Neither the Jews,Muslims or many Christians know the Trinity is mentioned in the OT and we have a triune God - any comments - winc
The Trinity in the OT
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goodshepard55
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Of course most people that read the Word know this winc....In Genesis, in Job and in John the trinity is spoken of....
The very first chapter of the bible.
God the Father
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
The Spirit of God
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Jesus proceeded forth and came from God. Jesus, the light of the world.
Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
It isn't until verse 14 that the sun and the moon were created, so the world had light before the sun and the moon.
Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Colossians 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
God the Father
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
The Spirit of God
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Jesus proceeded forth and came from God. Jesus, the light of the world.
Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
It isn't until verse 14 that the sun and the moon were created, so the world had light before the sun and the moon.
Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Colossians 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Well your assertion is wrong. Many Jews, Hebrews and Christians KNOW the concept of the Trinity from Gen 1:1...the Hebrew word for God there is "Elohim" which is the plural word for GOD. As God made us in His image and we are tripartite beings, it is clear that God is tripartite also. God says in v26, "Let US make man in our image, in our likeness" and so He did. The US here is the Trinity.
As far as Muslims is concerned I would have to deduce that they accept Genesis as Allah's Word so more than likely many of them would know this, whether they accept this as truth or not is another matter.
I take the negative stance. In one of my conversations, the other person was so good as to mention that the Gospel is simple. And that's what I want to pull up today. I get tired of hearing about the Trinity for the simple reason: Man takes the Trinity, based on a man-made creed, forces the Bible to fit it, whereas man should be starting with the Bible and making himself fit it. The Bible NEVER openly declares three persons. It NEVER mentions the Trinity, IT NEVER mentions God the Son. It never mentions anything about co-equality. How much assumption are we going to try to make? The Scripture makes one VERY clear statement: God is ONE. There is none other beside him. That should be where we start. God is ONE. A LITERAL one. For my point-by-point refutation of the verses in 'support' of the Trinity, see previous quote in bold.
Please, re-consider the foundation upon which the Trinity stands. Because it isn't the Bible. The simple view that God is ONE literally, just like the Muslims and Jews believe, is not only Scripturally sound, but can fit into any of Trinity's 'support passages.'
If you really think the Trinity is the answer, how do you explain this verse?
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
(Talk about black and white, Jehovah our Elohim is ONE Jehovah! There aren't two Jehovahs, not three, only ONE! Praise his name!)
How about this one?
Psa 89:18 For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.
(This verse is even more incredible when you pair it with 1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; How's that? If Jesus is the KING of kings, then he either must BE the Holy One of Israel, or he is superior TO the Holy One of Israel. I would stake my life on the former.)
Elohim is used for Ashteroth as well. Was she a triune goddess?!
This is my favorite verse on this topic:
Jdg 6:31 And Joash said unto all that stood against him, Will ye plead for Baal? will ye save him? he that will plead for him, let him be put to death whilst it is yet morning: if he be a god (elohim), let him plead for himself, because one hath cast down his altar.
Was Baal a triune god? I think not. It was a term used as reverence and majesty!
Elohim means plural. Plural what?????? That's the real question. Elohim does NOT support the Trinity.
As for 'let us make man . . . .", I have discussed this so much I'm tired of having to type it out.
. So I'll just give one point:
I get up tomorrow morning, and while dressing for cycling to work, I say to myself, "Let's (contraction of 'Let us') go and get 'em!" Am I talking to another subdivision inside me? someone else? NO! I'm talking to myself! We use the exact same language when we talk to ourselves. Does it mean that we have a trinity of ourselves? three distinct substances of us who make decisions? Hardly.
Now LET'S go watch a movie
I take the negative stance. In one of my conversations, the other person was so good as to mention that the Gospel is simple. And that's what I want to pull up today. I get tired of hearing about the Trinity for the simple reason: Man takes the Trinity, based on a man-made creed, forces the Bible to fit it, whereas man should be starting with the Bible and making himself fit it. The Bible NEVER openly declares three persons. It NEVER mentions the Trinity, IT NEVER mentions God the Son. It never mentions anything about co-equality. How much assumption are we going to try to make? The Scripture makes one VERY clear statement: God is ONE. There is none other beside him. That should be where we start. God is ONE. A LITERAL one. For my point-by-point refutation of the verses in 'support' of the Trinity, see previous quote in bold.
Please, re-consider the foundation upon which the Trinity stands. Because it isn't the Bible. The simple view that God is ONE literally, just like the Muslims and Jews believe, is not only Scripturally sound, but can fit into any of Trinity's 'support passages.'
If you really think the Trinity is the answer, how do you explain this verse?
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
(Talk about black and white, Jehovah our Elohim is ONE Jehovah! There aren't two Jehovahs, not three, only ONE! Praise his name!)
How about this one?
Psa 89:18 For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.
(This verse is even more incredible when you pair it with 1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; How's that? If Jesus is the KING of kings, then he either must BE the Holy One of Israel, or he is superior TO the Holy One of Israel. I would stake my life on the former.)
Elohim is used for Ashteroth as well. Was she a triune goddess?!
This is my favorite verse on this topic:
Jdg 6:31 And Joash said unto all that stood against him, Will ye plead for Baal? will ye save him? he that will plead for him, let him be put to death whilst it is yet morning: if he be a god (elohim), let him plead for himself, because one hath cast down his altar.
Was Baal a triune god? I think not. It was a term used as reverence and majesty!
Elohim means plural. Plural what?????? That's the real question. Elohim does NOT support the Trinity.
As for 'let us make man . . . .", I have discussed this so much I'm tired of having to type it out.
So I'll just give one point:
I get up tomorrow morning, and while dressing for cycling to work, I say to myself, "Let's (contraction of 'Let us') go and get 'em!" Am I talking to another subdivision inside me? someone else? NO! I'm talking to myself! We use the exact same language when we talk to ourselves. Does it mean that we have a trinity of ourselves? three distinct substances of us who make decisions? Hardly.
Now LET'S go watch a movie
just goes to prove everyone has missed it - see the rendezvous at Mamre[Gen.18] - notice Abraham adored all three as God,addressed all three as one and was addressed by all three as one - winc
Lol. No answer to my questions? Please!
I'll answer your question, because it doesn't pose anything at all. Two of them were angels, one of them was the Lord (this is from memory, so don't quote it verbatim). Abraham wouldn't have been aware at first that they were angels. He merely saw them and entertained them as was the custom of the day.
Anyway, for some logical thinking . . . . adored all three as God? I see Abraham address them with a title of reverance. Abraham has a humble man. Even with his great wealth and prestige, he still respected other people, even complete strangers. Addressed all three as one or addressed the one who was chief? Don't make assumptions! It's very dangerous. Too many people read between the lines where there ain't nothing at all. Was addressed by all three as one has completely lost me. Of course Abraham was one person!
Now can we actually have some straightforward answers to the verse I posted?
Lol. No answer to my questions? Please!
I'll answer your question, because it doesn't pose anything at all. Two of them were angels, one of them was the Lord (this is from memory, so don't quote it verbatim). Abraham wouldn't have been aware at first that they were angels. He merely saw them and entertained them as was the custom of the day.
Anyway, for some logical thinking . . . . adored all three as God? I see Abraham address them with a title of reverance. Abraham has a humble man. Even with his great wealth and prestige, he still respected other people, even complete strangers. Addressed all three as one or addressed the one who was chief? Don't make assumptions! It's very dangerous. Too many people read between the lines where there ain't nothing at all. Was addressed by all three as one has completely lost me. Of course Abraham was one person!
Now can we actually have some straightforward answers to the verse I posted?
Groundzero,
You are all over the place. You post two scriptures and a couple of definitions from different belief systems, and then take the stance that you are right above God's word.
There are hundreds of passages that show who Jesus is throughout the bible. If you haven't gotten that understanding no sense in debating it with you.
I have no interest in false religions, so you're on your own in considering those things.
Well forgive me for trying to make head and tail of your mess. If I recall, we are looking to find the Trinity in the OT.... I don't think you're going to find it, other than the Holy ONE of Israel because that's all there was and ever will be.
Elohim is used for Ashteroth as well. Was she a triune goddess?!
This is my favorite verse on this topic:
Jdg 6:31 And Joash said unto all that stood against him, Will ye plead for Baal? will ye save him? he that will plead for him, let him be put to death whilst it is yet morning: if he be a god (elohim), let him plead for himself, because one hath cast down his altar.
Was Baal a triune god? I think not. It was a term used as reverence and majesty!
Elohim means plural. Plural what?????? That's the real question. Elohim does NOT support the Trinity.
As for 'let us make man . . . .", I have discussed this so much I'm tired of having to type it out.
So I'll just give one point:
I get up tomorrow morning, and while dressing for cycling to work, I say to myself, "Let's (contraction of 'Let us') go and get 'em!" Am I talking to another subdivision inside me? someone else? NO! I'm talking to myself! We use the exact same language when we talk to ourselves. Does it mean that we have a trinity of ourselves? three distinct substances of us who make decisions? Hardly.
Now LET'S go watch a movie
Yes I understand the multiple use of the word, but God is also used in those senses. The context and connotation is always important. CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT. The three most important words in Biblical exegesis.
2 Cor 11:3-6
[sup]3 [/sup]But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. [sup]4 [/sup]For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully. [sup]5 [/sup]For I consider myself not in the least inferior to the most eminent apostles. [sup]6 [/sup]But even if I am unskilled in speech, yet I am not so in knowledge; in fact, in every way we have made this evident to you in all things.
We must understand that although the Bible may speak about other gods or Jesus', they have to use the words that existed at that time in Greek or Hebrew, which were many, and we filter those through context and the Holy Spirit. Clues for a Triune God or the Trinity are ubiquitous throughout God's Word. Jesus instructed His disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He is putting all three in the same importance so obviously He is telling us of the Triune nature of God. NOT three Gods, three natures or beings in ONE God.
In that case, I think we are out of context if we insist on a Trinity when so many times the Bible declares the Holy One. If God really was a Trinity, don't you think he would have told us flat out like that instead of saying he's one?
God doesn't muddle things up. He doesn't make things complicated or confusing. The moment we start making a jumble about God being one and yet being three distinct persons in a Trinity, I would say that we are being extremely confusing. That is why so many Jews and Muslims CANNOT accept Christianity.
Yes he is one, Triune means 3 in 1. There is ONLY one God. He has three distinct natures, like a box is L x W x H, God is Father x Son x Holy Spirit. One God, three intersecting beings, totally homogenous.
This is NOT why so many Jews don't accept Christianity. That is an assertion NOT a fact. Jews have no problem with the Messiah. They just been fooled into thinkg Jesus wasn't their Messiah. Every day, more and more Jews discover the truth.
Muslims are another story. Based on the writings of Mohamed, they believe person born, is born a Muslim, and then fall away from there or don't pursue their laws to complete the process.
As I have pointed out, the Triune nature of God in the NT and OT is clear. Just like Omniscience, Omnipresence and Omnipotence is NOT used anywhere in the Bible, but we understand and accept the concepts. Notice how the Omni's depict God? Three natures, ONE God.
Wow. Really Stan, can we mess things up more? I love teaching kids, for the simple reason, you tell them, "Jesus is God." And they believe it without have to form some massive theory.
For the omni- parts, let me bring some things to the forefront:
Omnipotent IS found in the NT. The Greek word is actually mentioned 10 times in all. Once as omnipotent, 9 times as almighty. It's black and white that God is OMNIPOTENT.
Rev 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Omniscient. While never directly mentioned, omniscient means knowing everything. With that in mind, we find it OPENLY stated several times in Scripture, and it's insinuated many many more.
1Jn 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
Omnipresence. This also is the same as omniscient. Never directly mentioned, but it's definition is found many times.
Pro 15:3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.
Jer 23:24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.
Unlike these three attributes of God, the Trinity is doesn't have this sound Scriptural support. All of them are assumptions. Hey, look, the Lord was on earth and called down brimstone from the Lord in heaven. Well guess what? Is it such a big thing for the Lord, who is EVERYWHERE and ALMIGHTY, to be able to do that? Why do we have to take huge steps of assumption instead? Where does the Trinity get it's definition from? Where is it rooted? That's what needs to be answered. For too long, Christians have defended a doctrine that God never stated.
WHERE in the OT do we find the Trinity spoken of? Where do we find support for it?
First of all, who is WE?
Teaching Sunday School with basic, simple concepts is normal. Jesus IS God. Kids don't form theories until they are much older. When was the last time you read a thesis from a kid?
You may have found Omnipotent in the KJV, but it is NOT in the Greek... MOUNCE translates Rev 19:6 as follows: Then I heard what sounded like the voice of a great multitude—it was like the roar of many waters, like the sound of crashing thunder—crying out, “Hallelujah! For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns!
Handel made it popular in his oratorio Messiah. Maybe you are confusing his song with scripture?
My whole point is that the OMNIs are NOT directly mentioned, but the concept is supported in scripture, the same as the Trinity or Triune God. Not sure how you can see the former but not the later?
I've already given the scriptures and the Hebrew and Greek words. Ignoring or avoiding them, doesn't make them go away or not exist. It's not a HUGE step to see the Trinity concept.
If Jesus, being God, expresses the Triune concept in His own words, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, why would you find it hard to accept? I am a Son, Father and Grand Father...how hard is that to understand?
I specialized in English. It's a particular case used to achieve focus point. But that's English. If you wish, we could discuss more about it in another forum.
This is what Jesus said about kids:
Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
There's a simple trust in children that we often lose as adults. We DON'T NEED theories. We need to have trust in God's word.
I doubt it, because I've never heard the song. So? It's mistranslated? It means the exact same thing as almighty. What's the point?
If the Trinity is so strongly supported, how is it that you have only given me ONE verse which 'supports' it? (I'm about to go into that verse) And by the way, we are trying to find a 'Trinity support' verse in the OT, not the NT. I'd be nice if we stick to the OT verses in support of the Trinity . . . if there are any at all.
Hohoho. That was a good one. Me ignoring scripture verses? Please! I backtracked, and I found ONE Scripture reference that is used for the Trinity: Matthew 28:19.
Firstly, that's in the NT. Focus please. We are NOT looking for evidence in the NT at the moment. We are looking at the OT. Where in the OT do we find the theme of the Trinity mentioned? We find the ONE God of Israel, the ONE LORD of Israel, but no Trinity.
Secondly, even though it's slightly off-topic, I will answer this Scripture, because it seems that you think I've purposely avoided it. Far from it. I LOVE this Scripture verse.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
1. There is ONE name. Whose name is it? JESUS! And who is that name of? The Father. Who is that name of? The Son. Who also has that name? The Holy Ghost. If all three titles are bearing ONE name, are we going to assume that there are three persons in some co-equal triune Godhead ALL with the same name, or is it because they are ONE person? The FATHER is JESUS, the SON is JESUS, the HOLY GHOST is JESUS. They are not three separate persons, they are titles all belonging to the ONE person, JESUS!
2. You probably noticed me talking about titles? Is Father a name? Son? Holy Ghost? None of them are names. They are titles. And guess what? ONE person can have plenty of titles! I'll use myself as an example: JOSES, rugby league player, poet, writer, editor, fast food sales assistant, duty manager, son, nephew. Am I a poet? YES! Am I a son? Yes. (and hopefully I'll be a father some day soon
) All these titles don't mean that there are 8 personalities in my mind. There's JUST ME!If anything, this verse points to JESUS as the ONE and ONLY God, the Creator of EVERYTHING.
Now can we have something from the OT that supports the Trinity? Please? . . . . .
I specialized in English. It's a particular case used to achieve focus point. But that's English. If you wish, we could discuss more about it in another forum.
This is what Jesus said about kids:
Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
There's a simple trust in children that we often lose as adults. We DON'T NEED theories. We need to have trust in God's word.
I doubt it, because I've never heard the song. So? It's mistranslated? It means the exact same thing as almighty. What's the point?
If the Trinity is so strongly supported, how is it that you have only given me ONE verse which 'supports' it? (I'm about to go into that verse) And by the way, we are trying to find a 'Trinity support' verse in the OT, not the NT. I'd be nice if we stick to the OT verses in support of the Trinity . . . if there are any at all.
Hohoho. That was a good one. Me ignoring scripture verses? Please! I backtracked, and I found ONE Scripture reference that is used for the Trinity: Matthew 28:19.
Firstly, that's in the NT. Focus please. We are NOT looking for evidence in the NT at the moment. We are looking at the OT. Where in the OT do we find the theme of the Trinity mentioned? We find the ONE God of Israel, the ONE LORD of Israel, but no Trinity.
Secondly, even though it's slightly off-topic, I will answer this Scripture, because it seems that you think I've purposely avoided it. Far from it. I LOVE this Scripture verse.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
1. There is ONE name. Whose name is it? JESUS! And who is that name of? The Father. Who is that name of? The Son. Who also has that name? The Holy Ghost. If all three titles are bearing ONE name, are we going to assume that there are three persons in some co-equal triune Godhead ALL with the same name, or is it because they are ONE person? The FATHER is JESUS, the SON is JESUS, the HOLY GHOST is JESUS. They are not three separate persons, they are titles all belonging to the ONE person, JESUS!
2. You probably noticed me talking about titles? Is Father a name? Son? Holy Ghost? None of them are names. They are titles. And guess what? ONE person can have plenty of titles! I'll use myself as an example: JOSES, rugby league player, poet, writer, editor, fast food sales assistant, duty manager, son, nephew. Am I a poet? YES! Am I a son? Yes. (and hopefully I'll be a father some day soon
If anything, this verse points to JESUS as the ONE and ONLY God, the Creator of EVERYTHING.
Now can we have something from the OT that supports the Trinity? Please? . . . . .
Well could it be your specialty is keeping you from seeing the simplistic? I am NOT a specialist in English, bit I do understand concepts and the Trinity is a viable one.
Yes, that's right about kids, so why bring it up about children NOT understanding adult theories and concepts? Bad analogy I guess?
Well NOT exactly the same. Omnipotence includes almighty. The point is you said it was IN the Bible, which it isn't, and it is IN the NT, which you just said wasn't what the OP asked. So what is it? Do we use the entire bible, or only the OT to answer the question? Is God only Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent in the NT or in the whole Bible? Is the Triune God only existent in the NT or in the whole Bible? God and Jesus are separate and one. They existed before time began. They existed when God said, "Let US make man in OUR image" They existed when The Holy Spirit came on Jesus in His baptism under John the Baptist and they existed when the Holy Spirit came in Acts 2. Jesus said He Himself was an Advocate and that God would send ANOTHER advocate, the Holy Spirit. Again Elohim denotes a God that exists in plurality based on the word. Sounds to me like trinity is plural. When Jesus prayed in the garden, who was He praying to? Himself? Why would he even have to pray? If Jesus is the ONLY name under heaven by which we must be saved, why does He tell His Apostles to Baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Maybe because of the same reason He says in John 14:15-17; [sup]15 [/sup]“If you love me, keep my commands. [sup]16 [/sup]And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— [sup]17 [/sup]the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
Without the NT, we would not have a lot of clarification about the OT. We would probably still allow men to give certificates of divorce if Jesus hadn't said "No that is NOT what God intended" "Stay married" Isn't it interesting that Jesus had to explain this to the Pharisees and the Teachers of the Law? Even today we don't listen to that command.
As an English specialist, you should be able to see and comprehend the intimate nature and involvement of these three beings, and how they work as one? If not, I guess we have nothing more to talk about in this regard.
Can anyone show written that there are three Gods or that they form a triune God?
Can anyone explain how to get around hundreds of such proof texts making the three theism impossible?
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Gal 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
2Sa 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
Act 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. (God of Abraham, Isaak and Jacob YHWH).
Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Acts 10:38 – "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power. He went about doing good and healing all oppressed by the devil, for God was with him."
Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Psa 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
Can anyone explain how to get around hundreds of such proof texts making the three theism impossible?
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Gal 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
2Sa 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
Act 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. (God of Abraham, Isaak and Jacob YHWH).
Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Acts 10:38 – "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power. He went about doing good and healing all oppressed by the devil, for God was with him."
Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Psa 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
There is no trinity in the bible. Least not in Mat 28:19
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
The highlighted words were translated and tainted by the fear of the catholic Church. The wording "and of the" is not in the original text.
Translated says The head of the household, the Son, the Holy Breath.
Christ shed light on the fact that God and the Holy Spirit are the same.
John 4
24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
Christ also shed Light on the fact that He is the father.
John 14
9 --------- He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
Backed up by Paul here.
Colossians 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
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Thanks, I didn't know this.
Joh 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
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