The Wonders of the kingdom of God.

[marks]

Perhaps because they have put you on ignore? That's my best guess anyway?

That would be the method, not the reason.

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

Like when people say Lord, Lord?

That's a religious posture. Name it and claim it. You read it therefore you imagine it for yourself. An indoctrination mantra...that has no basis in truth or reality. But people will believe fables over truth if that makes them feel good. People take the verses that tickle their ears and claim them.

Judgment day will be about truth and God's judgments. There are going to be some real surprises that show His righteousness is not anything like what we think is right. It will definitely not be serving the flesh.

Many will say...wait a minute Lord, I went to church...I even believed I was seated with you in heavenly places (because I was told so by pastors)....what about me???

We will be judged by our deeds since people can believe anything is true. But that doesn't make it true. Those who teach lies will be especially hard done by.

Do you believe you are walking in Zion...in sin? Is there sin in Zion? Do you believe you are walking IN Christ...yet continue to sin? Is there sin in Christ? Is Christ a minister of sin?

Gal. 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

You think maybe I need to fast??

 

[marks]

Episkopos is a man who has a billionaire convinced!! that he's poor, and hoping one day to be rich. He has billions of dollars in the bank, but he doesn't believe it's his, so he lives in poverty,

Would it be better to live in poverty or would it be better to say you are rich and in need of nothing?

If you actually are rich and in need of nothing, why count yourself poor?

Isn't it best to live in reality, and not spend all your life hoping to receive what we already have?

Those things we don't have, for instance, the redemption of our body, and our inheritance, for those things we hope, that is, to have earnest expectation.

But for what we've already been given? For that we are accountable. With God's gift to us we live our abundant life now, not hope to live that in some future. We are rich in Christ.

But for those who are not His, for them to say they are rich, it shows they are in fact blind.

But for those who are In Christ, the born again, God's spirit children, we are rich, in Christ, having been given all spiritual blessings In Christ.

And our lives are to show the fruits of our richness in Him.

Much love!

 

[marks]

And why does Jesus say about some men, it would have been better for them if they'd never been born? Is it because they will be annihilated in a second death? Or is it because there is a fate worse than death?

Judas? Personally, I think there is a fate worse then annihilation, and that being the eternal torment of the lake of fire. But then, I don't see annihilation of the human soul taught in Scripture. I think that part of being created in the image of God is that we live. God breathed life into us, and that never seems to go away. Our habitation may change, our venue may change, but it seems to me that Scripture shows pretty well that the life God created in us goes on.

It's like those also who will stumble a child into sin. Better to just drown them now. And I don't see where that means, get them saved and drown them. So to me it reads like they are better off just dying and going into their punishment now, then to increase it by yet more such offenses.

Much love!

 

[marks]

And why does Jesus say about some men, it would have been better for them if they'd never been born? Is it because they will be annihilated in a second death? Or is it because there is a fate worse than death?

BTW . . . I really like how you post just a thought or two per post. Helps keep things simply for me to follow!

Much love!

 

[marks]

I hear what you are saying here. In my mind "eternity" encompasses the past as well as the future...everlasting though, I CAN understand but, I have to wonder why God would want this to begin with. That "outer darkness" is a tough one for me to understand.

To me, man being created to a continuing existance isn't the same as God who alone is eternal, that is, in and of Himself. No one made Him that way, He simply is. So He has no beginning or ending, but we have a beginning.

If our created properties included having a personhood of some form that from the time of its creation would not stop existing, then that's just how we are.

Death describes separation from our bodies, separation from sins, separation from the Law, separation from the world, and separation from God. in all cases of death described in the Bible, existence is shown after that death. The simplest example being of course physical death, as John saw "the dead . . . standing before the throne".

There seems to me to be varied degrees of punishment, and that places specified for fallen angels will be shared by humans. That's where I see outer darkness fitting in.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Thank you for your reply!

So I see you understand that some will be annihilated in the Lake of Fire, is that correct? And others who will be banished to outer darkness?

Yes. Death is thrown into the lake of fire. Death will no longer be. Death will be done away with. No one will ever die again. So the lake of fire does away with, or annihilates, death. So I think hell And it's contents will also be annihilated/done away with.

The outer darkness appears to be different though. I would fear that more than I would fear annihilation. That's why I fear most for religious hypocrites who claim they are holy while they sin, while simultaneously claiming all the good things for themselves and all the bad things for others.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

King and Kingdom

"God’s Kingdom is within you" also translates, "God’s Kingdom is among you”, being Jesus referring to Himself.

King and Kingdom

King

Gospels 14 Chr 11 LP 7 OT many

King of Israel

Gospels 4 Chr 4 LP 3 OT 17

King of Jews

MT 4 LP 3 MK 5 LP 5 LK 3 LP 3 JH 5 LP 5 OT 0

Kingdom

MT 10 LP 1 MK 2 LP 0 LK 5 LP 3 JH 0 OT many

Kingdom of My Father

MT 1 LP 1 MK 0 LK 0 JH 0 OT 0

Kingdom of God

MT 5 LP 0 MK 11 LP 2 LK 28 LP 4 JH 3 LP 0 OT 0

Kingdom of Heaven

MT 29 LP 0 MK 0 LP 0 LK 0 LP 0 JH 0 LP 0 OT 0

His Kingdom

MT 3 LP 0 MK 0 LP 0 LK 2 LP 0 JH 0 LP 0 OT 21

My Kingdom

MT 0 LP 0 MK 1 LP 0 LK 1 LP 1 JH 1 LP 1 OT 6

Your Kingdom

MT 2 LP 0 MK 0 LP 0 LK 2 LP 1 JH 0 LP 0 OT8

1 Entry into Jerusalem (x 4)

2 Last Supper (x 1)

3 Trial (x 23)

4 Crucifixion (x 9)

John 1:50 “Nathanial said to Him: Rabbi, You are the Son of God—You, are the King of Israel.” (verse 52: Genesis 28:12)

John 6:15. Jesus' Kingdom is “the Kingdom of my Father” the “Kingdom of Righteousness” and of “Light”; and “not, of this world.”

John 18:36

Ἡ βασιλεία ἡ ἐμὴ οὐκ ἔστιν ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου τούτου·

My kingdom is not of this world:

“the King of the Jews who is born” Matthew 2:1

“Gospel of Kingdom” only Matthew; 2 times before and 1 time after Entry

“children of Kingdom” only Matthew; parable before Entry

“When the Son comes in his Glory … prepare the Kingdom”

“Kingdom of heavens”-- Only Matthew 29 times, one after, and all other incidences after Entry.

Matthew 23:13 “close the Kingdom of heavens before the people”

“Kingdom of My Father” Matthew 26:9 once = Luke 22:29

“Kingdom of God” Matthew x 6; Mark x 14; Luke x 33; John x 3.

“My Kingdom” Luke 22:30 John 18:36.

“Your koninkryk” Luke 23:42 (Matthew 20:21)

Matthew 2:1 “the King of the Jews who is born”

Conclusion:

Any reference to the Kingdom in reality, happens in the Last Week.

All mention of the King of the Kingdom in the Last Week, as follows,

1 Entry (x 4)

2 Last Supper (x 1)

3 Trial (x 23)

4 Crucifixion (x 9)

Question and inference:

Where and when does “the Son come in his Kingdom”?

In his Last Passover of Yahweh SUFFERING AND TRIUMPH! Ever since his Resurrection from the dead the KING the RISEN CHRIST rules on his Eternal Throne in his Heavenly Kingdom "on earth as it is heaven", and the Law of Jesus' Kingdom, is, "Thy will be done; Thy Kingdom come".

Therefore:

"The First Resurrection This The Thousand Years" (Amillennialism), for the Christian is the only future expectancy relevant to the soon Return of Jesus Christ.

 

[marks]

Many will say...wait a minute Lord, I went to church...I even believed I was seated with you in heavenly places (because I was told so by pastors)....what about me???

Interesting choice!

Ephesians 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

This is for those who are born again. We need to be certain we are truly born again, and not kidding ourselves.

Much love!

 

[marks]

God desires to dwell with people who have a contrite and humble spirit.

Isaiah 66:1-2
Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

Isaiah 57:15 "For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones."

Not just that God desires to dwell with these, that He Does live with these.

He lives in the high and holy place with the one whose heart is contrite, humble, who is poor, who is poor in spirit, and trembles at His Word. If this is you, that is where you are.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Thank you for your reply!

So I see you understand that some will be annihilated in the Lake of Fire, is that correct? And others who will be banished to outer darkness?

I'm curious how you understand those places that speak of the unrighteous going into eternal torment, like at the end of the Sheep/Goats judgment. The wording there is pretty specific.

Is there somewhere that speaks of the lake of fire being done away with?

It doesn't seem to be a part of either this creation, or the coming New Creation. I suggest that's where the outer darkness is, and there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth eternally.

Many interpret these words in other ways, I take them at face value.

One other question I'm curious about, as those who are not found in the Book of Life are tossed into the lake of fire, what to you defines who is written in the Book of Life?

Thank you in advance!

Much love!

I'm actually wanting to read the verses again before I discuss them and look up the greek too.

 

[marks]

I'm actually wanting to read the verses again before I discuss them and look up the greek too.

Sounds good!

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

How many believe that if you are born again...that's it...you're in! As if being born again was an end rather than a beginning.

Of course if one is born again that one will not see death. What is in question is the quality of that salvation. There is a salvation to honour. And there is a salvation to dishonour and shame.

In a great house (God's household is certainly very great) there are vessels of honour AND dishonour.

if we would humble ourselves and flee from iniquity....we would become a vessel of honour. But it seems that few people nowadays want to do that. They want to take their chances with a born-again saved status... as if we will NOT be judged by what we did but rather by a privileged birth status.

Didn't the Jews also count on a birth status?

 

[amadeus]

Ephesians 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

This is for those who are born again. We need to be certain we are truly born again, and not kidding ourselves.

Much love!

How is one certain that he is born again? You seem to suggest a person may be kidding himself about this. This I would call delusion, when a person believes he is born again but he really is not. Paul elsewhere tells us the cause of delusion:

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" II Thess 2:10-11

The delusion would come to a person who failed to love the truth. Would this include a person who loses or leaves his love for truth? Can a person lose or leave his love for truth? If truth is what God says should be our first love, then I would say, yes, a person can lose or leave it:

"Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love." Rev 2:4

Again, the question more specifically: Can a person be deluded about whether or not he is born again? Or... can a person who really has been born again lose or leave the love for truth that he had?

Consider my questions carefully as I purposely did not say what truth was. I simply indicated that if it is our first love losing it or leaving it could cause us to be in delusion.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

How is one certain that he is born again? You seem to suggest a person may be kidding himself about this. This I would call delusion, when a person believes he is born again but he really he is not. Paul elsewhere tells us the cause of delusion:

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" II Thess 2:10-11

The delusion would come to a person who failed to love the truth. Would this include a person who loses or leaves his love truth? Can a person lose or leave his love for truth? If truth is what God says should be our first love, then I would say, yes, a person can lose or leave his it:

"Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love." Rev 2:4

Again, the question more specifically: Can a person be deluded about whether or not he is born again? Or... can a person who really has been born again lose or leave the love of truth that he had?
Consider my questions carefully as I purposely did not say what truth was. I simply indicated that if it is our first love losing it or leaving it could cause us to be in delusion.

Is truth subjective and one may see something and another something else in a different light. Is either right...or God only? Deceived. That is terrifying. I’m struggling here with lam I the deceived”? To say we are all for truth? I don’t get it when one is told their weakness brings out the selfishness. Then others attempt to defend and the one is told those coming to her defense is wrong for to doing so. Time and time again this one is pointed blatantly to as weak extends mercy and forgiveness and patience and grace in saying “it is okay. you are my brother. No harm.” Then others side with experience over the fruits of the Spirit manifested in weakness. See it wasn’t against the others or me...but against her. And all choose. Depart from iniquity ...is not part of it to be careful to not consume one another? Yet words are uncovered then covered back up for the sake of experience over just saying what it is...Flesh is ugly when it rears up in all of us. God is Sufficient. Have mercy.

 

[marks]

How is one certain that he is born again? You seem to suggest a person may be kidding himself about this. This I would call delusion, when a person believes he is born again but he really is not. Paul elsewhere tells us the cause of delusion:

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" II Thess 2:10-11

The delusion would come to a person who failed to love the truth. Would this include a person who loses or leaves his love for truth? Can a person lose or leave his love for truth? If truth is what God says should be our first love, then I would say, yes, a person can lose or leave it:

"Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love." Rev 2:4

Again, the question more specifically: Can a person be deluded about whether or not he is born again? Or... can a person who really has been born again lose or leave the love for truth that he had?

Consider my questions carefully as I purposely did not say what truth was. I simply indicated that if it is our first love losing it or leaving it could cause us to be in delusion.

Will you ever no longer be the offspring of your parents? I don't believe so, it just happens to be a fact of your birth.

Can someone be deluded about being born from God? I expect so, and we each need to be certain that we are not deluded, but thankfully God addresses this in Scripture, and we can actually know. But we must believe what we read. Not just everything we hear from others.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Is truth subjective and one may see something and another something else in a different light. Is either right...or God only? Deceived. That is terrifying. I’m struggling here with lam I the deceived”? To say we are all for truth? I don’t get it when one is told their weakness brings out the selfishness. Then others attempt to defend and the one is told those coming to her defense is wrong for to doing so. Time and time again this one is pointed blatantly to as weak extends mercy and forgiveness and patience and grace in saying “it is okay. you are my brother. No harm.” Then others side with experience over the fruits of the Spirit manifested in weakness. See it wasn’t against the others or me...but against her. And all choose. Depart from iniquity ...is not part of it to be careful to not consume one another? Yet words are uncovered then covered back up for the sake of experience over just saying what it is...Flesh is ugly when it rears up in all of us. God is Sufficient. Have mercy.

The truth should call us to question our certainties. As in....Lord...is it I?

If someone asks...well, am I even saved? ...the problem is not with the truth. The truth is meant to challenge us.

What we have seen on this thread is the flesh trying to overturn the truth because it is doing what it is supposed to do.

When Jesus explained how God's kingdom worked the disciples asked...then who can be saved? Jesus said that with men it was impossible but with God all things are possible.


Now in truth...many on this very forum, if they didn't know it was Jesus (due to religious conditioning) that was causing His disciples to waver in their own beliefs would say that any 'truth" that makes people question themselves is of the devil. The opposite is true of course. Actually the devil wants you to feel "saved" and good about yourself. He wants to seduce you into a false assurance so he can glory in your downfall.

If you want to see they who despise the truth just re-read this thread...a thread meant to testify to the grace of God.

We are not to hold our own beliefs...which cannot do anything but deceive us. No, we need to enter into faith. Faith exists side by side with doubt...self-doubt. But human beliefs fall apart when that certainty is challenged. We need to trade in our human beliefs for the faith OF Jesus Christ. So then to have our own beliefs exposed as just that...human opinions...is a good thing. So that we might forsake them.

People want 2 things in life for the survival of the carnal nature. Freedom and control.

No carnal person wants to have God be in control. THEY want control over God. Who trusts God with their salvation...apart from their own control of assurance from the self-life? So people choose religion over an actual spiritual relationship with God. It is more certain. People want the freedom to do as they wish, to speak freely and argue their points. But these will be judged for it.

There is a cost to pretending we know things.

 

[Nancy]

@Nancy just wanted for what it’s worth, it’s my belief you’ve walked in Zion from the moment you said LORD!

It is still my belief also, for now...I will know when God shows and confirms ♥

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The truth should call us to question our certainties. As in....Lord...is it I?

If someone asks...well, am I even saved? ...the problem is not with the truth. The truth is meant to challenge us.

What we have seen on this thread is the flesh trying to overturn the truth because it is doing what it is supposed to do.

When Jesus explained how God's kingdom worked the disciples asked...then who can be saved? Jesus said that with men it was impossible but with God all things are possible.


Now in truth...many on this very forum, if they didn't know it was Jesus (due to religious conditioning) that was causing His disciples to waver in their own beliefs would say that any 'truth" that makes people question themselves is of the devil. The opposite is true of course. Actually the devil wants you to feel "saved" and good about yourself. He wants to seduce you into a false assurance so he can glory in your downfall.

If you want to see they who despise the truth just re-read this thread...a thread meant to testify to the grace of God.

We are not to hold our own beliefs...which cannot do anything but deceive us. No, we need to enter into faith. Faith exists side by side with doubt...self-doubt. But human beliefs fall apart when that certainty is challenged. We need to trade in our human beliefs for the faith OF Jesus Christ. So then to have our own beliefs exposed as just that...human opinions...is a good thing. So that we might forsake them.

People want 2 things in life for the survival of the carnal nature. Freedom and control.

No carnal person wants to have God be in control. THEY want control over God. Who trusts God with their salvation...apart from their own control of assurance from the self-life? So people choose religion over an actual spiritual relationship with God. It is more certain. People want the freedom to do as they wish, to speak freely and argue their points. But these will be judged for it.

There is a cost to pretending we know things.

Ok. Thank you for responding ...will reread the thread and consider it.

 

[marks]

Hi Episkopos,

The Jews did seem to rely on being sons of Abraham, but no, that wasn't enough. That was not rebirth. Born from God is an whole different thing than born from Abraham. Born from Abraham leaves them flesh, that which is born of flesh is flesh. Born from God makes them spirit, as that which is born of Spirit is spirit.

Its not that we will be judged according to our status, or beliefs, as you've pointed out.

The fact is, as God's children, we enjoy a very different relationship than those who are not His children. We are the children.

if we would humble ourselves and flee from iniquity....we would become a vessel of honour.

Rather . . . if we purge ourselves of these . . .

2 Timothy 2
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Purge ourselves of what?

These . . . looking for the antecedant . . . 'these' is a neuter pronoun, iniquity is a feminine noun, but we have a closer candidate, wood and earth, which are also neuter nouns, so this is what we are purging, the wood and earth.

The reminds me very much of Paul discribing our building the church, with silver, gold, precious gems, or wood, hay, stubble.

I think the message here, is not only that we are to depart from iniquity, but stop holding onto these fleshy ways of trying to build the church.

Much love!