The United States of Evil

[veteran]

What nation furthered the organization of the Taliban and al Qaeda? The United States. Its been admitted to by Hillary Clinton. Back in the 1980's when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, the CIA recruited, trained and equipped several indigenous organizations into effective guerilla groups to fight the Soviets. One of their best students was Osama bin Laden.

Al Qaeda isn't some sort of coordinated international organization. Rather its a loose number of groups of Muslim radicals. They are specific to their regions and nations and as such are manipulated by national and regional influences. Some of the influences are quiet and work in the background - like the CIA. In Libya a few years ago, al Qaeda assisted the British, French and American governments in overthrowing Qhadaffi. Senator John McCain called them 'heros'. Heros? Don't think I'd use that term, but he did.

Forward to the modern day - the last months of 2012. Focus on Syria. For nearly two years 'rebel' troops have been fighting against President Assad. Al Qaeda fighters are chief among the insurrectionists and have caused more death and destruction than the government troops. They are funded by Saudi Arabia and Qatar through offices in Istanbul. War materials are purchased organized and distributed by the USA, Britain and France. The 'rebel' groups are nearly identical to the flying death squads run by the CIA in Nicaragua in the 1980's. Coincidence? I think not.

Is it ok for American hands to be bathed in the blood of innocent people (again) just because everybody else does it?

Do you accept that justification from a child? Is it really ok to do it as long as everybody else does it? Really?

If God does not judge America, then He needs to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

So now you blame ISLAMIC EXTREMISM from their religiious traditions on the United States??? Truly, there's no limit to Leftist's hatred of the U.S.

 

[tgwprophet]

Ok, everyone see your paintball guns are loaded and in the un-safe position, that your perspectives can paint its country the colour of your desire.

With no government truly seeking God how can one expect their government to desire harmony?
Is it not the desire for all governments to infect their will among other countries for thier benefit? And if this wuest benefits the conquered country... would not the victorious government cliam themself just? Who but the mightest country would conwuer the most? DOES thei reflect the will of the people or just the will of those in charge of the people?

My contention is the governments of the world are not following God, but does not mean the people do not desire to follow God.
I cannot judge you by what atrocities your governmet without your control commits, unless you condone it. To prove this, I ask of you... do not judge me by what Obama does, for I do not support his ideas.

Ok, everyone see your paintball guns are loaded and in the un-safe position, that your perspectives can paint its country the colour of your desire.

With no government truly seeking God how can one expect their government to desire harmony?
Is it not the desire for all governments to infect their will among other countries for thier benefit? And if this wuest benefits the conquered country... would not the victorious government cliam themself just? Who but the mightest country would conwuer the most? DOES thei reflect the will of the people or just the will of those in charge of the people?

Peltast - Where would you be today had USA stayed out of WWII and what language would you speak?

My contention is the governments of the world are not following God, but does not mean the people do not desire to follow God.
I cannot judge you by what atrocities your governmet without your control commits, unless you condone it. To prove this, I ask of you... do not judge me by what Obama does, for I do not support his ideas.

 

[veteran]

Ok, everyone see your paintball guns are loaded and in the un-safe position, that your perspectives can paint its country the colour of your desire.

With no government truly seeking God how can one expect their government to desire harmony?
Is it not the desire for all governments to infect their will among other countries for thier benefit? And if this wuest benefits the conquered country... would not the victorious government cliam themself just? Who but the mightest country would conwuer the most? DOES thei reflect the will of the people or just the will of those in charge of the people?

My contention is the governments of the world are not following God, but does not mean the people do not desire to follow God.
I cannot judge you by what atrocities your governmet without your control commits, unless you condone it. To prove this, I ask of you... do not judge me by what Obama does, for I do not support his ideas.


Ok, everyone see your paintball guns are loaded and in the un-safe position, that your perspectives can paint its country the colour of your desire.

With no government truly seeking God how can one expect their government to desire harmony?
Is it not the desire for all governments to infect their will among other countries for thier benefit? And if this wuest benefits the conquered country... would not the victorious government cliam themself just? Who but the mightest country would conwuer the most? DOES thei reflect the will of the people or just the will of those in charge of the people?

Peltast - Where would you be today had USA stayed out of WWII and what language would you speak?

My contention is the governments of the world are not following God, but does not mean the people do not desire to follow God.
I cannot judge you by what atrocities your governmet without your control commits, unless you condone it. To prove this, I ask of you... do not judge me by what Obama does, for I do not support his ideas.

When God prophesied through Jacob in Genesis 48 to Ephraim, that he would become "a multutide of nations", and that his brother Manasseh would also become "great", that means by God's Hand, not just a working by man.

Because many brethren are wrongly taught to disregard Old Testament study about God's separation of Israel into two houses with specific prophesy given for each, and the study of God's Birthright and where it wound up, that's why they cannot see the bigger picture of what Christ's first coming to establish The Gospel did in regard to the western Christian nations of history.

The LORD even showed us early in Genesis 49 how David's throne would continue to exist on earth all the way up to the time of Christ's second coming when He comes to inherit it on earth, and the government will then be upon His shoulders.

So the Biblically ignorant need to quit arbitrarily assigning the 'idea' of government as a working of 'this' world, when that idea actualy originates from The LORD HImself and His Government, an Eternal Divine one with Himself as The reigning King.

The reason many hate the idea of 'government' today is because that is what they have been taught... to hate by Satan's own servants who seek to destroy ALL governments on the earth, so they can try to establish something different than what God established among His people.

Never mind that there's not many true leaders in government left today that care to fight for what God established among His people in the Christian west. God forewarned us of these times, that this kind of tearing down of our Christian structures would happen in the end of this world! He showed us why that tearing down must happen also. He intends for each one of us to make a stand for Him anyway, and be prepared to wage spiritual warfare against those doing the tearing down.

The time is getting closer when many of us who believe on Christ Jesus will be delivered up to give a Testimony against them by The Holy Spirit. THAT is when Satan's government takeover of this world is going to really start weakening, and then with Christ's return it will come completely tumbling down.

 

[tgwprophet]

Front and Center... are you trying to claim USA will be on the side of Isreal at Armagesson? Of course it will not !

USA is IN favor of a Mark of the Beast. USA has been continually throwing God out of public offices.
USA is turning pro-abortion pro-gays

Can you provide one instant in Scripture where Israel is not alone at Armageddon? And i mean not the sole country trying to defend itself.

 

[veteran]

Front and Center... are you trying to claim USA will be on the side of Isreal at Armagesson? Of course it will not !

USA is IN favor of a Mark of the Beast. USA has been continually throwing God out of public offices.
USA is turning pro-abortion pro-gays

Can you provide one instant in Scripture where Israel is not alone at Armageddon? And i mean not the sole country trying to defend itself.

The failure you're having is with understanding who all God's Israel represents for the end of this world.

The list of nations of Ezekiel 38 that come upon Israel at the end just so happen to be enemies of the United States and its allies at present also. If you would quit listening to deceivers you would understand this.

God is going to allow Satan's host to do a takeover of all nations for the tribulation timing, and that ESPECIALLY means the state of Israel in the holy land today, for that's going to be ground zero of the one-world beast kingdom, and where the coming pseudo-Christ will sit proclaiming himself as God as written.

So ask yourself, if the coming Antichrist is going to use Jerusalem as his headquarters for his beast kingdom, then how can the army out of the northern quarters per Ezekiel 38-39 come upon against that area on the final day of this world? Ask yourself just who is it that is under attack today by world Communism allied with radical Islam?

 

[tgwprophet]

Veteran you are claiming that Ezekiel 38-39 is at the battle of Armageddon, i do not claim this. When that battle takes place there is a cemetary named Hamon-gog and it will receive bodies or body parts for 7 months (if i remember rightly). This means you must consider this cemetary is formed AFTER Armageddon and is a repository for radiated bodies and body parts while Jesus sits upon the throne, I cannot go along with that. But I think this battle takes place even before China makes its assault on Israel. Consider the reason the army of two hundred thousand thousand come after Israel... it is not becasie Satan directed them. Now consider the reason Gog and MaGog come after Israel... again it is not becasue Satan directed them... it is to take a spoil. Now if China and Gog and MaGog come at the same time as in Armageddon then they would be fighting each other. This would not be a joint effort, certainly not a campaign where each army does not know why the other is there, each having their own agenda yet orchrastrated by one person - Satan, it don't fit.

I understand many think that the descriptions concerning Gog and MaGog and China as welll as Gomer and his bands and Turmal and Persia and the orthers are all part of the battle of Armageddon. I do not think so. This does not mean I cannot be wrong. But does not mean I am in error.

I should add this... I understand as a person who served this country in military fashion being willing to lay down your life for the lives of your country-man, I respect that. There are others in other countries severing their people with their lives who feel the same way as you... and in many of those countries God's Word as point-blank prophecied against. But, God also makes note of those who serve their country... as being a good thing. I firmly believe that.

OH if USA would have followed the path laid out by our fore-fathers and continously sought God! I too... love my country, but I have contempt for this government and alas it is the government that will direct USA's Army at Armageddon. I would rather that you be right!

Ask this.... why does USA not make an amendment to the constitution that outlaws any possible Mark of the Beast that anyone in public office with the ability to institutionalize such a thing is to be labeled a traitor. For in the USA we are allowed to choose our religion but... Satan is Satan..is the Devil by any name and so is to be banned from our borders. Anyone wishing to follow Satan is welcome to leave USA. As there is no Religion that can provide a Mark from an outside country as a valid Godly requirement... ban it!

In my research my years ago I discovered the League of Nations was setup and USA refused to join so to the ability of this League of Nations becoming a World Power capable of fulfilling Armageddon Prophecy. then Hitler arrived on the scene and a United Nations was formed... which USA joined. And then the NWO was formed and USA coukld no longer stop the advances towards these military mights taking USA into Armageddon. Remember USA is continually giving its authority as a sovrriegn nation over to the UN and NWO, soon they will eclipse the power USA possesses.

Next, how about an amendment to make USA a continual support of Isreal,, no matter what. It is said there are more Christians in USA than other religions... majority rules.. others can move elsewhere.

Actually in my understanding he will be there for the Abomination of Desolation but then be removed. Then when he actually comes to conquer Israel with the world backing him... will enter Jerusalem, whereas the Jews will finally accept Jesus and then Armageddon will ensue. If Satan were to possess Jerusalem prior to this and for any length of time.. why would he not also be eliminating the Jews en-mass? Surely with todays technology and the fact that it is of course Satan... Satan could covertly execute possibly all the Jews without the world knowing about it before Armageddon... Nah, he cannot have possession of Jeruaslem or Isreal prior to Armageddon except for a very short period where he is allowed access to the innner-sanctum of the rebuilt temple.

 

[veteran]

Veteran you are claiming that Ezekiel 38-39 is at the battle of Armageddon, i do not claim this. When that battle takes place there is a cemetary named Hamon-gog and it will receive bodies or body parts for 7 months (if i remember rightly). This means you must consider this cemetary is formed AFTER Armageddon and is a repository for radiated bodies and body parts while Jesus sits upon the throne, I cannot go along with that. But I think this battle takes place even before China makes its assault on Israel. Consider the reason the army of two hundred thousand thousand come after Israel... it is not becasie Satan directed them. Now consider the reason Gog and MaGog come after Israel... again it is not becasue Satan directed them... it is to take a spoil. Now if China and Gog and MaGog come at the same time as in Armageddon then they would be fighting each other. This would not be a joint effort, certainly not a campaign where each army does not know why the other is there, each having their own agenda yet orchrastrated by one person - Satan, it don't fit.

Yes, I do hold that the Ezekiel 38-39 events are about the Armageddon of Rev.16, on the day of The Lord when Christ returns, and He fights it.

Don't know where you're getting that army of two hundred thousand, thousand, except from Rev.9, which is a misinterpretation of a literal war when the Scripture there says the destroying is with what comes out of their MOUTHS. It's not about a literal military army at all. That's a pop tradition of man because of failing to understand about the locust army of the Book of Joel (remember that discussion?).

I understand many think that the descriptions concerning Gog and MaGog and China as welll as Gomer and his bands and Turmal and Persia and the orthers are all part of the battle of Armageddon. I do not think so. This does not mean I cannot be wrong. But does not mean I am in error.

Do a simple comparison between Rev.16 & Rev.19 & Ezekiel 39 & 2 Peter 3:10, etc. The destruction of the Gog-Magog armies is with fire and brimstone and hail from Heaven by God Himself. It's a "day of the Lord" event. Ezekiel 39:22-29 is also about God gathering the whole house of Israel back to the holy lands of promise, which also is to occur on the day of Christ's return on "the day of the Lord". Kind of getting tired of reminding folks about what's there in Ezekiel simply because they refuse to study it.

I should add this... I understand as a person who served this country in military fashion being willing to lay down your life for the lives of your country-man, I respect that. There are others in other countries severing their people with their lives who feel the same way as you... and in many of those countries God's Word as point-blank prophecied against. But, God also makes note of those who serve their country... as being a good thing. I firmly believe that.

OH if USA would have followed the path laid out by our fore-fathers and continously sought God! I too... love my country, but I have contempt for this government and alas it is the government that will direct USA's Army at Armageddon. I would rather that you be right!

I see absolutely NO reference to ANY western Christian nation on that Ezekiel 38 list. You're allowing yourself to be swayed by the Communist-Socialist's 'hate America' tactic, simple as that. The false pinko leaders that have crept in positions over Americans are a minority. They do not represent the majority of the American people. Nor is that creeping in happening only in the U.S. It's been going on in Europe long before it began taking hold here in the U.S. And now those Communist-Socialists that have taken over Europe are spreading it here in the Americas also. No problem though, their time is soon to be up. Christ's coming is near.

Ask this.... why does USA not make an amendment to the constitution that outlaws any possible Mark of the Beast that anyone in public office with the ability to institutionalize such a thing is to be labeled a traitor. For in the USA we are allowed to choose our religion but... Satan is Satan..is the Devil by any name and so is to be banned from our borders. Anyone wishing to follow Satan is welcome to leave USA. As there is no Religion that can provide a Mark from an outside country as a valid Godly requirement... ban it!

Do you forget that our Heavenly Father is in control of all this. When the children of Israel forgot Him and followed the world, this is what happened. God gave comparisons of the end to the times like Elijah was in, with king Ahab and his pagan wife Jezebel and her beloved prophets of Baal. What has been will be again, and there is no new thing under the sun. The OT ensamples are there for us to study to know what's happening today. Remember, He has always preserved a faithful remnant unto Himself.

In my research my years ago I discovered the League of Nations was setup and USA refused to join so to the ability of this League of Nations becoming a World Power capable of fulfilling Armageddon Prophecy. then Hitler arrived on the scene and a United Nations was formed... which USA joined. And then the NWO was formed and USA coukld no longer stop the advances towards these military mights taking USA into Armageddon. Remember USA is continually giving its authority as a sovrriegn nation over to the UN and NWO, soon they will eclipse the power USA possesses.

There's a lot more to that history, and it goes back a lot farther than the early 1900's. The "workers of iniquity" have been on their plans for "one world government" for centuries. No mystery if they have used the power of the U.S. to slowly bring it forth. They have also used the European powers in that also.

Woodrow Wilson and his Socialist helper Col. Mandel House pushed the League of Nations idea. U.S. Congress actually listened to the American peoples and voted it down then. They 'they' caused WWII. If Congress still refused after WWII, 'they' would have brought another world war, however many it would take to convince the nations to sign onto the idea. And afterall, this was prophecy; it's all according to God's Plan layed out in His Word of Truth.

Next, how about an amendment to make USA a continual support of Isreal,, no matter what. It is said there are more Christians in USA than other religions... majority rules.. others can move elsewhere.

Actually in my understanding he will be there for the Abomination of Desolation but then be removed. Then when he actually comes to conquer Israel with the world backing him... will enter Jerusalem, whereas the Jews will finally accept Jesus and then Armageddon will ensue. If Satan were to possess Jerusalem prior to this and for any length of time.. why would he not also be eliminating the Jews en-mass? Surely with todays technology and the fact that it is of course Satan... Satan could covertly execute possibly all the Jews without the world knowing about it before Armageddon... Nah, he cannot have possession of Jeruaslem or Isreal prior to Armageddon except for a very short period where he is allowed access to the innner-sanctum of the rebuilt temple.

We are shown somewhat in Dan.11 the final Antichrist's reaction to some major event that will sitr him up to go against God's people in final to destroy. We're shown that in Ezekiel 38 & 39 also. Something is going to happen during the tribulation when the world beast kingdom will be at its height that is going to wound it severely. That's when the northern army will come upon God's people on the last day of this world to attempt a complete destruction, and that's when Christ is going to step in to end it with God's consuming fire upon 'them'. (Consider where the Israel that dwells safely without walls per Ezekiel 38 is today).

 

[michaelvpardo]

Hello Veteran,
I haven't visited the forums for a while and was trying to catch up. I was wondering if you've read any of Joel Rosenberg's books. I've only read epicenter and found it fascinating at the time, but can't remember much about it anymore. It was the first time that I'd read an explanation of world events as fulfillment of prophecies found in Ezekial. I'll confess that I find Ezekial to be the most cryptic book in scripture, and I found Rosenberg to be quite believeable. However I did have this one concern. Mr. Rosenberg is self identified as having been an adviser to a number of intelligence agencies, including both the CIA and Israel's Mossod (?) This gave me the idea that his books may have less to do with prophecy than with sculpting popular thought to manipulate world events. Adolf Hitler knew the importance of controlling media and the use of story telling (prevarication) to manipulate the masses to political ends. Misinformation probably plays a bigger role in setting the course of history than the telling of truth. I probably watch way too many movies and shows for my own good, but I've noticed that the villains of many modern dramas are "evil" preachers, psychotic "christians," or militaristic "fundamentalists." It seems as though we're being set up.
Do you think that Rosenberg is legitimate or just a plant?

 

[Rex]

Hello Veteran,
I haven't visited the forums for a while and was trying to catch up. I was wondering if you've read any of Joel Rosenberg's books. I've only read epicenter and found it fascinating at the time, but can't remember much about it anymore. It was the first time that I'd read an explanation of world events as fulfillment of prophecies found in Ezekial. I'll confess that I find Ezekial to be the most cryptic book in scripture, and I found Rosenberg to be quite believeable. However I did have this one concern. Mr. Rosenberg is self identified as having been an adviser to a number of intelligence agencies, including both the CIA and Israel's Mossod (?) This gave me the idea that his books may have less to do with prophecy than with sculpting popular thought to manipulate world events. Adolf Hitler knew the importance of controlling media and the use of story telling (prevarication) to manipulate the masses to political ends. Misinformation probably plays a bigger role in setting the course of history than the telling of truth. I probably watch way too many movies and shows for my own good, but I've noticed that the villains of many modern dramas are "evil" preachers, psychotic "christians," or militaristic "fundamentalists." It seems as though we're being set up.
Do you think that Rosenberg is legitimate or just a plant?

LOL now that's an understatement, Satan has sought to control and steer the truth away from the very inception of Jesus releasing of "Christianity" on the world.
Haven't you noticed our elections lately, Satan is the master of disinformation and If the words of Christ be true "and few find it" its easy to see or "deduce" whos leading who.
Hollywood now that's a mind game as well.

The media of today is very similar to the time described at the tower of babel. Select Men have the attention of nearly the whole world from there tower.
They are like gods, only this time I don't think a simple language scramble will be the solution.

 

[veteran]

Hello Veteran,
I haven't visited the forums for a while and was trying to catch up. I was wondering if you've read any of Joel Rosenberg's books. I've only read epicenter and found it fascinating at the time, but can't remember much about it anymore. It was the first time that I'd read an explanation of world events as fulfillment of prophecies found in Ezekial. I'll confess that I find Ezekial to be the most cryptic book in scripture, and I found Rosenberg to be quite believeable. However I did have this one concern. Mr. Rosenberg is self identified as having been an adviser to a number of intelligence agencies, including both the CIA and Israel's Mossod (?) This gave me the idea that his books may have less to do with prophecy than with sculpting popular thought to manipulate world events. Adolf Hitler knew the importance of controlling media and the use of story telling (prevarication) to manipulate the masses to political ends. Misinformation probably plays a bigger role in setting the course of history than the telling of truth. I probably watch way too many movies and shows for my own good, but I've noticed that the villains of many modern dramas are "evil" preachers, psychotic "christians," or militaristic "fundamentalists." It seems as though we're being set up.
Do you think that Rosenberg is legitimate or just a plant?

No, I have not read any of his books. I do not read books about the end time events. God's Word is enough. But I do pay attention to history, and do read historical works, primary sources if I can find them. I don't go trusting books put out by the system, like Time-Life books, etc. Most books of history you find at the major bookstore outlets today like Books-A-Million, Barnes & Noble, etc., push 'modern' Revisionist history, pretty much the 'globalist' political correctness thinking.

It might be difficult to believe what I'm going say with the following, but those who stay in God's Word and pay attention to modern event reading between the lines, and researching primary source history will eventually discover there's a lot of truth to the following. God openly reveals future events to us before they happen (Isa.42:9); not just through His Word only, but through events happening in the world, even by the mouths of some involved.

The Georgetown history professor Carrol Quigley is one such example of this. He was Bill Clinton's history professor, and Clinton endorsed him. Quigley in his 1960's work Tragedy And Hope admitted he was an 'insider' allied with what he termed "the establishment". He claimed he was allowed to research the 'secret records' of the establishment for two years. By that he admitted the operation of a type of shadow government operating behind the scenes. He openly revealed it even, giving names of the movement and the names of various people behind, both in the U.S. and in Great Britain. He openly admitted their plans for a one-world socialist government. Many other U.S. statesmen of past history have also admitted that plan, even going back to the 1900's in the U.S.

The reason why so many are ignorant about all that is because of the type of works one must learn to wade through in order to find those revealing it publically through their speeches, books like Quigley's, etc. Most simply do not care to take time to wade through that kind of information, which for many is too difficult a read in the first place. But is it available? Yes. Lot of those working for the movement just cannot keep their mouth shut. It's because of their false pumped up pride, or because of God's influencing, you decide. In 1966 I think it was, Quigley sued his book publishers because they quit printing his work Tragedy And Hope. Only then did he discover why they quit printing it. He found out the printers destroyed the printing plates even. In final Quigley stated that his book must have said some things "the establishment" did not want known. Too late, his book has gone through many underground printings.

So yes to the fact that if a book comes out on the shelves today that is highly publized and marketed as truth, one needs to take that with a grain of salt. The way still many are fooled with those kind of books is because just like the Luke 4 example when Satan quoted Scripture 'almost' perfectly to our Lord Jesus, there was a simple short phrase Satan added to it that changed its whole meaning. Thus the propagandists well understand they must use 'some' of the truth along with their propaganda falsehoods. If one does not know the difference then they are apt to swallow the lies along with it and even become fully swayed it's all truth. The main counter to that working today is still the staying in God's Word line upon line.

Here's another modern example. The journalist Jerome Corsi through the Freedom of Information Act got information released about the proposed Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America, which is the masked name for an American Union like the EU. He revealed whole government departments assigned to work the plan behind the scenes with workers involved that the American people had no clue about, nor were they elected by any Constitutional authority. Just by Corsi getting that info out some in Congress and Senate became more informed, for a lot of them didn't even know about it. This is how secret certain peoples in government today are doing things behind our backs. And it's almost like they dare the American people to do something about it.

 

[tgwprophet]

Veteran wrote: " Don't know where you're getting that army of two hundred thousand, thousand, except from Rev.9, which is a misinterpretation of a literal war when the Scripture there says the destroying is with what comes out of their MOUTHS. It's not about a literal military army at all. That's a pop tradition of man because of failing to understand about the locust army of the Book of Joel (remember that discussion?). "

And, of course you are still wrong about a Joel's connection to the locusts of Revelation. And Chine now boasts an army of two hundred thousand thoussand.... Do you think that is just a coincidence? Of course it is a literal battle.


You wrote: " I see absolutely NO reference to ANY western Christian nation on that Ezekiel 38 list. You're allowing yourself to be swayed by the Communist-Socialist's 'hate America' tactic, simple as that. The false pinko leaders that have crept in positions over Americans are a minority. They do not represent the majority of the American people. Nor is that creeping in happening only in the U.S. It's been going on in Europe long before it began taking hold here in the U.S. And now those Communist-Socialists that have taken over Europe are spreading it here in the Americas also. No problem though, their time is soon to be up. Christ's coming is near. "

I see no connection to USA in Ezekiel either... However, I see no connection to Ezekiel and Armagesson either. This conncetion between Gog and MaGog as being during Armageddon is a contrived connection that is non-existant. The purpose of the Exekiel attack is God putting hooks in their mouth to attack Isreal for a spoil. Armageddon however is an attack to instill the Beasts Mark in the Jews that Satan can possess them. All the pre-Armagesson attacks Godd shows shy they occur... that is because they are individul attacks, and attacks that fail. There is but one reason for the campaign that is Arrmagesson... for Satan to gain control over the Jews.,


You seek out the word definition and grammar and I seek out the wisdom in God's Word and you think you can defeat me in a debate, or find greater truth and understanding? Wisdom is the path to discover truth not grammar and word definition.

Address what I said about the reasons for the wars such as Gog and MaGog comming ffor a spoil yet China atttacking due to Israel's morals and the diverse agendas for these battles, yet the battle of Armageddon is of one agenda... for Satan to gain dominion over the Jews by forcing a Mark on them that there is a world-wide monetary system - one agenda for that war - Satan's.

Further note Veteran.... Understand this of me... While I see and recognize the valiidity and honor in being a Veteran... I consider that those that made this country worthy of requiring protection by a military is AS GREAT as those that protect it... yet they are not given the same monetary asdsistance. A military person giving his abilities (meaning becoming dis-abled) or life in a war is provided for much better than a civilian giving his same abilities (meaning becoming dis-abled ) or life in making this country worthy of being protected. This should not be so, it should be equal. The civilian gives his work and his money... the military person gives only his work and receives his money FROM the civilian. Life endangerment percentage for a person spending 2 years in the military againsst a civilian spending a lifetime ? Now I am not contending a person serving or that served in the military should receive any less... but I amn saying it should be equal. That is my tail and I am wagging it.

 

[veteran]

Veteran wrote: " Don't know where you're getting that army of two hundred thousand, thousand, except from Rev.9, which is a misinterpretation of a literal war when the Scripture there says the destroying is with what comes out of their MOUTHS. It's not about a literal military army at all. That's a pop tradition of man because of failing to understand about the locust army of the Book of Joel (remember that discussion?). "

And, of course you are still wrong about a Joel's connection to the locusts of Revelation. And Chine now boasts an army of two hundred thousand thoussand.... Do you think that is just a coincidence? Of course it is a literal battle.

I am not wrong about what the locusts of Rev.9 represent; it's not about a literal military army; it's about Satan's host of false prophets for the tribulation period that takes place ON the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe timing. That's why Rev.9 reveals their 'power' is from their MOUTHS and their TAILS, and not from literal weapons of war. Their object is to destroy spiritually, not physically with war. And the number given there is simply an expression as a great host.

Now per your idea of a physical army like from Red China, that would be excluding all the nations on the Ezekiel 38 list which would make up even a whole lot more... than 200 thousand, thousand.

You wrote: " I see absolutely NO reference to ANY western Christian nation on that Ezekiel 38 list. You're allowing yourself to be swayed by the Communist-Socialist's 'hate America' tactic, simple as that. The false pinko leaders that have crept in positions over Americans are a minority. They do not represent the majority of the American people. Nor is that creeping in happening only in the U.S. It's been going on in Europe long before it began taking hold here in the U.S. And now those Communist-Socialists that have taken over Europe are spreading it here in the Americas also. No problem though, their time is soon to be up. Christ's coming is near. "

I see no connection to USA in Ezekiel either... However, I see no connection to Ezekiel and Armagesson either. This conncetion between Gog and MaGog as being during Armageddon is a contrived connection that is non-existant. The purpose of the Exekiel attack is God putting hooks in their mouth to attack Isreal for a spoil. Armageddon however is an attack to instill the Beasts Mark in the Jews that Satan can possess them. All the pre-Armagesson attacks Godd shows shy they occur... that is because they are individul attacks, and attacks that fail. There is but one reason for the campaign that is Arrmagesson... for Satan to gain control over the Jews.,

You seek out the word definition and grammar and I seek out the wisdom in God's Word and you think you can defeat me in a debate, or find greater truth and understanding? Wisdom is the path to discover truth not grammar and word definition.

Try to cover each verse in Ezekiel 38 & 39 line upon line while trying to enforce that false claim. I can easily prove you wrong by doing just that, covering those chapters line upon line. Why? Because there is direct related Scripture to the fire, brimstone, and hail that is to occur with the battle of Armageddon per Rev.16 & 19. And then, prophecy is given about the gathering of the whole house of Israel (ten tribes) back to the holy lands, a subject God covered just back at Ezek.37 which will only occur at Christ's second coming. The more you splay words without wisdom, the more it's going to get you into trouble.

Address what I said about the reasons for the wars such as Gog and MaGog comming ffor a spoil yet China atttacking due to Israel's morals and the diverse agendas for these battles, yet the battle of Armageddon is of one agenda... for Satan to gain dominion over the Jews by forcing a Mark on them that there is a world-wide monetary system - one agenda for that war - Satan's.

How is it that Armageddon is shown happening on the final 7th Vial when Christ returns (per Rev.16:15 forward), and NOT prior to His return?

Sounds like you're on the Pre-Trib Rapture theories, for they do believe Armageddon is an event set for the tribulation time before Christ's coming, even though that idea is against God's Word.

 

[tgwprophet]

I stated this wrong " You seek out the word definition and grammar and I seek out the wisdom in God's Word and you think you can defeat me in a debate, or find greater truth and understanding? Wisdom is the path to discover truth not grammar and word definition. "

It should say; wisdom is greater than grammar and word definition in understanding God's Word. Thiis word grammar and definition thing is why the people did not recognize the birth of Jesus... and it was three WISE men that did. Funny most don't recognize this today.

Veteran, you are concluding that I link the two hundred thousand thousand to the Ezekiel prophecy and I most certainly do not. You cannot tie them together because YOU want to then say I claim that.

And I have always stated I do NOT believe in any pre-trib rapture.

you wrote: " How is it that Armageddon is shown happening on the final 7th Vial when Christ returns (per Rev.16:15 forward), and NOT prior to His return? "

Exactly how does that pertain to destruction of what I wrote? You side-stepped the issue and the reasoning. I gave reasoning why these battles are different than the one at Armageddon you proved nothing in trying to re-link them to Armageddon. I told of the reasons for the attacks and why they each have their own personal agenda and why Armageddon has its own agenda and that they are different. You show no qualifier to alter that evidence.

When you claim the battles all happen at once, yet each have their own personal agenda you must be in error. One attacks due to the morals of Israel another wants a spoil and another wants the land... The one that wants the land... also wants the resourses..or the spoil. the one that wants the spoil... also must want the resourses... the one attacking due to morals...yet has no morals themselves, they too want the spoil...the resourses... so these would all be fighting themselves. UNLESS these battles take place at different times and not at Armageddon... Build a working model.. your model does not work. When one considers that these batles are not at the same time and are failures and that these failures is what gives the Beast the ability to unite them for a final battle... the battle of Armageddon.... then it works.

I hope you had a wonderful Christmas Veteran

You wrote: " Sounds like you're on the Pre-Trib Rapture theories, for they do believe Armageddon is an event set for the tribulation time before Christ's coming, even though that idea is against God's Word. "

Armageddon is the FINAL battle at the end of Tribulation, at the return of Jesus - when the Jews finally accept him as their Lord and Saviour. That is my stance and it will remain my stance. I am not sure how you feel differently.



Veteran wrote: " Here's another modern example. The journalist Jerome Corsi through the Freedom of Information Act got information released about the proposed Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America, which is the masked name for an American Union like the EU. He revealed whole government departments assigned to work the plan behind the scenes with workers involved that the American people had no clue about, nor were they elected by any Constitutional authority. Just by Corsi getting that info out some in Congress and Senate became more informed, for a lot of them didn't even know about it. This is how secret certain peoples in government today are doing things behind our backs. And it's almost like they dare the American people to do something about it. "

Vet, I never heard anything about that.

Maybe i should get my amateur radio license back again. I am certain if not now later all phones will be screened, porbably through computers and so the only real way to spread intel would be through cb radio and ham radio. This was the reason I got a ham license way back in 1993. See Moses went to the mountain top (i know) and I would go there to, but to put up an antenna array....

I can viably see that radio could still be the most effective form of communications during the coming events.

 

[veteran]

I stated this wrong " You seek out the word definition and grammar and I seek out the wisdom in God's Word and you think you can defeat me in a debate, or find greater truth and understanding? Wisdom is the path to discover truth not grammar and word definition. "

It should say; wisdom is greater than grammar and word definition in understanding God's Word. Thiis word grammar and definition thing is why the people did not recognize the birth of Jesus... and it was three WISE men that did. Funny most don't recognize this today.

Regardless of what you think about me, I'm not here to simply defeat people in debate. You're actually expressing a lawyer's viewpoint, and I certainly do not adhere to any such thinking as that.

Wisdom is about discernment, and it comes by understanding from our Heavenly Father, not by wining challenges in a debate club.

Veteran, you are concluding that I link the two hundred thousand thousand to the Ezekiel prophecy and I most certainly do not. You cannot tie them together because YOU want to then say I claim that.

I do NOT claim you make any such link; instead you've declared you are against association of the battle of Armageddon with the Ezekiel 38 & 39 Scripture. The problem is you're wrongly associating the events of Rev.9 with some literal war idea that's to occur during the tribulation time prior to Christ's return, a la Hal Lindsey. The event of Armageddon as some all-out nuclear war is what the Hal Lindsey and Pre-trib crowd are expecting, which is a trumped up idea they use in support of their false Pre-Trib Rapture theory, a scare tactic.

You said: "Armageddon however is an attack to instill the Beasts Mark in the Jews that Satan can possess them. All the pre-Armagesson attacks Godd shows shy they occur... that is because they are individul attacks, and attacks that fail. There is but one reason for the campaign that is Arrmagesson... for Satan to gain control over the Jews."

That thinking is placing the event of Armageddon prior to the 7th Vial, when Rev.16 clearly reveals the Armageddon event is a one-time world-wide event to occur on the day of Christ's coming.

And I have always stated I do NOT believe in any pre-trib rapture.

Maybe you ought to re-think what you've believed about the Armageddon event then, because what you said aligns you well with Hal Lindsey's view on it, and he is a writer for the Pre-trib Rapture school.

you wrote: " How is it that Armageddon is shown happening on the final 7th Vial when Christ returns (per Rev.16:15 forward), and NOT prior to His return? "

Exactly how does that pertain to destruction of what I wrote? You side-stepped the issue and the reasoning. I gave reasoning why these battles are different than the one at Armageddon you proved nothing in trying to re-link them to Armageddon. I told of the reasons for the attacks and why they each have their own personal agenda and why Armageddon has its own agenda and that they are different. You show no qualifier to alter that evidence.

I've side-stepped nothing brother. Even within that above paragraph you reveal confusion about the event of Armageddon per the Rev.16 chapter. You can claim it's different than what the Scripture states all day long, but it still won't make your personal view about there fit.

When you claim the battles all happen at once, yet each have their own personal agenda you must be in error. One attacks due to the morals of Israel another wants a spoil and another wants the land... The one that wants the land... also wants the resourses..or the spoil. the one that wants the spoil... also must want the resourses... the one attacking due to morals...yet has no morals themselves, they too want the spoil...the resourses... so these would all be fighting themselves. UNLESS these battles take place at different times and not at Armageddon... Build a working model.. your model does not work. When one considers that these batles are not at the same time and are failures and that these failures is what gives the Beast the ability to unite them for a final battle... the battle of Armageddon.... then it works.

The Armageddon event, a singular battle, happens at specific time on the day of Christ's coming, on the 7th Vial specifically per Rev.16.

Rev 16:16-17
16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
(KJV)

There's seveal Old Testament Scriptures which align with that event on the last day of this world, like Joel 3:11 forward, Zech.14:2-3, Ezekiel 39, Zephaniah 3:8, and they all point to the events of the 7th Vial and Rev.19:17-21, i.e. the events to occur on "the day of the Lord".

So you're not really arguing with me, you're arguing against many written Scriptures in God's Word about that singular event on the last day of this world. It is not many battles, it is one singular battle that Christ fights at His coming. That's why the Rev.16:16 verse says He will gather Satan's host together on that final day of this world.

I hope you had a wonderful Christmas Veteran

I hope you did too brother.

You wrote: " Sounds like you're on the Pre-Trib Rapture theories, for they do believe Armageddon is an event set for the tribulation time before Christ's coming, even though that idea is against God's Word. "

Armageddon is the FINAL battle at the end of Tribulation, at the return of Jesus - when the Jews finally accept him as their Lord and Saviour. That is my stance and it will remain my stance. I am not sure how you feel differently.

That is the idea which Rev.16, Rev.19, and Ezekiel 38 & 39 reveals. But it's not really what you've said before. Check your previous statements.

Veteran wrote: " Here's another modern example. The journalist Jerome Corsi through the Freedom of Information Act got information released about the proposed Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America, which is the masked name for an American Union like the EU. He revealed whole government departments assigned to work the plan behind the scenes with workers involved that the American people had no clue about, nor were they elected by any Constitutional authority. Just by Corsi getting that info out some in Congress and Senate became more informed, for a lot of them didn't even know about it. This is how secret certain peoples in government today are doing things behind our backs. And it's almost like they dare the American people to do something about it. "

Vet, I never heard anything about that.

Maybe i should get my amateur radio license back again. I am certain if not now later all phones will be screened, porbably through computers and so the only real way to spread intel would be through cb radio and ham radio. This was the reason I got a ham license way back in 1993. See Moses went to the mountain top (i know) and I would go there to, but to put up an antenna array....

I can viably see that radio could still be the most effective form of communications during the coming events.

Jerome Corsi is a journalist, a good one, and he revealed a lot of that on the Worldnetdaily news website.

 

[tgwprophet]

terry, on 29 Dec 2012 - 01:35, said:
You wrote: " Sounds like you're on the Pre-Trib Rapture theories, for they do believe Armageddon is an event set for the tribulation time before Christ's coming, even though that idea is against God's Word. "

Armageddon is the FINAL battle at the end of Tribulation, at the return of Jesus - when the Jews finally accept him as their Lord and Saviour. That is my stance and it will remain my stance. I am not sure how you feel differently.

Veteran wrote: " That is the idea which Rev.16, Rev.19, and Ezekiel 38 & 39 reveals. But it's not really what you've said before. Check your previous statements. "

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I find with the severe amount of sleep deprivation I endure as well as chronic pain, I can easily write what I think or believe but mis-use grammar and it comes out wrong. ( I was hit head-on by a car in 1979, I was on a motorcycle and the impact speed was over 135 MPH - he was speeding not me - so this humpty dumpty had alot of operations to undergo to get put back together - during the time of those operations my femur with infection ( it was complete break and like rubber from infection ) healed in 2 weeks what the doc said would take at least 2 years.) Not much I can do about that except clarify later in a different manner. My stance has always been as stated above and for many other reasons... I expect Gog and MaGog to fulfill prophecy before Tribulation begins.

 

[veteran]

terry, on 29 Dec 2012 - 01:35, said:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I find with the severe amount of sleep deprivation I endure as well as chronic pain, I can easily write what I think or believe but mis-use grammar and it comes out wrong. ( I was hit head-on by a car in 1979, I was on a motorcycle and the impact speed was over 135 MPH - he was speeding not me - so this humpty dumpty had alot of operations to undergo to get put back together - during the time of those operations my femur with infection ( it was complete break and like rubber from infection ) healed in 2 weeks what the doc said would take at least 2 years.) Not much I can do about that except clarify later in a different manner. My stance has always been as stated above and for many other reasons... I expect Gog and MaGog to fulfill prophecy before Tribulation begins.

No problem concerning how you write, I'm willing to be patient.

I too agree that the battle of Armageddon occurs on the final day of this world, with the event of Christ's second coming on "the day of the Lord".

What I do not agree with... is that the Hamongog result of Ezekiel 38 & 39 is about some battle prior to Christ's return.

 

[michaelvpardo]

No, I have not read any of his books. I do not read books about the end time events. God's Word is enough. But I do pay attention to history, and do read historical works, primary sources if I can find them. I don't go trusting books put out by the system, like Time-Life books, etc. Most books of history you find at the major bookstore outlets today like Books-A-Million, Barnes & Noble, etc., push 'modern' Revisionist history, pretty much the 'globalist' political correctness thinking.

It might be difficult to believe what I'm going say with the following, but those who stay in God's Word and pay attention to modern event reading between the lines, and researching primary source history will eventually discover there's a lot of truth to the following. God openly reveals future events to us before they happen (Isa.42:9); not just through His Word only, but through events happening in the world, even by the mouths of some involved.

The Georgetown history professor Carrol Quigley is one such example of this. He was Bill Clinton's history professor, and Clinton endorsed him. Quigley in his 1960's work Tragedy And Hope admitted he was an 'insider' allied with what he termed "the establishment". He claimed he was allowed to research the 'secret records' of the establishment for two years. By that he admitted the operation of a type of shadow government operating behind the scenes. He openly revealed it even, giving names of the movement and the names of various people behind, both in the U.S. and in Great Britain. He openly admitted their plans for a one-world socialist government. Many other U.S. statesmen of past history have also admitted that plan, even going back to the 1900's in the U.S.

The reason why so many are ignorant about all that is because of the type of works one must learn to wade through in order to find those revealing it publically through their speeches, books like Quigley's, etc. Most simply do not care to take time to wade through that kind of information, which for many is too difficult a read in the first place. But is it available? Yes. Lot of those working for the movement just cannot keep their mouth shut. It's because of their false pumped up pride, or because of God's influencing, you decide. In 1966 I think it was, Quigley sued his book publishers because they quit printing his work Tragedy And Hope. Only then did he discover why they quit printing it. He found out the printers destroyed the printing plates even. In final Quigley stated that his book must have said some things "the establishment" did not want known. Too late, his book has gone through many underground printings.

So yes to the fact that if a book comes out on the shelves today that is highly publized and marketed as truth, one needs to take that with a grain of salt. The way still many are fooled with those kind of books is because just like the Luke 4 example when Satan quoted Scripture 'almost' perfectly to our Lord Jesus, there was a simple short phrase Satan added to it that changed its whole meaning. Thus the propagandists well understand they must use 'some' of the truth along with their propaganda falsehoods. If one does not know the difference then they are apt to swallow the lies along with it and even become fully swayed it's all truth. The main counter to that working today is still the staying in God's Word line upon line.

Here's another modern example. The journalist Jerome Corsi through the Freedom of Information Act got information released about the proposed Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America, which is the masked name for an American Union like the EU. He revealed whole government departments assigned to work the plan behind the scenes with workers involved that the American people had no clue about, nor were they elected by any Constitutional authority. Just by Corsi getting that info out some in Congress and Senate became more informed, for a lot of them didn't even know about it. This is how secret certain peoples in government today are doing things behind our backs. And it's almost like they dare the American people to do something about it.

Sounds about right. I tend to restrict most of my reading these days to the scriptures, but I've read them for about as long as I've been able to read. I wasn't born again until I was 39 years old, and that's when my eyes were opened to the spiritual things in the scripture, but when I was younger I read all sorts of things about mysticism, spiritualism, sorcery and witchcraft, eastern religions, and just about anything that dealt with spiritual matters. I think that this is how I learned that the most convincing lies are laced with bits and pieces of truth which tend to lend credibility to them. I think that I also gained some insight into the thinking of Charles Darwin and modern "evolutionists" as well, since his hypothesis was just a rehash of ancient nature worship veiled in scientific jargon and legitimized by evidences provided by a community determined to prove that God doesn't exist. I've also realized that whatever my understanding of something may be, it will always be colored by the accumulated experiences of my life. I suppose that this is why we have the admonition to not lean upon our own understanding. Our understanding isn't the critical thing, but our faith in Him who died for us is. Some years ago I would have a friend come over to share meals with my wife and I, after which I would read scripture and attempt to explain its meaning. This friend, named John, suffered an accident at birth and had been deprived of oxygen by a strangled umbilical cord. He'll never have the capacity to comprehend everything that we do, yet he believes in his Lord Jesus Christ and I've been a witness to wonderful behavioral changes in his life from the times I'd first noticed him wondering about the streets. Our Lord has been so gracious that even a child has the capacity to believe and receive Him. With a greater capacity for reason also seems to come a greater capacity for evil imaginings, but His grace is such that He keeps us in spite of our own foolishness. Even so, wisdom is ours for the asking. Thanks for taking the time to respond, and I hope that the Lord blesses your time of worship with new graces and new wisdom for a new year ahead.

 

[veteran]

Sounds about right. I tend to restrict most of my reading these days to the scriptures, but I've read them for about as long as I've been able to read. I wasn't born again until I was 39 years old, and that's when my eyes were opened to the spiritual things in the scripture, but when I was younger I read all sorts of things about mysticism, spiritualism, sorcery and witchcraft, eastern religions, and just about anything that dealt with spiritual matters. I think that this is how I learned that the most convincing lies are laced with bits and pieces of truth which tend to lend credibility to them. I think that I also gained some insight into the thinking of Charles Darwin and modern "evolutionists" as well, since his hypothesis was just a rehash of ancient nature worship veiled in scientific jargon and legitimized by evidences provided by a community determined to prove that God doesn't exist. I've also realized that whatever my understanding of something may be, it will always be colored by the accumulated experiences of my life. I suppose that this is why we have the admonition to not lean upon our own understanding. Our understanding isn't the critical thing, but our faith in Him who died for us is. Some years ago I would have a friend come over to share meals with my wife and I, after which I would read scripture and attempt to explain its meaning. This friend, named John, suffered an accident at birth and had been deprived of oxygen by a strangled umbilical cord. He'll never have the capacity to comprehend everything that we do, yet he believes in his Lord Jesus Christ and I've been a witness to wonderful behavioral changes in his life from the times I'd first noticed him wondering about the streets. Our Lord has been so gracious that even a child has the capacity to believe and receive Him. With a greater capacity for reason also seems to come a greater capacity for evil imaginings, but His grace is such that He keeps us in spite of our own foolishness. Even so, wisdom is ours for the asking. Thanks for taking the time to respond, and I hope that the Lord blesses your time of worship with new graces and new wisdom for a new year ahead.

You've almost to a tee explaining the same experiences I've had. I wasn't baptized in Christ until age 40.

That idea about little bits and pieces of untruth added to truth is spot on, for that's what Satan and his host have been doing all along in this world.

 

[tgwprophet]

Veteran wrote: " Regardless of what you think about me, I'm not here to simply defeat people in debate. You're actually expressing a lawyer's viewpoint, and I certainly do not adhere to any such thinking as that. "

I should address this... Veteran what I think about you is this... You are a constructive adversary of whom I have the pleasure of getting to know, our heated discussions have never altered that perspective nor respect I have for you. There are many others here I hold the same esteem for as well. And so, as our heated postings continue my personal feeling toward my brothern posters will reamin at its highest level - whether I think the post was right, wrong, too heated or too cold. I welcome these debates and it does not affect my "feelings" toward my brothers. Its not like I don;t claim some things that seem ... well.... like lunacy now huh. But in due time my brothers and sisters.
I recognize how harsh words can penatrate one's soul even when it is written words that come do harsh, but spoken words with the emotion can make them realized with no harsh intent.

Now that is my tail and I am waggin' it.

 

[veteran]

Veteran wrote: " Regardless of what you think about me, I'm not here to simply defeat people in debate. You're actually expressing a lawyer's viewpoint, and I certainly do not adhere to any such thinking as that. "

I should address this... Veteran what I think about you is this... You are a constructive adversary of whom I have the pleasure of getting to know, our heated discussions have never altered that perspective nor respect I have for you. There are many others here I hold the same esteem for as well. And so, as our heated postings continue my personal feeling toward my brothern posters will reamin at its highest level - whether I think the post was right, wrong, too heated or too cold. I welcome these debates and it does not affect my "feelings" toward my brothers. Its not like I don;t claim some things that seem ... well.... like lunacy now huh. But in due time my brothers and sisters.
I recognize how harsh words can penatrate one's soul even when it is written words that come do harsh, but spoken words with the emotion can make them realized with no harsh intent.

Now that is my tail and I am waggin' it.

I don't claim to be perfect. But if one has a calling from The LORD, when staying in His Word as written and imparting His Messages, that is never... going to be popular with this world.

So one given to do that has to decide early on whether they intend to listen to Christ Jesus in His Word of Truth or to the ways of men and popularity. With one who stays in His Word imparting His Message, does that make the one teaching or preaching the adversary for those against it, or is it Christ as their adversary? At what point does the hearer know whether the Message is from the preacher/teacher giving it, or directly from Christ Himself within His Holy Writ?