The Trinity definition

[Mattathias]

So, the Father is the one Kurios...

No.

…the Son is the one Kurios…

Yes.

…how is the Son then not the Father?

See above.

Try again. Next time take into account the scriptures in the following post (and what I say by them):

True Trinity.

I still would have disagreed with you when I was a trinitarian (of the HOT variety).

We all use the same scriptures.

 

[justbyfaith]

No.

You deny that the Father is the Lord of heaven and earth then?

Are you going to, next, take scissors and cut out Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21 from your Bibles? (consider the consequences for such a thing in Revelation 22:19!)

 

[justbyfaith]

Thanks. I was raised KJVO. (A very kind and patient trinitarian (of the HOT variety) helped me to abandon that position.)

That happened to me once also.

My walk with Christ went downhill from there, until I returned to the kjv as my daily reading habit.

 

[justbyfaith]

I still would have disagreed with you when I was a trinitarian (of the HOT variety).

We all use the same scriptures.

Didn't even read the post, I take it.

 

[Mattathias]

You deny that the Father is the Lord of heaven and earth then?

No.

 

[Mattathias]

Didn't even read the post, I take it.

I read it.

 

[justbyfaith]

I read it.

Well, if you don't agree with me by now, there is some kind of disconnect that is keeping you from understanding the truth; perhaps what is written in 1 Corinthians 2:14.

 

[jaybird]

There is nothing that God can't do (Luke 1:37).

i dont doubt that but that does not prove anything, you cant just pull something out of thin air, Jesus is a giant thunderbird, and when people question it say, the Lord can do anything.

 

[Mattathias]

Well, if you don't agree with me by now, there is some kind of disconnect that is keeping you from understanding the truth; perhaps what is written in 1 Corinthians 2:14.

I have a friend who calls that argument “Old Thumper”.

 

[justbyfaith]

I have a friend who calls that argument “Old Thumper”.

I like that.

 

[jaybird]

another big issue with the trinity is it took so long to figure it out. in the mid 500s they are still calling church councils to adjust this doctrine, thats almost 600 years after Jesus and they still can not get it right. the doctrine conflicts with scripture so in order to fix these problems they just keep making adjustments, but every adjustment seems to cause even more problems. its like opening a really big can of worms.

 

[jaybird]

I have a friend who calls that argument “Old Thumper”.

i had a dog called thumper. best three legged coon dog in the county!

 

[justbyfaith]

i dont doubt that but that does not prove anything, you cant just pull something out of thin air, Jesus is a giant thunderbird, and when people question it say, the Lord can do anything.

Except that the concept that Jesus is 100% God and 100% Man in the hypostatic union is sound doctrine....the idea that Jesus is a thunderbird isn't.

 

[justbyfaith]

another big issue with the trinity is it took so long to figure it out. in the mid 500s they are still calling church councils to adjust this doctrine, thats almost 600 years after Jesus and they still can not get it right. the doctrine conflicts with scripture so in order to fix these problems they just keep making adjustments, but every adjustment seems to cause even more problems. its like opening a really big can of worms.

There are situations where it does indeed take time to hash out all of the arguments concerning an issue.

The fact that it is time-tested ought to tell you something...that whatever kinks may be in the doctrine will continue to be removed as time continues to tick away...and that after 2,000 years, it is very likely that most if not all of them have been removed.

 

[jaybird]

Except that the concept that Jesus is 100% God and 100% Man in the hypostatic union is sound doctrine....the idea that Jesus is a thunderbird isn't.

sure its sound doctrine, anything is possible with the Lord.

 

[jaybird]

There are situations where it does indeed take time to hash out all of the arguments concerning an issue.

The fact that it is time-tested ought to tell you something...that whatever kinks may be in the doctrine will continue to be removed as time continues to tick away...and that after 2,000 years, it is very likely that most if not all of them have been removed.

actually what we see is the exact opposite. more and more people are jumping ship. 500 years back you were burned alive, 300 yrs back you could lose your job and reputation, today through democracy we have religious freedom. and without the threat of persecution this doctrine is very difficult to get people to accept because you have to rely on scripture and scripture does not support it.

 

[justbyfaith]

sure its sound doctrine, anything is possible with the Lord.

That's right. It is sound doctrine; and Luke 1:37 that substantiates it is sound doctrine also.

actually what we see is the exact opposite. more and more people are jumping ship. 500 years back you were burned alive, 300 yrs back you could lose your job and reputation, today through democracy we have religious freedom. and without the threat of persecution this doctrine is very difficult to get people to accept because you have to rely on scripture and scripture does not support it.

It does support it. My thread on the True Trinity is an example of sound preaching on the subject.

True Trinity.

(especially posts #1-#6).

 

[Mattathias]

Well, if you don't agree with me by now, there is some kind of disconnect that is keeping you from understanding the truth; perhaps what is written in 1 Corinthians 2:14.

I think you’re overlooking the beautiful simplicity of the biblical story. You’re making God more complex than he is. Jesus is a human person. He’s a Jew. He himself has a God, and he himself isn’t him. There’s only one true God, this Jewish man’s God, the Father. Everything else is idolatry.

This Jewish man is the Messiah, the anointed one, whom God promised to raise up and send to rescue mankind.

* Now I unleash “Old Thumper” on you *

If you don’t agree with me then there is some kind of disconnect that is keeping you from understanding the truth; perhaps what is written in 1 Corinthians 2:14.

What affect did “Old Thumper” have on you?

 

[ChristisGod]

I think you’re overlooking the beautiful simplicity of the biblical story. You’re making God more complex than he is. Jesus is a human person. He’s a Jew. He himself has a God, and he himself isn’t him. There’s only one true God, this Jewish man’s God, the Father. Everything else is idolatry.

This Jewish man is the Messiah, the anointed one, whom God promised to raise up and send to rescue mankind.

* Now I unleash “Old Thumper” on you *

If you don’t agree with me then there is some kind of disconnect that is keeping you from understanding the truth; perhaps what is written in 1 Corinthians 2:14.

What affect did “Old Thumper” have on you?

I think you will like this as I see some similarities between us. I've been debating unitarians for the past 40 years and I can argue against the Trinity better than the majority of them can and I'm a trinitarian. I see you can argue the Trinity better than most who claim to be trinitarians but you are now a unitarian. I love irony.

Just an observation FWIW.

 

[101G]

I’ve read Isaiah 9:6. The Son is called “the everlasting Father,” but what does the title mean? You say it means that the Son is the Father. I (and others, of course) say it means that the Son is the father of the age to come.

Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
here the definite article is used of the the "Son", now it's either the same one person or you have two Gods.

your choice.

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"