Theology is our thinking!! Not the Lord's!!

[Episkopos]

Wrong theology is the study of God where we get our sound doctrine which is taught by Jesus and the Apostles.

Your crazy idea about what a wrong theology does...it is rather a study that ignores sound doctrine which is taught by Jesus and His apostles.....while claiming to do so. Rather than calling that a "wrong theology" ....I would call that a lack of instruction....or else a false agenda. It depends how much ego is applied to it.

 

[Karl Peters]

Theology ...as the OP states...is in the realm of men. It is based on ideology and religious opinions.

I wrote a book that was put under the heading of "theology." But be that as it may, I teach doctrine, not theology. That and testimony. For me faith is about reality, not my beliefs about things.

I kind of like the above post, yet we all have our theology, and even our doctrines about God. And so when a person teaches another person, they will of course go back to teaching their theology (understanding of God) and also their doctrines (the things they think are true! Which is just saying that we teach what we believe to be true.

When I say we all have our theology, I did not exclude myself!! My theology is that Jesus Christ is the Lord and that He is always with me, because He sent His Holy Spirit to be with my spirit. Now I believe that because I hear with my spiritual ears - which is to says I hear from spirits. Of course, that means I can pick up evil spirits, angels, and most importantly there is One whom I hear from who I call My Lord - just like it is written that faith comes from hearing and hearing by a word from Christ.

Because of my theology, that Jesus Christ is the Lord you I am hearing from, I both preach Him, and teach people about Him. Even my personal doctrines, like sitting in my favorite chair in the morning and praying the Lord's prayer with some other things and then seeking what He has to say to me, are based upon my theology that He (Jesus Christ) is there to be heard from. And the Bible backs me up on that!! So even my study of the Bible added to my theology, that He (Jesus Christ) is there to be heard from.

Still, having said that, I have still found that my theology, and even doctrines, are not exactly His theology (His understanding of Himself/ His thoughts) nor are my doctrines His doctrines. There are days that I go to sit down and in that favorite chair of my to pray the Lord's prayer and seek to listen to Him, when He starts telling me something like, "Not today Karl. Let's just go for a walk together and talk"

So, I find out that I too can get religious and start leaning on my understanding, my traditions, and my doctrines. Yet He talks to me and gets me again seeking Him, which again makes me realize that while I have by understanding, it is not His understanding. Of course that is why my understanding (my theology) is that I need to seek Him for His understanding!

 

[Episkopos]

I kind of like the above post, yet we all have our theology, and even our doctrines about God. And so when a person teaches another person, they will of course go back to teaching their theology (understanding of God) and also their doctrines (the things they think are true! Which is just saying that we teach what we believe to be true.

What is the bible to you? Is it a collection of theological opinions? Are the writers of the bible religious scholars who gravitate towards one form of doctrine or the other? Are they presenting their doctoral thesis..?

When I say we all have our theology, I did not exclude myself!!

Whew! Of course we judge so often from our own limited experience and understanding.

My theology is that Jesus Christ is the Lord and that He is always with me, because He sent His Holy Spirit to be with my spirit. Now I believe that because I hear with my spiritual ears - which is to says I hear from spirits. Of course, that means I can pick up evil spirits, angels, and most importantly there is One whom I hear from who I call My Lord - just like it is written that faith comes from hearing and hearing by a word from Christ.

I was wondering where that theology came from. Now I know.

Because of my theology, that Jesus Christ is the Lord you I am hearing from, I both preach Him, and teach people about Him. Even my personal doctrines, like sitting in my favorite chair in the morning and praying the Lord's prayer with some other things and then seeking what He has to say to me, are based upon my theology that He (Jesus Christ) is there to be heard from. And the Bible backs me up on that!! So even my study of the Bible added to my theology, that He (Jesus Christ) is there to be heard from.

So your theology is that you can claim to be hearing from the right spirit. Isn't that circular reasoning? It is such because you formulated a theology that puts you in good stead with God? Or are you merely indoctrinated?

Still, having said that, I have still found that my theology, and even doctrines, are not exactly His theology (His understanding of Himself/ His thoughts) nor are my doctrines His doctrines.

Houston.....we have a problem. Which theology do you prefer? God's or your own? Does God have a theology...opinions about Himself?

There are days that I go to sit down and in that favorite chair of my to pray the Lord's prayer and seek to listen to Him, when He starts telling me something like, "Not today Karl. Let's just go for a walk together and talk"

Were you suggesting going bowling or something?

So, I find out that I too can get religious and start leaning on my understanding, my traditions, and my doctrines. Yet He talks to me and gets me again seeking Him, which again makes me realize that while I have by understanding, it is not His understanding. Of course that is why my understanding (my theology) is that I need to seek Him for His understanding!

This is better, But you don't need a theology. Theologians do that.

 

[Karl Peters]

Wrong theology is the study of God where we get our sound doctrine which is taught by Jesus and the Apostles.

Do we get our sound doctrine through the "study of God" or though our relationship with God? What did Jesus and the Apostles teach?

Jn 8:47 “He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”

Gal 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

They were all saying to HEAR by faith. And hearing is not studying, is it? Talking back and forth with the Lord is about a relationship, not a study of Him, is it?

Rev 3:20 ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

I mean, isn't it obvious that if we indeed studied the Scriptures we would find out that it is about a relationship with Jesus Christ, right? It is about hearing Him speak to us!!

Is 1:2,3 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth;
For the LORD speaks,
“Sons I have reared and brought up,
But they have revolted against Me.

“An ox knows its owner,
And a donkey its master’s manger,
But Israel does not know,
My people do not understand.”

What we find in the Bible is that His people would not listen to Him and get to know Him. That did mean they too didn't go about studying about God, it means that their study didn't lead them to God like it should have!!!

Jn 5:46,47 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

The study is good, but it you don't believe in what your studied you won't seek Him and a personal relationship with Him!! Your theology, your study, your leaning on your own understanding has lead you wrong unless it resulted in seeking Jesus Christ and what He says! And if you did that you will have found a personal relationship with Jesus Christ!!

 

[Karl Peters]

What is the bible to you? Is it a collection of theological opinions? Are the writers of the bible religious scholars who gravitate towards one form of doctrine or the other? Are they presenting their doctoral thesis..?

Let me just answer this question really quick, because I have asked by Him to go for a little drive with Him.

The Bible is His textbook that He had written to help Him teach us!!

The problem then is that you don't listen to Him, or you would have understood that already and would have understood that is what I would have thought it to be. So you asked about " theological opinions", "religious scholars, and you "gravitate towards one form of doctrine or the other", because you still fail to realize that it is all about walking and talking with Him. Or in my case right now, it is about taking a little drive to the store with Him, like He asked me!!

Focus on Him and Him speaking to you and you will understand all I am saying!!

 

[ChristisGod]

Do we get our sound doctrine through the "study of God" or though our relationship with God? What did Jesus and the Apostles teach?

Jn 8:47 “He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”

Gal 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

They were all saying to HEAR by faith. And hearing is not studying, is it? Talking back and forth with the Lord is about a relationship, not a study of Him, is it?

Rev 3:20 ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

I mean, isn't it obvious that if we indeed studied the Scriptures we would find out that it is about a relationship with Jesus Christ, right? It is about hearing Him speak to us!!

Is 1:2,3 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth;
For the LORD speaks,
“Sons I have reared and brought up,
But they have revolted against Me.

“An ox knows its owner,
And a donkey its master’s manger,
But Israel does not know,
My people do not understand.”

What we find in the Bible is that His people would not listen to Him and get to know Him. That did mean they too didn't go about studying about God, it means that their study didn't lead them to God like it should have!!!

Jn 5:46,47 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

The study is good, but it you don't believe in what your studied you won't seek Him and a personal relationship with Him!! Your theology, your study, your leaning on your own understanding has lead you wrong unless it resulted in seeking Jesus Christ and what He says! And if you did that you will have found a personal relationship with Jesus Christ!!

What does study thyself mean below ?

2 Tim 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Joshua 1:8
This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success.

Acts 17:11
Acts 17:11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

 

[Karl Peters]

What does study thyself mean below ?

2 Tim 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Joshua 1:8
This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success.

Acts 17:11
Acts 17:11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

What does study thyself mean below ?

It means study - or as the first words the Lord personally told me - It means "READ YOUR BIBLE". Those were the first words the Lord told me personally. But if you indeed did study the Bible and believe what you studied do you not know that it is the Spirit, not the Bible, which gives you life?? So the foremost commandment in the Bible is "Hear, O Israel"???

Therefore the problem is that you don't believe what you studied, so you didn't seek the Lord Jesus Christ and thus do not find Him!!

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

You read, you study, but you don't believe!!! Show you are not studying to show your Lord that you listened to Him telling you personally to read the Bible, but out of pride you study and out of pride you lean on your own understanding instead of seeking Jesus Christ

Jn 5:39,40 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

Therefore you lean on your own understanding, even you own understanding of the Scriptures but are unwilling to come to Jesus Christ your Teacher for understanding!!

The Lord once told me:

WHAT TEACHER DOESN’T PUT A BOOK IN FRONT OF HIS STUDENTS TODAY; YET NOT JUST A BOOK BUT OVERHEAD TRANSPARENCIES, VISUALS, AND OTHER MATERIAL? FOR I TELL YOU TRULY, IF THEY ARE NOT LISTENING TO ME THEY ARE NOT MY PUPIL, THEY ARE NOT MY STUDENT; I TELL YOU TRULY, THEY ARE NOT MY DISCIPLE UNLESS THEY ARE HEARING FROM ME. SO DON’T TELL THEM TO READ THE BOOK, THEM TO TAKE THE CLASS!”

Obviously a good student studies the book the Teacher puts in front of them, and that to get approval and good grades from the Teacher. Yet if you are leaning on your own understanding instead of listening to the Teacher then you are not even in the class. You are not His pupil, not His student, and not His disciple!!!

Note in the OP I mention that we all have a theology, an understanding of God based on our studies and experiences. Some people's study resulted in not believe Jesus Christ is always with them to be heard from, where as other people's studies and experiences resulted in believing in Jesus Christ who is always around, even standing there knocking at the door so that we can simply open up to Him and listen.

Therefore, why did "ChristisGod" even write the question, "What does study thyself mean below ?"??

The OP did not tell anyone to not study their Bible! But it used the Bible to point out that we are not to lean on our own understanding, but listen to the Lord for His understanding!

Are you still shut up under sin by the Scriptures? Has Jesus Christ not yet been revealed to you so that you don't know about Him walking and talking with you?

I have not read anything written by you to suggest you do hear from Him by faith!! Indeed, when I read on this forum, it is rare thing to find anyone testifying to actually believing in Jesus Christ. They might say, Christ is God, but they don't really seem to know Him as their Lord, their Teacher, their Wonderful Counselor. They have no testimony about hearing from Him, and if you do tell them about hearing from Him, they often scoff at the very idea. They are not like those walking and talking with Jesus Christ about the Scriptures! They tend to be like those Pharisees and other Jews who Jesus said:

Jn 5:46, 47 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

So you read a verse like:

Acts 17:11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

And you fail to realize the Paul was telling them to seek Jesus Christ and listen to what He says via His Holy Spirit!!

Gal 3: 1-3 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

So Paul told them about Jesus Christ and about hearing Him with faith via the Holy Spirit. They compared that to the Scriptures and saw that was correct. So they then sought the Lord Jesus Christ by faith, like Paul said and the Scriptures explain, and since it is written the all those who seek find, they would have found Him. Yet you read and study the Scriptures thinking in them you have eternal life as opposed to listening to Him - and that because you didn't believe in what your read and studied!! Just like Jesus explain and is written in the Scriptuers!!

 

[Karl Peters]

So your theology is that you can claim to be hearing from the right spirit. Isn't that circular reasoning? It is such because you formulated a theology that puts you in good stead with God? Or are you merely indoctrinated?

No, it is not circular reasoning unless you thinking talking to the Lord and Him then responding back to you is circular reasoning.

Here is the problem: you don't believe in Jesus Christ, so you don't claim to be hearing from Him!!! Instead, you scoff at the idea that He is there to be heard from!!

Is 30:1 “Woe to the rebellious children,” declares the LORD,
“Who execute a plan, but not Mine,
And make an alliance, but not of My Spirit,
In order to add sin to sin;

Is 30:9 For this is a rebellious people, false sons,
Sons who refuse to listen
To the instruction of the LORD;

Now to me people who scoff at the idea of hearing from the Lord are extremely foolish. But then again there was a time I didn't believe in Jesus Christ either. I spent the first 40 years of my life not hearing from and knowing Him. Of course I didn't post on Christian forms then either. So I didn't scoff at the idea, I just didn't consider the idea.

That changed when I did start hearing from Him. Of course you scoff at and don't believe my testimony, but that is because faith comes from hearing Him, and you don't hear Him or you would understand. Yet I you did hear from Him at some point and then rejected Him, didn't you?

In the parable of the Sower we find that seeds (which are words from the Sower) fall on different types of ground. So there are different things that can happen when a person hears a word from God spoken to them. Jesus spoke to the Pharisees but they refuse to believe what He said to them. They reject Him, the King of the Jews, because of their religious pride. That was not me before I got to know the Lord. I was just too busy to consider Him. I didn't go to church. I didn't read by Bible. So I certainly didn't post on Christian forums.

Still, we find others who do post on this forum who scoff at the idea of hearing His voice. And that when it is written that His sheep hear His voice, and many other things about hearing Him.

Prov 15:12 A scoffer does not love one who reproves him,
He will not go to the wise.

The above verse is a serious problem to the scoffer because it is also written:

Rev 3:19 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

So does not love Jesus Christ who reproves those He loves. They will not go to God (The Father, Son, and Spirit) And that winds up in real circular thinking. You think you are right, so you don't seek the Lord who is right, and you are left with only your own thinking.

BTW - He had me go to the store with Him, where He had me get my wife something. It turned out, when I came back home that she had been out of it for a while. She wanted it but had not told me so. So by listening to the Lord and obeying Him He was able to again show Himself to be true and righteous to both me and my wife, but the scoffer can see it even it is explained in great detail.

And also note: He did have me go bowling once with Him. That was weird, because I did bowl when I was a kid and young adult but had long since given it up. So when one day He said, "Karl, let's go bowling" it was interesting. The unbeliever just can understand that many ways He can give you life and that more abundantly. They don't understand that He speaks to you everyday called Today, and that even as a friend of yours. A friend that likes spending time with you, and who even might go bowling with you, or take you to the store for something your wife needs, but you don't know about it. The scoffer can only think that we "claim" to hear from Him, but we understand we do hear from Him and everyday, because He never leaves us!! They can read it but they can't believe it!!!

 

[ChristisGod]

What does study thyself mean below ?

It means study - or as the first words the Lord personally told me - It means "READ YOUR BIBLE". Those were the first words the Lord told me personally. But if you indeed did study the Bible and believe what you studied do you not know that it is the Spirit, not the Bible, which gives you life?? So the foremost commandment in the Bible is "Hear, O Israel"???

Therefore the problem is that you don't believe what you studied, so you didn't seek the Lord Jesus Christ and thus do not find Him!!

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

You read, you study, but you don't believe!!! Show you are not studying to show your Lord that you listened to Him telling you personally to read the Bible, but out of pride you study and out of pride you lean on your own understanding instead of seeking Jesus Christ

Jn 5:39,40 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

Therefore you lean on your own understanding, even you own understanding of the Scriptures but are unwilling to come to Jesus Christ your Teacher for understanding!!

The Lord once told me:

WHAT TEACHER DOESN’T PUT A BOOK IN FRONT OF HIS STUDENTS TODAY; YET NOT JUST A BOOK BUT OVERHEAD TRANSPARENCIES, VISUALS, AND OTHER MATERIAL? FOR I TELL YOU TRULY, IF THEY ARE NOT LISTENING TO ME THEY ARE NOT MY PUPIL, THEY ARE NOT MY STUDENT; I TELL YOU TRULY, THEY ARE NOT MY DISCIPLE UNLESS THEY ARE HEARING FROM ME. SO DON’T TELL THEM TO READ THE BOOK, THEM TO TAKE THE CLASS!”

Obviously a good student studies the book the Teacher puts in front of them, and that to get approval and good grades from the Teacher. Yet if you are leaning on your own understanding instead of listening to the Teacher then you are not even in the class. You are not His pupil, not His student, and not His disciple!!!

Note in the OP I mention that we all have a theology, an understanding of God based on our studies and experiences. Some people's study resulted in not believe Jesus Christ is always with them to be heard from, where as other people's studies and experiences resulted in believing in Jesus Christ who is always around, even standing there knocking at the door so that we can simply open up to Him and listen.

Therefore, why did "ChristisGod" even write the question, "What does study thyself mean below ?"??

The OP did not tell anyone to not study their Bible! But it used the Bible to point out that we are not to lean on our own understanding, but listen to the Lord for His understanding!

Are you still shut up under sin by the Scriptures? Has Jesus Christ not yet been revealed to you so that you don't know about Him walking and talking with you?

I have not read anything written by you to suggest you do hear from Him by faith!! Indeed, when I read on this forum, it is rare thing to find anyone testifying to actually believing in Jesus Christ. They might say, Christ is God, but they don't really seem to know Him as their Lord, their Teacher, their Wonderful Counselor. They have no testimony about hearing from Him, and if you do tell them about hearing from Him, they often scoff at the very idea. They are not like those walking and talking with Jesus Christ about the Scriptures! They tend to be like those Pharisees and other Jews who Jesus said:

Jn 5:46, 47 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

So you read a verse like:



And you fail to realize the Paul was telling them to seek Jesus Christ and listen to what He says via His Holy Spirit!!

Gal 3: 1-3 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

So Paul told them about Jesus Christ and about hearing Him with faith via the Holy Spirit. They compared that to the Scriptures and saw that was correct. So they then sought the Lord Jesus Christ by faith, like Paul said and the Scriptures explain, and since it is written the all those who seek find, they would have found Him. Yet you read and study the Scriptures thinking in them you have eternal life as opposed to listening to Him - and that because you didn't believe in what your read and studied!! Just like Jesus explain and is written in the Scriptuers!!

The way you judge others in self righteousness it sounds much more like the pharisees than Jesus you have leaned from. Just an observation since you see yourself above everyone else and look down on them. Its not humility but pride/ego. If you actually walked and learned form Christ there would be humility of mind and considering others as more important than yourself. See Philippians 2 for that evidence.

There would also be evidence of loving others not condemning them as per 1 Corinthians 13 and Jesus teaching in Matthew 5:43-45 and Luke 6:32-36.

The way of Christ and His teaching is completely absent from you post.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Karl Peters]

The way you judge others in self righteousness it sounds much more like the pharisees than Jesus you have leaned from. Just an observation since you see yourself above everyone else and look down on them. Its not humility but pride/ego. If you actually walked and learned form Christ there would be humility of mind and considering others as more important than yourself. See Philippians 2 for that evidence.

There would also be evidence of loving others not condemning them as per 1 Corinthians 13 and Jesus teaching in Matthew 5:43-45 and Luke 6:32-36.

The way of Christ and His teaching is completely absent from you post.

hope this helps !!!

You still don't understand. It is written that as you judge so shall you be judged, and that the word of the Lord is found in your mouth and heart

So when you write:

"claim to be hearing from the right spirit"

You have confessed your unbelief that the right spirit can be heard from. So it was not my judgement but your statement that judged you.

If a person, any person, does not believe (claim) they can be hearing from the right spirit (The Holy Spirit) then they are not a believer in Jesus Christ who uses His Holy Spirit to bring us His words. Thus your very scoffing (judging that the God is not to be heard from) shows everyone who exactly you are - an unbeliever.

Indeed, if you actually heard from the living Word of God you would understanding that everyone hears from Him, but most don't believe in Him. Of course the Spirit of God is not the only spirit, but God rules over all things so His Spirit is found throughout the world. Therefore anyone claiming to hear from Him would be right. They might and do still need to discern between good and evil, right and wrong, the Spirit of God and the dark forces of this world, yet He is there speaking to everyone who is anyone. It is just that the unbelieve doesn't believe that claim - and you confessed to that unbelief and lack of understanding. You did it by scoffing at the idea, and so you showed us, by your judgement, who you are. And again, as you judge so shall you be judged.

If you had just believed what you read in the Bible. Jesus explained that He did not judge, but as He hears He judges. So it was not me who judged you, but the judgement that upset you is from your own mouth - your judgement. And you thought it was my judgement?

If you start actually seeking Him, you will hear and get some understanding. The understanding you will get is that He is Understanding, so you will seek Him and what He says. You will then find the word of God that we preach coming out of you. You will find the scoffing and unbelief coming from you and your judgements. You will then understand what I am saying that we do not lean on our own understanding, but we seek out Jesus Christ, the Word of God, who is found in our own mouth and then heart. We thus to hear from the right spirit, but not everyone believes. With their ears they barely hear and with their eyes they do not see, so they don't turn back to Jesus Christ and seek Him who also goes by the name Understanding.

 

[ChristisGod]

You still don't understand. It is written that as you judge so shall you be judged, and that the word of the Lord is found in your mouth and heart

So when you write:

"claim to be hearing from the right spirit"

You have confessed your unbelief that the right spirit can be heard from. So it was not my judgement but your statement that judged you.

If a person, any person, does not believe (claim) they can be hearing from the right spirit (The Holy Spirit) then they are not a believer in Jesus Christ who uses His Holy Spirit to bring us His words. Thus your very scoffing (judging that the God is not to be heard from) shows everyone who exactly you are - an unbeliever.

Indeed, if you actually heard from the living Word of God you would understanding that everyone hears from Him, but most don't believe in Him. Of course the Spirit of God is not the only spirit, but God rules over all things so His Spirit is found throughout the world. Therefore anyone claiming to hear from Him would be right. They might and do still need to discern between good and evil, right and wrong, the Spirit of God and the dark forces of this world, yet He is there speaking to everyone who is anyone. It is just that the unbelieve doesn't believe that claim - and you confessed to that unbelief and lack of understanding. You did it by scoffing at the idea, and so you showed us, by your judgement, who you are. And again, as you judge so shall you be judged.

If you had just believed what you read in the Bible. Jesus explained that He did not judge, but as He hears He judges. So it was not me who judged you, but the judgement that upset you is from your own mouth - your judgement. And you thought it was my judgement?

If you start actually seeking Him, you will hear and get some understanding. The understanding you will get is that He is Understanding, so you will seek Him and what He says. You will then find the word of God that we preach coming out of you. You will find the scoffing and unbelief coming from you and your judgements. You will then understand what I am saying that we do not lean on our own understanding, but we seek out Jesus Christ, the Word of God, who is found in our own mouth and then heart. We thus to hear from the right spirit, but not everyone believes. With their ears they barely hear and with their eyes they do not see, so they don't turn back to Jesus Christ and seek Him who also goes by the name Understanding.

Tell us how to tell the difference between the spirit of God and the spirit of antichrist as per 1 John 4. Lets hear it and see who has the "discernment" from Gods spirit.

 

[Karl Peters]

Tell us how to tell the difference between the spirit of God and the spirit of antichrist as per 1 John 4. Lets hear it and see who has the "discernment" from Gods spirit.

1 John 4 verse 1-3 requires that you are able to hear from Him And what you find is that the Holy Spirit will always tell you that Jesus Christ came in the flesh but not only that, right. The Holy Spirit will also tell you that He rose again and is the Lord! (1 Cor 12 We know that because it is also written that everyone speaking by the Holy Spirit will tell you Jesus Christ is Lord.

He is Lord because His sheep hear His voice, and indeed if you hear His voice you will also understand that He is always there speaking, as Lord, to everyone (Rev 3:20). Yet not everyone chooses to believe in Him - or claim that He is there to be heard from. So they don't practice using their spiritual senses (Heb 5) and still have to have the elementary principles of the oracle of God explained to them.

Heb 5: 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

The problem with what you wrote is that it fail to recognized that Jesus Christ came in the flesh, but that because you still don't fully realize what the means. It means you can find Him and His words still coming out your flesh (mouth) Today because He rose again and sends His Holy Spirit. And that is why you wrote: ""claim to be hearing from the right spirit", as if it was a bad thing. It is exactly what we want people claiming!!

You might want to look at the Bible story about the servant of the prophet who was looking at the army around them but could not see the army of God around all. That servant needed to have His eyes opened to see that there are more with us than against us. Then ask the Lord to give you a deeper understanding. There is a difference between fearing the devil and testing the spirits. We fear God so we look to God and find Him. He opens up our ears and eyes, so that we not only pick up the dark forces but also the bigger understanding that God is over all things!!

 

[ChristisGod]

1 John 4 verse 1-3 requires that you are able to hear from Him And what you find is that the Holy Spirit will always tell you that Jesus Christ came in the flesh but not only that, right. The Holy Spirit will also tell you that He rose again and is the Lord! (1 Cor 12 We know that because it is also written that everyone speaking by the Holy Spirit will tell you Jesus Christ is Lord.

He is Lord because His sheep hear His voice, and indeed if you hear His voice you will also understand that He is always there speaking, as Lord, to everyone (Rev 3:20). Yet not everyone chooses to believe in Him - or claim that He is there to be heard from. So they don't practice using their spiritual senses (Heb 5) and still have to have the elementary principles of the oracle of God explained to them.

Heb 5: 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

The problem with what you wrote is that it fail to recognized that Jesus Christ came in the flesh, but that because you still don't fully realize what the means. It means you can find Him and His words still coming out your flesh (mouth) Today because He rose again and sends His Holy Spirit. And that is why you wrote: ""claim to be hearing from the right spirit", as if it was a bad thing. It is exactly what we want people claiming!!

You might want to look at the Bible story about the servant of the prophet who was looking at the army around them but could not see the army of God around all. That servant needed to have His eyes opened to see that there are more with us than against us. Then ask the Lord to give you a deeper understanding. There is a difference between fearing the devil and testing the spirits. We fear God so we look to God and find Him. He opens up our ears and eyes, so that we not only pick up the dark forces but also the bigger understanding that God is over all things!!

Thanks you post proves you know nothing about 1st century gnosticism which the Apostle John was refuting in his epistle. Nice try though in the flesh with your answer.

 

[Karl Peters]

Thanks you post proves you know nothing about 1st century gnosticism which the Apostle John was refuting in his epistle. Nice try though in the flesh with your answer.

There is your "Theology" and NOT your relationship with the Lord our God Jesus Christ!!

This is exactly what this thread is about. We lean on our own understanding of God that we got from our studies, which is our "Theology" or understanding of God. We see it in "you know nothing about 1st century gnosticsm"! That is a clear reference to his study and the thinking of people in the past and so He is not about seeking Jesus Christ and listening to Him, but he is about studying about Christ and what others thought. Therefore his faith in not based on a belief that the Lord is always with Him, but on the ideas that can be studied in a book.

And it is really ironic, because he was asking about a test in the Bible that requires you to actually be able to hear from the spirit, Holy Spirit or evil spirit, who might be speaking to you. See the prior question he asked and the verse to be applied:

Tell us how to tell the difference between the spirit of God and the spirit of antichrist as per 1 John 4. Lets hear it and see who has the "discernment" from Gods spirit.

The test to tell the difference in the verse/verses from 1:Jn 4:1-3 is:

1 Jn 4:1-3 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

Now look close at the verse - first it is a test for spirits and not people! And the test if for determining whether you are hearing (with your spiritual ears) a spirit of false prophecy or the Holy Spirit of God. And to use this test you have to be able to actually hear the confession that spirit has concerning Jesus Christ! Did Jesus Christ come in the flesh or not, is what we are asking that spirit and expecting the spirit we are hearing from to make a confession which we can hear with our spiritual ears!!

Of course if you don't have ears to hear or if you are dull of hearing, you then can not use this test!! Indeed, if you don't have the ability to use your spiritual ears you are not even going to understand that the test is for spirits, because you know nothing about hearing spirits - either the Holy Spirit or the dark forces of this world.

And the ironic thing is that even in the question and conclusion 'ChristisGod' original wrote showed that he can't hear with his spiritual ears. We can tell that because he wrote " Lets hear it and see who has the "discernment" from Gods spirit." That is to say that he was trying to test me, a person, instead of a spirit that he is personally hearing from.

Of course I knew that instantly and more, because I do actually use that test at times. Many times in fact. So let's actually look at the answer I gave for Him trying to test me!

1 John 4 verse 1-3 requires that you are able to hear from Him And what you find is that the Holy Spirit will always tell you that Jesus Christ came in the flesh but not only that, right. The Holy Spirit will also tell you that He rose again and is the Lord! (1 Cor 12 We know that because it is also written that everyone speaking by the Holy Spirit will tell you Jesus Christ is Lord.

In the answer to him, I point out the test, which is "how to tell the difference between the spirit of God and the spirit of antichrist" which is what he asked. And I also pointed out that the Holy Spirit, and so me also, "will always tell you that Jesus Christ came in the flesh". There is the confession, which he did not actually ask for specifically but did fulfill the "Lets hear it" part of his question, and the test if applied to me. I too am a spirit, even if not the kind of spirit John was referring to in 1 Jn 4: 1-3. I mean, I am clearly not the Holy Spirit, so that test didn't apply to testing me. But I do pass that test anyway, even if someone doesn't know what the test is for. Of course, since 'ChristisGod' did understand the use of the test, even how it is written, he didn't understand even what to look for, so he went back to leaning on his "Theology" studies about God instead of actually seeking what our Lord Jesus Christ had to personally say to Him!

So for His own sake, I covered the "more" that is needed on this subject. First is that there is a test in the Scriptures that is better applied to people; though it works on spirits also. And that test is found in 1 Cor 12:3

1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

It is interesting to really look at this and get understanding from the Lord our God, Jesus Christ, who is also our Teacher and Wonderful Counselor. This is a lot like the test in 1 Jn 4:1-3 in that the "can say" in the verse is really more a confession of Jesus Christ, like "every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ" in 1 Jn. We His sheep who do hear His voice are not just "saying" like a parrot, that Jesus Christ is our Lord, we are confessing it!!!

And confessing that Jesus Christ is our Lord is not the same thing as saying Jesus Christ is God. He is God, even the Word of God who is God and who took on flesh (see Jn 1:1) but He is our Lord; meaning we really do get instructions from Him!!! We hear Him telling us things to do!! This is what I am talking about in the OP. That is to say we don't lean on our understanding but we hear from our Lord, and that also applies to our Theology ( our understanding of Him/God)

'ChristisGod', didn't do that. Instead he looked back to some history that he had read or heard from other people about and refference that instead of our Lord Jesus Christ!!

He was hoping to test me, but he tested himself and failed to seek Jesus Christ, as can be seen by what comes our of him!!

Which brings me to preaching the Word, which is what the Lord asks me to do.

Rom 10: 6-9 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), or ‘WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).”
But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

If we say in our hearts that Jesus Christ is either still dead or in a far off place called heaven, we are left with trying to lean on our studies of Him (our Theology), and we fail to realize the He is always with us to be heard from! We fail to realize that He is our Lord, as in the person who gives us instructions personally!

So the more part is that we don't only say that Jesus Christ came in the flesh, but we also declare Him to be the One who is the Word of God!! We call Him that because He has the words of God, and He speaks to us via His Holy Spirit, so we pick up what He says to us via our spirit. Because it comes to our spirit we find His words in our heart and if not paying attention to our heart, then in our mouth because what is in the heart tends to come out the mouth. Of course if we are writing it is not our the mouth but perhaps in the words we post.

Therefore those who hear from Him post about hearing from Him as their Lord, and those who don't hear from Him don't post about hearing from Him. They might say that He is God, because they learned that in their studies, but they don't confess that they get instructions from Him, because they have been saying in their heart that He is either dead or in a far off place called heaven!! So they fail the tests provided for in the Scriptures!

 

[ChristisGod]

There is your "Theology" and NOT your relationship with the Lord our God Jesus Christ!!

This is exactly what this thread is about. We lean on our own understanding of God that we got from our studies, which is our "Theology" or understanding of God. We see it in "you know nothing about 1st century gnosticsm"! That is a clear reference to his study and the thinking of people in the past and so He is not about seeking Jesus Christ and listening to Him, but he is about studying about Christ and what others thought. Therefore his faith in not based on a belief that the Lord is always with Him, but on the ideas that can be studied in a book.

And it is really ironic, because he was asking about a test in the Bible that requires you to actually be able to hear from the spirit, Holy Spirit or evil spirit, who might be speaking to you. See the prior question he asked and the verse to be applied:



The test to tell the difference in the verse/verses from 1:Jn 4:1-3 is:

1 Jn 4:1-3 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

Now look close at the verse - first it is a test for spirits and not people! And the test if for determining whether you are hearing (with your spiritual ears) a spirit of false prophecy or the Holy Spirit of God. And to use this test you have to be able to actually hear the confession that spirit has concerning Jesus Christ! Did Jesus Christ come in the flesh or not, is what we are asking that spirit and expecting the spirit we are hearing from to make a confession which we can hear with our spiritual ears!!

Of course if you don't have ears to hear or if you are dull of hearing, you then can not use this test!! Indeed, if you don't have the ability to use your spiritual ears you are not even going to understand that the test is for spirits, because you know nothing about hearing spirits - either the Holy Spirit or the dark forces of this world.

And the ironic thing is that even in the question and conclusion 'ChristisGod' original wrote showed that he can't hear with his spiritual ears. We can tell that because he wrote " Lets hear it and see who has the "discernment" from Gods spirit." That is to say that he was trying to test me, a person, instead of a spirit that he is personally hearing from.

Of course I knew that instantly and more, because I do actually use that test at times. Many times in fact. So let's actually look at the answer I gave for Him trying to test me!



In the answer to him, I point out the test, which is "how to tell the difference between the spirit of God and the spirit of antichrist" which is what he asked. And I also pointed out that the Holy Spirit, and so me also, "will always tell you that Jesus Christ came in the flesh". There is the confession, which he did not actually ask for specifically but did fulfill the "Lets hear it" part of his question, and the test if applied to me. I too am a spirit, even if not the kind of spirit John was referring to in 1 Jn 4: 1-3. I mean, I am clearly not the Holy Spirit, so that test didn't apply to testing me. But I do pass that test anyway, even if someone doesn't know what the test is for. Of course, since 'ChristisGod' did understand the use of the test, even how it is written, he didn't understand even what to look for, so he went back to leaning on his "Theology" studies about God instead of actually seeking what our Lord Jesus Christ had to personally say to Him!

So for His own sake, I covered the "more" that is needed on this subject. First is that there is a test in the Scriptures that is better applied to people; though it works on spirits also. And that test is found in 1 Cor 12:3

1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

It is interesting to really look at this and get understanding from the Lord our God, Jesus Christ, who is also our Teacher and Wonderful Counselor. This is a lot like the test in 1 Jn 4:1-3 in that the "can say" in the verse is really more a confession of Jesus Christ, like "every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ" in 1 Jn. We His sheep who do hear His voice are not just "saying" like a parrot, that Jesus Christ is our Lord, we are confessing it!!!

And confessing that Jesus Christ is our Lord is not the same thing as saying Jesus Christ is God. He is God, even the Word of God who is God and who took on flesh (see Jn 1:1) but He is our Lord; meaning we really do get instructions from Him!!! We hear Him telling us things to do!! This is what I am talking about in the OP. That is to say we don't lean on our understanding but we hear from our Lord, and that also applies to our Theology ( our understanding of Him/God)

'ChristisGod', didn't do that. Instead he looked back to some history that he had read or heard from other people about and refference that instead of our Lord Jesus Christ!!

He was hoping to test me, but he tested himself and failed to seek Jesus Christ, as can be seen by what comes our of him!!

Which brings me to preaching the Word, which is what the Lord asks me to do.

Rom 10: 6-9 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), or ‘WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).”
But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

If we say in our hearts that Jesus Christ is either still dead or in a far off place called heaven, we are left with trying to lean on our studies of Him (our Theology), and we fail to realize the He is always with us to be heard from! We fail to realize that He is our Lord, as in the person who gives us instructions personally!

So the more part is that we don't only say that Jesus Christ came in the flesh, but we also declare Him to be the One who is the Word of God!! We call Him that because He has the words of God, and He speaks to us via His Holy Spirit, so we pick up what He says to us via our spirit. Because it comes to our spirit we find His words in our heart and if not paying attention to our heart, then in our mouth because what is in the heart tends to come out the mouth. Of course if we are writing it is not our the mouth but perhaps in the words we post.

Therefore those who hear from Him post about hearing from Him as their Lord, and those who don't hear from Him don't post about hearing from Him. They might say that He is God, because they learned that in their studies, but they don't confess that they get instructions from Him, because they have been saying in their heart that He is either dead or in a far off place called heaven!! So they fail the tests provided for in the Scriptures!

You still didn't answer the question.

What does Christ has come in the flesh mean ?

I can see you have never studied the topic and are just winging it.

 

[Karl Peters]

The Lord has me come to this Christian forum to tell people to listen to Him.

What I find are people claiming to me Christians but who don't hear from Him, but I knew that before coming hear because He told me it would be like that. A number of years ago He once asked me to open my Bible up to Ezek 3 and asked me to read there. As I read He also started talking to me. What He told me was not exactly what I read but very close to what I read. It reads:

Ezek 3:4-7 Then He said to me, “Son of man, go to the house of Israel and speak with My words to them. “For you are not being sent to a people of unintelligible speech or difficult language, but to the house of Israel, nor to many peoples of unintelligible speech or difficult language, whose words you cannot understand. But I have sent you to them who should listen to you; yet the house of Israel will not be willing to listen to you, since they are not willing to listen to Me. Surely the whole house of Israel is stubborn and obstinate.

Now He spoke to me as I read and He told me then that He was not sending me to "people of unintelligible speech or difficult language". And He told me then that they would not listen to me because they would not listen to Him. And the kicker was that the message He wanted me to tell them was to listen to Him.

That was some years ago but He keep going over and over it with me, and has me keep going over and over with the people posting here.

Now I know there are many Christians who do hear from Him, and indeed all real Christians do hear His voice and try to make their lives about hearing from Him. This not actually hearing from Him but pretending to be Christians, is the very reason for all the bad things we see today. If we who are called by His name, "Christians" are not willing to hear from Him but continually lean on our own understanding, then the people who are not Christians are not going to become Christians (those who really do hear from Him) either. And so the end of times as we know it must come. It is going to come, but why should we not do what He asks and listen to Him??

The best and most loving thing I can do for someone is to get them to listen to the Lord our God Jesus Christ!! He is love, but He reproves those He loves, just like it is written. And what He reproves you on is not listening to Him!!!!

Now I don't listen to Him like I should, and I know it. But I hear from Him every single day!! If I seek Him I find Him. If I don't seek Him them maybe the devils are going to try to quietly get into my life until I realize that I need to seek Him again, and that only takes a short time. Maybe an hour or so at most. And if I get upset, He will come back and tell me something. It might be to post, because that reminds me to listen to Him. Still it is clear to see that things are getting worse and worse, especially here in the USA. More lying, more crime, more sex even aimed at kids, more divorce, more murders, more of everything bad, because there is less listening to Him.

So in the past He sent people like Ezekiel to try and get His people to listen to Him but they would not listen to Ezekiel telling them to listen to Him because they were not willing listen to Him!!!

Yeah, that might be a general statement, but it is generally true!! Read the posts, where do you actually find those posting hear telling you about what they heard from Him? Maybe in one of the testimony posts, but that section is rarely posted in.

The Lord once told me, "Karl, people want to tell others all about Me instead of about Me!"

He always has these neat little sayings that explain sooo much with so little, unlike me. Never-the-less, we do find people hear wanting to tell others all they know about God (their Theology), instead of just telling others that He is indeed there to be heard from. This thread was about trying to correct that and just get people to listen to Him. And if you care to believe it; it was the Lord's idea. He asked me to make this thread.

 

[Karl Peters]

To some, "religion" is an honest effort to do God's will. To others, "religion" is rules set in place by self-serving church "leaders." But to me, "religion" would be a person's honest efforts to do God's will.

Actually. listening to Him doing what He tells you would be an honest effort to do God's will!!!!!!!

Didn't you actually see that in your studies, your religion, your understanding of God????

Luke 8:21 But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.”

 

[Karl Peters]

People keep leaving out the hearing the Lord part!!

They say to themselves, "I know what God wants" and then lean on their own understanding. That is called 'being religious'.

I was once told by the Holy Spirit: 'DON’T SAY YOU DID OR ARE DOING WHAT YOU THINK IS BEST, SAY YOU DID AND ARE DOING WHAT HE THINKS IS BEST. THAT WAY YOU WILL BE SEEKING HIM AT TIMES!

 

[Karl Peters]

You still didn't answer the question.

What does Christ has come in the flesh mean ?

I can see you have never studied the topic and are just winging it.

That was not your question!! Did you forget what you asked? You asked:

Tell us how to tell the difference between the spirit of God and the spirit of antichrist as per 1 John 4. Lets hear it and see who has the "discernment" from Gods spirit.

It is not even close to the same question. The one you asked was about the "discernment" and that of spirits, but you didn't understand that. And apparently you still don't understand what you asked and should be asking.

Never-the-less, the above question is an interesting topic, but it is not the topic of this thread, is it?

So, it needs to be on another thread!! Yet it would be a nice thread. There is a lot more to that question than I believe you know, and me to for that matter. It really gets more into the depths of God that you realize, and note that even Jesus Christ, the perfect image of the invisible God and God, did not and does not consider understanding the depths of something that can happen. So I suggest you put it on another thread - yet even with that talk to Jesus Christ via His Holy Spirit and see what He has to say.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Theology is the study of Gods word.
while there is bad theology out there. there is good theology out there

The Bible is Gods love letter to us. He did nto spend a few thousand years putting it together for us just to ignore it.. He gave it to us so we can get to know him.