The word of God vs people's understanding of it

[Zao is life]

John 10
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand.
29 My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand.
30 I and the Father are one!

The word of God vs people's understanding of it (i.e the opinions of those who believe in Christ).​

So these are discussion forums, we are supposed to be able to discuss, debate and even argue about our understanding of the prophetic Word of God, which is good.

BUT since when does one saint have superiority and Divine "authority" over all others? Since when are Christians, Christ's flock, not following the Word of God when they disagree with what someone says just because that other person believes that what He says is "the Word of God" ?

And since when has God revealed something to anyone that He has not revealed in scripture to all?

Blowing smoke is not of the Spirit of God. Neither is blowing your own trumpet. Neither is claiming Divine "authority" of your own opinions when there are many saved Christians who disagree with some things you say.

None of that is of the Spirit of Christ - and neither is trying to gather a following for yourself of "like-minded" people who agree with everything you say.

NEWSFLASH: Anyone who wants to impress you will hide the fact that he does not agree with everything you say, and the same goes for anyone who you have managed to psychologically bully into submission to your interpretations of the Bible.

No one here IS the Holy Spirit Himself. No one. You who think you have Divine "authority" over all your interpretations of scripture do not have such authority.

We are all fallible, and that means that we are all under a false impression here and there - which is why there is always space to debate and discuss and argue about our different views in forums like these.

Those who claim otherwise and try and gather a following for themselves are false prophets.

Edited: Just so anyone doesn't get it (or pretends not to notice), this thread is in the prophecy and eschatology forum: meaning (of course) that it this is not talking about the fundamentals of the faith.

 

[marks]

We are all fallible, and that means that we are all under a false impression here and there - which is why there is always space to debate and discuss and argue about our different views in forums like these.

It's foolishness to me to not seek correction, and that has a large part of why I'm here. I'm here to to have my views challenged. Because if I don't have it right, it won't stand.

But if I don't have something right, I want to find that out as quickly as I can!! There is only loss in pursuing the wrong path.

But when someone argues not based on what the Bible says, instead saying things like, If you were more spiritual you'd understand, stuff like that, or claims authority like you've said, to turn the Word backwards, yes, that is not right. The one who speaks God's Word will ALWAYS be in agreement with the Bible itself, not in some esoteric way, some arcane understanding, but clearly, plainly understood.

I've concluded that the better we understand Biblical truths, the more plainly we will see them stated in the very words the Bible uses. And the better able we will be to state them plainly, using the same words the Bible uses.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

It's foolishness to me to not seek correction, and that has a large part of why I'm here. I'm here to to have my views challenged. Because if I don't have it right, it won't stand.

But if I don't have something right, I want to find that out as quickly as I can!! There is only loss in pursuing the wrong path.

But when someone argues not based on what the Bible says, instead saying things like, If you were more spiritual you'd understand, stuff like that, or claims authority like you've said, to turn the Word backwards, yes, that is not right. The one who speaks God's Word will ALWAYS be in agreement with the Bible itself, not in some esoteric way, some arcane understanding, but clearly, plainly understood.

I've concluded that the better we understand Biblical truths, the more plainly we will see them stated in the very words the Bible uses. And the better able we will be to state them plainly, using the same words the Bible uses.

Much love!

I agree. The fact that we
(a) disagree with one another about God's Word and what God is actually saying in places,

shows that we are fallible.

And the fact that I (not we)

(b) have reacted to some posts in fleshly or less than gracious way,

shows that I am fallible x 2.

But we are all fallible.

 

[marks]

BUT since when does one saint have superiority and Divine "authority" over all others? Since when are Christians, Christ's flock, not following the Word of God when they disagree with what someone says just because that other person believes that what He says is "the Word of God" ?

And since when has God revealed something to anyone that He has not revealed in scripture to all?

There are gifts of prophecy and teaching, and the ministries of the pastor/teachers, and the elders/overseers. Each of these are given a special designation to teach. But they are all call to teach what is true, so there must be a standard by which we can know who they are.

And what could that standard be except that when they've taught a truth, you will see that truth in the Scriptures. If you do not see it in the Scriptures, well, maybe that's because it's not there.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

There are gifts of prophecy and teaching, and the ministries of the pastor/teachers, and the elders/overseers. Each of these are given a special designation to teach. But they are all call to teach what is true, so there must be a standard by which we can know who they are.

And what could that standard be except that when they've taught a truth, you will see that truth in the Scriptures. If you do not see it in the Scriptures, well, maybe that's because it's not there.

Much love!

I sort of agree, but those who have the gift of prophecy/teaching or are called to teach in one church from behind the puplit, say and teach things that don't agree with what those in another church say and teach from behind the pulpit.

it's just maybe a good thing that in a church we can either keep quiet when we don't agree with what someone is saying when he's standing behind a pulpit, or get asked to leave because we're causing division and disruption.

But this a a forum, which is created for the purpose .. so it's a legitimate place to debate and argue over the finer details of what God is saying in every part of the Bible, as long as we know every human is fallible, and just because we have the guidance of the Holy Spirit, doesn't mean there is no place where our fallible human minds doesn't make it 100% possible for each one of us to add a little or subtract a little or reinterpret it "just a little" from what God is actually saying.

 

[marks]

I sort of agree, but those who have the gift of prophecy/teaching or are called to teach in one church from behind the puplit, say and teach things that don't agree with what those in another church say and teach from behind the pulpit.

it's just maybe a good thing that in a church we can either keep quiet when we don't agree with what someone is saying when he's standing behind a pulpit, or get asked to leave because we're causing division and disruption.

But this a a forum, which is created for the purpose .. so it's a legitimate place to debate and argue over the finer details of what God is saying in every part of the Bible, as long as we know every human is fallible, and just because we have the guidance of the Holy Spirit, doesn't mean there is no place where our fallible human minds doesn't make it 100% possible for each one of us to add a little or subtract a little or reinterpret it "just a little" from what God is actually saying.

I don't disagree here at all.

This is all more reason to me to look to being able to match what the teacher teaches to what we read for ourselves in the Bible. The Bible itself has to be the final authority, but more than that, it has to be a practical authority, one which actually provides it's leadership to the rank and file.

So it must be written in a way to authenticate the message.

Much love!

 

[marks]

BUT since when does one saint have superiority and Divine "authority" over all others? Since when are Christians, Christ's flock, not following the Word of God when they disagree with what someone says just because that other person believes that what He says is "the Word of God" ?

And of course what James wrote,

James 3:13 LITV
Who is wise and knowing among you? Let him show his works by his good behavior, in meekness of wisdom.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

And of course what James wrote,

James 3:13 LITV
Who is wise and knowing among you? Let him show his works by his good behavior, in meekness of wisdom.

Much love!

Yes. And he also wrote:

But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and with no reproach, and it shall be given to him. James 1:5

I haven't put that into practice nearly enough, and I'm aware of it, so I've been trying to remind myself to ask as part of my daily prayers.

Compared to God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit, we all lack wisdom - badly. (yes, mine has shown too)

 

[marks]

But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and with no reproach, and it shall be given to him. James 1:5

I haven't put that into practice nearly enough, and I'm aware of it, so I've been trying to remind myself to ask as part of my daily prayers.

I find that I ask God to show me the meanings of passages, and in a moment, or an hour, or a day, or a week later, I'll be looking at another passage with that one in mind, and see the connection, and receive understanding.

I truly believe God answers our questions, but doubt and double mindedness will stand in our way.

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

I find that I ask God to show me the meanings of passages, and in a moment, or an hour, or a day, or a week later, I'll be looking at another passage with that one in mind, and see the connection, and receive understanding.

I truly believe God answers our questions, but doubt and double mindedness will stand in our way.

Much love!

Yeah I've always done that with regard to scripture. But I mean wisdom generally.

 

[amadeus]

I agree. The fact that we
(a) disagree with one another about God's Word and what God is actually saying in places,

shows that we are fallible.

And the fact that I (not we)

(b) have reacted to some posts in fleshly or less than gracious way,

shows that I am fallible x 2.

But we are all fallible.

I suspect or believe that only those who have overcome all obstacles standing between themselves and God as Jesus did, are infallible. If ever I have met such a one aside from Jesus himself, I was doubtless unable in my own fallibility to recognize what I was seeing. Help us dear Lord!

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Paul told Timothy in 1 Tim. 3:15 that the people who are in God's Church have the monopoly on the truth. So obviously, it stands to reason that 1 person's take on a biblical matter holds more weight than others if what they say and practice is based solely on what the Bible actually teaches. Let's not pretend all ideas are equally valid just because the people who argue for them claim to be a Christian. If you were a professing Christian in the 1st century, would you be more likely to take an apostle's word over a deceiver's word, or would you would be like "Paul shouldn't be trying to make himself sound like his words have more authority than the Gnostic believers"?

Believing on Christ means absolutely nothing if the person making unbiblical claims isn't telling the truth. Someone can be wrong at times because we're not infallible as human beings , but the Bible teaches in no uncertain terms that whoever continues to teach contrary to the truth when they are given ample evidence/proof of their error is a deceiver. It's really that simple, no matter how uncomfortable that may be for anyone to wrap their head around or accept.

The biggest problem i have with your statement other than the false humility is the fact that you say debating and arguing about the way we understand scripture is good, and anyone with a good understanding of the Bible knows that is a wholesale lie. The Bible says there is only 1 true brand of Christianity while all others are satanic counterfeits. If someone's brand of Christianity doesn't mirror the brand God established through the apostles, it is a counterfeit.

You come across as a hypocrite because you are trying to impress other people into believing everybody's ideas are equally valid as long as they "believe on Christ" while trying to determine for everybody else how discussions should be handled. Take your own advice and get off the pedestal you took so much pride in erecting for yourself. You may be impressing people with your false humility, but i'm not one of them.

 

[Zao is life]

Paul told Timothy in 1 Tim. 3:15 that the people who are in God's Church have the monopoly on the truth. So obviously, it stands to reason that 1 person's take on a biblical matter holds more weight than others if what they say and practice is based solely on what the Bible actually teaches. Let's not pretend all ideas are equally valid just because the people who argue for them claim to be a Christian. If you were a professing Christian in the 1st century, would you be more likely to take an apostle's word over a deceiver's word, or would you would be like "Paul shouldn't be trying to make himself sound like his words have more authority than the Gnostic believers"?

Believing on Christ means absolutely nothing if the person making unbiblical claims isn't telling the truth. Someone can be wrong at times because we're not infallible as human beings , but the Bible teaches in no uncertain terms that whoever continues to teach contrary to the truth when they are given ample evidence/proof of their error is a deceiver. It's really that simple, no matter how uncomfortable that may be for anyone to wrap their head around or accept.

The biggest problem i have with your statement other than the false humility is the fact that you say debating and arguing about the way we understand scripture is good, and anyone with a good understanding of the Bible knows that is a wholesale lie. The Bible says there is only 1 true brand of Christianity while all others are satanic counterfeits. If someone's brand of Christianity doesn't mirror the brand God established through the apostles, it is a counterfeit.

You come across as a hypocrite because you are trying to impress other people into believing everybody's ideas are equally valid as long as they "believe on Christ" while trying to determine for everybody else how discussions should be handled. Take your own advice and get off the pedestal you took so much pride in erecting for yourself. You may be impressing people with your false humility, but i'm not one of them.

John 10
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand.
29 My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand.
30 I and the Father are one!

The word of God vs people's understanding of it (i.e the opinions of those who believe in Christ).

So these are discussion forums, we are supposed to be able to discuss, debate and even argue about our understanding of the prophetic Word of God, which is good.

BUT since when does one saint have superiority and Divine "authority" over all others? Since when are Christians, Christ's flock, not following the Word of God when they disagree with what someone says just because that other person believes that what He says is "the Word of God" ?

And since when has God revealed something to anyone that He has not revealed in scripture to all?

Blowing smoke is not of the Spirit of God. Neither is blowing your own trumpet. Neither is claiming Divine "authority" of your own opinions when there are many saved Christians who disagree with some things you say.

None of that is of the Spirit of Christ - and neither is trying to gather a following for yourself of "like-minded" people who agree with everything you say.

NEWSFLASH: Anyone who wants to impress you will hide the fact that he does not agree with everything you say, and the same goes for anyone who you have managed to psychologically bully into submission to your interpretations of the Bible.

No one here IS the Holy Spirit Himself. No one. You who think you have Divine "authority" over all your interpretations of scripture do not have such authority.

We are all fallible, and that means that we are all under a false impression here and there - which is why there is always space to debate and discuss and argue about our different views in forums like these.

Those who claim otherwise and try and gather a following for themselves are false prophets.

Edited: Just so anyone doesn't get it (or pretends not to notice), this thread is in the prophecy and eschatology forum: meaning (of course) that it this is not talking about the fundamentals of the faith.

 

[Davy]

John 10
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand.
29 My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand.
30 I and the Father are one!

The word of God vs people's understanding of it (i.e the opinions of those who believe in Christ).​

So these are discussion forums, we are supposed to be able to discuss, debate and even argue about our understanding of the Word of God, which is good.

BUT since when does one saint have superiority and Divine "authority" over all others? Since when are Christians, Christ's flock, not following the Word of God when they disagree with what someone says just because that other person believes that what He says is "the Word of God" ?

And since when has God revealed something to anyone that He has not revealed in scripture to all?

Blowing smoke is not of the Spirit of God. Neither is blowing your own trumpet. Neither is claiming Divine "authority" of your own opinions when there are many saved Christians who disagree with some things you say.

None of that is of the Spirit of Christ - and neither is trying to gather a following for yourself of "like-minded" people who agree with everything you say.

NEWSFLASH: Anyone who wants to impress you will hide the fact that he does not agree with everything you say, and the same goes for anyone who you have managed to psychologically bully into submission to your interpretations of the Bible.

No one here IS the Holy Spirit Himself. No one. You who think you have Divine "authority" over all your interpretations of scripture do not have such authority.

We are all fallible, and that means that we are all under a false impression here and there - which is why there is always space to debate and discuss and argue about our different views in forums like these.

Those who claim otherwise and try and gather a following for themselves are false prophets.

It's easy... for one who actually disciplines theirself in all of God's written Word to know when others are simply pushing a man-made tradition not written in God's Word. NONE of that is about your simple differences in opinion idea.

Apostle Paul warned about these times today about those who reject sound doctrine written in God's Word...

2 Tim 4:2-4
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
KJV

 

[Zao is life]

It's easy... for one who actually disciplines theirself in all of God's written Word to know when others are simply pushing a man-made tradition not written in God's Word. NONE of that is about your simple differences in opinion idea.

Apostle Paul warned about these times today about those who reject sound doctrine written in God's Word...

2 Tim 4:2-4
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
KJV

John 10
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand.
29 My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand.
30 I and the Father are one!

The word of God vs people's understanding of it (i.e the opinions of those who believe in Christ).

So these are discussion forums, we are supposed to be able to discuss, debate and even argue about our understanding of the prophetic Word of God, which is good.

BUT since when does one saint have superiority and Divine "authority" over all others? Since when are Christians, Christ's flock, not following the Word of God when they disagree with what someone says just because that other person believes that what He says is "the Word of God" ?

And since when has God revealed something to anyone that He has not revealed in scripture to all?

Blowing smoke is not of the Spirit of God. Neither is blowing your own trumpet. Neither is claiming Divine "authority" of your own opinions when there are many saved Christians who disagree with some things you say.

None of that is of the Spirit of Christ - and neither is trying to gather a following for yourself of "like-minded" people who agree with everything you say.

NEWSFLASH: Anyone who wants to impress you will hide the fact that he does not agree with everything you say, and the same goes for anyone who you have managed to psychologically bully into submission to your interpretations of the Bible.

No one here IS the Holy Spirit Himself. No one. You who think you have Divine "authority" over all your interpretations of scripture do not have such authority.

We are all fallible, and that means that we are all under a false impression here and there - which is why there is always space to debate and discuss and argue about our different views in forums like these.

Those who claim otherwise and try and gather a following for themselves are false prophets.

Edited: Just so anyone doesn't get it (or pretends not to notice), this thread is in the prophecy and eschatology forum: meaning (of course) that it this is not talking about the fundamentals of the faith.

 

[Davy]

John 10
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand.
29 My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand.
30 I and the Father are one!

The word of God vs people's understanding of it (i.e the opinions of those who believe in Christ).

So these are discussion forums, we are supposed to be able to discuss, debate and even argue about our understanding of the prophetic Word of God, which is good.

BUT since when does one saint have superiority and Divine "authority" over all others? Since when are Christians, Christ's flock, not following the Word of God when they disagree with what someone says just because that other person believes that what He says is "the Word of God" ?

And since when has God revealed something to anyone that He has not revealed in scripture to all?

Blowing smoke is not of the Spirit of God. Neither is blowing your own trumpet. Neither is claiming Divine "authority" of your own opinions when there are many saved Christians who disagree with some things you say.

None of that is of the Spirit of Christ - and neither is trying to gather a following for yourself of "like-minded" people who agree with everything you say.

NEWSFLASH: Anyone who wants to impress you will hide the fact that he does not agree with everything you say, and the same goes for anyone who you have managed to psychologically bully into submission to your interpretations of the Bible.

No one here IS the Holy Spirit Himself. No one. You who think you have Divine "authority" over all your interpretations of scripture do not have such authority.

We are all fallible, and that means that we are all under a false impression here and there - which is why there is always space to debate and discuss and argue about our different views in forums like these.

Those who claim otherwise and try and gather a following for themselves are false prophets.

Edited: Just so anyone doesn't get it (or pretends not to notice), this thread is in the prophecy and eschatology forum: meaning (of course) that it this is not talking about the fundamentals of the faith.

You are complaining. Doesn't matter what section you put your complaint in, it's still an unfounded complaint, and it appears to reject the doctrine of rebuke that Apostle Paul taught. These last days certainly is a time when many have itching ears like Paul said, drawing teachers to themselves, which means wanting to listen to those who preach 'smooth things', instead of staying with God's written Word.