The Virgin Birth

[soul man]

Christian identity has been lost in many of the realms of Christianity. One of the biggest being 'the virgin birth.' We are in the season of celebration of our saviors birth. Thank God for all the celebration and festive traditions we keep to celebrate the virgin birth of our savior. We can say what we will (I do at times - trying not to label) about certain groups I'll call them. But the virgin birth is as big in scripture as any because we see Jesus taking on his humanity. Where God became man! 100% God, as well as 100% man. God/with us!

So any certain group that can have the virgin birth, even if they have alot of extras added to what they say, and do - should be recognized. Why would we do such a thing? because it keeps the side of God - and humanity in contact. And because the virgin birth is slowly being lost to religion. Without the virgin birth - you just have a God that is not angry with how the world is going and he will deal with it. And that is their message! No hope, like the cross never existed. That is the Old Testament veiw of creator God; but with the virgin birth we see the fatherhood of God. Two extremes coming from the same person. And he is still creator God, but nolonger has to act only in that capacity.

So what happens when believers read scripture from the angry Old Testament God point of view. They cannot understand scripture as it is intended to be understood. If they are not read and put together as they should. Righly divided..the virgin birth..and so many aspects of the written word of God..not properly put together - men come up with another religion, and another philosophy on how it all should work. The thing about man;

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. - Romans 3:4.

Every man a lier, let God is true. What does that mean..does it mean we are all going around lieing..no but it means we are easily deceived by the knowledge we have, and will exact that knowledge. That deceiving mind of 'the knowledge of good and evil.' Working scripture with a mind that is deceptive.

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? - Jeremiah 17:9.

Look at the heart, the heart of humanity - at least the heart they were born with. Now at the moment you were saved there was no miracle for your heart..that heart has to change. The heart of man has to change and the world and the religious world is a reminder to believers. You have to change what you came into this world with. When you look at the world, if you are no different in mind you will have to judge that - if mind change does not come. For believers, they should keep in mind scripture memory is good but scripture memory is not mind renewal. Anyone can quote scripture. You hear it everyday - determined in themselves to prove the scriptures in their religion. It has been an on going battle since time began.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Look at the heart, the heart of humanity - at least the heart they were born with. Now at the moment you were saved there was no miracle for your heart..that heart has to change. The heart of man has to change and the world and the religious world is a reminder to believers. You have to change what you came into this world with. When you look at the world, if you are no different in mind you will have to judge that - if mind change does not come. For believers, they should keep in mind scripture memory is good but scripture memory is not mind renewal. Anyone can quote scripture. You hear it everyday - determined in themselves to prove the scriptures in their religion. It has been an on going battle since time began.

The heart does change- instantly. when we are saved, we are born again and made a new creature in Christ. what we spend the rest of our lives changing is the way we think (Romans 12) We unlearn the old ways and learn the new ways! And the only reason we can unlearn the old ways is that we were given a heart that seeks after God.

We are given teh mind of Christ all at once- not in stages. But God does not empty us of all the old- we learn the new and replace th eold!

Remember it is God who works in us both to desire and to do His Good will.

 

[MatthewG]

The heart does change- instantly. when we are saved, we are born again and made a new creature in Christ. what we spend the rest of our lives changing is the way we think (Romans 12) We unlearn the old ways and learn the new ways! And the only reason we can unlearn the old ways is that we were given a heart that seeks after God.

We are given teh mind of Christ all at once- not in stages. But God does not empty us of all the old- we learn the new and replace th eold!

Remember it is God who works in us both to desire and to do His Good will.

Amen brother

 

[MatthewG]

It’s always God who does the work, @soulman. We do put in the effort of seeking diligently (Hebrews 11:6) and God is a rewarder of Good gifts.

““This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:16-18‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Gods I wills.

 

[Daniel Veler]

Christian identity has been lost in many of the realms of Christianity. One of the biggest being 'the virgin birth.' We are in the season of celebration of our saviors birth. Thank God for all the celebration and festive traditions we keep to celebrate the virgin birth of our savior. We can say what we will (I do at times - trying not to label) about certain groups I'll call them. But the virgin birth is as big in scripture as any because we see Jesus taking on his humanity. Where God became man! 100% God, as well as 100% man. God/with us!

So any certain group that can have the virgin birth, even if they have alot of extras added to what they say, and do - should be recognized. Why would we do such a thing? because it keeps the side of God - and humanity in contact. And because the virgin birth is slowly being lost to religion. Without the virgin birth - you just have a God that is not angry with how the world is going and he will deal with it. And that is their message! No hope, like the cross never existed. That is the Old Testament veiw of creator God; but with the virgin birth we see the fatherhood of God. Two extremes coming from the same person. And he is still creator God, but nolonger has to act only in that capacity.

So what happens when believers read scripture from the angry Old Testament God point of view. They cannot understand scripture as it is intended to be understood. If they are not read and put together as they should. Righly divided..the virgin birth..and so many aspects of the written word of God..not properly put together - men come up with another religion, and another philosophy on how it all should work. The thing about man;

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. - Romans 3:4.

Every man a lier, let God is true. What does that mean..does it mean we are all going around lieing..no but it means we are easily deceived by the knowledge we have, and will exact that knowledge. That deceiving mind of 'the knowledge of good and evil.' Working scripture with a mind that is deceptive.

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? - Jeremiah 17:9.

Look at the heart, the heart of humanity - at least the heart they were born with. Now at the moment you were saved there was no miracle for your heart..that heart has to change. The heart of man has to change and the world and the religious world is a reminder to believers. You have to change what you came into this world with. When you look at the world, if you are no different in mind you will have to judge that - if mind change does not come. For believers, they should keep in mind scripture memory is good but scripture memory is not mind renewal. Anyone can quote scripture. You hear it everyday - determined in themselves to prove the scriptures in their religion. It has been an on going battle since time began.

If you understand what Christ my Father and I are one, he is in me and I in him. Jesus then shows us that we are in him and he is in us making us one with him. If you truly understood these things then you would know what Christ meant.

 

[theefaith]

The heart does change- instantly. when we are saved, we are born again and made a new creature in Christ. what we spend the rest of our lives changing is the way we think (Romans 12) We unlearn the old ways and learn the new ways! And the only reason we can unlearn the old ways is that we were given a heart that seeks after God.

We are given teh mind of Christ all at once- not in stages. But God does not empty us of all the old- we learn the new and replace th eold!

Remember it is God who works in us both to desire and to do His Good will.

not saved only born again and new creation in Christ thru the grace of God in baptism

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

not saved until the end matt 24:13

 

[Ronald Nolette]

not saved only born again and new creation in Christ thru the grace of God in baptism

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

not saved until the end matt 24:13

And you rpoint?

 

[Bruce Atkinson]

not saved only born again and new creation in Christ thru the grace of God in baptism

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

There you go, again, taking scripture out of context. That seems to be a 'way of life' for Catholics, in my opinion.

Ezekel 36:22-28 (KJV)
22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

For starters, as can be seen from the full context, the 'sprinkle clean water', etc, is a prophecy TO ISRAEL...not Gentiles! I know that some on this board believe that 'the church' replaced Israel, but nothing could be further from the truth. If that were true, then how is it Israel is back in a portion of the land God deeded to them in Deuteronomy 29? Verse 24 prophesied exactly what has been happening in the nation of Israel since being reestablished in their land in 1948. Verse 28 confirms it. So, is 'the church' going to dwell evermore in Israel?

not saved until the end matt 24:13

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. (KJV)

From what I've learned through the years, the Catholic church expects to be here during the 7 years tribulation spoken of in Matthew 24. The problem with that is the Jesus is talking to Jews, not Gentiles. So, is it safe to say you have a bunker somewhere in the middle of nowhere to survive those 7 years and be thus saved from destruction?

Your expectation of being saved completely disregards what's written in the New Testament after the Gospel of John, especially Pauls' epistles. Here's a couple of verses to consider:

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Hint: Mary is NOT the name under heaven!

Romans 5:8-11 (KJV)
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Saved from His wrath (the tribulation) in verse 9 above!

1Corinthians 15:1-4 (KJV)
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Believe The Gospel and be saved. Plain and simple!

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

There is nothing WE can DO to be saved. It's faith alone!

 

[MatthewG]

I never really though about the virgin birth all that much @soul man . I’ve just accepted it by faith that it was foretold to come about by the prophets of Old by the LORD and accept it. I can not explain it other than it was a miracle brought forth by God that the Son of Man, Son of God - The God - Man Jesus Christ our Lord was born whom has now become the Lord God Almighty as he was in the beginning as the Word of God.

 

[soul man]

The heart does change- instantly. when we are saved, we are born again and made a new creature in Christ. what we spend the rest of our lives changing is the way we think (Romans 12) We unlearn the old ways and learn the new ways! And the only reason we can unlearn the old ways is that we were given a heart that seeks after God.

We are given teh mind of Christ all at once- not in stages. But God does not empty us of all the old- we learn the new and replace th eold!

Remember it is God who works in us both to desire and to do His Good will.

When you say changed instantly - is that in spirit or soul, or both? What are you calling the heart? Can you explain what heart is?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What do you mean when you said should be recognized?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

When you say changed instantly - is that in spirit or soul, or both? What are you calling the heart? Can you explain what heart is?

Well when we are saved, our spirit which was dead is now made alive! it is our spirit that communicates or fellowships with God. Teh unsaved man has a dead spirit which is why they cannot fellowship with god.

So the instantaneous change is the quickening of eh spirit and the new man also indwells the soul(heart).

The heart is the soul of man which is the center of what makes us--us! It is where we think, decide, and command to act!

 

[Bruce Atkinson]

When you say changed instantly - is that in spirit or soul, or both? What are you calling the heart? Can you explain what heart is?

As Ronald Nolette said above, we are instantly changed the moment we get saved. It's the difference between 'head knowledge' and 'heart knowledge'. Romans 10:9-10 clearly states this:

Romans 10:9-10 (KJV)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

It's NOT following a bunch of steps, repeating some prayer or prayers, or doing a bunch of good things (how do you know you've done enough?), etc. It's what you truly believe in your heart, stronger than anything else in this world, even that the Sun will come up in the morning! It's KNOWING that the Holy Spirit, has permanently taken up residence in my heart.

So what happened to me 23+ years ago when I was saved? I instantly lost all desire to watch pornography and tossed my collection of tapes in the dumpster when I got home. I immediately stopped swearing, although a couple words 'snuck out' the first week or so when I got mad (I have a very quick temper). Those that knew me before I was saved know that I was a worthless dirtbag. About the only thing 'good' I did was regulary answer telephones at the local PBS station and regularly donated to the station. So it clearly was not the result of my good 'works' of any kind.

Other things, God decided to change within me slowly. And it's still a 'work in progress'. Among the changes were wiping out my desire for alcohol a couple weeks after I was saved. He also changed what I 'wanted' to do, from helping out at church washing dishes after Sunday School to picking up men at the Christian-led Rescue Mission and bringing them to church every Sunday. I started doing that about 6 months after I was saved and have been doing it every Sunday ever since except for 1 Sunday/year while I'm on vacation, and I switch cars with another man so he can pick them up in my stead. I've driven only Chrysler Corporation mini-vans since 1988, so I can always handle a fair number of men. In those years, there's 14-15 of those men that graduated the 12-15 month mission rehabilitation and Bible study after being saved while they were at the Mission. I also 'took on' the casette tape ministry of producing copies of each Sundays' message shortly before they start leaving! It evolved to CDs about 2006 and in a recent check of my database of all tapes and CDs ever made at church (I have the entire library of tapes and the CDs are on my hard drive), I've created over 30,000 CDs at no cost to the church! God got me building/upgrading/repairing PCs as well for my church family...all done at no charge. God has used the gifts He as given me and put them to the best use serving HIM. I'm not rich by any means. But God has provided the finances for my serving HIM!

Among other things, I can personally testify of numerous prayers that God answered...some were answered instantly like getting a heavy dresser up a twisting 1890s staircase to a friends' 2nd floor apartment. Other times, I've prayed that God give my Catholic ex wife (I left her 29 years ago) a 'kick in the pants' and He did a month or so later! It still didn't bring her to Gods' Word. He answered another of my prayers for her a month ago that has to be her wake up call. Other recently answered prayers in 2021 include no pain, ever, from prostate 'roto rooter' surgery (TURP) as well as 44 radiation treatments for prostate cancer. Being on the 'prayer chain' at church does wonders! They were praying for minimal side effects from both and those prayers were clearly answered! I'm now cancer free. I encountered problems refinancing my house this March and after 2 months of emails and phone calls to the lender, it finally got approved at 2.25%! I was also forced to replace my old car and had to finance a car for the first time in my life. God not only made that happen, but the very morning I was on the way out the door (using a friends' car) to make a deal on the car I wanted, a church member had unexpectedly left a bank check for $1100 in my door to use as a down payment! More answered prayers!

So what's the difference between being saved and unsaved? My desires for ungodly things are being reduced to near zero, and serving Him is my highest priority. It's not like I actively sought out the ministries I'm in. They were essentially 'dropped on me' or while on a Missions trip to a church in Monterrey Mexico in 2000, He made it very clear to me what HE wanted me to do. And I have. As Jesus said...

Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. (KJV)

It's a JOY to serve HIM!

My avatar is the 'symbol' of what I ask of the unsaved on this forum and elsewhere: "Do you feel lucky?" If what you do for God is 'work', it's not a joy, or a pain in the butt, or God doesn't supply the means, time or talent to do what you're doing, and prayers aren't obviously being regularly answered, "You gotta ask yourself..." Just HOW do you plan to get to Heaven and spend eternity with Him?

 

[Bruce Atkinson]

Getting to the original intent of this thread...

Old Testament prophecy was HAD to be fulfilled as part of the indisputable proof that Jesus WAS the promised Messiah - But Israel simply refused to believe it -

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. (KJV)

Jesus even stated that He came to fulfill all that was written about him (OT prophecy) - I should add that he did everything according to the Mosaic Law -

Matthew 5:17-18 (KJV)
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

And, of course, when He said 'it is finished', he was not only referring to His fulfillment of all prophecy about Him, but also that He alone was the only 100% blemish free Lamb supplied by God for sin. No more was it necessary to sacrifice animals to 'cover' their sins. God alone supplied the sacrifice exactly has He supplied Abraham when Isaac was to be sacrificed:

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (KJV)

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. (KJV)

Genesis 22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. (KJV)

 

[theefaith]

And you rpoint?

he claimed to be saved?


matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!

 

[theefaith]

There you go, again, taking scripture out of context. That seems to be a 'way of life' for Catholics, in my opinion.

Out of context makes you catholic
Context makes you Protestant???

Ezekel 36:22-28 (KJV)
22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

For starters, as can be seen from the full context, the 'sprinkle clean water', etc, is a prophecy TO ISRAEL...not Gentiles! I know that some on this board believe that 'the church' replaced Israel, but nothing could be further from the truth. If that were true, then how is it Israel is back in a portion of the land God deeded to them in Deuteronomy 29? Verse 24 prophesied exactly what has been happening in the nation of Israel since being reestablished in their land in 1948. Verse 28 confirms it. So, is 'the church' going to dwell evermore in Israel?

Prophecy does not wash away sins baptism does
And it refers to the new covenant church new Israel future Israel holy mother church

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. (KJV)

From what I've learned through the years, the Catholic church expects to be here during the 7 years tribulation spoken of in Matthew 24. The problem with that is the Jesus is talking to Jews, not Gentiles. So, is it safe to say you have a bunker somewhere in the middle of nowhere to survive those 7 years and be thus saved from destruction?

Your expectation of being saved completely disregards what's written in the New Testament after the Gospel of John, especially Pauls' epistles. Here's a couple of verses to consider:

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Hint: Mary is NOT the name under heaven!

Romans 5:8-11 (KJV)
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Saved from His wrath (the tribulation) in verse 9 above!

1Corinthians 15:1-4 (KJV)
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Believe The Gospel and be saved. Plain and simple!

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

There is nothing WE can DO to be saved. It's faith alone!

you have to choose (volition) to believe???
Eph 2 refers to baptism!

 

[soul man]

Well when we are saved, our spirit which was dead is now made alive! it is our spirit that communicates or fellowships with God. Teh unsaved man has a dead spirit which is why they cannot fellowship with god.

So the instantaneous change is the quickening of eh spirit and the new man also indwells the soul(heart).

The heart is the soul of man which is the center of what makes us--us! It is where we think, decide, and command to act!

I still don't see soul intantly changed, is that what you were saying. Some change but no where near a renewed mind at the new birth.

 

[soul man]

Getting to the original intent of this thread...

Old Testament prophecy was HAD to be fulfilled as part of the indisputable proof that Jesus WAS the promised Messiah - But Israel simply refused to believe it -

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. (KJV)

Jesus even stated that He came to fulfill all that was written about him (OT prophecy) - I should add that he did everything according to the Mosaic Law -

Matthew 5:17-18 (KJV)
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

And, of course, when He said 'it is finished', he was not only referring to His fulfillment of all prophecy about Him, but also that He alone was the only 100% blemish free Lamb supplied by God for sin. No more was it necessary to sacrifice animals to 'cover' their sins. God alone supplied the sacrifice exactly has He supplied Abraham when Isaac was to be sacrificed:

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (KJV)

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. (KJV)

Genesis 22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. (KJV)

Good word!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

he claimed to be saved?


matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!

Well I agree by faith alone is impossible- as Paul said in Ephesians:

Ephesians 2:8-10
King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

to say we need works to be saved, stay saved or maintain our salvation is simply preaching another gospel.

John 6:28-29
King James Version

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 3:36
King James Version

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

I am sorry that you have bought Satans biggest lie, namely that you in and of your self must do something to maintain your salvation.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I still don't see soul intantly changed, is that what you were saying. Some change but no where near a renewed mind at the new birth.

Well it is a paradoxical thing Scripture says. We are made a new creature in christ and the old man (the flesh or human nature) is rendered dead. Yet at the same time we still keep all of our old patterns of thinking until we learn the new form HIs Word to replace the old.