They BELIEVE for a while, and in time of testing FALL AWAY

[TonyChanYT]

ESV, Luke 8:

13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.

Strong's Greek: 868. ἀφίστημι (aphistémi) — 14 Occurrences

BDAG:
① to cause someone to move from a reference point
② to distance oneself from some pers. or thing

According to Jesus, could a believer fall away?

Yes, shallowed believers could easily fall away.

 

[marks]

Shallowed believers could easily fall away.

The real question is whether someone is born again, a true conversion. Demons believe, and are not saved. These "received the word immediately with joy", that is, they had an emotional response, but did not respond with repentance. Rather they continued on as they were.

Much love!

 

[TonyChanYT]

A Generic falling away is unanswerable

A believer is someone who believes. Could a believer fall away?

Please focus on the above definition and the verse below. This is the third and last time I have asked.

Luke 8:

13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

A seed planted in fertile soil takes root, grows to maturity and produces fruit. All other plants die, because the seeds were either scattered on rocky or shallow soil and wasn't watered, it wasn't cared for. The person did not emerge themselves in the WORD. They really did not believe, they weren't born again.
People go to church for years, show up, pretend, yet really don't believe nor have a relationship with Christ. When times get tough, their faith is tested and it fails. These are the ones who will fall away. Faith comes by the Word and if you aren't feeding on it, if you aren't praying, if you are not baptized by the Holy Spirit, you will be like the virgins who did not have oil for their lamps.

 

[Ritajanice]

If you have been Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed....which happens to be God’s seed the Holy Spirit, there is NO question that his “ Living “word will stay in your heart, as he testifies with our spirit all day every day that we are Gods children, the seed in us is the witness , the Holy Spirit.....that’s where the Living word of God resides.in your heart.

His Living word is what leads you through scripture to understand....we are spiritual children of God, we’re “ Alive in the Spirit....

One knows imo that they are Born Again 100%...as Spirit gives birth to spirit ,mind blowing supernatural/ spiritual rebirth.....and .as his word says.

Hebrews 4:12​

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King James Version​

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12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


There is NO doubting Gods word , as we were chosen and predestined to be Born Again...my testimony and belief.100%

I did NOT freely choose to become Born Again...I was predestined by God to become Born Again, all by his Living word and not mans Living word....xx

As for believing in Jesus, we are brought to believe in Jesus initially....then we need the rebirth , God given faith....only then imo can we believe that Jesus is real as is God...because we have the witness of the Holy Spirit.....who gave birth to our spirit, our spirit was birthed into Christ....not our head,xx

Everyone has had a different experience of the rebirth...

You can’t tell someone how to be Born Again the way you were Born Again....I see that a lot on here do that and I’ve done exactly the same....God has shown me otherwise.

It’s none of my business who are Born Again....keep focused on my own salvation.xx

 

[TonyChanYT]

If you have been Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed....which happens to be God’s seed the Holy Spirit, there is NO question that his “ Living “word will stay in your heart

Right. However, that is NOT the OP's question. Please focus on the following question if you are able.

Could a believer fall away?

This is the 2nd time I have asked.

 

[Ritajanice]

Right. However, that is NOT the OP's question. Please focus on the following question if you are able.

Could a believer fall away?

This is the 2nd time I have asked.

A believer must be Born Again to never fall away, as they have been Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed, that liveth and abideth forever.

The seed, liveth and abideth in the heart of a true believer who has been Born Of The Spirit.

So in answer to your question. NO....a believer who was Born Again by the Spirit of God, can NEVER fall away.

Hope that answers your question.

 

[JohnDB]

So....
It's a question of what type of soil you are made of obviously. What do you have within you?
Weed seed?
Hard at the heart with too many rocks?
Or rich soil that has been judiciously waiting for good news to pour yourself into with great passion?

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Right. However, that is NOT the OP's question. Please focus on the following question if you are able.

Could a believer fall away?

This is the 2nd time I have asked.

Just off the top of my head I would have to say yes, depending.

You ask on what?

I say it depends on if a believer is true in faith and not just claiming to be such as they have no idea what that means or how to get there.

You churches do not teach how. You churches' just give lip service to the " We walk by faith" idea and if you ask those leaving from a sunday service or a Wednesday bible study what that means they truly cannot explain it.
My own church's mission statement does not, IMO, impress deep within the core of ones beliefs that would actually stop someone from falling away.
"Saved by Grace Alone, through Christ Alone, we love God, love others, and share the Gospel!"
Of course... they also follow a predestined form of thought..... I DO NOT.

These are those who will go home feeling they are okay in their beliefs but without understanding... just feeling that way because someone told them they were.... until a trauma or calamity happens in their immediate circle
and enters the doubting.

So , yes, I can see a believer fall away. But it is complicated.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

A believer must be Born Again to never fall away, as they have been Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed, that liveth and abideth forever.

The seed, liveth and abideth in the heart of a true believer who has been Born Of The Spirit.

So in answer to your question. NO....a believer who was Born Again by the Spirit of God, can NEVER fall away.

Hope that answers your question.

Do you think a true "Born Again" would ever be angry with God?

My friend who had a bad upbringing, and got married to a man who physically abused her and cuase miscarriages to happen... until she ultimately got a divorce... (I know)... and married a man who loved and cherished her was a strong believer... UNTIL... they got pregnant but something happened in the delivery and her uterus broke and the baby was born with spina bifida AND cerebral palsy.

That child still lives today at the age of 43 in a Shriners home her entire life from the age of 4. Wheelchair bound and unable to talk.

My friend would tell you she was so angry with God for so many years. Not really wanting any parts of him... until she finally relented but I don't think she ever felt the way towards Him that she did before.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Hope that answers your question.

No. See Can we lose our salvation? and follow up there.

Here, I am asking a different question: According to Jesus, could a believer fall away?

This is the 3rd time I have asked. You are having trouble distinguishing this question from Can we lose our salvation?. I prefer to interact with people who can. You need to stop answering questions that I have not asked in this thread. You are having trouble thinking with precision. I prefer to interact with people who can think and write precisely.

 

[APAK]

No, the believer who is joined in spiritual holy matrimony with Christ, presided over by the Father God can never be lost or abandoned; as if the Father would then deliberately dissolve this holy marriage that he alone created in the first place.

'Falling away' is a very misunderstood expression, as used in the NT. It mostly if not always means one who is seeking or attempts to seek God in Christ by their own means, absent of the Spirit of God, and then departs after a time, and loses interest.

 

[Ritajanice]

Do you think a true "Born Again" would ever be angry with God?

Yes I would, I’ve had many a fight with God, he always gets his way though...he’s been extremely patient with me and he is the only one who has ever been able to calm me down, that has taken him years to get me to this place that I’m now at....xx....Only God knows the heart trauma I’ve been through in my life and only he could walk me through my past to bring me to a place of understanding it...he showed me the source of my pain and through many years Of counselling, I’m in a really good place, full of Gods peace.xx

My friend who had a bad upbringing, and got married to a man who physically abused her and cuase miscarriages to happen... until she ultimately got a divorce... (I know)... and married a man who loved and cherished her was a strong believer... UNTIL... they got pregnant but something happened in the delivery and her uterus broke and the baby was born with spina bifida AND cerebral palsy.

That child still lives today at the age of 43 in a Shriners home her entire life from the age of 4. Wheelchair bound and unable to talk.

My friend would tell you she was so angry with God for so many years. Not really wanting any parts of him... until she finally relented but I don't think she ever felt the way towards Him that she did before.

I can understand that 100% I had my heart truly broken as a believer...I have never encountered what she did and if I experienced a tragedy, I have no idea how I would react to God after it.

Thank you for sharing, xx

 

[Ritajanice]

No. See Can we lose our salvation? and follow up there.

Here, I am asking a different question: According to Jesus, could a believer fall away?

This is the 3rd time I have asked. You are having trouble distinguishing this question from Can we lose our salvation?. I prefer to interact with people who can. You need to stop answering questions that I have not asked in this thread. You are having trouble thinking with precision. I prefer to interact with people who can think and write precisely.

Tony, I have explained what a believer is imo...you don’t understand what I’m saying, therefore I’m not going to go over the same ground...

Unfortunately Tony we all have our own way of communication...I’m afraid I can’t change the way I understand things of Gods word, to accommodate your precision of thinking, I’m “ ME” Tony and will continue to be so....I would hate to control others in their thinking and how they present their thinking.

You are going to find all sorts here....something you are going to have to deal with and understand that everyone is unique ..plus it sounds to me like, you like to control a discussion, no @TonyChanYT , you won’t be doing that with me ..sorry....xxx

Faith to truly believe in the Son, comes from God, which can never be taken away, how can you fall away from God given belief/ faith, you can’t.

 

[mailmandan]

The real question is whether someone is born again, a true conversion. Demons believe and are not saved. These "received the word immediately with joy", that is, they had an emotional response, but did not respond with repentance. Rather they continued on as they were.

Much love!

Exactly. In James 2:19, we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ and are not saved. (Acts 16:31) Not all belief is the same. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of firmly rooted and established belief" resulting in salvation. We see with this in Luke 8:13, which is a shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit, and withers away. This belief was not rooted in a regenerate heart.

 

[Ritajanice]

No, the believer who is joined in spiritual holy matrimony with Christ, presided over by the Father God can never be lost or abandoned; as if the Father would then deliberately dissolve this holy marriage that he alone created in the first place.

Amen!!..xx...Spirit gives birth to spirit...

 

[Ronald Nolette]

A believer is someone who believes. Could a believer fall away?

Please focus on the above definition and the verse below. This is the third and last time I have asked.

Luke 8:

Well I HAVE TO ASK, FALL AWAY FROM WHAT?

Can they fall away from some things? sure! But remember there are two separate words we translate falling away.

apostasia and ephistemi apostasy is a noun while ephistemi is a verb.
while they are very similar in meaning they also have differences.

A believer cannot fall away from salvation.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Tony, I have explained what a believer

We are not communicating. Please focus. I am not asking you what a believer is.

Here, I am asking a different question: According to Jesus, could a believer fall away?

This is the 4th time I have asked. You are having trouble distinguishing this question from Can we lose our salvation?. I prefer to interact with people who can. You need to stop answering questions that I have not asked in this thread. You are having trouble thinking with precision. I prefer to interact with people who can think and write precisely

 

[TonyChanYT]

Well I HAVE TO ASK, FALL AWAY FROM WHAT?

I am using the term Jesus used. Whatever Jesus meant by that is fine. Please focus on the question: According to Jesus, could a believer fall away?

I am not asking what you think or what I think. I am asking what Jesus thought on this.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I am using the term Jesus used. Whatever Jesus meant by that is fine. Please focus on the question: According to Jesus, could a believer fall away?

I am not asking what you think or what I think. I am asking what Jesus thought on this.

Well as He only used the word and did not pick a specific category, I do not know what He was thinking.

He only uses it in a parable (sower and the seeds) and based on the text of the parable I would say that these people fell away from the appearance of being believers but were not real believers (Matt. 7) . So their falling away is what John said in 1 John 2:19