The Wonders of the kingdom of God.

[marks]

May God bless you richly as you walk with Him.

And may it be so for you!

Much love!

 

[Nancy]

For me it's all about usefulness, and where I feel the Spirit leads me.

Mostly what I find is that the things I experience in my life serve to inform my feelings of confidence, but I think that really only goes for me, that is, I don't think my stories give other people the confidence I feel having lived them.

Details from my flesh-life seldom work any good, I find, only enough so that others can know I really do know about that. I'm giving a talk at our next men's prayer breakfast about pornography addiction, and I'm intending to let them know that I was an addict, for a number of years, and that God freed me, and He can free you, whomever, too! And beyond that, my story doesn't matter, what matters is the power of a resurrected life, and that I tell from the Bible.

I'm going to give them a lot of info on brain chemistry too, so they can understand the cravings. Knowing the power of the flesh is broken can sometimes be difficult to understand, but it can be easier, I think, to apply that knowledge when we understand actually how things work, and how the devil schemes to exploit the weaknesses of the flesh, in this case, the addiction process, which reveals porn to be essentially just another drug addiction.

Supernatural things God does with me, so many are clearly outside of this nature, and in them I know a Faithful Creator. He made me because He wants me, and He understands my life, not just that He understands humanity, but He knows and understands me, and that is such a strong reality for me, with the things I've experienced being such strong and dramatic part of that.

And in every case, these things simply show the clear and simple statements of the Bible. And in fact, while I'd have to fill 10 forums with writing to properly show how this is so, the Bible is so completely and thouroughly interwoven through all of these experiences, all they do is leave me pointing to the Bible saying, "I believe that Book!", because I believe God Who wrote it, and I know He wrote it to me.

But for all the power my experiences have in my life, I find the Bible has more.

Preachin' to the chior I perceive!

Much love!

I have a brother who I wish could be at your men's breakfast He tells me he has stopped with the pornography yet, I am not so sure as he still gets right on the computer when he gets home and is on for the remainder of the night. I pray for him all the time. He holds a special place in my heart as I KNOW how much he loves the Lord and beats himself up all the time. My advice to him, as far as beating on himself when he sins is that he has to accept the grace and forgiveness from God. It was like this for me moons ago, couldn't see that God would forgive me...God showed me that was pride. We cannot out sin His grace. My brother hates his sin and in turn is hating himself! I know he is sincere with his walk but, he has such a short attention span, more than any of the 7 mom gave birth to, lol. I will pray for God to bless your talk at the breakfast,
In Him always!

 

[amadeus]

"he had access to the Tree of Life and could have eaten of it at any time."
I can only wonder, was the Tree of Life not as pleasing to the eye for them? Or, satan in the form of the serpent (who had to have had legs at one time, no?? nother topic ) made sure they focused them on the wrong tree. Hmm. Things that make ya go hmm. lol.

Without going into detail here and now, I suspect that the Tree of Life really is not so pleasing to some who call themselves believers now, not if it would mean they would have to admit they have not yet overcome in order to be given access:

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7

 

[Nancy]

Without going into detail here and now, I suspect that the Tree of Life really is not so pleasing to some who call themselves believers now, not if it would mean they would have to admit they have not yet overcome in order to be given access:

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7

Good answer John, couldn't have put it better in those few words.

 

[amadeus]

Hi amadeus,

Just thinking about this a bit more . . . have we not in Christ eaten from the Tree of Life?

Much love!

Not if we have not overcome the world as Jesus overcame the world! Only overcomers are permitted to eat of that Tree. We have been given the power, but if we presume it is already a done thing and it is not, then we will never do it because many as a result are sitting back doing nothing. I did not say all, but some even though they may not see or understand the necessity are continuing to strive.

 

[marks]

Not if we have not overcome the world as Jesus overcame the world! Only overcomers are permitted to eat of that Tree. We have been given the power, but if we presume it is already a done thing and it is not, then we will never do it because many as a result are sitting back doing nothing. I did not say all, but some even though they may not see or understand the necessity are continuing to strive.

I'm speaking in a spiritual sense. Jesus is the One Who gives life.

Later, our bodies will be redeemed, and we too will eat fruit from that tree.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

The overcomer is overcoming all of the time. That he is doing so and then physical death comes upon him means he made to the end of his course even though you or I looking at his life may see some places which to our eyes needed further work. God judges according to what we have and what we have done with what have in the time allotted to us. Consider David who to his death was a polygamist. He was married to several women apparently to the day he died. But... the scriptures describe him as the "apple of God's eye" and as a man after God's own heart. How much like God was he? Much more like Him at the end of his course than at the beginning. He was improving all the time... that is overcoming.

Was David an overcomer eligible to eat of the Tree of Life? God knows. Things that seem to be lacking in him but for which he is not condemned would mean condemnation for you or for me. Why? Because we had a different starting point and we had some things available to us that he did not have. "Much is given, much is required". Because of so many differences between people only God in the end of the matter can be a competent judge of any single person.

Will have to digest that whole post for sometime. Won’t answer for anyone else. Tossed to and fro on the waves is uncertainty between flesh and spirit. One is crucified, or is supposed to be.

What does it mean for each of us to be crucified? Don't try to answer me. Simply consider it for yourself in your own set of circumstances which God alone knows fully.

I’d ask how one goes about putting what is born of God back under the flesh, that is to put the resurrected Son back in the grave and say it can be corrupted? They are separate. One dead. One alive unto God. Maybe we tangle the two?

As long as the old man is decreasing and the new man is increasing all the way to the end our course, perhaps that is all God requires. That makes us overcomers. Don't compare yourself with anyone but Jesus:

"For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise." II Cor 10:12

The scripture says that Adam was the son of God, but then he disobeyed God and died. When a person is born again or born from above, to me, it simply means we are effectively put back to where Adam was before he disobeyed so that we have our own opportunity to do right what Adam failed to do right. God is fair. If He has given us more than He gave Adam then He also requires more from us. No one but He is able to measure such things so as to judge everyone the same and fairly.

The word instructs to walk in the Spirit...as not a random momentarily experience that only happens for a few but a way. He said ...then you will not satisfy the lust of the flesh. In the light at all times ...yet do we say we go from darkness to light to darkness to light and back and forth by our own merit.

If you read through the scriptures carefully, which I believe you already have, you will see that there are different degrees of brightness. We may because of our foolish ways slide back to darker places from time to time, but hopefully our general trend is always into an ever brighter place. [Is that not what we see in King David, who certainly slid back, but repented and went forward again more than once?] What is the limit on how much brightness we can tolerate or how bright a place we will be in at the end? The limit is us.

One is in darkness crucified.

How long and drawn out, or prolonged, is our own crucifixion? Doesn't that depend upon us? A lot of backsliding or fence riding will prolong the agony of our crucifixion. The Romans worked out apparently to fine art [if we want to call it that] to allow the person to live as long as possible in the most pain possible prior to finally resting in death. That is why I would say that was the way Jesus was put to death that way.
Should we however purposely prolong our agony unnecessarily? What does God expect of us? What does God require of us?

One is Born of God and in the Light of the Lamb. The urging to not be deceived in scripture then turned into a child which Honours to the Father is flesh when flesh brings dishonors and disobedience and shame? Darkness. We read this ...do we want to return to that? It is Spirit which honours and is obedience and not shame to the Father. Light. Is He not always with the children?Or that is how I see it at the moment. Wrong. Could be. If so I ask you to pray for God’s correction. He said in the OT He would NOT allow them to corrupt His name when He took them into the promised land. If I told you that which was born of my mother honours her at all times ...That would be blasphemous because it is a lie. That born of my mother brings shame and is dead with Christ. That which is born of God...it can’t be corrupted, born from above.

That is what much of men and their churches teach, but is it really what God teaches? I don't believe that. Adam was born of God [Luke 3:38]. Yet, he certainly corrupted himself.

To be tossed between that which is already corrupted and destroyed and that which God says cannot be corrupted. 1 Peter 3:3-4 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; [4] But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

...don’t see He would allow His children to make a mockery of Him by saying we don’t sin in the flesh when we do. God is sufficient. All sufficient.

God is certainly sufficient, but each of us who has not already overcome the old man and his ways completely and finally keeps on the quenching the Holy Spirit within himself and preventing that final overcoming, that final killing of the old man of us... so we continue to sin. This choosing to quench the Holy Spirit in us repeatedly instead of surrendering always to the Holy Spirit in us is what "free will" is. We can always choose to let God lead within us or we can choose to lead ourselves. God never loses battles, but when we insist on leading we do lose battles and lost battles mean sinning yet again.

 

[amadeus]

I'm speaking in a spiritual sense. Jesus is the One Who gives life.

Later, our bodies will be redeemed, and we too will eat fruit from that tree.

Much love!

I understand what you mean, but you have already added things in this short post that raise further questions in me that given what your position seems to be and what I believe mine is, cannot be answered now so as to change either your position nor mine.

For your consideration that word "Later" for me is troubling, because if our trial is now and our Life is now, later, is a point I don't believe you are ever likely to reach. Don't ask me to explain that because you really don't want to hear me on it. You are still trying to convince me you are right. That discussion is finished.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You will hear from me many times...I'm a bit slow...
I still don't understand, where He chooses to put His Name. What am I missing? I understand, 'for My sake'...very much so.
Do the rest of you understand that particular phrase? Thanks.

Where He chooses to put His name?

Hebrews 8:2
[2] A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

1 Peter 2:5-6
[5] Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. [6] Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Ephesians 2:18-22
For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. [19] Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; [20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone ; [21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: [22] In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 3:10-11
[10] According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. [11] For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.


Does that help? I don’t know how to explain something like that. Don’t know how that translates in words but I’m saying I genuinely don’t have the words. You are no bother. Ever. Sometimes I make things too difficult.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The overcomer is overcoming all of the time. That he is doing so and then physical death comes upon him means he made to the end of his course even though you or I looking at his life may see some places which to our eyes needed further work. God judges according to what we have and what we have done with what have in the time allotted to us. Consider David who to his death was a polygamist. He was married to several women apparently to the day he died. But... the scriptures describe him as the "apple of God's eye" and as a man after God's own heart. How much like God was he? Much more like Him at the end of his course than at the beginning. He was improving all the time... that is overcoming.

Was David an overcomer eligible to eat of the Tree of Life? God knows. Things that seem to be lacking in him but for which he is not condemned would mean condemnation for you or for me. Why? Because we had a different starting point and we had some things available to us that he did not have. "Much is given, much is required". Because of so many differences between people only God in the end of the matter can be a competent judge of any single person.


What does it mean for each of us to be crucified? Don't try to answer me. Simply consider it for yourself in your own set of circumstances which God alone knows fully.


As long as the old man is decreasing and the new man is increasing all the way to the end our course, perhaps that is all God requires. That makes us overcomers. Don't compare yourself with anyone but Jesus:

"For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise." II Cor 10:12

The scripture says that Adam was the son of God, but then he disobeyed God and died. When a person is born again or born from above, to me, it simply means we are effectively put back to where Adam was before he disobeyed so that we have our own opportunity to do right what Adam failed to do right. God is fair. If He has given us more than He gave Adam then He also requires more from us. No one but He is able to measure such things so as to judge everyone the same and fairly.


If you read through the scriptures carefully, which I believe you already have, you will see that there are different degrees of brightness. We may because of our foolish ways slide back to darker places from time to time, but hopefully our general trend is always into an ever brighter place. [Is that not what we see in King David, who certainly slid back, but repented and went forward again more than once?] What is the limit on how much brightness we can tolerate or how bright a place we will be in at the end? The limit is us.


How long and drawn out, or prolonged, is our own crucifixion? Doesn't that depend upon us? A lot of backsliding or fence riding will prolong the agony of our crucifixion. The Romans worked out apparently to fine art [if we want to call it that] to allow the person to live as long as possible in the most pain possible prior to finally resting in death. That is why I would say that was the way Jesus was put to death that way.
Should we however purposely prolong our agony unnecessarily? What does God expect of us? What does God require of us?



That is what much of men and their churches teach, but is it really what God teaches? I don't believe that. Adam was born of God [Luke 3:38]. Yet, he certainly corrupted himself.


God is certainly sufficient, but each of us who has not already overcome the old man and his ways completely and finally keeps on the quenching the Holy Spirit within himself and preventing that final overcoming, that final killing of the old man of us... so we continue to sin. This choosing to quench the Holy Spirit in us repeatedly instead of surrendering always to the Holy Spirit in us is what "free will" is. We can always choose to let God lead within us or we can choose to lead ourselves. God never loses battles, but when we insist on leading we do lose battles and lost battles mean sinning yet again.

Read through several times. Maybe I’m young ...I would consider you an elder of the Word so I mean no disrespect. I’m aware much could change in how I view things as God corrects as long as I’m here. For me at the moment it sounds too much like belief in man and works of flesh. Above you spoke of the tree of Life. Putting off waiting for physical death to overcome is (IMO) putting off too long as He said if anyone will keep His sayings they will not see death. And to drink of the Living water and have life. Now. Eat and live. Are we not to believe 1 Thessalonians 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

He calls. We hear His voice. Then do we say He is not faithful who calls you and won’t do it?
...Sorry makes no sense to me.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

For over twenty years I was OSAS but didn’t know God. I had said a little prayer. I didn’t know God is the one who is faithful. I didn’t even know what is faithful.

Hebrews 2:10-11
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. [11] For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

He that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one...when one fails then they all fail? Is He faithful as promised...to do it? Implying action but HIS(of the Spirit, wrought of God). “Are all of one.”

To say that hidden man of the heart ...assuming that hidden man set in the heart is the resurrected Life of the Son crying Abba Father can be corrupted ...goes against God saying “in that which can NOT be corrupted.”

As far as Adam and all the others which where Old Testament when those adornments were outwardly, adornments of which could be corrupted. Proving all the flesh adornments do not give life. Again (IMO). There is an angst in scripture in “if he endures” yet the opposite of “they will never be moved”... “if you don’t faint” the opposite of “they will not faint or grow weary”
Flesh or Spirit. One was crucified in darkness. One was called forth into the light of Christ.

Isaiah 40:28-29
[28] Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding. [29] He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.

He is in the children and the One doing the work (wrought of God) as the children have entered into rest and ceased from work.

John, I’m not saying OSAS. I’m saying should not God be our confidence and not the flesh? As in Proverbs 3:11-12 My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord ; neither be weary of his correction: [12] For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

He is able. What is impossible for man. Is possible with God. That’s all. Is that a bad thing?

 

[amadeus]

Read through several times. Maybe I’m young ...I would consider you an elder of the Word so I mean no disrespect. I’m aware much could change in how I view things as God corrects as long as I’m here. For me at the moment it sounds too much like belief in man and works of flesh. Above you spoke of the tree of Life. Putting off waiting for physical death to overcome is (IMO) putting off too long as He said if anyone will keep His sayings they will not see death. And to drink of the Living water and have life. Now. Eat and live. Are we not to believe 1 Thessalonians 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

He calls. We hear His voice. Then do we say He is not faithful who calls you and won’t do it?
...Sorry makes no sense to me.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

For over twenty years I was OSAS but didn’t know God. I had said a little prayer. I didn’t know God is the one who is faithful. I didn’t even know what is faithful.

Hebrews 2:10-11
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. [11] For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

He that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one...when one fails then they all fail? Is He faithful as promised...to do it? Implying action but HIS(of the Spirit, wrought of God). “Are all of one.”

To say that hidden man of the heart ...assuming that hidden man set in the heart is the resurrected Life of the Son crying Abba Father can be corrupted ...goes against God saying “in that which can NOT be corrupted.”

As far as Adam and all the others which where Old Testament when those adornments were outwardly, adornments of which could be corrupted. Proving all the flesh adornments do not give life. Again (IMO). There is an angst in scripture in “if he endures” yet the opposite of “they will never be moved”... “if you don’t faint” the opposite of “they will not faint or grow weary”
Flesh or Spirit. One was crucified in darkness. One was called forth into the light of Christ.

Isaiah 40:28-29
[28] Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding. [29] He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.

He is in the children and the One doing the work (wrought of God) as the children have entered into rest and ceased from work.

John, I’m not saying OSAS. I’m saying should not God be our confidence and not the flesh? As in Proverbs 3:11-12 My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord ; neither be weary of his correction: [12] For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

He is able. What is impossible for man. Is possible with God. That’s all. Is that a bad thing?

From your response it appears you did not understand a lot of what I wrote but I won't try to explain it all again. I know I have trouble myself following lengthy detailed explanations by others. As to offending me, no you have not, not at all.

One point I will address. I do not in any way support or encourage a dependence on the flesh. Quite the contrary, but apparently you did not understand my words on that. I did not want you holding onto that misconception of me even if you did not follow my explanation.

Thank you for your kindness. Give God the glory!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Well...concerning my thoughts yesterday (about the outer darkness being an eternal destination/torment) while hell is annihilated in the lake of fire, I am still not certain, but I'm leaning, after more reading, towards outer darkness also being cast into the fire. Don't remember which verses swayed me that way, but there was one in particular that didn't exactly say outer darkness but it did say wailing and gnashing of teeth, and it ended with a casting into the fire.

I am back to my perplexity on Satan somehow having eternal life in him, but apart from God...I don't know how it is possible. But how has he lived so long apart from God? But I don't think men have this eternity in them at birth.

And towards the end of my searching this out, I was brought back to what He always brings me back to - that to know all of these things for sure is not necessary. All that is necessary is to keep trusting Him more and more.

Being such a weak church is caused by a lack of trust. A lack of trust is why we do not see many miracles and do not do many miracles. A lack of trust is what keeps us from walking in the Spirit.

While I think satanstorment will be eternal, I do not think it will be that way for men. But I can drop it now and go back to what He has given me to do, which is to race to trust Him more and more. And in every place I didn't trust but then began to, I have seen a miraculous result of provision. So I will continue to trust Him regarding earthly matters that He has spoken on, because that's what He asks of me now, and if He then tells me more of heavenly things, I will be overjoyed.

I have to go back to this simplicity now. I may not come in here for awhile, I'm not sure. I just need to focus again on racing to trust more and more. If something doesn't help me in this, I need to let it go.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

There is a thread about being beheaded for the Lord’s name. Agree with many responses over there that the beheading of John shows what must decrease. If one is the Lord’s and calls Him Lord and takes the Name Lord ...then they have been beheaded and Christ is their Head.

If one has been beheaded for His Name Sake and Christ is made Head...as a bridegroom coming out of His chamber, and rejoices as a strong man to run a race. ...nothing hid from the heat thereof...where many run but only One gets the prize. 1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. (Philippians 3:14)

That One is Hebrews 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

When one fails they all fail...when one looses they all loose. When one mourns they all mourn. When one rejoices they all rejoice. Is it individual races of stepping on others, threading them down in the streets, devouring them ...to get to the prize of the high calling?

1 Corinthians 12:22-26
[22] Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: [23] And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. [24] For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: [25] That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. [26] And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

How when and if The Lord is made the Head of His body...a bridegroom coming out of His chamber to run...The Lord fails to run the race and obtain the prize? “It is finished.”
Is He head of His body and those called wrought of God, His workmanship, the Heavens declaring His Handywork? How does one keep switching heads...does the Power of the crucifixion and the resurrected power of God who calls a forth into the light of Christ mean nothing. Does God grow weary or faint? Only if Christ is not the Head and not the One running and we are still our own head. No beheading for the Lord’s sake. Still man’s work of racing for the prize. “Rest.” Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

There is an odd passage in Acts: Read it carefully and ask Him to speak.
Acts 5:1-10 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, [2] And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. [3] But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? [4] Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. [5] And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. [6] And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. [7] And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. [8] And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. [9] Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. [10] Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

To say He is the Head...yet to keep back part the price of the land for our own? Matthew 16:25-26 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. [26] For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

What does that have to do with “the wonders of the Kingdom of God” ...absolutely nothing except maybe we should consider how we treat those parts that lack.

 

[bbyrd009]

Well...concerning my thoughts yesterday (about the outer darkness being an eternal destination/torment) while hell is annihilated in the lake of fire, I am still not certain, but I'm leaning, after more reading, towards outer darkness also being cast into the fire. Don't remember which verses swayed me that way, but there was one in particular that didn't exactly say outer darkness but it did say wailing and gnashing of teeth, and it ended with a casting into the fire.

I am back to my perplexity on Satan somehow having eternal life in him, but apart from God...I don't know how it is possible. But how has he lived so long apart from God? But I don't think men have this eternity in them at birth.

And towards the end of my searching this out, I was brought back to what He always brings me back to - that to know all of these things for sure is not necessary. All that is necessary is to keep trusting Him more and more.

Being such a weak church is caused by a lack of trust. A lack of trust is why we do not see many miracles and do not do many miracles. A lack of trust is what keeps us from walking in the Spirit.

While I think satanstorment will be eternal, I do not think it will be that way for men. But I can drop it now and go back to what He has given me to do, which is to race to trust Him more and more. And in every place I didn't trust but then began to, I have seen a miraculous result of provision. So I will continue to trust Him regarding earthly matters that He has spoken on, because that's what He asks of me now, and if He then tells me more of heavenly things, I will be overjoyed.

I have to go back to this simplicity now. I may not come in here for awhile, I'm not sure. I just need to focus again on racing to trust more and more. If something doesn't help me in this, I need to let it go.

fwiw you might abandon the futile search for knowledge of "tomorrow" that pretty much the whole world seeks? And maybe see your, our conversion experience as kind of more like a seance or something--just for purposes of thought experiment, reflecting, ok, not condemning--or even like having your fortune told by a warlock maybe. Death More Abundantly and life, more abundantly will not peacefully coexist in someone i dont think bro. Wishing you well

 

[Nancy]

Well...concerning my thoughts yesterday (about the outer darkness being an eternal destination/torment) while hell is annihilated in the lake of fire, I am still not certain, but I'm leaning, after more reading, towards outer darkness also being cast into the fire. Don't remember which verses swayed me that way, but there was one in particular that didn't exactly say outer darkness but it did say wailing and gnashing of teeth, and it ended with a casting into the fire.

I am back to my perplexity on Satan somehow having eternal life in him, but apart from God...I don't know how it is possible. But how has he lived so long apart from God? But I don't think men have this eternity in them at birth.

And towards the end of my searching this out, I was brought back to what He always brings me back to - that to know all of these things for sure is not necessary. All that is necessary is to keep trusting Him more and more.

Being such a weak church is caused by a lack of trust. A lack of trust is why we do not see many miracles and do not do many miracles. A lack of trust is what keeps us from walking in the Spirit.

While I think satanstorment will be eternal, I do not think it will be that way for men. But I can drop it now and go back to what He has given me to do, which is to race to trust Him more and more. And in every place I didn't trust but then began to, I have seen a miraculous result of provision. So I will continue to trust Him regarding earthly matters that He has spoken on, because that's what He asks of me now, and if He then tells me more of heavenly things, I will be overjoyed.

I have to go back to this simplicity now. I may not come in here for awhile, I'm not sure. I just need to focus again on racing to trust more and more. If something doesn't help me in this, I need to let it go.

I agree that if something does not help or confuses...we should let it go...I know I do, or I will panic.
I think I know which script. you are talking about, I am re-reading the Gospels and I remembered the verse was (of course, in Matthew)

• Matthew 13:50
  "and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 13:50 And same as you, made me wonder...AGAIN! about it all. Yep, I'm leaving this one where it is for now as well...Trusting and racing to Him is more important.
  

 

[bbyrd009]

or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

why would a man have to give anything in exchange for his soul? Shouldnt that logically Read "what should a man get in exchange for his soul?" So then how can "what shall a man give..." even be made to make sense? Best of luck with that, interesting puzzle there, no web help at all that i can find.

What does that have to do with “the wonders of the Kingdom of God” ...absolutely nothing

? hmm

 

[bbyrd009]

Well...concerning my thoughts yesterday (about the outer darkness being an eternal destination/torment) while hell is annihilated in the lake of fire, I am still not certain, but I'm leaning, after more reading, towards outer darkness also being cast into the fire. Don't remember which verses swayed me that way, but there was one in particular that didn't exactly say outer darkness but it did say wailing and gnashing of teeth, and it ended with a casting into the fire.

I am back to my perplexity on Satan somehow having eternal life in him, but apart from God...I don't know how it is possible. But how has he lived so long apart from God? But I don't think men have this eternity in them at birth.

And towards the end of my searching this out, I was brought back to what He always brings me back to - that to know all of these things for sure is not necessary. All that is necessary is to keep trusting Him more and more.

Being such a weak church is caused by a lack of trust. A lack of trust is why we do not see many miracles and do not do many miracles. A lack of trust is what keeps us from walking in the Spirit.

While I think satanstorment will be eternal, I do not think it will be that way for men. But I can drop it now and go back to what He has given me to do, which is to race to trust Him more and more. And in every place I didn't trust but then began to, I have seen a miraculous result of provision. So I will continue to trust Him regarding earthly matters that He has spoken on, because that's what He asks of me now, and if He then tells me more of heavenly things, I will be overjoyed.

I have to go back to this simplicity now. I may not come in here for awhile, I'm not sure. I just need to focus again on racing to trust more and more. If something doesn't help me in this, I need to let it go.

I agree that if something does not help or confuses...we should let it go...I know I do, or I will panic.
I think I know which script. you are talking about, I am re-reading the Gospels and I remembered the verse was (of course, in Matthew)

• Matthew 13:50
  "and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 13:50 And same as you, made me wonder...AGAIN! about it all. Yep, I'm leaving this one where it is for now as well...Trusting and racing to Him is more important.
  

fwiw in that context you guys might consider some other guys got tossed in a furnace of fire, no wailing and gnashing there right? God is an all-consuming fire yeh? So prolly we get jerked around mentally by trying to apply our logic to naive statements, something like that

 

[VictoryinJesus]

why would a man have to give anything in exchange for his soul? Shouldnt that logically Read "what should a man get in exchange for his soul?" So then how can "what shall a man give..." even be made to make sense? Best of luck with that, interesting puzzle there, no web help at all that i can find.
? hmm

Freedom? Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,


“Pick up your cross and follow Me” ...question how long does one stay in the ark Noah built once dry land appears?

 

[bbyrd009]

Freedom?

a man shall give freedom in exchange for his soul? I guess it is "what shall a man give," not "have to" i guess, but i would def be reading this in Lex to see the root. Anyway, two ways of reading this "give in exchange for his soul" thing, was the point. freedom, yeh, maybe

 

[marks]

.

I understand what you mean, but you have already added things in this short post that raise further questions in me that given what your position seems to be and what I believe mine is, cannot be answered now so as to change either your position nor mine.

For your consideration that word "Later" for me is troubling, because if our trial is now and our Life is now, later, is a point I don't believe you are ever likely to reach. Don't ask me to explain that because you really don't want to hear me on it. You are still trying to convince me you are right. That discussion is finished.

I'm sorry, I was actually trying to make things a little lighter, yet another fail! It wasn't intended to open yet another theological dispute.

I picked something as an analogy I thought you'd be on board with, I was surprised when you weren't, but it wasn't to make things heavier.

I'm sorry!

Much love!