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Featured The word, "Doctrine"

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Willie T, Jul 29, 2019.

  1. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    And you, Helen, correctly read the exact intent of the OP.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
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  2. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Whoops, I still forgot to change my word from "white breads" to white BEARDS !!
    Even though someone "caught it" and told me about it. LOL
     
  3. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    For me, the initial emphasis of the OP was not to reduce the importance of doctrine...that is teaching and truth...but the altered focus given the word in todays society. I am not sure that the KJV is wrong in using the word...in the 16th century it meant teaching, and everyone understood it as such, so don't blame the KJV. Society, outside of Christianity, is what has given the word doctrine a bad rap. The term indoctrinate, which does not appear in scripture, is indeed a poor word to use for teaching...but we don't do that do we? Indoctrinate? Propagandise? The world would have us believe we do, but I would take no notice of what the world tells us about ourselves when using their own linguistic nuances to suit their biases. The truth is, truth matters. Good sound teaching...sound doctrine...matters. Notwithstanding modern grammatical changes in language and understanding.
    The same can be said for fundamentalism. Nothing wrong with fundamentals. Fundamentals are the foundation...the base...upon which everything else is built. Because society chooses to use the term in a derogatory manner to mean extreme terrorism, and for governments to lay a hold of that term making it possible for fundamentalist Christians (those who believe in scripture, believe in the atonement of Christ, believe in the second coming etc...the fundamentals) to be possible targets for oppression in the future simple because they are fundamentalists, thus terrorists, does not reduce one iota of the importance of truth, and the importance of teaching it. For those who think doctrine doesn't matter, and that to be a "fundie" is a bad thing, I say tough.
    Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught (instructed), that he may be able by sound (Full well being...Metaph.error free) doctrine (Teaching/instruction) both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers (those that contradict).
    Col.1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
    28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching (instructing...NOT INDOCTRINATING) every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
    Col.3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching (instructing) and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

    Instructing...teaching...NOT propagandizing, brainwashing, indoctrinating. The world can use those terms if they wish, let them. But do NOT allow them to dissuade you from doing what is right and correct in heralding (preaching) the good news (gospel) and instructing (teaching) others in all wisdom and truth.
     
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  4. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    No, those in the 1st century did not "indoctrinate." Would that such had continued.
     
  5. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Well, it did continue, and they won many converts through their sound teaching methods and example of love and freedom to dissent. But that branch of Christianity which turned to 'indoctrinating' became the dominant force and thrust aside the sound teaching methods of those she deemed 'heretics' (those who disagreed with her man-made doctrines and methods of indoctrinating...that is by coercion).
     
  6. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    Ephesians 4 makes it so clear how important is sound doctrine.
     
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  7. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    pls tell me someone sees the built-in oxymoron there?
    "facts all come with points of view" yeh? :)
     
  8. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    what? dude are we even reading the same op? who said "doctrine is worthless?" certainly not willy bro. That are way out of line imo
     
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  9. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Here is what this writer said: "Truth" is not just propositional truth statements within a belief-system of doctrinal theology by which orthodoxy is rationalistically determined.

    You can interpret this as "doctrine is not truth, therefore it is worthless". And Christians don't determine doctrine "rationalistically". So there are a couple of lies right there.

    This is another one of those deceivers who rejects Bible doctrine, and the apostle John said that many deceivers have gone out into the world. But for Paul, the first important item from Scripture was doctrine.


    All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    Jude calls the body of Christian doctrines "the faith which was once delivered to the saints", and tells Christians to earnestly contend for "the faith" because of these deceivers (who are very subtle).

    Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
     
  10. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Without the doctrines (teachings) of the Bible, well, I suppose not everyone holds the Bible in the same status I do. To me, It's teachings are what we can truly know about God.

    Replace the teachings of the Bible - it's doctrines - with your own interpretations of your own perceptions of your own experiences, and you truly will come to something that is all your own.

    Much love!
     
  11. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi @Willie T ,

    Maybe I misunderstood the point of the article you posted. If all you are trying to say is that we should stop using the word doctrine because it's come to mean something different from what it used to, OK, I don't mind saying teaching.

    How it came across to me was against what I'll term Fundamentalism, and for the purpose if saying, "How can you say what God really said?"

    But I never mind finding out I'm wrong about something, it just means I'm gaining.

    Much love!
     
  12. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    i beg to disagree, and firmly believe that religion is the other side of the coin of politics, myself, but there are also certainly those who trust in traditional doctrine. Thank God for ppl who disagree :)

    if you seek a king your religion will refelct it i guess
     
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  13. prism

    prism Blood-Soaked

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    Hear ye, hear ye! Let's get rid of all teaching/doctrine (that legalistic nasty thing) since Christianity is Christ.
    Let's chuck Romans, Galatians, Hebrews etc., etc., and go into Christian mysticism...then to Rome, where we can blindly obey the Pope or any other cult leader. Pleeeeze.
     
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  14. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours

    Development of doctrine in the Church, was primarily in response to those who taught something contrary to the 'traditions' that were handed down from the apostles...
    The Nicene creed being a prime example...

    We reject the doctrine (teaching) of our fathers and mothers before us at our peril...

    The Truth does not change...

    You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

    Peace be with you!

    Christ IS risen!
    Alleluia!
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
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  15. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    I think he was saying that far too many people may worship the writings (as the Jews do their Talmud) without really ever coming to know the author and experiencing Him living life through us.
     
  16. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    It certainly does not, but who among us has a perfectly clear picture of exactly what Truth is? Many will correctly say that Truth is Jesus and so it is, but we have exactly the same problem in seeing His face clearly, do we not?

    David wrote this:

    "When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek." Prov 27:8

    And the Apostle Paul wrote this:

    "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

    What we must do is love that Truth even while it is not clearly seen and while it remains as a vision "through a glass, darkly".

    Failure to do this will certainly result in our being deluded:

    "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" II Thess 2:10-11


    We must love it even when our vision of what it is and how it looks may remain unclear. We do live by faith as Paul says, "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen". Heb 11:1
     
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  17. dorian37grey

    dorian37grey Member

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    the doctrines of ....
    ever notice all these examples are "after" the cross
    please dont try to confuse the thief on the cross ; as he is already saved :)
    could it be that " doctrine" as well as the word heresy is just man attempt to try and show why he is right?

    ever see someone post a doctrine not trying to show themselves to be right ?

    my view ; it either right ( as close as we know ) or its wrong (as close as we know) and most of the time to our preciseness is based on how must we have listen to the bible story ( not just the parts we have made doctrine :)

    to willie t ; very good topic
     
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  18. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    (It's long, but worth it)
    Teaching vs. Indoctrinating Your Children
    December 5, 2016 December 5, 2016 Editor's Pick
    Written by unknown.

    What is the difference between teaching and indoctrinating?

    It’s a question that we don’t often think too deeply about, because the answer feels pretty obvious. It’s something bad that other people do to teach children falsehood before they know any better. Teaching is concerned with truth, and indoctrination is concerned with ridiculous dogma.

    But from an objective perspective, it’s hard to tell who is doing the indoctrinating and who isn’t. Some feel like schools are indoctrinating children with Darwinian Evolution and atheism, while others feel that parents are indoctrinating their children with religious creationism. Perhaps the Patels are indoctrinating their children to Hinduism, or perhaps the Smiths are indoctrinating their children into Christianity. Perhaps both. One family’s children are being indoctrinated with liberal talking points, and another with conservative rhetoric.

    With all these opportunities for indoctrination, it’s likely every family is doing it to some degree. Everyone wants to teach their kids the truth, but we’ll inevitably teach our children to believe things that are actually wrong. This thought has terrified me (in a vague, back-of-the-mind kind of way) for years. And I don’t think I’m the only one, either. I want my kids to be smarter than me, not saddled down with the same beliefs I’m too biased to critically analyze.

    Is it Possible to Teach without Indoctrinating?
    To get that answer, let’s figure out what the exact definition of indoctrination is. I looked around to see what various dictionaries said. Once upon a time, the words “education” and “indoctrination” were synonymous. But that’s not the way the word is generally used today. Here are a few of the more standard definitions:

    • to teach (someone) to fully accept the ideas, opinions, and beliefs of a particular group and to not consider other ideas, opinions, and beliefs (Merriam-Webster)

    • to instruct in a doctrine, principle, ideology, etc., especially to imbue with a specific partisan or biased belief or point of view. (Dictionary.com)

    • teach doctrines to; teach uncritically (Vocabulary.com)

    • to often repeat an idea or belief to someone in order to persuade them to accept it (Cambridge)

    • teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically (Oxford)

      Almost all of these definitions include teaching, but with some extra caveats. It’s to teach to accept an idea uncritically, from a biased point of view. The Merriam-Webster definition includes being sheltered from other perspectives – only sources which support belief are used. So if we want to teach without indoctrinating, we should avoid or counteract these tendencies as we teach.

      How to Avoid Indoctrination
      The rest of this article will focus on how to avoid indoctrinating your children. If you are among those who is all for it, the following techniques will greatly undermine your efforts. However, it will also help immunize your children to others who would indoctrinate your children, so perhaps you’ll still come out ahead.

      Teaching Uncritically
      Teaching “uncritically” means to avoid and/or discourage the questioning of certain ideas. The best way to prevent this is to teach critical thinking. To me, critical thinking means two things:
    1. Learning to recognize and eliminate fallacies and bias from your own thought, and
    2. Believing something to the degree that evidence supports it.

    To quote from another article, “It is a way of thinking in which you don’t simply accept all arguments and conclusions you are exposed to but rather have an attitude involving questioning such arguments and conclusions.” This is the kind of thing a lot of people don’t learn much about until college (if then), so how do we teach it to our kids?

    The article linked above lists three core skills that you can help your children develop: Encourage and help your children develop curiosity, skepticism, and humility. Here are some specific things you can do.

    • Tell your children silly things, but assert them as if they’re true. Support them with bad logic, and have the child figure out how/why it’s wrong.

    • When you realize you were wrong about something, use the opportunity to show your kids that it’s OK to be wrong and everyone should keep learning.

    • Critically analyze advertising, politics, and other forms of deceptive media with your children.

    • Don’t tell your children that there’s anything they’re not allowed to question critically.

    • Teach about specific types of fallacies, perhaps with the Illustrated Book of Bad Arguments.

    • Every so often, use the Socratic Method with your children. The goal should be to teach them to think critically about their own beliefs and reveal complexity and nuance even with seemingly clear issues. It should not be used to simply disprove or intellectually intimidate your child.

      “Sheltered” Teaching
      Avoiding this aspect of indoctrination is perhaps the most straightforward of all. Rather than teaching about only one religion, one political philosophy, or one side of an ethical issue, seek out information, people, and experiences that will expose your children to other viewpoints. If you’re Democrats, watch a Republican debate or watch The O’Reilly Factor. Every so often, attend worship services for other religions. Take public transportation and talk with people you meet. Read books and watch good movies together that help children empathize with people in other cultures, with different beliefs.

      Biased Teaching
      Indoctrination involves teaching in a biased way. Unfortunately, there is no way to teach without bias. Everyone is biased, and most people aren’t aware of it. However, it’s possible to limit your bias by learning more about common biases.

      Of particular importance is Confirmation Bias, which is the tendency to seek out information that supports our pre-existing beliefs (because it makes us feel good), while feeling very uncomfortable with and avoiding information that contradicts those beliefs. This is what drives people to get news from sources biased toward their political beliefs, spend time on Facebook groups that reinforce their particular stance on an issue, and stops people from deeply investigating other religions.

      Limiting bias in teaching doesn’t mean you should withhold opinions on what is right and wrong. It does mean you should try to acknowledge those biases with your children and try harder to present opposing viewpoints in a fair manner.

      Conclusion
      A lot can be said on this subject. In fact, books have been written on it! If you are interested in more, I recommend the book Raising Freethinkers. While it is primarily written with a nonreligious audience in mind, its main focus is how to teach your children to be immune to indoctrination, and instead form their own well-supported beliefs. It’s full of practical advice.

      I’ll leave you with this fantastic quote:
      “Ideally, what should be said to every child, repeatedly, throughout his or her school life is something like this: ‘You are in the process of being indoctrinated. We have not yet evolved a system of education that is not a system of indoctrination. We are sorry, but it is the best we can do. What you are being taught here is an amalgam of current prejudice and the choices of this particular culture. The slightest look at history will show how impermanent these must be. You are being taught by people who have been able to accommodate themselves to a regime of thought laid down by their predecessors. It is a self-perpetuating system. Those of you who are more robust and individual than others will be encouraged to leave and find ways of educating yourself — educating your own judgments. Those that stay must remember, always, and all the time, that they are being moulded and patterned to fit into the narrow and particular needs of this particular society.” — from The Golden Notebook by Doris Lessing, Nobel Laureate in Literature

      Originally published at The Building Light.
     
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  19. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I can't seem to separate knowing God from knowing the Bible. I know God through both my interactions with Him, but also the Bible, which actually goes above my own interactions with God.

    For one thing, the Bible is a great part of God's voice to humanity, and He speaks to me very personally through it. God knew me when He wrote His Book, and I think it shows.

    Another perhaps more important, I consider God's revelations through His prophets and apostles to be the test for my own ideas and imaginations, as that may be all they are.

    Reminds me of those "The Bible as Literature" classes they used to have. I can't imagine anyone is doing That anymore!

    Much love!
     
  20. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion the doctrines of God's Word has been twisted by man's religious interpretations and making it doctrines of men.....so doctrines has become a controversial issue between fellow Christians because of what their church "doctrine" supports as their core beliefs....and it really irks me when a church demands that you agree with their doctrine to be a member.
     
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