The Three Beasts in Revelation

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Bible_Gazer

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How do some of you believe on the three different beasts ? Since some believe Revelation is all future or before 70AD

1st Beast
Revelation 13:1-2
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

2nd Beast
Revelation 13:11
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

3rd Beast
Revelation 17:4
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Revelation 17:8-11
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.


You have three different places that the beasts come from. - sea, earth, and bottomless pit

You have:
1st beast- with ten horns
2nd beast- two horns
3rd beast -10 horns, no crowns, with a woman sitting on it.

Then it mention in several place as if the two beasts are working together = "The Beast and the Image of the Beast"

Their Time limit :
1st beast -42 months
2n beast -_? short space ?
3rd beast- 1 hour

Their powers:
1st beast - from the dragon
2n beast - power from the first beast
3rd beast - Ten Kings

The Woman ruled over the Ten kings
Revelation 17:18
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

So can you explain
or
do you see
Three Beast with three different works at the same time ?
 

Floyd

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Feb 28, 2014
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From Bible Gazer:


1st Beast
Revelation 13:1-2
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

2nd Beast
Revelation 13:11
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.






From Floyd:

CHAPTER 13


[SIZE=14pt]NOTE: (Nov. 2012) Considerable detail is given in this Chapter of the first and second 'Beasts' emergence, the Satanic marking of those on earth who will 'worship the Beast,' (some say Israel only,) and also clues re. the name of the Beast/Anti-Christ. Mystery still surrounds much of what Scripture says here, but, if the current 'Arab Spring' is linked to these events, we may be seeing the emergence of the 'First Beast!' The Nations involved currently are of Scripture listing, so at the very least these events may be the 'beginning of birth pangs' as mentioned by Jesus in Matt. 24:8.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]July 2013 and 2014 Jan.; if the above premise is right, then the current turmoil in Egypt may be the beginning of the first "beast", morphing into the second beast of verses 3 & 4. The second is "religious", as opposed to the first which is "political". It must be said here that there is much division of opinion on what is actually happening at present in the Mediterranean area. This means that the above thoughts are not generally accepted.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The very least that knowledgeable, keen and curious Christians should do, who are interested in what is going to happen from Bible prophecy, is to prayerfully watch events, at the very least a formation is taking place at present![/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]V.1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]And (a)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]he [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]stood on the sand of the sea, and I saw a (b)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]wild beast [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]coming up out of the sea, having (c)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]ten horns[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] and[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] seven heads,[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] and on his horns[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] ten crowns, [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]and upon his heads (d)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]names of blasphemy.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]V.2[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet as the feet of a bear its mouth as a lion’s[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] mouth, and the (e)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]dragon[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] gave it [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]this power, [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]also [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]its throne, [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]and [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]great authority.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt](a) [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]"He;"[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] this is translated in AV as "I." [/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]However, as this verse in the original undivided text follows V.17 of Chapter 12, the reference is almost[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] certainly to Satan. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] (Chapters and verses have only been inserted into the Bible in recent times.) Therefore [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Satan oversees (as the god of this world) [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]as he stands on the edge of the sea the[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]rising of the beast.[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]Sea is often used in Scripture as a metaphor for peoples / nations, so here "he," watched the rising of a particular grouping of peoples, or personage, or both! Satan oversees this birth, whereas [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Almighty[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]God oversaw the birth of Christ from Israel (12:1-5.)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt](b) [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]"Wild beast;" [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]this is the first reference in Scripture to such since Daniel (B.C. 495.) In his day, the nation of Israel was in exile in Babylon from his youth for [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]70 years[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt],[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] and he was a man (Prophet) much loved by God (Dan. 9:23,) (Dan. 10:19.) Daniel was given the ability to interpret dreams, in the Power and Permit of Almighty God, to which he always paid homage and witness to His power; and did so on a number of occasions in his early captivity. One of those dreams much troubled Nebuchadnezzar (Dan. 2) and concerned the image of a man. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Daniel, after witnessing to the source of the dream (Dan. 2:28)[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]gave its meaning (Dan. 2:29-45.) The man's image represented 4 kingdoms.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]1) The head of gold represented Babylonian empire, symbol [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]LION[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]B.C. 626 -539.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]2) The chest and arms of silver, Medo - Persia,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] BEAR [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]B.C. 539 - 330.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]3) Belly and thighs of bronze, Greek empire, [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]LEOPARD[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]B.C. 330 - 63.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]4) Legs of iron, Roman Empire, Eagle? (Terrifying beast) B.C. 63 - [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]to: (A.D. 70 as regards Israel!)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]* Note: The feet are discussed in verse 8 notes.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The important principle in the above for the purpose of the Almighty, and the record made by the Holy Spirit in the Bible, is not the kingdoms as such, [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]but the[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] fact that they impinge on ISRAEL when the[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]history of Israel is current (defined as "Ammi", My people)[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] as opposed to the history of mankind generally. Such is the present success of Satan, that mankind is blinded to the importance of the [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Divine Clock regarding Israel.[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt] Israel is special to God, and are called such on many occasions in Scripture, because [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]God chose Abraham, because He knew his heart, [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]and that he would be prepared to stand against the Satanic idolatry around him, Abraham responded[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]in faith,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] and [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]all the[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] promises of God in the Old Testament relate to Abraham,[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]and subsequently Israel.[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt] Because of this fact,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] only events affecting Israel [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]in human history, and the purposes of God[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] are the subject of prophecy and record in the Bible. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] For example; in item 4) above, the Roman Empire ceased to be important in the Divine Plan at A.D. 70,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] BECAUSE ISRAEL HAD BECOME "LO-AMMI," (NOT MY PEOPLE) (HOSEA 1:9,) and that was as a consequence of the rejection of Christ as their Messiah![/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]At some stage in the future, Jewish history as defined above will re-commence. There is however only a short time left in the Divine prophetic time scale,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] as laid out to Daniel in Dan. 9:27; which gives only 7 more years of that prophecy to run. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]In between Dan. 9:26 and V.27, already approximately 1,930 years have elapsed. These however are not Jewish years of 360 days, but a mixture of Julian and Gregorian, which allows for lost and or gained time counting. In short it is probably not possible to know the exact Jewish year which we are now in, although some claim to know (i.e. on the 1/10/00, the Jewish new year of 5,761 begins according to Jewish "Rabbinical wisdom.") [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] Even if it was known, it is irrelevant, as only God the Father knows the[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]time when the Jewish nation will become[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] "[/SIZE]AMMI" (MY PEOPLE,) [SIZE=12pt]again, (Hos. 2:23,) (Zech. 13:9,)[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt](Rom. 9:26,) (1Peter 2:10.) [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]In Dan. 9:27 the statement of [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]"a covenant," [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]gives the probable clue as to commencement of the final 7 years of the prophecy,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] as that "covenant," will be for peace for Israel.[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] When they think they have "peace and safety;" Satan in the guise of the beast in V.2 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]will strike [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt](Ezk. 38:14,) (1Thess. 5:3,)[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] for the last time against Israel, (prior to the Millennial Reign); "in the midst of the week,"[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]i.e. half way through the 7 year period described above. [/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]However, turning now to the beast described in V.1 and V.2; put into its context in chapter 13 of Revelation, and bearing in mind the above, a few comments can be made with some certainty.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]1) The symbols of empires, Leopard, Lion, Bear, are repeated from earlier empires, [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]affecting Israel as a nation.[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt] I.e. there have been other empires in that area since, [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]but Israel was not a Nation in their land, under Jehovah; when their, prophetic progress is current![/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]2) Since 1948 Israel has officially been recognised as a nation (by the then League of Nations, now the U.N.) That was the first time since A.D. 70, and the Jews kept their unique identity wherever they were scattered, although very few know their tribe of origin,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] but their Jehovah God does![/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]3) [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]The fact that they are now a Nation [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]in the eyes of the world,[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]probably augers the re-commencement of their Divine History, i.e. the last 7 years of Dan. 9, in the near future.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]4)[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] The identities of the[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] Leopard[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], Lion[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] and [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Bear [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]are known from Dan. 2, and this last "beast" is certainly in the prophetic geographical area,[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]and in characteristics shows an amalgam of these and the previous Roman Empire. These empires covered and overlapped each other, and in the crossroads to Asia, Africa and Europe in what was known as[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] Palestine, [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Israel is central.[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]The yet future empire (beast) described in[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] this chapter has Israel at its focal point, and is further described in Dan. 2:41-44.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]5) The specific nations involved are probably given in[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] Ezk. 32, 38, and Psm 83, [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]all of which fit the above criterion, and are in the "prophetic area,"[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] i.e. the known world of Old Testament prophecy,[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]and directly affecting the chosen people, Israel.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]6) [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]The animal symbols given probably show characteristics of this beast, again referring to Daniel 2:29-45. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]The "Leopard;" speed,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] Alexander's empire from Macedonia to the Indus river, was conquered and formed in 8 years! [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]The "Bear;"[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]Medo-Persia, present day Persia (Iran,) Iraq, Caucuses peoples, and half of Turkey. These may be the "feet," of the beast, they bear the weight. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]The "Lion;"[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]the Babylonian Empire, with the, now defunct ancient city of Babylon at the centre, is present day Iraq, of recent infamous history. This is possibly the head/ mouth of the beast, although there is much difference of opinion on this; see Chapter 18.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt] - To summarise; this beast will form very quickly, "Leopard."[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]It will also consist of part of ancient and modern Greece,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] part now Turkey, (the area of the 7 churches. "Ekkiesia".)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] - Its extent will be roughly the area of the Medo-Persia Empire, "Bear."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] - Its head/ mouth will possibly be Babylon -[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]"Lion." (As mentioned this disputed idea may be as Chapter 18, but many think Babylon is to be rebuilt. At present, 2014 this is not our view!)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt](c) "Ten horns and seven heads;" these are well described in Dan. 7:7-8, and Dan. 7:19-28. This end time empire Confederation (beast) will probably be of the nations described above. The horns are ten kings (Dan. 7:24,) three will be replaced by one who is more powerful (V.20.) They are located in 7 countries (or areas) of the above mix.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](d) [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]“Names of blasphemy;" this fact underlines him whose power reigns in this empire; Satan.[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt] His throne (power base) will be in [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Pergamum (ancient Greece) (Rev. 2:13,) [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt](i.e. in present day Turkey,) and [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]his whole effort will be to attempt to annihilate Israel with all the power available to him[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt].[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] The "names of blasphemy," will show in part in his attempt to persuade the people of Israel and the world [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]that he is God,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] and he will show much power and wonders to that end, [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]his is the unforgivable sin (Matt. 12:31) and those that follow him appear to suffer the same fate. See note [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]14:1(c.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](e) Satanic beyond all previous, with Satan's[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]power[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] and authority beyond description. As we know from Rev. 12:12 Satan knows his time is short, and he will condense the evil and terror.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]V.3[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]And one (a)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]head slain;[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]and its (b)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]death stroke was healed:[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt] and all the (c)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]world [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt](earth)[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]marvelled and followed [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]after the beast (empire,) (person).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt](a) [/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]"Head slain;"[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt] this "head," (nation or geographical area or individual,) "slain," is certainly one member of the empire vanquished by "the little horn," (Dan. 8:9,) which may be equated to civil war in the Confederation, and / or its leader slain.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](b) [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]"Death stroke healed;"[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt] whatever the actual event or detail, the nation and or individual is revived in such a way as to cause great admiration and wonder in the world,[/SIZE] and raises the status and standing of the [SIZE=12pt]"little horn." [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]It is notable that this supernatural event [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]which is surely counterfeit of Our Lord's work,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] draws such awe, praise and worship to the individual responsible, [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]whereas the miracles of our[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]Lord were and are virtually ignored.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](c) These events cause the world to adhere to and follow the empire's Confederation's leader.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]V.4 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]And they (a)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]worshipped the dragon[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]because he gave (b)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]power to the beast [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt](leader of the Confederacy:)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] and they (a)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]worshipped[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]the beast[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] saying, (c)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]"Who is like the beast?[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] and who is able to make war with (d)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]it?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt](a)[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]The stage of [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]"worship,"[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] is now reached, which has been and is Satan's purpose throughout his existence, since his rebellion against his Creator.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](b) The world's peoples see and know the beast (Confederation) has huge power both natural and supernatural. They have seen death defeated by him[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt](apparently,)[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] and as is the case now,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] are more easily disposed to the worship of anything but the One True God.[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]Such is the lying skill of Satan (Dan. 8:23-24,) that even[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]usually Godly and true people will be led astray [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt](Matt. 24:24,) because they will not know Scripture, have been[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]taught wrongly by present day leaders and shepherds![/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt] But we do know that at that time [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]some do see and hear,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] Christ directly, see [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]1:20(a)(b.) [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] As has been shown in the early chapters, [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]this is the new description of the people of the Almighty, (for that time of the events of the 7 years especially the last 3½, Overcomers.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](c) The people know that at that moment in time the beast and its backer (Satan) have no equal on earth, and that no other power on earth can vanquish it, but they underestimate the power of Holy Spirit given to the Overcomers (Rev. 1:20,)[/SIZE] and the actions of God after the Seals release!
[SIZE=12pt](d) Interlinear and J.N. Darby translate[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] "it."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]V.5[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]And there was given to him a mouth speaking (a)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]great things [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]and (a)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]blasphemy; [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] and[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] power [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]was given to him to continue (b)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]forty[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]two months.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt](a) See Daniel 7:25, and 14:1(c.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](b) See Daniel 7:25, forty two months, 3½ years, this is the second half of the 7 years mentioned above (Dan. 9:27,)[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] it is also the time of the worst ever tribulation for Israel, and the time that the two Witnesses of Jehovah are active in Jerusalem (Rev. 11:3-12.)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]V.6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]And he opened his mouth in (a)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, and those that dwell in heaven.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt](a)[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] (Dan.7:25.) The anger of the beast/Satan at his defeat in heaven, his knowledge that his time is short on earth [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] if he cannot annihilate Israel, [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]leads him to slander God Almighty (the unforgivable sin, Matt. 12:31, and 14:1c ) See: [/SIZE][SIZE=medium] Unforgivable Sin, what is it? and why it's Important.[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] (Separate study)[/SIZE][SIZE=13.5pt];[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] His Name (all that God is) and His dwelling place, and all that dwell with Him. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Satan covets all that God is,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] has, and will achieve at the end of their conflict. Satan is/seems convinced that many people will come to him, as happened with Heavenly Creation, but he is already seeing that both in heaven and earth [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]the Father's Love is winning in Christ.[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]In his now desperate and furious state, he turns to attempt final victory on earth,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] the only theatre of action now left to him, which if he can destroy Israel utterly, he voids the promises of God to Abraham/Israel.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]V.7[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]And it was given to him to make (a[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt])war [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]with the (b)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]saints[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt], and to (c)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]overcome them: [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt](d)and [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]power was given him over all kindred’s, and tongues and nations.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt](a) "War;" the Greek word used means [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]"special attack."[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt] This word emphasises the murderous venom which the beast/Satan now brings to bear on [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]"the saints."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](b) [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]"The saints;" [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] the Roman church and its misuse and abuse of this word clouds the understanding. The Greek "HAGIOS," means "separated ones," or "holy and separated ones." With this definition, it could apply to whichever group or person the Holy Spirit desires. In this case, it in context undoubtedly refers to the Jews, especially those Jews who are to receive protection in the 42 months mentioned. However, there will certainly be Jews and non-Jews who are the focus of Satan/beast attacks, fitting the [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]"Overcomers,"[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] category. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] Some groups of Christians feel it applies to themselves,[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]but there are many clues in Scripture which would preclude that, one of which is in the next verse.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](c) [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]"Overcome them;" [/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]Satan/beast will be allowed to oppress the Jewish nation to a degree [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]never before experienced, [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]which with the record of the 1939-45 world war, is ominous.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](d) The beast/Satan also has power given to him[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]to pursue and persecute all the nations of the world. (See note at the beginning of Chapter 9.)[/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]V.8[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]And all that dwell upon the earth shall (a)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]worship[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]him every one whose name is not written in the [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt](b)book of the life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt](a) Here is reached probably the highest point on earth (as opposed to heaven) for the beast/Satan who now has many of the earth's population openly worshipping him directly, and via. his[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] false messiah[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]and false prophet, [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]some believing that he is the true God.[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]It is quite possible that the charade of Satan is so convincing that the established religions will accept him as [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Messiah (in the case of the Jews,) the risen Christ (in the case of Christendom,) the hidden Imam (in the case of Islam,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]) the 5th Buddha (in the case of Buddhists,) and the Maitreya (in the case of the New Agers.) [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]This especially so as the beast will "hate the whore," [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt](Rev. 17:16)[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] and appear to destroy her, which is clearly[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] false righteousness[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] for the effect of drawing their large groups together. The question arises, who is this entity described as[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]"the beast?"[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt](See 2:6 above.)[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt] Chapter 2 of Daniel describes the figure in Nebuchadnezzar's dream. When the legs are reached they are described as iron (V.33,) and from history are clearly military and religious Rome. The ending of the military phase of Rome started in the 4th century A.D.[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] under Constantine. [/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]He and his [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]very influential mother Helena,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] began the conversion of the empire [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]into a military and religious body,[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]for many reasons, including the main one, [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]effective control of the empire and people. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] Constantine set up his own capital at Byzantium/Stambul (Istambul) which he re-named Constantinople. This alienated Rome, which by the 11th century A.D., split completely into the East and West of the original [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]"Holy Roman[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]Empire." [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Since then the two have established separate orthodoxies, i.e. Eastern Orthodox, and Roman Church, (two legs, left and right.) The feet of the dream (Dan. 2:41) and the toes, 5 from the left leg, and 5 from the right leg; (V.42) are the subject of our present study. Verse 1 describes it as having 7 heads and 10 horns (the horns are assumed to be the toes of the "image" Dan. 2:41.) Other references to it are in Dan. 7:7 "ten horns," and 7:20 "ten horns." In 7:20 and 7:24[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] another horn rises and subdues 3 of them, and becomes very powerful. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]It is that horn in its power base that "makes war with the saints," 7:21, 7:25.[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]In Rev. 13, the beast has 7 heads. In Dan. 7:20 the ten horns are on one head, implying that the 7 nations have[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] become one power (Confederation,)[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] under the most powerful horn 7:21. The identity of the little horn is the next concern. In Dan. 8:23 we are shown that he arrives out of the divided kingdom of Alexander the Great, (8:21-22,) which divided between his four Generals at the death of Alexander. We also have many Scripture references to him. I.e; in Dan. 8:23 the correct Hebrew shows that "the transgression," [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt](against Israel) [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]are to reach a peak, before "he," "shall stand up."[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]This clearly points to the Tribulation imposed on the Jews by him [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt](Satan)[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] in the background, and almost certainly his full exposure ("standing up") will correspond with the[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] breaking of "the covenant," (Dan. 9:27.)[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]His highest representative on earth is commonly called "Antichrist." Through the Ages he has had various roles on earth i.e. (Isa. 14:4,) (Isa. 14:12,) (Isa. 14:25,) (Dan. 7:8) (Dan. 8:23,) (Dan. 9:26,) (Dan. 11:36,) (Mic. 5:5,) (2 Thess. 2:3,) (2 Thess. 2:8,) (Rev. 13:1,) (Rev.13:18.) Some of the above apply to his future role as Antichrist.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]In summary, the "little horn," Antichrist emerges from the 4th beast (confederacy) as its leader. Initially magnanimous to Israel, there is a 3½ year period of peace for them. After the first 3½ years, he breaks the agreement with Israel and they enter persecution (Jer. 30:7,) known in prophecy as "Jacob's trouble," for 3½ years. [/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]However, this is the stage of the dramatic re-entry of the Christ of Jehovah onto the world stage for the first time in Power (Dan. 2:34-35, 44 and 45,) (Isa.) (Zech.) (Ezk.) etc.[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] Simultaneously or partly simultaneously (apparently) much is happening to the nations of the world, which is not of Satan, but the[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]"wrath of[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]God," (Rev. 16:1.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](b)[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] "Book of the life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world." [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] The word "foundation" in Greek is "Katabole," which means [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]"overthrow."[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] This seems to have occurred at some stage between Gen. 1:1, and Gen. 1:2, see:[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]The Age of the Earth Controversy:[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt] No information is given as to the reason, but is implicit in Almighty God's Plan of Redemption in Christ, as the Lamb's book of life started after that event! Much clarity is given by Paul and Peter regarding this juncture point. It is clear from Eph. 1:4, and 1 Peter 1:20 that some are "known," before the "overthrow," some after. Only Christ and His Body as shown in Eph. 1:4 and 1Peter 1:20 are "known" before the overthrow (foundation.)[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]Those after are the Jew, and other groups, i.e. perhaps Christendom (religious but not of the Body of Christ,) Overcomers of Revelation, and all who must eventually stand before the Great White Throne for Judgement.[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt] Here those after are referred to. Those before are possibly, probably, in the opinion of the writers, no longer on earth as mentioned earlier, (see chp. 8:1(a,) last para.) Some opinions are that The Lamb's book of life started before the overthrow/foundation, which however is not the writers view, as that does not concur with Scripture's statements, (see ref. Rev.3:5(c).) What is clear is that The Lamb's Blood is retrospective from the overthrow/foundation, and that there are two groupings, those known before and those after.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]V.9 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt](a)If any person have an ear, let them hear[/SIZE][SIZE=13.5pt]. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt](a) This form of words only ever used by [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Our Lord alone[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] (Matt. 7:29.) [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] In Revelation the first usage was 2:7, this is the 8th and last in Revelation. The fact of its 8th position, indicates a new commencement, or new beginning (App. 10 Comp.) in the following chapters much detail is given on what has already been covered briefly. The pronouncement (or warning) to understand, clearly stands on the edge of the wrath of God, (Rev. 16:1.) Our Lord's use of the phrase 7 times in His earthly walk, [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]was always used to draw special[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]attention to what He was saying,[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]and to emphasise its crucial and eternal nature. The 7 occasions are; (Matt. 11:15,) (Matt. 13:9,) (Matt. 13:43,) (Mark 4:23,) (Mark 7:16,) and (Luke 8:8,) (Luke 14:35.) The fact of the number 7, puts the mark of the Holy Spirit onto the Lord's words, 7 denoting spiritual perfection, (App. 10 Comp.)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]V.10 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt](a)He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patient endurance and the faith of the saints.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt](a) These are known as "Hebraisms," (or Hebrew idioms,) (sayings,) which when the Holy Spirit uses them in Scripture, have the meaning of inescapable inevitability. In this case meaning, "none will escape the meaning and the beast," (Comp.) but that patient endurance will[/SIZE] see the demise of the beast!, as he is the one being led into captivity eventually.


[SIZE=14pt]V.11[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]And I saw (a)another (b)east coming up out of the earth; and he had (c)two horns like a lamb[/SIZE], and he was (d)speaking as a dragon.

[SIZE=12pt](a) "Another;" the Greek word (allos,) means [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]"another of the same kind," (Comp. App. 124-1.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](b) "Beast;" (i.e. "wild beast," but distinguished from that of V.1.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](c) The fact of similarity to a [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]"lamb,"[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] shows inescapable similarity to the [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]"Lamb of God,"[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] and is intended as such. The two horns speak of testimony (App. 10) or difference. When two testimonies agree, it is conclusive. Horns in Scripture always speak of kingships, or power (relative to earth.) So here two horns agree, (testimony,) conveyed by "a lamb," (spiritual or religious figure.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](d) "Speaking as a dragon;" in Scripture,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] only Satan.[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] So, after the first beast (political,) arises and is established, this second "beast," (religious) arises[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]which is empowered by Satan, and whose task is to bring about worship from the people (V.15,) [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]and therefore remove worship and allegiance from the"One True God," Jehovah Zebaoth! [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] This beast is led by the false prophet of Chp. 16:13, 19:20, 20:10.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]V.12[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]And he exercised all the (a)power [/SIZE]of the first beast before him, and caused the earth and them that dwell therein to (b)worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

[SIZE=12pt](a) Here the 2nd "beast," shows itself to be similar to the first (V.11,) with the same power, but with a different emphasis.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](b) The emphasis is [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]"worship!"[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]The politics of the first beast brought about the attention and focus of the peoples, which is now to be turned further into "worship," (vicariously of Satan) which as stated previously is the motive force and objective of Satan from earlier ages.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]V.13 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]And he doeth (a)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]great wonders[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] including making (a)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]fire[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] descend from heaven onto the earth in the sight of men,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]V.14[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]And (b)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]deceived[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] them dwelling on the earth by means of those wonders, which it was given him to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an (c)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]image to the beast, [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]which had the wound of a sword, and did live.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt](a) "Great wonders;" nothing impresses mankind more than demonstrations of power, especially when they lean to the mystery and charisma that only Satan can generate (i.e. towards darkness.) When[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] Elijah [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]contended with the priests of Baal, (1Kings 18,) bringing [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]fire[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] down from heaven in the contest,[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]defeating the Baal priests, slaying them and[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] winning the day for, and by Jehovah, he was not a popular man (1Kings 19.) [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]When our Lord did the required miracles (signs) (Isa. 29:18,) (Isa. 35:5-6,) (Matt. 11:4-5,) (Rom. 15:8,) they were derided by the Pharisees and priesthood, and rejected by them,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] because they adhered to the 'Wisdom Writings' of their teachers, instead of the 'Bibical Torah,' given by Jehovah to Moses! This was derided by John the Baptist, Jesus and Apostle Paul! [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] Here this beast (false prophet,) (2 Thess. 2:9,) (Rev. 16:13) does "great wonders," and is accepted, instantly.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](b)[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt] Deceit is Satan's main method (Rev. 20:3,) (Rev. 20:8,) and with humans it started in the Garden of Eden with Eve.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](c) [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]"Image;"[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt] Almighty God expressly forbade Israel to make any image for worship (Lev. 26:1,) [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]in that command, God states that He is their God (Jehovah.) In John's Gospel (4:23-24,) the mind of the Father is revealed, requiring only [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]"worship in spirit and in truth."[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt] Stating clearly that [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]He is "Spirit[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]," [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]and [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]requiring only sincere from the heart worship, as opposed to ritual and ceremony.[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt] The Enemy therefore, through the second beast requires the opposite, i.e. image, ritual and ceremony, (reminiscent of the Roman Church,) so as to maximise idolatry and worship of Satan.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]V.15 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]And (a)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]it was given to him[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] to give (b)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]life unto the image of the beast,[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] in order that the image of the beast should (b)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]speak,[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast be (b)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]killed.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt](a) [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]"It was given him;" [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]this phrase occurs also in Vs. 5 and 7. The Greek (didomo) for "given," (Str. no. 1325,) has a wide definition, among which are; "to give, bestow, to bring forth, to deliver up, to grant, to minister, to have power, etc." The A.V. renders it, "he had power;" the Interlinear, "it was given to it;" the Companion Bible corrects the A.V. text to, "it was given him;" J.N. Darby "it was given to it;" the Revised Standard, "it was allowed." The obvious question is who is giving this power to the 2nd beast (like a lamb,) which of course can only be answered, by the great Enemy Satan (2 Thess. 2:9-10.) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]However, we know from God's Word that all life is of Him (Job 1:21,) (Job 33:4,) (Ecc. 12:7,) (Isa. 37:16,) (Isa. 40:13,) (Isa. 44:6,) (Jer. 10:12,) (Heb. 3:4,) so that the ultimate source of the power is Almighty God, as He allows Satan to do his worst for a very specific reason, shown in Rev. 20:11-12. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Part of Jehovah's reasons are discussed in Chapter 12:V4, V.5, V12, and elsewhere.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](b) This religious figure is "given," the power to put "life" into the image, causing it to speak, and be worshipped. The degree of power that will then reside with this 2nd beast is expressed in the ultimate earthly sanction; [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]physical death. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]For that to be possible, a very high level of physical and mental control will be established on earth (see note at the beginning of Chapter 9) over the population.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]V.16 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]And he caused all, small and great, rich and poor, free and bond servant, to be [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt](a)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]marked on[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]the right hand, or on the forehead:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]V.17[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]So that no one may[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] (b)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]buy or sell, except those with the [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt](c)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]mark, or the[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt](c)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]name of the beast, or the [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt](c)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]number representing his[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]name.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt](a) At the time the Holy Spirit penned these words via. John on Patmos, the world (then known) was a much smaller place than now. However, with modern communications and travel speeds some would say that in fact it is smaller in the sense of actions etc. Many commentators on Scripture cannot agree on who is marked, and many prefer to say [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Israel only[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] is involved. It is true that the meaning can seem ambiguous, but it is the opinion of the writers that possibly all peoples of the world are involved, where Jews of the Diaspora are living, but that the Jews are the primary target.[/SIZE] There are a number of compelling reasons for this conclusion. The debate hinges for some on the simple Greek translation of the word for "earth," (Ge) as in V.8 and in many places. The definition for (Str. 1093,) is wider than the Comp (App. 129:4,) but both generally agree. Verse 7 in this case supports the view of world-wide application, i.e. "over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations." [SIZE=12pt]The fact is that there are many more Jews still dispersed throughout the world than in Israel, its present borders could not hold them! The present population of Israel is probably less than that of New York alone! All the Jews outside the focal point (Israel) of these future events will be affected and involved, because Antichrist will be seeking them out. That is the reason that our Lord is so emphatic in His statement regarding [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]"His brethren," in Matt. 25:40[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt](see Matt. 25: 31-46,) and our Lord's comments and actions are internationally focused as is clear from His words in Matt. 25. This fact augers for the same emphasis in V 17 statement.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]God has sealed people in the forehead, prior to great trouble in the past, (Ezk. 9:4) (Rev. 7:3.) This marking by Satan is the anti-thesis, and is his promise of protection to his people.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]Summary: One of the possibilities of the "marking," of the Jews of Israel in and around Jerusalem, and also of the Diaspora spread around the world, is that in this case both "land" and "world" are intended. The focus in Revelation is "overcoming," but also the witness and fidelity to Christ as Messiah and Saviour. Not many Jews will refuse the "Mark" because of Christ, but because of their "Orthodox (Pharisaic) beliefs," and because the beast is demanding worship,V.15. These may well be the ones who "look on Him who they pierced," if they are of the[/SIZE] "Preserved Remnant". The fact of our Lord's emphasis on the judgement of the Gentile nations on "how did you treat my brethren?" (Matt.25:32-46,) obviously indicates the Gentiles who are sympathetic or not to the Jews world-wide during "Jacob's Trouble" period, and it is quite possible that Satan's tyranny (although focused on the Jews of Israel,) may extend to those who support the Jews. His power will be such at that time, that he will not be stopped by the rulers in individual countries from persecuting Gentile sympathisers, as the rulers of each nation will be in sympathy with his anti-Jewish actions, and will chime with the world-wide anti-Semitic atmosphere. This tentative comment may well be supported by the reference in Revelation 7:9-17, where the great multitude of people of all nations are shown to have come out of "the great Tribulation," and have washed their robes in the "blood of the Lamb." This latter comment if fact, supports the idea that the Lord's Body has been taken by that time!

[SIZE=12pt](b) So the worshippers of this future Antichrist figure, are also marked to allow permit to "buy and sell," (trade etc.,) which will be strictly controlled, making life for those outside the favour of this Satanic system very hard. It has to be remembered that this state of affairs is only [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]3½ years in duration,[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]however most people will not know this,[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]and they will be controlled to such an extent that such information the Bible holds will not be easily available and in any case will not be understood, [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]hence the special Holy Spirit upholding of the groups mentioned in the early chapters.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](c) "Mark, name, or number;" these terrible symbols, will denote more than just permit, (to trade etc.,) but will also denote ownership! Satan will own these individuals in the same way, and to the same degree as the heavenly beings that are his. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Regarding the angels of heaven [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]that followed and belong to Satan, according to Rev. 5:11, the original Hebrew words mean "countless numbers," this means that as one third of heaven's angels that followed Satan cannot be numbered (by humans,) but the number almost certainly will be much larger than the human population that are marked. In the year 1999, the population of earth reached 6,000,000,000 (6 billion,) this number given by the U.N. If current projections are correct, by 2020 approx. 20 billion people may inhabit the planet (projections vary.) (In 2014, the number is just under 7.5 billion).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt] Numbers of people will be large, but compared with heaven's population the numbers are probably small. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]It is worth reiterating here the reason Satan will work so hard against Israel; his purpose is to annihilate Israel. [/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]If he were to succeed, the promises to Abraham by Jehovah would be null and[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]void, as Jehovah has promised that Israel will never cease to be a nation (Jer. 31:35-37) [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]and Satan [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]would become ruler of the earth and will have successfully challenged Almighty God![/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt] He will use all natural and supernatural means at his disposal, including the earth's population,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] of which he needs as many as he can get, [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]as the human race is the [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]main target [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]after his success in heaven![/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]Therefore his methods are subtly tailored to try to entrap as many of the unwary as possible, to augment his success in heaven! As seen above, Satan has under his control countless angels, and also humans who are marked and [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]who worship him openly,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] to be able to live and trade during his power period on earth! Satan's people however have been converting to him since the flood, and prior to that since Eden. His methods are varied, some easy to see such as open pagan worship in its multitude of forms. However in these times, the methods blend into the credible, so that many so-called "christian" groups say they have the "truth," [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]but in reality are a perverted form of "christianity."[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]The many variations of these make listing impossible, but what they have in common is dominant leadership, which after a "honeymoon" period, demands that the individual's mind, will, actions, and often substance, come under their control! [/SIZE]Their teachings they demand, are the ONLY ones which are true! They will not allow open questioning of their teaching, or their interpretation of the Bible, (sometimes their own version,) their activities or their leadership, etc.! They demand mindless obedience. The Jehovah Witnesses are an obvious fit to the above, but also Charismatics, Pentecostals, Roman Church, The New Age Movement, and some parts of the Ecumenical Movement, etc. In these groups and their ilk, many humans are being trapped, and they will not question their controllers for fear of loss of favour and group! If they do not, they are in danger of not having the Truth, and being deceived.

[SIZE=12pt]The most precious organ the Almighty gives us is our brain,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] it should be abdicated to nobody! Bible revering Christian groups will never demand these things, and the best will post their list of Bible beliefs in a prominent position, so that a person knows what they are subscribing to before they join! They are also Christ centred in Truth, and are not deceived by the many different "christs" that our Lord warned about (Matt. 24:24, Mark 13:22 .)[/SIZE]


[SIZE=14pt]V.18[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Here is (a)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]wisdom.[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] Let him that hath (a)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]understanding [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]count the number of the beast: for it is the number [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]of a [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt](b)[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]man; [/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] and his number is (b)Six hundred threescore and six.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt](a) Not surprisingly this verse is the most widely known verse of Revelation, by many types of groups worldwide including those of the Enemy. "Wisdom, understanding;" the Greek (Sunesis = wisdom) renders; insight, understanding, capacity to comprehend, use of thought. These qualities are prerequisite to the task.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](b) Here the beast equated to [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]a "man," and his "number," 666. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Much has been written on this subject, and will continue to be so. It is almost certain that [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]the identity of the man will not be known until the[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]time of the[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] events.[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] However, the principle of the calculation are already well understood. In ancient times letters of the alphabet served as numbers, and many and various devices ensued, i.e. riddles etc. Various attempts at naming 666 in the early church were attempted including Nero Caesar, by Gematria (substitution of numbers by letters of Hebrew alphabet.) In this process the 22 symbols of the Hebrew alphabet are numbered. The first ten, from 1-10. The next 8, from 20 - 90 in intervals of ten. The final 4 are 100, 200, 300 & 400. If any language can lay claim to valid use by Gematria, it is the original Hebrew. This is because the language in its original form was given by Almighty God to His people. Many will cry against that statement, but they are the same people who cannot understand the Holy Scriptures. The Bible cannot be understood unless a person:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]1) Reveres God, and sincerely studies His Word, (Isa. 29:11-13.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]2) Must want to know His Word, (Psm. 119:162), and rejoice in it.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]3) Must labour (work at) the Word, as a task (which becomes joyful) (2 Tim. 2:15.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]The statement is made by the Holy Spirit in His Word that "it is perfect," (Psm. 12:6,) "and purified 7 times." For such a statement to be made by Almighty God, means He is using the perfect language (Hebrew) to convey His message. It is a fact that Daniel 2:4 to 7:28 is written in Aramaic/Chaldee, but that is to differentiate the Gentile historic section, and to compare it to the Jewish prophetic section (in Hebrew) regarding "the time of the end," (Comp. page[/SIZE] 1178.) The fact that the New Testament is in Greek, means the Holy Spirit has refined the use for His purpose, and that therefore the Greek possibly can be used also for Gematria. [SIZE=12pt]However; when the "time of the end," is reached, Hebrew and Greek Gematria can be cross checked! [/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]There has been recently a translation from Aramaic of the "Pshitta," which is reputed to have been held by the "Eastern church," unsullied by translation to "Western languages." This was/is being undertaken by an ancient languages scholar in the USA, and makes interesting reading. It can be used for comparison; See: [/SIZE] Ancient Aramaic Manuscripts, Pshitta O and A:[SIZE=medium] (Separate study.)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The argument is presented by some scholars, that there are many errors in Scripture. By others that many parts are written after prophetic fulfilment. These are inevitable attacks. Those who are sincere go on to study the Word [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]with their minds and hearts stayed on Christ / Jehovah God,[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]and come to realise that the so called errors are Satanically inspired and conspired over the centuries, by human and demonic interference.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Where the Bible uses numbers therefore it is extremely important, and careful note must be taken as to meaning. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]It is noteworthy that SSS = 666 in this method[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt],[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] which forms the symbol of Isis, which derived from Egypt; which derived from Babylon; [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]and which the Roman church adopted; (Isis and Horus)[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt](mother and child,) so as not to anger the Roman pagans. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]This has led to the major error/perversion in the Roman[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]church of "Maryology," (worship of Mary,) as intercessor for sinners to God,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] removing at a stroke the unique work of our Lord and Saviour on the cross.[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt] All of which together with the priestly confessional system totally undermines [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]the truth of access to God through[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]Christ our Lord (Acts 4:12.)[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] SSS is also the secret symbol of the[/SIZE] [SIZE=13.5pt]"Old Mysteries[/SIZE]," [SIZE=12pt]all of which emanate from ancient Babylon. They spread across the world, to China and the Far East via. India; to Europe via. Egypt, and Greece; to South America via. the mid. - Atlantic islands. These carriers are now known by genetic testing to be Iberian, the same tests show Siberian and Polynesian genetics in the north and south American Indians, which according to archaeological dating is many thousands of years before Columbus! Also, in South America there is evidence of an African type "Civilisation," now apparently extinct which flourished thousands of years ago. The remaining ruins show prolific Negroid facial features! Latterly to the so called "new world countries," by emigration. In the case of Europe, the Greek teachings of Plato, Socrates and others entered the Christendom teachings, and have led to many errors now taught in official theology.[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]Satan heads up all of these false ideas and religions, and in his final attempt on earth, will bring all of the above into play, as he captures the hearts and minds of people in each country.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]666 was the secret symbol [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]of the ancient pagan mysteries connected with the worship of the Devil,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] and the number has some surprising meanings already known. For example, the Romans only used six of their letters as numbers i.e. D,C,L,X,V,I. As shown below they total 666![/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt] D = 500) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] C = 100) 600[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] L = 50) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] X = 10) 60[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] V = 5) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] I = 1) 6 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] 666[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]When using the Greek language for Gematria, 666 becomes SSS, the ancient mysteries symbol, as S = 6. A special form of S was used called "STIGMA," which means [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]MARK, by branding!! [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] This was used on cattle, slaves, soldiers etc., by those that owned them. Some remarkable historic facts are: (Numbers in Scripture: Dr. E.W. Bullinger.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]1) The duration of the old Assyrian Empire, 666 years.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]2) Jerusalem trodden down by Rome 666 years.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]3) Goliath was 6 cubits tall, had 6 pieces of armour, his spear 600 shekels of iron (1 Sam. 17:4-7,) (Goliath was considered Nephilim!)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]4) Nebuchadnezzar's "image," 60 cubits tall, 6 cubits broad (Dan. 3:1,) and was worshipped when music played on 6 specific instruments.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]5) 666 talents of gold brought to Solomon in a year (1 Kings 10:14.)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The number of man in Scripture is 6,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] and where it is at its maximum concentration is 666! (As 3 in Scripture denotes completeness.) Man has ruled the world disastrously since Adam. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] When the 666[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]is finished, God's rule on earth begins, and lasts 1000 years,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] prior to the new heaven and earth (Rev. 21:1.) [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] The rule on earth will have Christ Jesus at the focal point of power and rule (Jerusalem,) (Zech.) etc. There is much that can be said about the number[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]888,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] but put simply it is the number of the name of Jesus in Greek Gematria.[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] The Hebrew (SH'MONEH,) from the root (SHAH'MEYN,) "to make fat," "cover with fat," "to super abound," is the Hebrew number 8 by Gematria. It also represents in Scripture, "resurrection," "regeneration," "a new beginning or commencement!" Hence the perfect completeness (3) of 8 = 888 = Jesus Christ in Millennial. The number 8 permeates the whole of Scripture, which speaks of CHRIST![/SIZE]
From Bible Gazer:

3rd Beast
Revelation 17:4
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Revelation 17:8-11
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.


From Floyd: see Chapter 17 for the 3rd beast: www.revelationsmessage.co.uk
 

shturt678

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Bible_Gazer said:
How do some of you believe on the three different beasts ? Since some believe Revelation is all future or before 70AD

1st Beast
Revelation 13:1-2
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

2nd Beast
Revelation 13:11
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

3rd Beast
Revelation 17:4
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Revelation 17:8-11
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.


You have three different places that the beasts come from. - sea, earth, and bottomless pit

You have:
1st beast- with ten horns
2nd beast- two horns
3rd beast -10 horns, no crowns, with a woman sitting on it.

Then it mention in several place as if the two beasts are working together = "The Beast and the Image of the Beast"

Their Time limit :
1st beast -42 months
2n beast -_? short space ?
3rd beast- 1 hour

Their powers:
1st beast - from the dragon
2n beast - power from the first beast
3rd beast - Ten Kings

The Woman ruled over the Ten kings
Revelation 17:18
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

So can you explain
or
do you see
Three Beast with three different works at the same time ?
Thank you for caring!

You really set up a sound and lucid core base for us to reply to, that is, good job! Brother Floyd and I agree to disagree of course and upon my return from the hospital ministry this mornin' will give a response regarding the 3rd beast.

Old Jack,
 

Floyd

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You really set up a sound and lucid core base for us to reply to, that is, good job! Brother Floyd and I agree to disagree of course and upon my return from the hospital ministry this mornin' will give a response regarding the 3rd beast.

Old Jack,


I gave you all 22 chapters of Rev. weeks ago.
In hours you came back and said you had read it!
I questioned you on that, but you insisted you had read it!
As it took me months to research and write ; and was/is the product of 50 years of prayerful study; I doubted you then, and now, as you seem to have only just read this one chapter, as a first time?
I have noticed you resist all that is given you!
Do you resist the Lord's Salvation Love also; or it just prophecy we differ on?
What church gives you such aberrant teachings which you hold?
When I visited Hawaii on numerous occasions in the last 35 years; I noticed that the Roman church is strong there, but I know they don't teach the things you espouse.
What is your group/church ?
Floyd.
 
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shturt678

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Floyd said:
I gave you all 22 chapters of Rev. weeks ago.
In hours you came back and said you had read it!
I questioned you on that, but you insisted you had read it!
As it took me months to research and write ; and was/is the product of 50 years of prayerful study; I doubted you then, and now, as you seem to have only just read this one chapter, as a first time?
I have noticed you resist all that is given you!
Do you resist the Lord's Salvation Love also; or it just prophecy we differ on?
What church gives you such aberrant teachings which you hold?
When I visited Hawaii on numerous occasions in the last 35 years; I noticed that the Roman church is strong there, but I know they don't teach the things you espouse.
What is your group/church ?
Floyd.
Thank you again for your response my brother!

Hey, you're o.k. in my book, ie, we just got off to a bad start. I'm just of a lower paygrade pre-modern ELCA, very conservative confessional Lutheran (pre-union of 1930). I just bring from the so called aberrant commentary of Martin Chemnitz (1560 or so), sermons, to about 1900 with Mathias Loy where a lot of those works are in High German which Google can now translate for me where long ago was very difficult for me. I'll appropriate a summary from them collectively as follows (nothing from me except the last, ie, I'm just a dummey that brings their works forward for you and others to compare.

(1) The first wild beast (Rev.13:1-10) is the antichristian power.

(2) The second wild beast (Rev.13:11-18) is the antichristian propaganda.

(me) The so called third beast is the great whore which is the antichristian seductiveness.

Old Jack, just don't call me late for dinner.

btw I'm your brother thus am saved correct? Took a course in speed reading in about 59' and was already a pretty fast reader due to almost living in libraries long ago to keep my sanity. Appreciate all your scholarly work, and patience with me keeping in the forefront I'm of a very low paygrade sir.
 

Floyd

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shturt678 said:
Thank you again for your response my brother!

Hey, you're o.k. in my book, ie, we just got off to a bad start. I'm just of a lower paygrade pre-modern ELCA, very conservative confessional Lutheran (pre-union of 1930). I just bring from the so called aberrant commentary of Martin Chemnitz (1560 or so), sermons, to about 1900 with Mathias Loy where a lot of those works are in High German which Google can now translate for me where long ago was very difficult for me. I'll appropriate a summary from them collectively as follows (nothing from me except the last, ie, I'm just a dummey that brings their works forward for you and others to compare.

(1) The first wild beast (Rev.13:1-10) is the antichristian power.

(2) The second wild beast (Rev.13:11-18) is the antichristian propaganda.

(me) The so called third beast is the great whore which is the antichristian seductiveness.

Old Jack, just don't call me late for dinner.

btw I'm your brother thus am saved correct? Took a course in speed reading in about 59' and was already a pretty fast reader due to almost living in libraries long ago to keep my sanity. Appreciate all your scholarly work, and patience with me keeping in the forefront I'm of a very low paygrade sir.
OK Jack.
BTW, Chapter 18 given here, you should find of interest. Rev Chapter 18
Floyd.
 

shturt678

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Thank you again brother Floyd, and for Rev.18!

Rarely do I bump into Christians that care, and are serious about the Word the way you are, ie, recently, new to me - 30 years ago use to daily meet others at Macdonalds and etc. arguing over the Word. However with the few in the past that I did bump into that really cared, I brought them back to the meat and the potatoes of Rev./Matt.24/IIThess.2 being Rev.8:7-9:21. Then after bringing them back to Rev.8 & 9, next step was bringing back to Rev.1:1, "to show...he signified." After hashing this out for awhile then construe with IIThess.2:11, 12 resulting in those getting through Rev.18 (your chapter) are measured at Rev.11:1, ie, as you can see I don't take Revelation in a chronological way of thinking, but view the visions in sync.

IOW the long and the short of it is, I need to be measured at Rev.11:1 hourly till I pass on, and I am approaching 75 so my number will be up soon.

My end point, I'm a retired teacher (lower paygrade type) and you receive an A+ with 5 golden stars for caring where most don't today, Secondly you can begin to see where we must agree to disagree which is healthy as in this way others can base their conclusion seeing multiple views where normally they just see their denominational's view with their minister wearing nice cloths with an eloquent voice, and etc.

Good job!

Old Jack
 

Floyd

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shturt678 said:
Thank you again brother Floyd, and for Rev.18!

Rarely do I bump into Christians that care, and are serious about the Word the way you are, ie, recently, new to me - 30 years ago use to daily meet others at Macdonalds and etc. arguing over the Word. However with the few in the past that I did bump into that really cared, I brought them back to the meat and the potatoes of Rev./Matt.24/IIThess.2 being Rev.8:7-9:21. Then after bringing them back to Rev.8 & 9, next step was bringing back to Rev.1:1, "to show...he signified." After hashing this out for awhile then construe with IIThess.2:11, 12 resulting in those getting through Rev.18 (your chapter) are measured at Rev.11:1, ie, as you can see I don't take Revelation in a chronological way of thinking, but view the visions in sync.

IOW the long and the short of it is, I need to be measured at Rev.11:1 hourly till I pass on, and I am approaching 75 so my number will be up soon.

My end point, I'm a retired teacher (lower paygrade type) and you receive an A+ with 5 golden stars for caring where most don't today, Secondly you can begin to see where we must agree to disagree which is healthy as in this way others can base their conclusion seeing multiple views where normally they just see their denominational's view with their minister wearing nice cloths with an eloquent voice, and etc.

Good job!

Old Jack
I see your points Jack.
There is a chance that my wife and I will be in Hawaii later this year; if your" number is not up"; We can get together for coffee.
Floyd.
 

shturt678

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Floyd said:
I see your points Jack.
There is a chance that my wife and I will be in Hawaii later this year; if your" number is not up"; We can get together for coffee.
Floyd.
Amen!

I still teach basic courses on-line, Summer's N.T. Greek, Allen Rosses' Hebrew, and more, publicly to others thus just sent me an email when you arrive on the Big Island and I'll even treat you folks to more than coffee, ie, we're still going to spar thus let's put our personal feelings aside still getting together. [email protected]

Old, hard to get along with, Jack
 

Floyd

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shturt678 said:
Amen!

I still teach basic courses on-line, Summer's N.T. Greek, Allen Rosses' Hebrew, and more, publicly to others thus just sent me an email when you arrive on the Big Island and I'll even treat you folks to more than coffee, ie, we're still going to spar thus let's put our personal feelings aside still getting together. [email protected]

Old, hard to get along with, Jack
OK Jack, will do.
Floyd.
 

Bible_Gazer

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Thanks Floyd for all your inputs.
Lets figure you out what you are saying in short term.
You believe all three beasts its all future events.

The Beasts is all one setup ?
1.first beast - Political
2. 2nd beast - Religion
3. 3 beast - Civil power to the religious side of it

or

Are you saying 3 different beasts at the same time or different time ?
1. Political - sea beast
2. Religions - earth beast
3 Religion and Civil - pit beast

question:
Rev.13 Sea beast - is this the 7th head and Rev.17 the 8th head ?
Rev. 17 seem to make the 8th head related to the seventh head kingdom.
Rev. 17 also seem to make the seven mountains also represent the heads as kingdoms.
 

Floyd

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Bible_Gazer said:
Thanks Floyd for all your inputs.
Lets figure you out what you are saying in short term.
You believe all three beasts its all future events.

The Beasts is all one setup ?
1.first beast - Political
2. 2nd beast - Religion
3. 3 beast - Civil power to the religious side of it

or

Are you saying 3 different beasts at the same time or different time ?
1. Political - sea beast
2. Religions - earth beast
3 Religion and Civil - pit beast

question:
Rev.13 Sea beast - is this the 7th head and Rev.17 the 8th head ?
Rev. 17 seem to make the 8th head related to the seventh head kingdom.
Rev. 17 also seem to make the seven mountains also represent the heads as kingdoms.

Hello Bible Gazer;
IMO, the first two of Rev.13, are out of the local peoples; the toes of Dan.2; 10 nations of minor significance "sea"; the first morphing into the second; which is religious.
Again IMO; the third in 17; is linked to "mystery Babylon", and also linked to the first two.
Sounds vague I know; but at present it's the best I can see.
I feel strongly about Babylon,as you will see from Rev Chapter 18
Floyd.
 

shturt678

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Thank you folks for caring!

Always did favor the 'strange' history of the "Whore," Rev.17:8, "....wild beast...was and is not and is about to come up out of the abyss..." Dotting our eyes and crossing our tees, in Rev.13:3, 12 the beast received a deathblow in one of its seven heads, and yet recovered and cause the whole world's admiration and let's say exclamation because of the fact that no one could defeat the beast in battle. My subpoint: In connection with Rev.13:3, 4 that the EXALTATION OF CHRIST delivered this deathblow to the beast, the antichristian power, and crushed it completely; yet the antichristian power was healed, recovered by the help of the dragon, Satan (Rev.12:9), who had given all his power, his throne, and authority, the beast (Rev.13:2).

End point: This beast which carries the woman and is identified as being the one mentioned in Rev.13:1 by having 7 heads and 10 horns, "was and is not and is about to come up out of the abyss - - was and is not and shall be present." "Is not" = when it received its death stroke through Christ's exaltation (Rev.13:3); "is about to come up" and "shall be present" = its recovery.

We have the beast's first coming, Rev.13:1 and now we have its second coming, astounding?

Old Jack just kicking things around with you good folks
 

Bible_Gazer

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Lets talk about the crowns for thoughts.
Rev.11 The Dragon(the Devil) has his crown on the 7 heads
Rev.13 The crowns are on the Ten horns

Rev.17 Maybe the Woman is the Crown.
a woman can be refer to as a crown
Proverbs 12:4
4 A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones.

Seem like the crown is referring to what section of power is being used at a certain time.
I don't think the heads were all functioning at the same time, but that was the Devil's civil power in the past at different times.
five had fallen when John wrote Revelation.

any other thoughts on the crowns ?
 

Floyd

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Bible_Gazer said:
Lets talk about the crowns for thoughts.
Rev.11 The Dragon(the Devil) has his crown on the 7 heads
Rev.13 The crowns are on the Ten horns

Rev.17 Maybe the Woman is the Crown.
a woman can be refer to as a crown
Proverbs 12:4
4 A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones.

Seem like the crown is referring to what section of power is being used at a certain time.
I don't think the heads were all functioning at the same time, but that was the Devil's civil power in the past at different times.
five had fallen when John wrote Revelation.

any other thoughts on the crowns ?
IMO; always refers to "powers" in Scripture.
Floyd.
 

Bible_Gazer

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In Daniel 2 and 7 deals with the 4 major kingdom ruling over Israel.

The last one is to be the Iron kingdom also being the 4th dreadful beast.

Then it get destroyed.

Then God's kingdom is raised up into a great mountain and never to be ruled over by any Gentiles or worldly power again.

So the last beasts 1 or 2 or 3 is in the Iron kingdom family - right ??
or one of them could be the clay part, but still part of the dreadful beast.
 

DaDad

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Hi Bible_Gazer,

Bible_Gazer said:
In Daniel 2 and 7 deals with the 4 major kingdom ruling over Israel.
The Book of Daniel is written to the Nations. Daniel is NOT called to prophesy to the Jews, thus in Daniel Chapter 9 he must don the mantle of Jeremiah to address his kinsmen. All other Prophetic Chapters and interactions/events are to the NATIONS.

As such one should expect to find the FIVE world empires as defined in 2:45, and as conforms with World History.



To presume otherwise would not be wise.

With Best Regards,
DD
 

shturt678

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Bible_Gazer said:
In Daniel 2 and 7 deals with the 4 major kingdom ruling over Israel.

The last one is to be the Iron kingdom also being the 4th dreadful beast.

Then it get destroyed.

Then God's kingdom is raised up into a great mountain and never to be ruled over by any Gentiles or worldly power again.
Thank you again for caring!

Perfect! So far.

Soli Deo Gloria



So the last beasts 1 or 2 or 3 is in the Iron kingdom family - right ??
or one of them could be the clay part, but still part of the dreadful beast.
Not so perfect,

Old Jack
 

DaDad

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Floyd said:
You really set up a sound and lucid core base for us to reply to, that is, good job! Brother Floyd and I agree to disagree of course and upon my return from the hospital ministry this mornin' will give a response regarding the 3rd beast.

Old Jack,


I gave you all 22 chapters of Rev. weeks ago.
In hours you came back and said you had read it!
I questioned you on that, but you insisted you had read it!
As it took me months to research and write ; and was/is the product of 50 years of prayerful study; I doubted you then, and now, as you seem to have only just read this one chapter, as a first time?
I have noticed you resist all that is given you!
...
Floyd.
Hi Floyd,

I would like to ask you some questions regarding Chapters 12, 13, & 17. Would you be willing to open a new Topic which we can go through some of the text and history?


With Best Regards,
DD