the northern kingdom of Israel, taking all the ten tribes of Israel captive to Assyria and the land of the Medes. Here He is proclaiming His intent to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel. And Hosea's son Jezreel born of a prostitute wife is used to symbolize that.


6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.

Hosea's prostitute wife bear another child, and her name was to be "Loruhamah" (no mercy; not pitied). It was to symbolize God refusing mercy upon the house of Israel, and that He would literally remove them all out of the northern lands of Israel.

But with the "house of Judah" (3 tribes), the southern kingdom of Israel at Jerusalem with its king from the house of David, God says He would preserve them in that time. His mercy was still yet upon them (but they too would fall away from God around 120 years after Israel being taken away).


8 Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.
9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not My people, and I will not be your God.

Hosea's wife bare another son, and his name was to be "Loammi" (literally 'not my people'), given again as a sign of the rebelliousness of the house of Israel (ten tribes).


10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, "Ye are not my people", there it shall be said unto them, "Ye are the sons of the living God."
11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
(KJV)


But then God gives another prophecy, one for the future in final about the house of Israel. It's about the future event of their being gathered back to the land, under one Head (Christ Jesus), and there it shall be said to them, "Ye are the sons of the living God." Apostle Paul quoted this in Romans 9:26 about Christ's Salvation. So this prophecy is a direct link to The New Covenant through Christ Jesus and to include the believing Gentiles with them in that return.

This is a major proof that God has not forgotten the seed of the house of Israel (ten tribes) that He scattered. And these ten tribes if you'll note back in Hosea 1:6-7 are not of Judah ("house of Judah" or Jews). These ten tribes of Israel have been lost, which was a prophecy given later in the Book of Hosea. But included in Hosea is a final prophecy they would be found again, and it involves Christ Jesus, the "one head" they will appoint themselves.


 

veteran

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Veteran:

You often seem to imply that you are a member of one of the "lost tribes"

Correct ??


I might be. You might be too, but who really knows? God knows...

Amos 9:8-10
8 Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.
9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
10 All the sinners of My people shall die by the sword, which say, "The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us."
(KJV)


It's about what God's Word declares that I point to when speaking of the lost ten tribes of the house of Israel. If you follow God's Word of prophecy about them, you too would understand where the majority of them are today. The people that accepted Christ Jesus as God's Saviour is a prophetic pointer to them given in both the Old and New Testament. It involves God's promises He first gave through Abraham, then to Isaac, then to Jacob, then to Joseph, and then to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh...

1 Chr 5:1-2
1 Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father's bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright.
2 For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph's:)
(KJV)

Problem is that it takes up too much space to declare so much of God's Word on the matter that would be much simplier if folks would just read their Bible about it, diligently with discipline, instead of playing Russian roulette with pulling out a verse here and a verse there (which is how most Churches teach today).

 

veteran

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Continuing in Hosea...

Hosea 2:1-23
1 Say ye unto your brethren, Ammi; and to your sisters, Ruhamah.

Ammi means 'my people' and Ruhamah means 'loved', and is applied to the house of Judah at Jerusalem that was still faithful then. In Hosea 1 God was still in favor with the house of Judah at Jerusalem, but determined to end the northern kingdom of the house of Israel for its false idol worship (put as Loruhamah and Loammi). This is a Message for the house of Israel (ten tribes) to plead with her mother (Israel). It's important to keep the symbolic names from Hosea 1 in mind while reading this.

2 Plead with your mother, plead: for she is not My wife, neither am I her husband: let her therefore put away her whoredoms out of her sight, and her adulteries from between her breasts;
3 Lest I strip her naked, and set her as in the day that she was born, and make her as a wilderness, and set her like a dry land, and slay her with thirst.
4 And I will not have mercy upon her children; for they be the children of whoredoms.
5 For their mother hath played the harlot: she that conceived them hath done shamefully: for she said, "I will go after my lovers, that give me my bread and my water, my wool and my flax, mine oil and my drink."


God is speaking this to the house of Israel, the northern kingdom of ten tribes with its capital city at Samaria in the northern lands of Israel. It's about the golden calf idol worship that Jeroboam first setup in Bethel and Dan (1 Kings 12-13). The later kings of Israel over the ten tribes kept continuing in it, king Jehu even following God's command to destroy the family of Ahab and Jezebel, and her Baal prophets in Israel, but still allowing the old gold calf worship that king Jeroboam originally setup in 1 Kings 12. God uses the idea of the house of Israel as a spiritual harlot, going after Baal worship as a prostitute goes after her lovers. They considered their increase came from that, instead of from God, and forgot Him.


6 Therefore, behold, I will hedge up thy way with thorns, and make a wall, that she shall not find her paths.
7 And she shall follow after her lovers, but she shall not overtake them; and she shall seek them, but shall not find them: then shall she say, I will go and return to my first husband; for then was it better with me than now.


This is about God scattering the ten tribes out of the lands of Israel. Eventually, He would bring the kings of Assyria upon them and scatter them to the land of the Medes. The king of Assyria would then place peoples from Babylon in the land in their stead, which became the later Samaritans. God would give the ten tribes to follow after her lovers in Baal worship, and hedge up her paths after scattering so she wouldn't find her way back to her origins. This is where the idea of the ten tribes becoming 'lost' comes from. When the ten tribes of Israel were taken captive to Assyria and the land of the Medes, she became lost, taking on customs of false worship and names of the nations. After a while, she would seek to return, but not find her way back. But per Amos 9 we know God knows... where He scattered the ten tribes to.


8 For she did not know that I gave her corn, and wine, and oil, and multiplied her silver and gold, which they prepared for Baal.
9 Therefore will I return, and take away My corn in the time thereof, and My wine in the season thereof, and will recover My wool and My flax given to cover her nakedness.

The house of Israel (ten tribes) didn't recognize that her corn and wine and oil came from God's blessings, and not from Baal worship. So can you imagine how God felt about the ten tribes recognizing Baal instead of Him? This is why God said He gave the ten tribes a "bill of divorce" (Jer.3). Thus the house of Israel's nakedness was exposed to those captive over her, and the curses God mentioned in Deut.4 and 28 came into effect for her. The Behistun Rock in modern Iraq carved on a mountain side near Ectabana depicts ten Israelite chieftans bound in captivity by the king of Assyria. So there's archaeological evidence for their captivity of 2 Kings 17.


10 And now will I discover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers, and none shall deliver her out of Mine hand.
11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.
12 And I will destroy her vines and her fig trees, whereof she hath said, "These are my rewards that my lovers have given me: and I will make them a forest, and the beasts of the field shall eat them."

This is another way how the ten tribes of Israel became lost to theirselves, and to the world. Unlike the house of Judah, the ten tribed house of Israel became like lost sheep in the desert. She lost her heritage of God's feast days, sabbaths, new moons, and her solemn feasts, and instead followed after Baal idol worship. It begin while in captivity to Assyria and the land of the Medes.


13 And I will visit upon her the days of Baalim, wherein she burned incense to them, and she decked herself with her earrings and her jewels, and she went after her lovers, and forgat Me, saith the LORD.

So God gave the ten tribes of Israel over into Baalism, a pagan idolatry system that began in ancient Babylon. God uses harlot symbology here for Israel's false idol worship, which is very important to understand. It's used a lot in the New Testament Books also for those under Christ that turn away from Him in the last days.


14 Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her.
15 And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt.
16 And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali.


This part of the prophecy is especially important for Christian history. God shows that He would scatter the ten tribes to the wilderness, then "speak comfortably unto her", and "give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth..." Where did this take place?

This prophecy has a dual type fulfillment. It involves acceptance of The Gospel of Jesus Christ by these, along with believing Gentiles they were scattered amongst. That's why apostles Paul and Peter would quote from this concerning Christ's Church under The New Covenant (Rom.9:24-26; Rom.11:30-32; 1 Pet.2:9-10).

The connection when they would no longer think of God as Bali (Baal), but call Him "Ishi" (Man) is in connection with the idea of a friend of God. Abraham was called the Friend of God per James 2:23. That's about God's Promise of Salvation by Faith first given through Abraham (see Gal.3 also).

All this is prophecy of when the ten tribes of Israel were scattered among the Gentiles and would come to Christ while in new lands outside the holy land along with many Gentiles. Since apostles Paul and Peter used this about The Gospel, it has a partial fulfillment when Christ crucified was preached, and many believed. The other fulfillment part of this prophecy is in final with the ten tribes gathered back to the holy land under Christ. That's what Achor is pointing to, which is an area in the holy land (Isaiah 65:9-10). It's like the dual prophecy of our redemption by Faith under Christ Jesus. A believer now becomes "a new creature" by Faith on Christ, but we still wait for the redemption of our body with Christ's coming Kingdom at His return.


17 For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.

Contrary to popular thought, the archaeological and anthropological history of the ten tribes of Israel can be traced. The Assyrian tablets exist to identify their captivity to Assyria while in Baalism, including names of what the Assyrians called them. It's connected with the name Cimmerian that came from Assyria, as translated by professor Leroy Waterman in the 1930's directly from the tablets. Then the field of anthropology and archeology has done much study on the Cimmerian peoples that migrated from the east into Asia Minor and became the founding peoples of the western Christian nations.

The history of the nations of Asia Minor and western Europe before The Gospel was preached to them, is that they were following all sorts pagan idol worship of false gods beforehand. In Britain it was Druidism; in Scandinavia it was Odin, Thor, etc., in Greece it was Apollos and Mars, in Rome it was Mercury, etc., that being an ancient link to Baal worship from the east. But when The Gospel was specifically preached by Christ's Apostles and disciples to those specific nations first outside the holy land, those western nations began to come to Christ on national scales, Britain being the very first on a national scale in the 1st century A.D with the Culdee Church. This why the Book of 2 Esdras in the Apocrypha refers to the ten tribes crossing through the Dariel Pass in the Caucasus Mountains near the Black Sea on their towards the West.

18 And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.
19 And I will betroth thee unto Me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto Me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
20 I will even betroth thee unto Me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the LORD, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth;
22 And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel.
23 And I will sow her unto Me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not My people, "Thou art My people"; and they shall say, "Thou art my God."
(KJV)


This latter part of the prophecy is especially about Christ's coming in final. However, Apostles Paul and Peter both quoted the idea from this last verse about the strangers that were not God's people that obtained mercy through Israel's unbelief, but under Christ Jesus and The Gospel obtained mercy and are now the sons of God, along with those of Israel that believe.

It means the believing Gentiles cannot claim The Gospel came to them only, but also to the ten tribes of Israel that were scattered amongst them to where they both together would become Ammi (My people) to God. This is how the early history of the Christian west is the pointer to where the majority of the lost ten tribes of the "house of Israel" wound up, and again became Ammi to God under Christ Jesus along with believing Gentiles. After the "house of Judah" (Jews) rejected The Gospel, it was those nations of Asia Minor and western Europe where The Gospel was preached next, and accepted on national scales, fulfilling part of the prophecy here in Hosea and in Genesis about God's Birthright promise to Abraham involving Christ's Salvation by Faith. It specifically fulfilled the promise that Ephraim was to become "a multitude of nations" (Gen.48). Per 1 Chron.5, to Ephraim and Manasseh (sons of Joseph) is where God's Birthright wound upon. The first king over the ten tribes was of the house of Joseph, Ephraim, which became the head tribe over the "house of Israel." (1 Kings 11).

The partial fulfillment of this Hosea prophecy under The Gospel of Jesus Christ is about the ten tribes as the founders of the western Christian nations, and that might ire some believing Gentiles, but it should not. For it reveals that God kept His promises to the ten tribes of Israel, and that through their fall The Gospel would also go to the Gentiles, and both the believing Israelite and Gentile together would become Christ's Church.

The other point that's important to remember about this Hosea prophecy, is that it was not about the southern kingdom of the "house of Judah" (Jews of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi). That should be remembered from the Hosea 1 chapter where God showed in Hosea's day Judah was still faithful at that time, and had not yet fallen away to Baal like the ten tribes then did. Around 120 years after God scattered the ten tribes out of the holy land, the house of Judah likewise fell into idol worship of the nations. God brought the king of Babylon upon Jerusalem-Judea and took them captive to Babylon for 70 years. That was a completely different time and different geographical captivity than the ten tribes going to Assyria and the land of the Medes.

In this way, the two houses of Israel became further split by two different captivities. But the Jews of the house of Judah never lost their heritage of God's feast days, sabbaths, etc. Yet a number of Jews were also scattered to the west and came to Christ Jesus along with the ten tribes and Gentiles. This is why the areas Paul and Christ's Apostles were sent to preach involved these nations in Asia Minor and western Europe. Many Jews were scattered within those nations also, while the scattered ten tribes there by then had totally lost their heritage as literal Israelites. The Jews didn't loose their heritage as Israel. And it's in this way that the two houses (two sticks) of Israel are still divided today, for the majority of the house of Judah still refuses The Saviour Jesus Christ.

Not understanding this has created much confusion with Old Testament prophecy involving the two separate houses of Israel. Those who are taught and think only Jews are Israelites will confuse Bible prophecy that is meant only for the ten tribes of the house of Israel and visa versa.
 

aspen

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This is an interesting topic - I really know nothing about the Lost Tribes of Israel except that new religious groups like to believe they are actually the lost tribes like LDS.

The other point that's important to remember about this Hosea prophecy, is that it was not about the southern kingdom of the "house of Judah" (Jews of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi). That should be remembered from the Hosea 1 chapter where God showed in Hosea's day Judah was still faithful at that time, and had not yet fallen away to Baal like the ten tribes then did. Around 120 years after God scattered the ten tribes out of the holy land, the house of Judah likewise fell into idol worship of the nations. God brought the king of Babylon upon Jerusalem-Judea and took them captive to Babylon for 70 years. That was a completely different time and different geographical captivity than the ten tribes going to Assyria and the land of the Medes.



This is a very good point - I have learned something new today - thank you for your research.
 

Doppleganger

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Scythopolis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beit_She'an
Beit She'an's location has often been strategically significant, as it sits at the junction of the Jordan River Valley and the Jezreel Valley, essentially controlling access from the interior to the coast, as well as from Jerusalem to the Galilee. Its name is believed to derive from the early Canaanite "house of tranquility".
Beit She'an is first listed among Thutmose III's conquests in the fifteenth century BC, and the remains of an Egyptian administrative center from the XVIII and XIX dynasties have been excavated. The Bible mentions it as a Canaanite city within the tribe of Manasseh in the Book of Joshua, chapter 17, verse 11 (also Book of Judges 1:27), and its conquest by David and inclusion in the later kingdom is noted, and large Solomonic administrative buildings destroyed by Tiglath-pileser III were uncovered from this period. Its ninth century BC biblical capture by the Pharaoh Shishaq is corroborated by his victory list.
During the Hellenistic period it had a Hellenised population and was called Scythopolis, probably named after the Scythian mercenaries who settled there as veterans, and Greek mythology has the city founded by Dionysus and his nursemaid Nysa buried there; thus it was known as Nysa-Scythopolis. Beit She'an is mentioned in 3rd-2nd centuries BC written sources describing the Syrian Wars between the Ptolemid and Seleucid dynasties, as well as in the context of the Hasmonean Maccabee Revolt, who ultimately destroyed the polis in the 2nd century BC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians
Asians, especially Persians, knew the Scythians in Asia as Sakas. Herodotus (7.64) describes them as Scythians, called by a different name:

http://en.wikipedia..../Jezreel_Valley
The Jezreel Valley takes its name from the ancient city of Jezreel (known in Arabic as Zir'in; Arabic: زرعين‎) which was located on a low hill overlooking the southern edge of the valley, though some scholars think that the name of the city originates from the name of the clan which founded it whose existence is told in the Merneptah stele.. The word Jezreel means "God sows" or "El sows". The phrase "valley of Jezreel" was sometimes used to refer to the central part of the valley, around the city of Jezreel, while the southwestern portion was known as the "valley of Megiddo", after the ancient city of Megiddo, which was located there ... This area has also been known as the Plain of Esdraelon (Esdraelon is the Koine Greek rendering of Jezreel).

http://www.biblewalk.../BeitShean.html
 

Doppleganger

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http://www.biblesear...esisrael7.shtml
“On October 12, 539 BCE, the forces of Cyrus II, the founder of the Achaemenian Empire entered the city of Babylon through the bronze gates of the Euphrates below the city walls, under the command of General Gobryas, leader of the Guti. The city was quickly pacified and this became histories’ most peaceful military conquest of a major imperial city.

Who was this Gobryas and who were the Guti? We find in western Iran, the land of the ancient nation of Media, was the primary home of the displaced tribes of Israel. Here we see the home of the Guti or Catti, a people or tribe the linguists of ancient tongues feel is a derivation of Gadil or Gad or in other words, of the Tribe of Gad. The Guti and the Catti (Gadites) intermingled with the Saki, or the other (12) tribes

It appears that General Gobryas the Guti can possibly now be identified as Gobryas the leader of the Israelites, who were known as the “Wanderers” or “Adventurers” and whose people, the Lost Tribes of Israel, known as the Massagetai in turn sixteen years later, killed Cyrus the Great when he tried to turn against the Israelite nation in exile. Other scholars identify that the Massagetai tribes were actually the Tribe of Manasseh of the House of Joseph. As we shall soon see later, the identity of the Israelites will once again reemerge into a new identity called the “Scythians”, which also means “wanderers”.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobryas
One of the six helpers of Darius in killing Gaumāta in September of 522 mentioned by Herodotus. He was appointed as Darius' lance carrier (arštibara). He is represented on the Behistun inscription and on Darius' tomb in Naqsh-e Rustam,

http://en.wikipedia....tun_inscription
The Behistin inscription includes three versions of the same text, written in three different cuneiform script languages: Old Persian, Elamite, and Babylonian (a later form of Akkadian) — Babylonian being a Semitic language. In effect, then, the inscription is to cuneiform what the Rosetta Stone is to Egyptian hieroglyphs: the document most crucial in the decipherment of a previously lost script.

http://messagenetcom.../Gobryas_1.html
Otanes began to recruit other Persians in what would ultimately be a rebellion; with the help of Gobryas, Intaphrenes, Megabyzus, Darius, Aspathines and Hydarnes, Otanes plotted to murder the false-Smerdis and reclaim the throne of the empire for the Persians; the seven rebels fought their way into the false-king’s chamber and killed him.


http://www.biblesear...esisrael8.shtml
The Danites, upon the destruction of the Citadel of Troy, that powerful city on the Bosporus Straits, settled in the region and there they populated twelve cities. In the “Antiquities of the Jews”, it was Flavius Josephus who wrote that the Lacedemonians, who lived in the Greek provinces were relatives of the Jews (Josephus, Antiquities, XII, IV, 10 and XIII, V, 8.). This was also confirmed by the author of the 1st Book of the Maccabees who wrote:
I Maccabees 12:5-6, 20-21; 14:20 – “And this is the copy of the letters which Jonathan wrote to the Lacedemonians: Jonathan the high priest, and the elders of the nation, and the priests, and the other of the Jews, unto the Lacedemonians their brethren send greeting:…Areus king of the Lacedemonians to Onias the high priest, greeting: it is found in writing, that the Lacedemonians and Jews are brethren, and that they are of the stock of Abraham:

E. P. Ingersol – “Now, with these historic data before us, is it strange that Dan and Simeon, having been left by Shalmaneser, undisturbed in their own lot, yet cut off from all connection with the Kingdom of Israel, to which they belonged, from which they were now separated eternally, so far as they knew -- that they should flee to some far distant land beyond the reach of their oppressors, where they might form for themselves a kingdom of their own, beyond all fear, and beyond all knowledge of their enemies?
Accordingly, we find this the very resolution they adopted. Having been long acquainted with the (to them) far-western lands, and having ships of' their own, it is found that, having embarked with whatever of their effects they could carry, they set sail, (B.C. about 720) and going westward, by the way of Tarshish, now Tartessus; thence through the straits of' Hercules, and around into the great Atlantic, northward.” (Ingersol, “Lost Israel found in the Anglo-Saxon Race; “The Migration of Dan”


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan
At this time the Children of Israel split into three factions. A loyal faction on Mount Gerizim; a heretical faction that followed false Gods; and the faction that followed Eli son of Yafni on Shiloh.

http://www.indyposte...ered-in-israel/

Galilee Region, Nazareth, Danites, Beth Shean & Megiido. It has the closest relation to Judah.
The Heretical would seem to be many of the Saka, land bound tribes, of the northwest-to-east. With smaller fractions splintering into groups such as the Pashtuns, Keifeng Jews, A long list of others, etc ...
The followers Eli son of Yafni of Shiloh, appear to be these west type exilees, escapee's. Gerizam, Shiloh we have Israel with the Ark in the Wilderness. The tribes of Dan, Pharez, etc ...
 

veteran

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This is an interesting topic - I really know nothing about the Lost Tribes of Israel except that new religious groups like to believe they are actually the lost tribes like LDS.

The other point that's important to remember about this Hosea prophecy, is that it was not about the southern kingdom of the "house of Judah" (Jews of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi). That should be remembered from the Hosea 1 chapter where God showed in Hosea's day Judah was still faithful at that time, and had not yet fallen away to Baal like the ten tribes then did. Around 120 years after God scattered the ten tribes out of the holy land, the house of Judah likewise fell into idol worship of the nations. God brought the king of Babylon upon Jerusalem-Judea and took them captive to Babylon for 70 years. That was a completely different time and different geographical captivity than the ten tribes going to Assyria and the land of the Medes.



This is a very good point - I have learned something new today - thank you for your research.


Regardless of what those of "new religions" say (whoever that is), God's Word is true, and God well knows where He scattered the ten tribes, and evidently so did Apostles Paul and Peter also know, otherwise they wouldn't have quoted from the Hosea prophecy about the ten tribes as a scattered people accepting The Gospel of Jesus Christ along with Gentiles to become the western Christian nations. The history of the majority of believers of The Gospel was not with the Jews, not in the middleast, but in the West. And that happenned long before the existence of whatever "new religions" one could come up with today, including LDS.
 

Doppleganger

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The Orignal Babylonian Empire centered in Ninevah was comprised of Assryian leftovers also, the capital was moved to Babylon.

Many Jews stayed behind in Persia or scattered to various communities and nations, many returned to rebuild Jerusalem.

The descendants of Davids Seed became known as princes like Nehemiah,
And the Priestly assumed rulership, But ...

http://yerekmessage....es-scribes.html
The Kenites became know as " Scribes" they began teaching , whats know as , The Oral Law . The traditions decrees, { Aggadah } customs, and other man-made laws was passed down from ,The Kenites people , and became greater than , following Father YHVH Laws .

The books of Ezra and Nehemiah shows, when the small remnant of Judah , Benjamin and a few Levities , came back from their Babylonian Captivity . The Scribes ,[ who where The Kenites ], became the professional interpreters of the Law , and began to teach the commandments and judgments .

In 1 Maccabees 7:12, 13 The Scribes ,again , [ who where The Kenites ] , joined a party of men called ,the Zealous Assideans . The Scribes, quickly through their public realignments words , acquired a great influence over the Hebrew people ,while the Levi priesthood ,lost's its prestige.

Under the Asmonean rule the Sopherim ,The Scribes ,became the leaders of a new party called , the Pharisees . When the Kenites under the tittle of ,Scribes / Pharisees ,were admitted to the Sanhedrin , they began to make void the precepts of the Law . The "Traditions of the Elders" / " Oral Law " customs and interpretations, became greater then ,the teaching that Moses , had delivered to ,The Hebrews , from, Father YHVH .

The " Hagada " [The Talmudic Literature that does not deal with law but with tradition ], prevailed , in the time of The Messiah . He spoke against "The scribes and the Pharisees " calling them " Hypocrites , for layin aside the Commandments of Father YHVH for the "traditions of the elders".

The Messiah himself identifies, These, Scribes and the Pharisees , the once who sit in Moses' seat , as being Descendent's of Cain.

And Idumeans (Sons of Esau) along with Rome ruled Civily.
 

Doppleganger

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4 Houses I Believe, 3 for the Scattered Lost Tribes to the north to NW to NE & 1 for Judah's return.
(Plus, some others thrown in for good measure.)
"Much like the way the Israelites moved in formation with the Ark"

In Jewish tradition, this subject is also called THE TWO HOUSE THEOLOGY.

http://en.wikipedia...._House_Theology

Apparently Jewish scholars have been wrestling with this notion for quite a while. I wonder if any of their thoughts are appropriate to this conversation.

This is why & how all the Nations of the Earth were blessed through Abraham & his descendants.

P.S. - Until 2 Sticks are re-joined.
 

veteran

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4 Houses I Believe, 3 for the Scattered Lost Tribes to the north & 1 for Judah's return.
(Plus, some others thrown in for good measure.)
"Much like the way the Israelites moved in formation with the Ark"



This is why & how all the Nations of the Earth were blessed through Abraham & his descendants.

P.S. - Until 2 Sticks are re-joined.


Good job!

When it comes to Bible history and OT prophecy about the "house of Judah" and the "house of Israel", it's not taught to this level in most Chruches today. It's sort of like listening to the TV in those Churches with how inept they are on this important subject about God fulfilling this Promise among the majority of Israelites of the ten tribes, and a remnant of believing Judah.
 

JarBreaker

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I happen to believe that the tribes that were scattered abroad (eventually journeying over the Caucus mountains and coming to be called Caucasian) and mixed. I've heard this most often attacked as some form of latent racism, but that misses the point and understanding of what this is all about. It's not anymore racist that God making promises to Israel not made to other nations. Regardless, I think those who hold to this line of belief and those who do not can agree on the point that God knows exactly where Israel is at every instance of time and He will bring these 144,000 forth when the time comes in the purpose He has told us about.



You left out an important point - I assume intentionally - they stand redeemed.


Charges of racism can be refuted by science in that as people mix into the different races from spreading after the flood --- we actually lose melanin in out skin based on how much "mixing of the races" occurs. Therefore a dark-skinned race would be more "pure" and contrary to what white supremacists want to say, the lighter-skinned people are actually more "mongrel races" as their genetic material has been more diluted due to the mixing of races over the years and over their travels. (hate to use certain terms even in explanation - please read in context to what I said)



About the 144,000 --- how brother Hammerstone put it is important to keep in mind. And you can see this in scripture in Song of Songs, how it speaks of the concubines and quests without number.

If the bride truly is only the 144,000 then these are the group who have "denied themselves / died to self" and suffered His fires of affliction WILLINGLY before tribulation cast the whole world into turmoil and before He shakes the heavens and the earth. The descriptions people get hung up on --- maidens / virgins, undefiled with women, no lie was found in them --- this is purely figurative and applies to the purifying they go through for the sake of His word and His testimony.
 

Duckybill

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I think that those who are dedicated to finding the 'lost tribes' of Israel are totally wasting their time. God knows and that's all that matters.
 

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I think that those who are dedicated to finding the 'lost tribes' of Israel are totally wasting their time. God knows and that's all that matters.

Jews also call it "Two House Theology" and some of them pursue it's fruitless paths.

I agree that its a waste of time, but do not each of us have similar ways of wasting time - like participating in on line debates?
 

tomwebster

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Jews also call it "Two House Theology" and some of them pursue it's fruitless paths.

I agree that its a waste of time, but do not each of us have similar ways of wasting time - like participating in on line debates?


To each his own I guess. I know where much of Israel is located. You will find them in history if you know how to look and what to look for. Some of Israel has a job in the near future and they need to know who they are. Many of the people that are called Jews are not of our brother Judah.
 

australia

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To each his own I guess. I know where much of Israel is located. You will find them in history if you know how to look and what to look for. Some of Israel has a job in the near future and they need to know who they are. Many of the people that are called Jews are not of our brother Judah.

[font="Arial]
[b][i]Is there a King or Queen still sitting on the Throne of Judah?...[/i][/b]
[url="http://www.originofnations.org/Royals/queens%20descent/The%20Queen%27s%20Royal%20Descent%20from%20King%20David%20of%20Judah.htm"]http://www.originofn...0of%20Judah.htm[/url]
[/font]
 

tomwebster

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[font="Arial]
[b][i]Is there a King or Queen still sitting on the Throne of Judah?...[/i][/b]
[url="http://www.originofnations.org/Royals/queens%20descent/The%20Queen%27s%20Royal%20Descent%20from%20King%20David%20of%20Judah.htm"]http://www.originofn...0of%20Judah.htm[/url]
[/font]


Yes!
 

veteran

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Charges of racism can be refuted by science in that as people mix into the different races from spreading after the flood --- we actually lose melanin in out skin based on how much "mixing of the races" occurs. Therefore a dark-skinned race would be more "pure" and contrary to what white supremacists want to say, the lighter-skinned people are actually more "mongrel races" as their genetic material has been more diluted due to the mixing of races over the years and over their travels. (hate to use certain terms even in explanation - please read in context to what I said)


I wouldn't put much trust in pseuod-science, for it pushes latent racist doctrine all the time. How many of you actually believe that the origin of different races come from living in certain locations upon the earth for a thousand years +?

Yet that's exactly what modern science pushes with how the races came about. That would mean that if a group of Caucasian peoples move to South Africa and live there over a thousand years or so, they'll become a Black race because of being closer to the equator and receiving more sun. And Black people living up near the Arctic over a period of time ought to become Caucasian people. That's what modern science teaches, which is actually pseudo-science when it comes to race origin.

But in reality, God created ALL the races the way He wanted, and said it was very good. The Hebrew of Gen.1:26-27 shows God created mankind (races) and a specific man Adam He placed in His Garden, all on His 6th day. Archaelogical evidence exists to show different races existed all the way back to 3800 B.C. (Babylonian clay tablets about the Sumerians). The man Adam goes back to 4004 B.C., so 3800 B.C. is only 200 years difference. Sayce the Assyriologist, has his original translation of when Sargon appeared among the ancient Sumerians (a different race) as 3800 B.C. (see Sargon The Magnificent). A metal mask of Sargon's facial features is still in the British Museum showing Sargon was Semitic.

On the Behistun Rock mountain carving in northern Iraq by king Darius the Mede, tribal chieftans of the lost ten tribes are shown bound one behind the other. Their facial features are Semitic Indo-European, i.e., Caucasian. Those of Judah today also have those same features, and they've lived all over the earth in different places for thousands of years, and they're race has not changed because of geography (unless they mixed with other races).

So changing race by a deeper suntan because of being in a location with more sun, or lighter skin because of being in a less exposed area of the sun, is a pseuod-science hoax. It's only a ploy by Satan's servants to get God's people to mix up their race how He created them and by doing so destroy their national identity as Israel. That's why Christ's enemies continually push TV shows and movies that's it's OK for races to mix. Whatever race you were born of, be proud of it, because that's how God created us in the beginning.