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The Watchtower Society At Our Doors

Discussion in 'Christian Newbies' started by Webers_Home, Sep 22, 2018.

  1. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    SOLOMON vs JESUS

    2Tim 3:16 . . All scripture is inspired of God

    Followers of Islam claim that the entirety of the Koran was given to
    Muhammad word for word via voice dictation; but Christians dare not make
    the same claim for the Old Testament, viz: though it's all inspired, it was not
    all given word for word via voice dictation.

    Bible students are often baffled as to why Solomon's remarks in the book of
    Ecclesiastes sometimes contradict Jesus' teachings in the New Testament.
    Well; the answer to that is actually pretty simple.

    Solomon wasn't inspired to record his observations from the perspective of
    an enlightened man who's privy to knowledge beyond the scope of empirical
    evidence and human experience; rather, from the perspective of a man
    under the sun; viz: a down to earth thinking man whose perception of reality
    is moderated by what he can see for himself going on around him in the
    physical universe; which of course results in an evaluation of life on earth as
    seen from the earth rather than an evaluation of life on earth as seen from
    heaven.

    In other words: Ecclesiastes is one man's world view-- his personal
    philosophy of life --rather than a book of either history, revelation, or
    prophecy; and it's loaded with pessimism; which is basically a mindset
    inclined to dwell on the negative in human experience rather than the
    positive. For example:

    "You only go around once, so do it with all the gusto you can get!"

    That was a Schlitz beer advertisement some years ago. It's worldly wisdom
    thru and thru rather than heavenly. Compare it to a couple of Solomon's
    remarks:

    Ecc 9:5 . . The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead,
    they are conscious of nothing at all

    Ecc 9:10 . . All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for
    there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol, the place
    to which you are going.

    That wisdom is Schlitz beer wisdom thru and thru.

    Solomon was a very wise man; in point of fact, he was the brightest
    intellectual of his day. But Solomon's knowledge and experience were
    limited. He didn't know everything there is to know, nor had he seen
    everything there is to see, nor been everywhere there is to go.

    Matt 12:42 . .The queen of the south will be raised up in the judgment
    with this generation and will condemn it; because she came from the ends of
    the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, but, look! something more than
    Solomon is here.

    In other words; Jesus' wisdom trumps Solomon's.

    John 1:1-3 . . In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God,
    and the Word was a god. This one was in the beginning with God. All things
    came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing
    came into existence.

    Col 2:3 . . Carefully concealed in him are all the treasures of wisdom and
    of knowledge.

    And Jesus' comes highly recommended too.

    Matt 17:5 . . This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved; listen to
    him.

    So then, when encountering remarks in the book of Ecclesiastes that are out
    of step with Jesus' teachings in the New Testament, my unsolicited spiritual
    counseling is: go with "my Son".

    John 8:12 . . I am the light of the world. He that follows me will by no
    means walk in darkness, but will possess the light of life.
    _
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  2. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    THE ELITE 144,000

    So-called Replacement Theology is just another name for identity theft. Take
    for example the Watchtower Society's interpretation of Rev 7:1-8 wherein is
    listed a specific number of Hebrews taken from every tribe of the sons of
    Israel.

    The Society alleges that those aren't biological sons of Israel; but rather
    "spiritual" sons-- referring of course to the Society's elite cadre of 144,000
    Witnesses who have supposedly undergone a spirit birth as per Christ's
    instruction at John 3:3-8; and the anointing as per 1John 2:26-27.

    The Society's allegation is premised upon its observation that there never
    was a tribe of Joseph; when in reality Joseph is listed as both a son and a
    tribe at Gen 49:2-28, and as a tribe at Ezek 48:31-34. So that portion of the
    Society's reasoning is clearly a false premise.

    The Society's allegation is also premised upon its observation that Ephraim
    and Dan are missing from the list of tribes at Rev 7:4-8. However, what the
    Society's theologians have somehow overlooked in the Old Testament is that
    it doesn't matter whose names are chosen to represent the twelve tribes of
    Israel just so long as there are twelve names. Are there twelve in Rev 7:4
    -8? Yes. Well then that's good enough. I realize that makes no sense but then
    the Lord's apostles were still referred to as "the twelve" even with Judas out
    of the picture. So that premise in the Society's reasoning is spurious too.

    The Society's allegation is also premised upon its reasoning that Levi isn't a
    valid tribe based upon the fact that the Levites are exempt from warfare.
    However, Levi is clearly listed as both a son and a tribe along with Joseph at
    Gen 49:2-28. Levi is also listed as a tribe at Ezek 48:31-34; which is a good
    many years after Num 1:1-54. So that premise is bogus too.

    The Watchtower Society not wanting the 144,000 to be biological Hebrews is
    one thing; but I would just like to know from whence Charles T. Russell's
    and Joseph F. Rutherford's followers got the idea that their people constitute
    the 144,000. That's a pretty serious claim. How do they validate it? I don't
    know; but I can just about guarantee that their explanation is an outlandish
    stretch of the imagination consisting of humanistic reasoning, rationalizing,
    clever sophistry, and semantic double-speak.


    NOTE: According to Rev 14:1-4, the 144,000 are supposed to be all male,
    and none have ever slept with a woman. That, if true, would of course
    disqualify married Witnesses.
    _
     
  3. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    As has been said "Nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care" ♥
     
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  4. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    This really is a great point. If we are sharing our most intimate relationship with an another.......shouldn’t we have already cultivated a close relationship with the person we are sharing with? I don’t share information about my close relationships with strangers because, frankly it is a bit creepy and it cheapens and betrays my relationships.
     
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  5. FatalMoves

    FatalMoves Active Member

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    Those people are always happy. I wonder why they're happy. Are they happy because of what they believe? Say your miserable because of what you believe, should you believe something that makes you happy. But if their beliefs are really really wrong then why are they happy? Does my head in.
     
  6. BrotherIan

    BrotherIan Member

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    lol, yer there happy because its Gods reward for all the remarkable work they do.
    I had two Epiphanys after a ruptured Artery and extremely high troponin levels indicating death,
    no heart damage, have you ever seen Doctors looking bewildered? i have .
    then arriving home i needed support but whom??? no one was there for me.
    then a vehicle drove up my track to home, and J.W found me,
    i told them i was praying to God to send some one.
    Over the next 2 days i had 2 epiphanys right where i had my heart attack,
    in front of my fire place, yes i was praying and amazing things happened
    i grabbed the video camera and recorded.
    i have posted here today, the two videos.
    Thanks To J.W Fellowship, for there unconditional love and God and the Angels that sent them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
    Brotherian.
     
  7. FatalMoves

    FatalMoves Active Member

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    So you're a JW I suppose.
     
  8. BrotherIan

    BrotherIan Member

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    No Sir, was Baptised a Catholic, Though later in life decided to remain Neutral,
    as to mix with all Men.
    though J.W have shown more Love and Compassion
    than any other Religion has, though i never discount a Human for
    what ever they Follow, So long as they follow and try there best to live a Mirror Image
    of Jesus's Teachings. It is Quiet Simple, unfortunately there is a Reverse force,
    that Side tracks many of us from a Spiritual Journey.
    Peace n Love.
    Ian
     
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  9. FatalMoves

    FatalMoves Active Member

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    Okay then.
     
  10. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Welcome, brother.
    Well, that was easy :)
    In Him,
    nancy
     
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  11. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Could that be because there is more scriptural evidence in favour of their understanding than your own more "orthodox" opinion? I would suggest an even better reason for avoiding such a debate with them. Because you are discussing something which is holy, sacred, something only God truly understands and has decided not to share yet with mortal man. Amazing we create formulas and creeds and denounce others on this subject which none of fully understand, and most of us get wrong in the little we pretend to understand.
     
  12. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Christ was a Son before the incarnation. The apostle John went to great pains to prove that Christ Jesus was the Son of God. The only begotten. Both in his gospel, and in the first two of his letters, John repeatedly exalted Christ as God's only Son. Yet not once, unlike the other gospel writers, did he mention Bethlehem...the incarnation...the wise men...the shepherds seeing angels...a stable...manger...or gifts. Nothing. If John was trying to prove Jesus was God's Son why not quote Micah and prove Jesus was born in Bethlehem and by done with it? Set and match. But no. John was not trying to prove Jesus was born a man...He was proving Christ's divinity. His divine heritage as a Son of the Almighty from before creation...and as you correctly say above, because He is from eternity the Son of the Father, then Jesus can be none other than fully divine, 100% deity. It is His Sonship that irrevocably proves His divinity...which unfortunately is denied in many peoples thinking as a result of blindly accepting the trinitarian perspective of the Godhead.
     
  13. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    I think that you would discover that Solomon and Christ agree, as did the apostles, than only God hath immortality. Any attempt to prove that the human spirit is also immortal falls spectacularly earthwards when one considers the only immortal God is essentially and eternally the only immortal Spirit, God being Spirit and all.
     
  14. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    The application of the term *immortal* to the soul and spirit is actually a misnomer. Mortality and immortality pertain to the human body. And while at the present time only God has immortality, Scripture is also crystal clear that all the saints will be made immortal at the Resurrection/Rapture of the Church.

    However the Bible is also crystal clear that all souls are IMPERISHABLE. Which means that they do not evaporate upon death, or become extinct, or non-existent. All souls went to Sheol/Hades until the resurrection of Christ. But after His resurrection, only the unsaved or unrighteous go to Hades. All the souls of God's saints go to Heaven. They do not *sleep* in graves as some churches erroneously teach. And there is plenty of Scripture to support this.

    Since you are concerned about the truth Brakelite, why do you believe the lies about souls and immortality? Even the Eastern religions believe in the imperishability of the soul.
     
  15. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Because the only basis for the belief in the dead not really being dead is a sermon from the father of lies..."ye shall not surely die...ye shall become as god/God….you shall live forever".
    Like I said above, God is Spirit, and only God is immortal, thus God is the only immortal spirit. The redeemed are indeed given eternal life...but this is not the self-sustained immortality or natural immortality many believe it to be...like God's. Our eternal life will always be dependant on God's grace and on His power...which is why I am so detrmined to stand against the corrupt idea of sinners also receiving the same gift so that they can suffer forever in hell. Immortality comes as a gift at the resurrection Enoch...not a moment before, and it isn't ours naturally. That eastern religions all accept this lie ought to be a red flag for us all.
     
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