There are those who do not believe in a Rapture(Caught up) for the Elect

[sniper762]

pompadour

pompadour
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Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:44 PM

Veteran: I'm more then a little disappointed in your insults and demeaning comments, as if you are the official self appointed expert on all things Biblical. Must be lonely up there.

I have read the book of Revelations about 30 times, I do know about the 5 months and the season of the locust ( May - Sept. ) also 5 months. in Rev 9.

Let me tell you something I know and you do not know, The 7 yrs Tribulation. you like to talk about so much will start in 1 to 5 yrs.
And no, I will not tell you how I know that, you will have to figure it out for your self.
You have a nice life now.


EVIDENTLY YOU MISREAD IT 5 TIMES "THE BOOK OF REVELATION" IS NOT PLURAL

 

[veteran]

Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:44 PM

Veteran: I'm more then a little disappointed in your insults and demeaning comments, as if you are the official self appointed expert on all things Biblical. Must be lonely up there.

I have read the book of Revelations about 30 times, I do know about the 5 months and the season of the locust ( May - Sept. ) also 5 months. in Rev 9.

Let me tell you something I know and you do not know, The 7 yrs Tribulation. you like to talk about so much will start in 1 to 5 yrs.
And no, I will not tell you how I know that, you will have to figure it out for your self.
You have a nice life now.


EVIDENTLY YOU MISREAD IT 5 TIMES "THE BOOK OF REVELATION" IS NOT PLURAL

Was there some Bible question you wanted to ask me about then?

If you'll go back and read comments MADE to me by the many false Jews on this forum, you'll discover eventually, that I did not start it. But I can dish it out as I'm given. So now YOU are on that list too brother! Probably even more so, since you obviously have not read nor followed all those discussions had here! Kind of new, aren't ya?

I'm not going to say when the "great tribulation" is going to start, I'm not that prideful in thinking I can know that yet, but only guess according to the signs given by The LORD in His Word. But with you, I can see you think of yourself to be somewhat when you are not, nor do you know if it will start within the next 1 to 5 years either, but only guessing.

 

[gishpar]

Hi: I am reading each of these posts? I believe the Elect that Jesus speaks of in Matthew 24 is all of us who believe in Him whether they be of Jewish descent or Gentile descent. Next, when the Apostle Paul speaks of the people being caught up no has mentioned that the Apostle Paul said, "at the last trump."
In Revelation there are mentioned seven trumpets. Before the last trump is sounded there is quietness in Heaven for half an hour. I believe we will go through the Tribulation but like Israel was kept during the first three plagues in Ancient Egypt, God is able to keep us even during this time. In Isaiah, He tells His people to go into their houses or chamber and shut the doors. I believe if He could keep Noah during the Flood, the Israelites during the Plagues, and all of us during our lifetimes here on earth, He can surely keep us during the Tribulation. Next the Apostle James tells us that judgment must begin at the House of God first and that if Christ had to suffer, who are we to believe we will not have to. Also if none of the Christians will have to go through the Tribulation why does the Apostle Paul say, "those that remain and are still alive?" Remember, he was not talking about all of time but only about the last days. Also Jesus says that before the Tribulation some will be arrested and killed and put in prison. He also says in Matthew 24 that after the Tribulation He will come the trump will sound which I believe to be the last trump and the elect will be gathered from the ends of the earth. When all those who believe in Him as our Messiah, Jew and Gentile, lawlessness will abound and the love of many will grow cold. Lawlessness comes before the Tribulation. So the Restrainer can not be the Holy Spirit. I believe the Restrainer could be someone who professes to believe in the Word of God and represents God but does not belong to Jesus. I believe when he is relieved of his position or pretense, then the son of perdition will come to the forefront. It is like a human father who prevents his son bent on evil being held back until he either does away with his father or his father dies and then this same son is now able to unleash his evilness on his world as never before. Again, this is my opinion. If I am wrong, I am still going to be with Jesus no matter how He determines I should meet Him either from the grave or in the air at the time He appoints for me. So Thank You Jesus for your saving Grace.

 

[buddyt]

To teach the Rapture is very Dangerous. Father tells us in Ezekiel 13 he is against those who teach this. If you take time to read the Chapter you'll see is about False Teachings. I have asked many who believe this Lie to explain away what God says about it here but I have yet to have anyone reply. A disarranged women back in the 1800s started this Lie and it took off. There is not one (1) verse in the Bible that says anything about a Rapture. Except that in Ezekiel 13:20-21 and God isn't happy about it.

 

[Pharmboy]

the rapture is a relatively NEW teaching in the church. It is a false teaching. People who teach it are false teachers.

 

[Helen]

I agree, I think it is safer to tell those who believe in some rapture....that they are free to keep their sad belief, but also to 'stay awake' and be prepared to not "go" anywhere!
But to be the person who assures people that they will be zapped out of here when things get hot..is like singing a lullaby to help them sleep , while the wolf is already coming in through the door.
Shame on them.

I personally do not believe in it, but if we all live in The Light, ready for the Lord's Kingdom to come on earth.....we are already prepared.
For when The Day comes...God will say - " Ready or not, here I come!"
Let's live ready and check our armour and sharpen our 'sword'...for we will be here to face it all in faith and going nowhere...
..except deeper into- " The Secret Place Of The Most High."

 

[bbyrd009]

I personally do not believe in it, but if we all live in The Light, ready for the Lord's Kingdom to come on earth.....we are already prepared.

could you rephrase this, because i must be misunderstanding, ty.

 

[Helen]

could you rephrase this, because i must be misunderstanding, ty.

Sorry, I was saying ( or thought I was saying) I don't believe in a rapture, and would never tell anyone that they will be "raptued out" of The Great Tribulation....but if it is true, and I am wrong about it, I'll be happy to go!!
If we live close to God in His Presense .....whether we believe it, or don't believe it won't matter, because our soul would be ready to meet Jesus either way, ....in some catching-away, or in death through tribulation.
Ha! I probably haven't said it any better than the first time!

 

[bbyrd009]

27He is not God of the dead but of the living.

 

[Dcopymope]

But these verses show that not only are they caught up, but it also says THEIR days shall be shortened because if they were left on the earth they would not make it for not many flesh shall survive.
Matt 24:21-24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
KJV
Mark 13:19-20
19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
KJV

Many think it is a sad thing that someone, in these days passes on, but maybe this is God's mercy for they have been spared from the Great Tribulation to come.

Here is also two accounts of Christ appearing, one is for his saintswho have remained alive to meet them in the air when they are caught up and one is for armageddon the great supper of God with his saints behind him to judge the dead(Spiritual dead that is).
Rapture/Caught up:
Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they {ELECT ONLY}see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

Here is where all men will see him, and the trumpet will sound and all the elect are gathered from HEAVEN only for Armageddon.

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

I realize that the truth that I show is hard on the ears because we have only been able to hear the smooth things, but everything I show, comes from the Bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit who teaches me.
I study with no man.

For a believer to not believe that God will gather his believers in the heavens is to dismiss the very promise of redemption itself, because the rapture is the Resurrection, the redemption spoken of in Revelation and spoken of by Paul. Immediately after this event will the seven vials of God's wrath be poured onto earth. If there is no rapture, then there is no redemption.

 

[Helen]

For a believer to not believe that God will gather his believers in the heavens is to dismiss the very promise of redemption itself, because the rapture is the Resurrection, the redemption spoken of in Revelation and spoken of by Paul. Immediately after this event will the seven vials of God's wrath be poured onto earth. If there is no rapture, then there is no redemption.

That very much hangs on what we believe rapture means. I have twice ( in many decades) been 'caught up' into Gods wonderful presence. I;m sure many other have too. My feet went nowhere...but I was also not in this realm but another spiritual realm.
I don't say that I don't believe in rapture....but I sure do not believe in the rapture doctrine as it is taught.
Paul was raptured into the third heaven...yet he truthfully said ..." in the body or out of the body I know not." He was caught up into a realm.
The rapturists teach that our bodies are caught up literally to met Jesus. That to me...is in this heaven above us...not A REALM OF THE SPIRIT.
The bible is a spiritual book, which can only be spiritually understood. That is how it is written, to our inner man.....that's why we read it by and though the Holy spirit.

But, each to their own....

 

[Dcopymope]

That very much hangs on what we believe rapture means. I have twice ( in many decades) been 'caught up' into Gods wonderful presence. I;m sure many other have too. My feet went nowhere...but I was also not in this realm but another spiritual realm.
I don't say that I don't believe in rapture....but I sure do not believe in the rapture doctrine as it is taught.
Paul was raptured into the third heaven...yet he truthfully said ..." in the body or out of the body I know not." He was caught up into a realm.
The rapturists teach that our bodies are caught up literally to met Jesus. That to me...is in this heaven above us...not A REALM OF THE SPIRIT.
The bible is a spiritual book, which can only be spiritually understood. That is how it is written, to our inner man.....that's why we read it by and though the Holy spirit.

But, each to their own....

The day of the Lord is never described as a vision in any way, its a literal event that occurs in the physical, quite clearly witnessed by the entire world. This is not about visions. Jesus said we will be caught up from one end of heaven from the other. Its quite clear to me that its the sky that we'll be taken to, since that's where Jesus also appears. One thing is for certain, your feet won't be on the earth. No one beyond Moses and Elijah has ever nor will ever step foot in the third heaven, because God is going to bring his kingdom to us.

 

[Job]

There is a "catching up" that takes place just prior to the second coming of Christ. The catching up and 2nd coming are so closely tied that they happen almost simultaneously. The catching up comes first.

There is no rapture that whisks people away from the supposed coming Tribulation. Scripture is clear that towards the end, Satan will wage war against the saints. How will this be accomplished if the saints are gone?

 

[Dcopymope]

There is a "catching up" that takes place just prior to the second coming of Christ. The catching up and 2nd coming are so closely tied that they happen almost simultaneously. The catching up comes first.

There is no rapture that whisks people away from the supposed coming Tribulation. Scripture is clear that towards the end, Satan will wage war against and overcome the saints. How will this be accomplished if the saints are gone?

I pointed out before that the rapture, or "catching up" occurs in Revelation 15, just before the seven vial judgements and after the Great Tribulation. Its at that point that those days are cut short. We're not going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[Job]

We're not going anywhere anytime soon.

I don't believe so either.

 

[Helen]

Its quite clear to me that its the sky that we'll be taken to, since that's where Jesus also appears. One thing is for certain, your feet won't be on the earth. No one beyond Moses and Elijah has ever nor will ever step foot in the third heaven, because God is going to bring his kingdom to us.

Okay, if you say so...we shall see.

But to assure people that they will be just fine...and that Jesus will whisk them out of here and not have to suffer anything...to me is a crime...
I don't believe we were given spiritual armour for nothing.
The teaching has produced a lethargic, complacent church, with a soft belly.
When the whisking away does not happen, I hope you and others that teach this will 'be there' for them , they will need help when the shock and panic hit them that they are actually not going anywhere.....
God calls us to be Overcomers....and to stand firm..not fly away...
But as I said...re your quote above..." if you say so...but we will see."

 

[101G]

27He is not God of the dead but of the living.

Not so fast, Romans 14:9 "For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living".

 

[Job]

I hope you and others that teach this will 'be there' for them , they will need help when the shock and panic hit them that they are actually not going anywhere.....

I don't think they'll know. They'll still be waiting.

 

[bbyrd009]

Not so fast, Romans 14:9 "For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living".

yes. Notice one is about God and the other Christ. Hmm. God is God of the living and not the dead, and Christ died that He might rule over both the dead and the living. My guess is in the first case about God, "dead" means dead, and in the second case it means spiritually dead, but i'm strictly going on feelings there

 

[101G]

yes. Notice one is about God and the other Christ. Hmm. God is God of the living and not the dead, and Christ died that He might rule over both the dead and the living. My guess is in the first case about God, "dead" means dead, and in the second case it means spiritually dead, but i'm strictly going on feelings there

ERROR, God is "a" Spirit, right, John 4:24a (KJV). now this, Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his".

please tell us how many Spirit there are?. I hope U don't say two....... (smile).