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The Wrath of the Lord

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by keras, Aug 17, 2015.

  1. Marcus O'Reillius

    Marcus O'Reillius Active Member

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    Standing in opposition to your opinions and ideas is not standing in opposition to Jesus. You claim to possess the truth, but that is just a measure of your delusion.

    Jesus said we are gathered up.
    Jesus said He would come back for us, and take us to where He is now: Heaven.
    Jesus showed John the Great Multitude from every nation, tribe, language and people, having come out of the Great Tribulation, standing before Father on His Throne in Heaven.

    Isaiah did not say the sun would explode on the Day of the Lord.
     
  2. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

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    The Bible is the Truth, I just present it.

    Yes, the Lord's righteous people will be gathered. Not to heaven, but into the holy Land.

    Jesus said:...I will come again and where I am there you will be. He is coming back to earth and His people with live with Him there.

    You add words to Revelation, heaven is not mentioned in that scripture. Revelation 22:18 be upon you!

    Isaiah said: the sun will shine seven times brighter .... Explain that as something other than an explosion.
     
  3. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    Yes it IS, and as you can't prove me wrong, or won't even try, it stands as defacto truth.
    I resolved in my own spirit years ago to not worry about being ready, and just be.
    Most men/women will have regrets on their deathbed, but being ready won't be one of mine.
     
  4. Marcus O'Reillius

    Marcus O'Reillius Active Member

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    You don't present the truth through your words when you malign Scripture. You even cite Scripture saying it says something, and often when checked - it doesn't mean anything close to what you allege.

    It's a rather serious condition to think you know the truth when you opine about God's Word and misconstrue it so - like saying the sun will erupt in a never-seen-before coronal discharge that will cover millions of miles to burn a third of the earth - as the "truth" behind Isaiah 30:26.
     
  5. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

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    Perhaps someone would like to give their idea as to what the 'Sword' the Lord will use on His Day of wrath, will be?

    [SIZE=medium]Isaiah 34:5-8 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]The Lord has a Day of vengeance[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], the Redeemer of Zion has a time for retribution. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]His sword will appear in the sky, see how it descends in judgement[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] onto a people whom the Lord has doomed to destruction. Great will be [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]the slaughter in Edom[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] and He has [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]a sacrifice in Bozrah[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], His sword of punishment will be sated with blood, the earth will drink deeply of their blood.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]Isaiah 63:1-6 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Who is this, coming from [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Bozrah[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] and [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Edom[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] with His garments splashed with blood, striding along in His mighty power? It is the Lord, proclaiming victory, He who is strong to save. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]He treads the winepress of the nations[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], with no one to help Him. He tramples them in His fury, shatters them in His anger and spills their blood all over the ground. The Lord has resolved on a Day of vengeance, because [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]the year for redeeming His own has come[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]. [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]Jeremiah 49:12-13 & 22 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]These are the Words of the Lord: Those who were not doomed to drink the cup of My wrath, must drink it none the less: are you alone to go unpunished? You will not be spared, [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]I will judge you as well.[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] I will swoop down upon [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Bozrah[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] and on that Day, [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Edom[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] will lose all their strength. I swear that [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Bozrah[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] will become desolate, an object of reproach and all her towns will be ruined forever. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium][Not for all time, see: Ezekiel 36:33-36, Isaiah 61:4][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]Amos 1:12 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]I shall send fire[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] to consume the palaces of [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Bozrah.[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]Ref: REB, NIV. [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]Bozrah[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] – Hebrew = a sheepfold, also means: glad tidings. At present Bozrah can be identified as the place where the true descendants of Jacob currently side.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]Edom[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] – the descendants of Esau, a metaphor for non-Israelite peoples. Edom may represent every other nationality of the world. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=medium]Scripture References:[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium][/SIZE][SIZE=medium]The Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath’[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], [Not the same Day as the Return of the Messiah] Psalm 11:4-6, Rev. 6:12-17, Isaiah 2:12-21, Isaiah 13:9-13, Isaiah 61:2b, Isaiah 66:15-16, Ezekiel 30:1-3, Joel 2:11 &31, Micah 5:15, Nahum 1:2-6, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Malachi 4:1, Romans 1:18, 2 Peter 3:7 & 10[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium][/SIZE][SIZE=medium]His sword appears in the sky and descends in judgement’[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Isaiah 30:25-28, Jeremiah 4:20-28, Jeremiah 23:19, Jeremiah 47:6-7, Jeremiah 50:35-38, Ezekiel 21:3-7 & 14-16[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium][/SIZE][SIZE=medium]He treads the winepress of the nations’[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Revelation 14:17-20, Jeremiah 9:21-22, Jeremiah 25:30-33, Jeremiah 49:35-37, Habakkuk 3:12, Psalm 65:1-3[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]‘I shall send fire’, [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Ezekiel 20:46-48, Joel 1:19-20, Amos 1:4,7,10,12,14. Amos 2:2,5. Obadiah 1:18, Zephaniah 3:8, Hebrews 10:27[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium][/SIZE][SIZE=medium]I will judge you as well’[/SIZE][SIZE=medium], [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Ezekiel 23:32-34, Obadiah 1:16, Jeremiah 30:11, Ezekiel 7:1-27, Hosea 4:1-3, Hosea 12:2, Amos 4:12[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=medium]‘The year for redeeming My own has come’[/SIZE][SIZE=medium],[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] We are nearing the end of this age, the Lord will take action in His creation, as He did so long ago: in the days of Noah. Isaiah 66:15-16, Micah 5:10-15, Habakkuk 3:12, Ezekiel 7:14[/SIZE]

     
  6. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    I guess one should read the bible and determinbe which part God spoke and which part he didnt before calling it all Gods word. One gets revelation from God, that is His truth His undersating, you dont get it from bible college, reading books, seminary school and it doesnt come with any certificates, it is why Jesus gave us all teh holy Ghost whom is so ignored. Its all about Truth. God said He will never flood teh world again. teh promise to Moses with the rainbow, Jesus says he will come as a consuming Fire, I guess the wrold is going to get very Hot.
     
  7. Marcus O'Reillius

    Marcus O'Reillius Active Member

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    The Bible is the inspired Word of God.
     
  8. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

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    The inspired Word of God says He will send fire upon the earth. Over 70 prophesies say that His judgement of the nations will be by fire.
    Hebrews 10:27.....a terrible fierce fire that will consume God's enemies.

    As we are told where this fire will come from, we know it will be for just one Day and then pass on into outer space, so most people will survive under cover and His faithful people know to trust in Him for protection, calling on the Name of the Lord. Psalms 50:1-6
     
  9. Marcus O'Reillius

    Marcus O'Reillius Active Member

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    Pass on into outer space... Yeah right. More fanciful notions about Isaiah 30:26.
     
  10. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    That is NOT what the inspired word of God says Keras. This verse in Heb 10:27 refers to the Lake of Fire, and quite probably not literal given it is for the dead. You seem to not be able to separate the metaphorical and hyperbolic from the literal?
    Psalms is what it is likened to, NOT what it is. How can one describe something one has NEVER seen. Was the burning bush consumed? NO!
     
  11. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

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    More unsupported opinions.
    The prophets 'saw' what they wrote about in visions.
    Why shouldn't Hebrews 10:27 be literal? It is written as though it is and it matches the many prophesies that tell us about the Lord's Day of fire judgement against the nations. Luke 12:49
     
  12. Marcus O'Reillius

    Marcus O'Reillius Active Member

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    Hebrews 10 is not an eschatogoical passage, but a call to repentance and obedience. The faithful are called to obey by presenting the ultimate alternative: eternal death. Besides, not all the wicked die by fire in the one 'seven', a third of the wicked die by their own hand in war. Still more die by heat and lack of water with the Bowl Judgments. Focusing only on one of three elements of the Day of the Lord (blood, fire, and smoke) has rabbi keras myopically focused on any verse mentioning fire, and so he connects every dot to the same conclusion.

    Likewise in Luke 12, Jesus is not speaking about the Day of the Lord per se, but about obedience between the slaves, their attitude, knowledge, and punishment. The fire the Lord will cast is not stated literally per se either, and can be read in a figurative sense for the fire of faith which ran through the Apostles on Pentecost, or even in a broader sense to light up the whole world in division. Alternately, it can also reference the Day of the Lord, but again, that fire burns a third of the earth; prophecy does say how many it kills over the whole earth. However again, when you myopically focus on any verse with fire - everything becomes a consuming fire of earthly judgment in the same way that if the only tool you have is a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail.
     
  13. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    I really do one day hope that you migh ask Him that question?
     
  14. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    The scriptures support themselves in this regard keras. Heb 10:27 only builds upon what 9:27 states, which is we die and then we face the judgment, which if you actually KNEW the scriptures, you would know happens just before the second death, which is IN the lake of fire, NOT a literal place, as it is for spirits. Like I said, you have no idea about the different styles used in scripture.
     
  15. Marcus O'Reillius

    Marcus O'Reillius Active Member

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    Really? Straining gnats are we?
     
  16. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Nah they dont taste nice.

    Just imgine someone writing a book on your behalf, than putting your name to it and demanding that you must agree with it even when it mis represents you. You would get mad wouldnt you. Good thing God understands mans foolish ways.

    And the ywont go to Him so they can have life. Pity.
     
  17. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

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    StanJ, Hebrews 10:27 is paralleled by 2 Peter 3:7 and all the OT prophesies about the Day of judgement/punishment of the nations by fire.

    Saying you are a lifetime student of God's Word means you are wise and learned, right?
    Sadly for you and all the Bible scholars esteemed by the world, Paul says: the wise must become as fools and the Lord traps the wise in their own learning. 1 Cor. 3:18-20
    Jesus said; Father, You hide these things from the learned and wise, revealing them to the simple. Matthew 11:25

     
  18. Marcus O'Reillius

    Marcus O'Reillius Active Member

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    What are you talking about - it really doesn't make sense.

    Jesus, who is the Word of God, said it: there is but one way to the Father, thought him, Jesus - and the Bible is all about Him.

    Either you agree that Jesus is Lord, which is not misrepresented, or you say He isn't. Up or down. One way or the other. And that's a fact Jack.
     
  19. Marcus O'Reillius

    Marcus O'Reillius Active Member

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    Nope.

    27 Far from any sacrifice to put away the sins of the apostates, "only a fearful expectation of judgment" awaits such people. The nature of this expectation is not defined, and the fact that the fate of these evil persons is left indefinite makes the warning all the more impressive. The adjective phoberos ("fearful") is unusual; it occurs elsewhere in the NT only in v. 31 and 12:21 and conveys the idea of "frightening." The judgment of the person still bearing his sins is a terrible one. The writer describes it as "raging fire" (possibly borrowed from Isa 26:11), which is a vivid expression for "the fire of judgment that, with its blazing flames, appears like a living being intent on devouring God's adversaries" (BAG, p. 338). The word "enemies" (hypenantious) shows that the apostates were not regarded as holding a neutral position. They have become the adversaries of God. -- Expositor's Bible Commentary.

    Hebrews 10 is not eschatological.
     
  20. ATP

    ATP New Member

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    I believe mjr is one of the saints. Take it easy Marcus and give yourself a rest.
     
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