The Two Anointed Ones = The Two Witnesses

[Earburner]

I think the two witnesses whoever they may be will be for this age and represent the same role as it was for John the Baptist and the other great prophets of God and witnesses of Christ.

As well as being our Savior, Jesus was a prophet, being the last prophet. Heb. 1
1. God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2. Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Now the great representatives of God are few and far between. John the Baptist and the 12 were the last near on 2,000 years ago. The next will not come until the enProphet.

"The next" prophet that came after John was the Lord Jesus Christ. Heb. 1:1-2 explains that Jesus was the last prophet, "in these last days".

Just like the time and conditions were right and ready for the prophets and the road was made ready for John to proclaim the coming Messiah so it will be the for coming of the two witnesses.

When John was proclaiming the Christ this was a time of Messianic thinking. It happened at the right time that Johns words rang in peoples ears. Any other time and it would not be recieved and have the same impact. The same with the prophesies and judges. Their proclamations came at a time that the peoples ears were ready and the words had the most impact.

According to Heb. 1:1-2,
Jesus (who was "brought forth from time everlasting"), was the Last Prophet that God raised for Him to speak through.

I think it will be the same for the two witnesses. If they come 100 or 50 years ago the time would not be right and the people would not understand or listen and Gods spirit would not have the same impact.

It says the witnesses will speak truths that the people cannot ignore and it torments them. They will hate it so much that they will kill the two witnesses. Obviously to Christians this will be great revelations.

So I think the time of preparing the way will happen before they come. If we could imagine a time when people are willing to kill witnesses of Christ. Even in the face of knowing that the witnesses spke the truth. Because their words for ready for that moment in time that people ears (mind) heard that truth. Could not deny it.

I think that is the present time in preparing the way for the two witnesses. People are becoming willing to kill the messenger becuase they speak the truth. People are far more aware and can see the evil in the world. The world has tried and failed every trick in the book to deny the truth and the excuses are running out.

So when the witnesses come with words that are greater than any words people can speak that it cuts to the bone they will become like those whole plotted to kill Christ. But without the trial.

John the Baptist was the witness of who Jesus was/is.
Jesus was/is the witness of who God the Father is.
From the parable of the Rich man and Lazarus:
Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, NEITHER will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead [who is Jesus].

The Lord Jesus is the Last witness of all the prophets.

 

[Earburner]

That is not quite correct. Did you actually read the article? The central argument is that Jesus is using a parable with spiritual symbolism, particularly concerning Israel, the Gentiles, the Old Covenant, and the New Covenant—not giving a literal description of people consciously burning in hell immediately after death.

Short summary of the article if someone is too lazy or refuse to read it.​

• It is a parable, not a literal account of two men in heaven and hell. The author argues that reading it literally creates contradictions with other Scriptures concerning death, resurrection, and final judgment.
• The rich man represents national Israel under the Old Covenant. His purple and fine linen symbolize the spiritual privileges and riches God had entrusted to Israel—“the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law...” (Romans 9:4).
• The problem was not physical wealth but spiritual pride. Israel had been entrusted with God's Word and covenant blessings but became self-righteous and failed to properly distribute those “riches” to others. The author connects this with Luke 16:10–15, where the Pharisees are condemned for trusting in themselves.
• Lazarus represents the spiritually poor and needy. He is poor, covered with sores, and dependent upon the rich man for crumbs. The author connects this with the “poor in spirit” (Matthew 5:3)—those who recognize their spiritual need and depend upon God's righteousness rather than their own.
• There is a strong Gentile connection. The sores represent uncleanness, while the dogs reinforce the imagery of Gentiles being regarded by Jews as outsiders or “unclean.” The author specifically connects Lazarus' crumbs with the Gentile woman in Matthew 15:22–28, where Jesus speaks of the children's bread and the “dogs” eating the crumbs.
• The great reversal represents the transition from Old Covenant Israel to New Covenant Israel. The one who was “rich” is brought low, while those who were spiritually poor are brought into the kingdom. This fits Jesus' statement that “the first shall be last; and the last first” (Luke 13:30).
• “Abraham's bosom” represents the covenant people of God. Lazarus being received into Abraham's bosom symbolizes the Gentiles and others who are brought into the promises through faith, rather than relying upon physical descent from Abraham.
• The final message is a warning to listen to God's Word now. The rich man's reference to “Moses and the prophets” (Luke 16:29) emphasizes that God's revelation is sufficient and that people must respond to it during this life.

In one sentence​

The author sees Lazarus and the rich man as a spiritual picture of the fall of proud, self-righteous Old Covenant Israel and the bringing in of the spiritually poor—including Gentiles—into the New Covenant kingdom through faith in Christ, rather than a literal picture of two individuals presently experiencing heaven and hell. Selah!

Another point to think about is the “dogs” and the Gentile woman in Matthew 15 is especially important because the article explicitly makes that connection: Lazarus wanting the crumbs from the rich man's table parallels the Gentile woman saying that “the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.”

Spiritually discerned is what you need to understand what the parable is really about instead of what Sunday School taught you.

Selah.

In my answer to @KUWN ,I was answering his request of "what my point was" about the parable of the RM&Lazaras.
In my post #76, I informed him of the imposed errors of belief that the parable was introducing, of what goes on in the spiritual world after death.
Unfortunately, in that semi-fictional story, Christians today see those errors as being absolute truth, simply because they came from the mouth of Jesus, who is the Truth.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Don't get me wrong, by all means history has its place in the prophetic being fulfilled, but God is a spirit who lives in eternity where there is with Him no need for time, except what He has ordained for this world and us.

That part I underlined in your statement is exactly what I am posting about. In the OT, God would boast about His ability to call the end from the beginning, even before events came to pass on earth, just to demonstrate His omniscience and His deity. I am merely posting about Revelation's past fulfillment concerning the exact time in which Christ said He would accomplish those things. I glory in a God who could reveal ahead of time to his prophet John the exact details of what was about to occur in John's own days, and for which we have records by historians and archaeological evidence of a very detailed past fulfillment of Revelation's prophecies.

However, much of it is coded and signified, so as to keep the coming of His only begotten Son into the world, shrouded IN SECRECY.

The year for the coming of God's son as "Messiah the Prince" was most definitely revealed by Daniel's 70 week prophecy. The year of the Messiah's manifestation at the beginning of that 70th week was so well known that even the Samaritan woman at the well knew that she could expect to see this in her days. The Pharisees were likewise well-apprised of the year when Messiah was to show up on the scene, which is why they sent a delegation to John the Baptist in AD 30 to ask if he were that prophet. None of this was "shrouded in secrecy", as you suppose. Anyone informed of Daniel's 70 week prophecy could figure out the AD 30 year of Christ's manifestation to Israel.

 Rom. 16:25
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

This "mystery" Paul openly taught and revealed to everyone in his own generation - that the Gentiles were then and always had been part of the family of God if they were the "children of faith" along with faithful Abraham. Anyone who was at all perceptive among the ethnic Jewish community in the OT could see that, even back then, God was granting family-of-God status and inheritance to strangers not from Israel who chose to unite themselves to worshipping the God of Israel and following His laws.

So then, it's not by "the wisdom of men" that we can know the future by a series of historic recordings, but rather by the teachings of His Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 2:13) "according to the Revelation of the mystery" through the mind of Christ within us, which was kept secret since the world began.
1 Cor. 2:12-13
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

I have already given you above the spiritual implications of why God got rid of the two witnesses long ago, the former high priests Ananas and Joshua. You don't agree with those spiritual implications, but that is your own issue. ALL of Revelation has been fulfilled with the lone exception of Revelation 10:4 - the prophecies which the seven thunders uttered, but that were "sealed up" for times in the distant future from John's own first-century generation.

To "seal up" a prophecy is to reserve it for a much later fulfillment than the immediate present. Those seven thunders' prophecies which were "sealed up" in Rev. 10:4 included events also related to us and our future. But ALL OTHER predictions which were related to the future God told John were "ABOUT TO BE hereafter" (Rev. 1:19). These were SOON to be fulfilled after AD 60 when John was writing Revelation. And that INCLUDES the two witnesses being slain in the streets of Jerusalem long ago in AD 66.

 

[Earburner]

Jesus always spoke the truth.



No issue there.



Good reason to avoid that place.




Only in this situation. Job was rich but not like this one.




Dead physically but soul is alive and awake.




Yes.




Yes.

And my point was, in the parable of the RM&L, all of the issues that I pointed out are based on FICTION of what the Jews themselves believed.

But, just because Jesus reiterated their beliefs back to them, that doesn't make what Jesus said about an after life to be factual and true. Unfortunately, the story gets read verbatim and then lies get cast into truth in peoples minds as being truth, simply because they don't understand what a parable is and how it works!!

However, what Jesus did say in Luke 16:31
IS THE TRUTH, and is the ONLY reason FOR the parable.

 

[Earburner]

That part I underlined in your statement is exactly what I am posting about. In the OT, God would boast about His ability to call the end from the beginning, even before events came to pass on earth, just to demonstrate His omniscience and His deity. I am merely posting about Revelation's past fulfillment concerning the exact time in which Christ said He would accomplish those things. I glory in a God who could reveal ahead of time to his prophet John the exact details of what was about to occur in John's own days, and for which we have records by historians and archaeological evidence of a very detailed past fulfillment of Revelation's prophecies.

I agree with your understanding about God's omniscience.
However, I disagree as to who you are saying the two anointed ones were that did come, AFTER the appearance of John the Baptist and the first manifestation of Christ in the flesh.

The year for the coming of God's son as "Messiah the Prince" was most definitely revealed by Daniel's 70 week prophecy. The year of the Messiah's manifestation at the beginning of that 70th week was so well known that even the Samaritan woman at the well knew that she could expect to see this in her days. The Pharisees were likewise well-apprised of the year when Messiah was to show up on the scene, which is why they sent a delegation to John the Baptist in AD 30 to ask if he were that prophet. None of this was "shrouded in secrecy", as you suppose. Anyone informed of Daniel's 70 week prophecy could figure out the AD 30 year of Christ's manifestation to Israel.

As an Amillennial believer in Christ, I fully agree and do understand that the 70th was the week of John and Jesus's joint ministry for 3.5 years, and then for the other 3.5 years, Jesus nourished the early chuch by his Holy Spirit through His Apostles, hence their epistles of the same.

This "mystery" Paul openly taught and revealed to everyone in his own generation - that the Gentiles were then and always had been part of the family of God if they were the "children of faith" along with faithful Abraham. Anyone who was at all perceptive among the ethnic Jewish community in the OT could see that, even back then, God was granting family-of-God status and inheritance to strangers not from Israel who chose to unite themselves to worshipping the God of Israel and following His laws.


I have already given you above the spiritual implications of why God got rid of the two witnesses long ago, the former high priests Ananas and Joshua. You don't agree with those spiritual implications, but that is your own issue.

God got rid of his Two anointed ones of Zeck ch. 4??
In regards to Ananas and Joshua, that you call "the two anointed ones", as being anything spiritual, I think that you have derailed yourself by looking at all of Zech. ch. 3 and 4 as being strictly historical and nothing more.
In so doing, you have virtually destroyed the meaning of the word anointed.
But, if you wanted to say that John and Jesus were anointed, then I would gladly agree with you.

I know Who Zech. 3:8-10 is talking about. He who is the "Branch" (vs.8) is one of the two anointed ones, who were John and Jesus, in their Joint ministry for 1260 days, aka 3.5 years. John for 6 mos. and Jesus for 3 years equals 7 years, aka one prophetic week of the 70. Dan. 9:27.

ALL of Revelation has been fulfilled with the lone exception of Revelation 10:4 - the prophecies which the seven thunders uttered, but that were "sealed up" for times in the distant future from John's own first-century generation.

To "seal up" a prophecy is to reserve it for a much later fulfillment than the immediate present. Those seven thunders' prophecies which were "sealed up" in Rev. 10:4 included events also related to us and our future. But ALL OTHER predictions which were related to the future God told John were "ABOUT TO BE hereafter" (Rev. 1:19). These were SOON to be fulfilled after AD 60 when John was writing Revelation. And that INCLUDES the two witnesses being slain in the streets of Jerusalem long ago in AD 66.

No, all of Revelation has NOT been fulfilled.
For one, the Mark of the Beast has not yet been manifested, and neither has WW3 taken place, whereby one third of men are slain/killed in ONE 24 hour day. Rev. 9:13-21.