There is NO proof text in scripture.

[ScottA]

The issue is due to words having several meanings, especially in Hebrew which has a limited vocabulary. So a search reveals many scriptures with each verse having a different meaning, hence the issues that we get.

Exactly, and that is why we should be happy to embrace Jesus' provision and Helper to put an end to the confusion and lead us into all truth, as promised.

Now, some have said that is impossible or foolish chaos allowing all manner of wild interpretations, making matters even worse. But what shall we do, follow their fears, or embrace the promise and know that with God all things are possible?

I have made my choice, as have those who speak out of fear. Which is it going to be?

 

[Wrangler]

The scriptures then, are not to serve as a proof text of what you think or what was taught, but should instead be a means of confirmation. The rule is NOT to test every word, but rather to "test every spirit."

I've held off posting in this thread. The word of God does not stand at odds with God's Spirit.

I submit that there is proof text in Scripture but it's not for every doctrinal view. I will use only two examples. The proof text that man was made on the 6th day. There is little argument over this precisely because of the proof text on the topic. This stands on contrast to OSAS or soul sleep as verses can "support" either side but proof text is found wanting.

Another proof text is that Jesus is the Son of God, found in the 1st verse of the oldest Gospel, Mk 1:1. How long he was in the ground before God resurrected him may have supporting text but not proof text, e.g., 3 full days or 3 partial days, etc.

 

[ScottA]

I've held off posting in this thread. The word of God does not stand at odds with God's Spirit.

I submit that there is proof text in Scripture but it's not for every doctrinal view. I will use only two examples. The proof text that man was made on the 6th day. There is little argument over this precisely because of the proof text on the topic. This stands on contrast to OSAS or soul sleep as verses can "support" either side but proof text is found wanting.

Another proof text is that Jesus is the Son of God, found in the 1st verse of the oldest Gospel, Mk 1:1. How long he was in the ground before God resurrected him may have supporting text but not proof text, e.g., 3 full days or 3 partial days, etc.

Indeed, the word of God does not stand at odds with the Spirit, it is the flesh that does, and men who lean that way.

And, yes, there are proof texts. The problem is that proof texts have become the very chaos that those who place the scriptures over the Spirit fear.

 

[Cooper]

Exactly, and that is why we should be happy to embrace Jesus' provision and Helper to put an end to the confusion and lead us into all truth, as promised.

Now, some have said that is impossible or foolish chaos allowing all manner of wild interpretations, making matters even worse. But what shall we do, follow their fears, or embrace the promise and know that with God all things are possible?

I have made my choice, as have those who speak out of fear. Which is it going to be?

The foolish choice is to ignore the promptings of the Holy Spirit. If I pause and silently wait, a thought comes into my mind, different from what I was going to say originally. That would have come from me and not from God. I'm thinking maybe the Holy Spirit is not present in those who deny Jesus, and so what we get is simply people's opinions?
.

 

[Cooper]

Another proof text is that Jesus is the Son of God, found in the 1st verse of the oldest Gospel, Mk 1:1. How long he was in the ground before God resurrected him may have supporting text but not proof text, e.g., 3 full days or 3 partial days, etc.

Mar_10:34 And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.

Sunday is the third day.
.

 

[prism]

Name calling. Just another example of un-Christian love. More bad fruit.

So is twisting what other people said by enlarging their text and highlighting it in bolden red as well as twisting it's intended target of 'general' audience to a self personal attack.
Back home we call that narcissistic.

 

[ScottA]

So is twisting what other people said by enlarging their text and highlighting it in bolden red as well as twisting it's intended target of 'general' audience to a self personal attack.
Back home we call that narcissistic.

Ooooh, sorry...would you prefer I enlarge the accusation of using the Holy Spirit instead? Proud of that one huh?

That's the problem. Text can and is twisted. God did that.

And the only means we have of untwisting it, God also did. He gave us the Holy Spirit, and told us the words must be discerned spiritually.

Then the scriptures don't have that problem. Only then are they not twisted.

Paul told Timothy, a prospective pastor, to study to show himself approved.
Ministry work is not for lazy people who use the Holy Spirit as an excuse not to study.

...But that is not according to the scriptures, it's backwards-- I thought you would have studied that. Anyway, one cannot "use" the Holy Spirit, that is not how it works:

"But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you." Matthew 10:19-20

"Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven." Matthew 16:17​

 

[Davy]

Sorry, but any direction to steer away from God's Holy Writ is not a teaching by Lord Jesus, nor by any of His Apostles. That idea is particularly against what Apostle Paul said below...

2 Tim 2:15
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
KJV


Good Bible study really is not that difficult. And The Holy Spirit is required in order to understand it, since God gave it to holy men by The Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:21).

God has provided us with some good Bible scholars of the past to help us. This is why I recommend the FREE BibleSoft application OneTouch Light, at biblesoft.com, which has various Bible study tools. The best tools still are The King James Version (not the new, which is not even from the same Greek New Testament texts the 1611 KJV uses), and a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. That's a software that probably a majority of pastors use.

 

[ScottA]

Just a reminder...the intent of this thread is not to make the point that the study of God's word is not good, because it is. But on the contrary, the intent is to avoid participating in the obvious problems, which are not between a person and God in his word, but between those who wield it as their own sword against members of the family of God. Woe.

 

[amadeus]

Definition of lazy
(Entry 1 of 2)

1a: disinclined to activity or exertion : not energetic or vigorous The lazy child tried to avoid household chores.
b: encouraging inactivity or indolence a lazy summer day
2: moving slowly : SLUGGISHa lazy river
3: DROOPY, LAX a rabbit with lazy ears
4: placed on its side lazy E livestock brand
5: not rigorous or strict lazy scholarship

Is it really name calling? Or is it just the point of an action that a person is partaking in?

If we direct it at a particular person because we disagree or oppose their belief and their way they describe their connection with God, I, would see it as name calling. Leave that in the hands of the moderators!

Having said that probably every man has a lazy tendency. That many men work any way is usually if not always a good thing, I guess dependent on what they work at.

I am not against Bible study as I have been a student of the scriptures for years. But when study is raised up above seeking first things first as per what it covered by what Solomon wrote about it here:

"And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh." Ecc 12:12

Focusing first on the tools of the carnal brain of man and his logic, to me makes it a weariness of the flesh. I speak not only of what is written, but from my personal experience as a Bible student.

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

 

[MatthewG]

If we direct it at a particular person because we disagree or oppose their belief and their way they describe their connection with God, I, would see it as name calling. Leave that in the hands of the moderators!

Having said that probably every man has a lazy tendency. That many men work any way is usually if not always a good thing, I guess dependent on what they work at.

I am not against Bible study as I have been a student of the scriptures for years. But when study is raised up above seeking first things first as per what it covered by what Solomon wrote about it here:

"And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh." Ecc 12:12

Focusing first on the tools of the carnal brain of man and his logic, to me makes it a weariness of the flesh. I speak not only of what is written, but from my personal experience as a Bible student.

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

Thank you for your comment. I would suggest that calling someone lazy would indeed be calling someone a name and to me personally it would offensive to call someone such.

Though what about Jesus when he talks about the Lazy servant,

His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed?

There is no getting around coming across Jesus word. It’s good to study and grow in my opinion. You don’t have to if you choose not to, and I believe that anyone at any age that can is able to still read their life can change by seeking out God.

I know I don’t find myself to be over one or better than anyone this is just what scripture exclaims. Even Jesus himself.


“For thus says the Lord to the house of Israel: “Seek Me and live;”
‭‭Amos‬ ‭5:4‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


“Seek the Lord, all you meek of the earth, Who have upheld His justice. Seek righteousness, seek humility. It may be that you will be hidden In the day of the Lord’s anger.”
‭‭Zephaniah‬ ‭2:3‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


“Sow for yourselves righteousness; Reap in mercy; Break up your fallow ground, For it is time to seek the Lord, Till He comes and rains righteousness on you.” (Jesus is our righteousness)
‭‭Hosea‬ ‭10:12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


““So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.”
‭‭Luke ‬ ‭11:9-10‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“Glory in His holy name; Let the hearts of those rejoice who seek the Lord! Seek the Lord and His strength; Seek His face evermore! Remember His marvelous works which He has done, His wonders, and the judgments of His mouth,”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭105:3-5‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[MatthewG]

In note of the flesh, @amadeus i have the same thing in me too. My flesh naturally hates studying the Bible. Our flesh is naturally hostile to the word of God.


“Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:7-8‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Ie: anything dealing with faith or the spirit naturally our flesh hates it, but because of faith the spirit is willingly.

Jesus said:

Keep watch and pray, so that you will not give in to temptation. For the spirit is willing, but the body is weak!”

“Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak

 

[amadeus]

Thank you for your comment. I would suggest that calling someone lazy would indeed be calling someone a name and to me personally it would offensive to call someone such.

Though what about Jesus when he talks about the Lazy servant,

His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed?
...‬‬

Do we live for God by faith or by knowledge? "...The just shall live by faith." Rom 1:17

Jesus, on the other hand, being the Word of God, knew things with regard to God and His kingdom, did he not, rather than only believe them by faith?

When and if we ever know as Jesus knew and we have overcome all the world as Jesus did and we are like him as per I John 3:2, then when and if we say to a person, "You wicked and lazy servant" it will be because we know, not merely believe, that that is what the person is!

 

[MatthewG]

That is why the word of God is powerful @amadeus. I believe it comes down to having faith and love. Yes of course, but going to church and listen to a sermon that never invokes growth what good is that my friend?

Yes we are established in the faith. Jesus Christ died, was buried and resurrected, and we live by faith that because of this we have access to God.

What one does with this access to them is up to them. They can continue to seek out God and grow in their faith becoming a babe in Christ into a son or daughter of God.

IT WILL ALWAYS BE ABOUT FAITH AND LOVE.

However all participants are given the chance to grow in their knowledge.

“but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.”
‭‭II Peter‬ ‭3:18‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Which in turn will grow your spirit and increase your hope.

Do you not think so?

 

[MatthewG]

Consider ;


“For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons (or daughters) of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:13-14‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[amadeus]

Consider ;


“For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons (or daughters) of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:13-14‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

And therefore...

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

 

[MatthewG]

Love you brother @amadeus thank you for your participation, and all people here. Desire to encourage any and all to consider what just took place here. Seek for God search out for him, call out and trust have faith and hope, and you will live (spiritually).

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That is not the point or my original post. But rather that it is in fact against God and his word to put the literary meaning or the words alone, before their spiritual meaning.

You missed the point.

It is the Spirit that makes alive…the words I give you they are spirit and life.

 

[prism]

Ooooh, sorry...would you prefer I enlarge the accusation of using the Holy Spirit instead? Proud of that one huh?

Sorry, you are making little to no sense.

 

[ScottA]

Definition of lazy
(Entry 1 of 2)

1a: disinclined to activity or exertion : not energetic or vigorous The lazy child tried to avoid household chores.
b: encouraging inactivity or indolence a lazy summer day
2: moving slowly : SLUGGISHa lazy river
3: DROOPY, LAX a rabbit with lazy ears
4: placed on its side lazy E livestock brand
5: not rigorous or strict lazy scholarship

Is it really name calling? Or is it just the point of an action that a person is partaking in?

Just seeing this..

Yes, in the context of post #143, it is name calling.

It (He) said that the reason for placing the Holy Spirit first over [not the written word] but over "study", is what "lazy people" do. That's what he said--and it is a false accusation. It is not lazy, but a choice--the right choice for our times. Help from the Holy Spirit unto all truth, is the order of the day--by Christ.

Are you sure you want to join such an anti-Christ effort against what He himself has given as a directive?