DaDad said:
Hi Guestman,
If your assertion is correct, then why does Dan. 2:41 & 45 depict FIVE world empires, versus the Four which you ascribe?
Dan. 2
41 And as you saw the feet and toes partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom
45 ... the
iron, the
bronze, the
clay, the
silver and the
gold ...
= 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE
There are only four different metals ("head of gold", ancient Babylon, "chests and arms of silver", Medo-Persia, "abdomen and thighs of copper", Greece, "legs of iron", Rome, as well as the "feet....partly of iron and partly of clay", the Anglo-American dual world power) mentioned at Daniel 2, that corresponds to the "beasts" of Daniel 7.
It need be noted that four "beasts" are seen at Daniel 7 and are ancient Babylon ("like a lion", Dan 7:4, world power from 632 B.C.E. to 539 B.C.E.), Medo-Persia ("like a bear", Dan 7:5, world power from 539 B.C.E. to 331 B.C.E.), Greece ("like a leopard", Dan 7:6, world power from 331 B.C.E. to 31 B.C.E.) and Rome ("fourth beast, fearsome and terrifying and unusually strong", Dan 7:7, world power from 31 B.C.E to 476 C.E.),
these having come and gone.
However, from the breakup of the Roman Empire (the "feet...partly of iron and partly of clay", Dan 2:33) came another "beast", though not mentioned as a "beast" in the book of Daniel, but as an extension of the Roman Empire. How so ?
With the downfall of the Roman Empire in 476 C.E., by Germanic warlord Odoacer and Rome's dissolution, this once powerful empire had it "feelers" as far west as Britain, and in fact had established a fort there in about 44 C.E. Even later, a small encampment called Roman Londinium or Roman London was formed and of which last year (2013) when an excavation was being done in a part of London, there was found some 10,000 items that belonged to the Romans, uncovering such items as an amber amulet in the shape of a gladiator's helmet, showing once their presence there.
Hence, from Rome's breakup came another world power, Britain that combined with its once colony, America, to bring into existence the Anglo-American dual world power in 1917 C.E. in these "last days". These now work cooperatively as basically "one", having a common language and characteristics.
But the Anglo-American world power does not have the same powerful capabilities that the Roman Empire displayed (having "large iron teeth....devouring and crushing", Dan 7:7), for Britain/America is "mixed with the people" (Dan 2:43, clay does not have the same strength as iron, but can relatively easily be broken, Dan 2:41, showing that Britain/America is not as strong as it could be, that the Roman Empire [totally called "iron", no mixture] displayed), showing that this world power is greatly impacted by the demands of its people, whereas the Roman Empire used force when it deemed necessary, regardless of how it affected their people or anyone. The Roman Empire's military machine was unmatched at its height of power, such as during the time of Jesus.
For example, governor Pontius Pilate used money (without permission) from the temple treasury in Jerusalem to build an aqueduct from a place some 25 miles away to bring water into Jerusalem. Large crowds clamored against Pilate for doing this. So Pilate sent disguised soldiers to mix in with the crowd and, at his signal, attack them, injuring some and killing some.(Luke 13:1)
The Anglo-American dual world power is the
last of the seven world powers mentioned in the Bible, its decimation (along with all other political governments on the earth) coming very soon.(Rev 16:14, 16, Armageddon is a world situation, not a location in the Middle East)
DaDad said:
Hi Guestman,
Rev. 12:3
3 And another portent appeared in heaven; behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems upon his heads.
Rev. 13:1
And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems upon its horns and a blasphemous name upon its heads.
You cite the seven heads and associated ten horns / ten diadems. However you do not explain how/why the diadems transitioned from the seven heads / seven diadems to the ten horns / ten diadems, -- and why the order changed from heads/horns to horns/heads.
I tried to elicit an explanation from another Forum poster, but he was unable to answer this simple question. And so I turn to you to respond.
With Best Regards,
DaDad (DD)
At Revelation 12:3, it says that "another sign was seen in heaven. Look! A great fiery-colored dragon, with seven heads and ten horns and on its heads seven diadems", whereas Revelation 13:1 says that "it (the "dragon" or Satan as the "wild beast" creator) stood still on the sand of the sea. And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, and on its horns ten diadems, but on its heads blasphemous names." Why the difference ?
Simply put, Satan, as the "dragon" and creator of the "wild beast" (the entire political system throughout the earth), holds sway or control of
all the earth, exercising authority
through the "seven heads". The seventh "head" or Britain/America is a force that now dominates and Satan works through the
composite "head", not through each individual "diadem" that each nation has.
Since the inception of the "wild beast" some 4,000 years ago, Satan controls all political nations and their agencies, and is now doing this through the seventh "head", Britain/America, so that he (Satan as the "dragon" with "diadems" on it seven heads, showing his royal authority earthwide) "pulls the strings" invisibly through the seventh world power of Biblical history.
With the seven heads of the political "wild beast" each having "diadems' on each horn represents that each government exercises their own power or authority, such as Britain has its own governmental arrangement (considered a monarchy) while the U.S. has its own political setup (called a democratic system), having
each their own royal authority, but working together as "one".
Hence, Satan manipulates the earth through the
combined political arrangement of Britain/America as one "head" with its "diadems", not as two individual governments in which each has its own "diadem" or ruling authority, establishing their own country's policies, apart from the other.
For instance, Medo-Persia (the fourth "head" in succession, Rev 13:1) was two separate governments, but functioned as "one", with each having it own "diadem" or ruling authority (when Cyrus was king, Media exercised more power than Persia, for Daniel 7:5 says that the "bear...was raised up on one side", one side being higher or exercising more power within the combination)
But also to be noted is that on the ' seven heads ' of the political "wild beast" is "blasphemous names". Why ? Because the masses of mankind placed their own particular governmental system above God's rulership, this being blasphemy.
And for the now existing National Council of the Churches of Christ to say (Dec 18, 1918) concerning the "scarlet-colored wild beast" (Rev 17:3), that was proposed in 1918 as the League of Nations by Britain/America and began operation in 1920, that "such a League is not a mere political expedient; it is rather the political expression of the Kingdom of God on earth.....The League is rooted in the Gospel." The churches have supplanted God's Kingdom with the League of Nations (and later, with the United Nations) as supposedly God's means to bring "peace on earth". What blasphemy !
