They Will Think To Change Times And Laws

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precepts

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Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
Gen 7:12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

Gen 7:17And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

Gen 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

Gen 8:3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated. Gen 8:4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

My question is, if the flood started on the 17th day of the 2th month and the ark rested on the 17th of the 7th month after 150 days, which calendar known to man today fits this category? A hundred and fifty days from the time given is 5 months of 30 days each. There's no calendar existing today that fits this time span.

According to history, the calendar we presently use, originally Egyptian, was 1st adopted by Julius Ceasar as Pontificum Maximus (the Julian calendar) then later revised by Pope Gregory (the Gregorian calendar). The question remains as to why Christianity would adopt a pagan solar calendar rather than the original Genesis calendar? As for the calendar the Jews use today, it doesn't fit the 150 days for the 5 months.

I have solid proof for a 360 days, 12 months, 30 days a month calendar which is not in existance today. Why?

Your thoughts and suggestions, please.
 

veteran

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Your title reference to Daniel 7:25 is not about changing calendars. It's about the antichrist seeking to change an appointed occasion (Hebrew 'zeman').

Dan 7:25-27
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws:
and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, Whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey Him.
(KJV)

Here's the Revelation reference to that Dan.7 event...


Rev 13:4-7
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
(KJV)


The Daniel 7:25 verse must be kept in context with the subject it's given with, which is not about man's calendars vs. God's, but about an appointed time for Christ's return which the dragon will seek to change by setting himself up in Christ's place to be worshipped instead of Christ.
 

precepts

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veteran's
Your title reference to Daniel 7:25 is not about changing calendars. It's about the antichrist seeking to change an appointed occasion (Hebrew 'zeman').
That's a matter of opinion. If we had the date from eden and were greeted with the date everytime we enter a church, that would separate the believer from the world which would be evidence that the world is not of God. The world claims that the world is millions of years old which is contrary to the word of God. By eliminating the original calendar and date from Eden, the world has erased the reality of God from the world. The calendars we use all originate from Paganism!


veteran's
The Daniel 7:25 verse must be kept in context with the subject it's given with, which is not about man's calendars vs. God's, but about an appointed time for Christ's return which the dragon will seek to change by setting himself up in Christ's place to be worshipped instead of Christ.
Once again it's a matter of opinion. You, like others, fail to acknowledge that there's no gap between the kingdoms in Daniel's vision. Daniel 7 refers to the 4th beast having ten horns of which the 11th horn, which is the 5th beast in Daniel and the 2th beast in Revelation, springs up and plucks up 3. Historically, only the first 11 kings of Rome were native to Rome by birth or bloodline, that's a fact! Only the first 10 of the 11 kings held the title of Caesar. Nerva, the 11th king, made the kings/emperors to be the Caesars which lasted til the fall of Rome. Nerva also instituted the worship of the 8th king, Titus Vespasian Flavius who coincidentally destroyed the temple in 70ad.

If one was to realize that there is 4/5 beast kingdoms and 4/5 horsemen, then one would come to the understanding that they represent the "Beast" and the 4 angels that were bound in the river Euphrates. That is how I came to understand Revelation. Plus, the lil horn which is the 5th/2nd beast of Revelation lasts to the end of the world. It conquers, stomps, and crushes the world as Rome has done by instituting an Egyptian solar calendar instead of the original Genesis calendar which the Jews would of been using, having the date from Eden to present. Rome and Pope Gregory went the way of the world on that one to hide the truth of God's existence to the world. That's a fact!
 

TexUs

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I have solid proof for a 360 days, 12 months, 30 days a month calendar which is not in existance today. Why?
I don't think it matters.
Daniel 7, I'd agree with Veteran, doesn't speak toward a calendar changing. Changing "times" certainly sounds to me like changing events rather than a shifting in calendars.
 

Martin W.

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My question is, if the flood started on the 17th day of the 2th month and the ark rested on the 17th of the 7th month after 150 days, which calendar known to man today fits this category? A hundred and fifty days from the time given is 5 months of 30 days each. There's no calendar existing today that fits this time span.

According to history, the calendar we presently use, originally Egyptian, was 1st adopted by Julius Ceasar as Pontificum Maximus (the Julian calendar) then later revised by Pope Gregory (the Gregorian calendar). The question remains as to why Christianity would adopt a pagan solar calendar rather than the original Genesis calendar? As for the calendar the Jews use today, it doesn't fit the 150 days for the 5 months.

I have solid proof for a 360 days, 12 months, 30 days a month calendar which is not in existance today. Why?

Your thoughts and suggestions, please.

precepts:

Just a general comment for now , We feel Moses wrote Genesis , we understand they used the 360 day calendar , and Israel still does today

The Julian calendar was mostly designed to account for the extra 5 days a year missed by the Israel calendar. It is more of a timekeeping issue than a religious one. My opinion anyway.

I do agree that we must use the 360 day calendar for Old Testament dating.
 

precepts

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Tex's
I don't think it matters.
Daniel 7, I'd agree with Veteran, doesn't speak toward a calendar changing. Changing "times" certainly sounds to me like changing events rather than a shifting in calendars.
I think it's safe to say you're not interested in today's date from Eden?


Martin's
Just a general comment for now , We feel Moses wrote Genesis , we understand they used the 360 day calendar , and Israel still does today
If they did, Hanukka wouldn't be celebrated the same time of year every year.

Martin's
The Julian calendar was mostly designed to account for the extra 5 days a year missed by the Israel calendar. It is more of a timekeeping issue than a religious one. My opinion anyway.
Define "missed" and explain why you think that man's time keeping is better than God's.
 

tomwebster

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My question is, if the flood started on the 17th day of the 2th month and the ark rested on the 17th of the 7th month after 150 days, which calendar known to man today fits this category? A hundred and fifty days from the time given is 5 months of 30 days each. There's no calendar existing today that fits this time span.

According to history, the calendar we presently use, originally Egyptian, was 1st adopted by Julius Ceasar as Pontificum Maximus (the Julian calendar) then later revised by Pope Gregory (the Gregorian calendar). The question remains as to why Christianity would adopt a pagan solar calendar rather than the original Genesis calendar? As for the calendar the Jews use today, it doesn't fit the 150 days for the 5 months.

I have solid proof for a 360 days, 12 months, 30 days a month calendar which is not in existance today. Why?

Your thoughts and suggestions, please.

Precepts, You are a bit confused, the flood of Noah lasted 375 days, that is from the start of the flood until Noah and his family got of the ark. Noah used the solar calendar, He measured from the spring equinox to the fall equinox to spring again.


precepts:

Just a general comment for now , We feel Moses wrote Genesis , we understand they used the 360 day calendar , and Israel still does today

The Julian calendar was mostly designed to account for the extra 5 days a year missed by the Israel calendar. It is more of a timekeeping issue than a religious one. My opinion anyway.

...


Israel's calendar was a solar calendar at the start and it had 365 days. They did not miss 5 days
 

precepts

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Tom's
Precepts, You are a bit confused, the flood of Noah lasted 375 days, that is from the start of the flood until Noah and his family got of the ark. Noah used the solar calendar, He measured from the spring equinox to the fall equinox to spring again.
Didn't I state that I have solid proof? Where's yours?
 

tomwebster

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Verses please! A


Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
Gen 7:12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
Gen 7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
Gen 7:14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
Gen 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
Gen 7:16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
Gen 7:17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
Gen 7:18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
Gen 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
Gen 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
Gen 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
Gen 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Gen 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

Gen 8:1 And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged;
Gen 8:2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;
Gen 8:3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.
Gen 8:4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.
Gen 8:5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.
Gen 8:6 And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:
Gen 8:7 And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.
Gen 8:8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;
Gen 8:9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
Gen 8:10 And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;
Gen 8:11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
Gen 8:12 And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.
Gen 8:13 And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.
Gen 8:14 And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried.
Gen 8:15 And God spake unto Noah, saying,
Gen 8:16 Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee.
 

precepts

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Tom's
Noah used the solar calendar, He measured from the spring equinox to the fall equinox to spring again.
Sounds like an assumption to me! Can you prove it? Nope!

Tom's
Precepts, You are a bit confused, the flood of Noah lasted 375 days, that is from the start of the flood until Noah and his family got of the ark.
Quote me where I said different.

My original comment:
My question is, if the flood started on the 17th day of the 2th month and the ark rested on the 17th of the 7th month after 150 days, which calendar known to man today fits this category? A hundred and fifty days from the time given is 5 months of 30 days each. There's no calendar existing today that fits this time span.
Which is verified in Gen 8:3-4, after 150 days the ark rested on the 17th of the 7th month.
 

tomwebster

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Tom's
Sounds like an assumption to me! Can you prove it? Nope!

Tom's Quote me where I said different.

My original comment:
Which is verified in Gen 8:3-4, after 150 days the ark rested on the 17th of the 7th month.


That is the second 150 days, 7:24 is the first set of 150 days. And the ark rested, it stopped floating around. Noah and family did not get off the ark until verse 14, many days later.

Check out the words prevailed and abated in Hebrew.
 

precepts

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That is the second 150 days, 7:24 is the first set of 150 days. And the ark rested, it stopped floating around. Noah and family did not get off the ark until verse 14, many days later.

Check out the words prevailed and abated in Hebrew.
Is there any calendar known to man that fits 150 days into 5mths? No!
42mths = 3 1/2yrs = 1260 days.
360 + 360 = 720(times) + 360(time) = 1080 + 180(half a time) = 1260. That's the 100% proof which proves that no Jewish celebration would happen the same time each yr. The 360 days a year calendar laps the 365 days 6 hours a year calendar every 69 yrs by 367 days!
 

veteran

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veteran's
That's a matter of opinion. If we had the date from eden and were greeted with the date everytime we enter a church, that would separate the believer from the world which would be evidence that the world is not of God. The world claims that the world is millions of years old which is contrary to the word of God. By eliminating the original calendar and date from Eden, the world has erased the reality of God from the world. The calendars we use all originate from Paganism!


Not an opinion, but Old Testament Hebrew.

And your whining about Rome's influence on calendar system originating from paganism is a joke, since the nation of Israel during their Babylon captivity began using the old pagan Babylonian calendar, and then later the Greek Macedonian calendar system long... before any Roman Julian or Gregorian calendar system.


CALENDAR

In its later history the nation of Israel adopted all 12 months of the Babylonian calendar as their civil calendar. But not all of the 12 months are listed in the Bible. The seven that occur are: Nisan, the first month <Neh. 2:1>; Sivan, the third month <Esth. 8:9>; Elul, the sixth month <Neh. 6:15>; Chislev, the ninth month <Zech. 7:1>; Tebeth, the tenth month <Esth. 2:16>; Shebat, the eleventh month <Zech. 1:7>; and Adar, the twelfth month <Ezra 6:15>. The first month of this calendar also fell during the springtime.
Since Israel was an agricultural society, its calendar worked well for the people and their religious festivals. In the first month (coinciding with our March April), the fourteenth day was Passover <Ex. 12:18>; the fifteenth day through the twentyfirst day was Unleavened Bread <Lev. 23:6>; the sixteenth day was Firstfruits <Lev. 23:10-14>, dedicating the first-ripe barley sprigs. The second month (April May) marked the celebration of a later Passover, in case some had missed the first celebration <Num. 9:10-11>.
On the sixth day of the third month (May June), the people celebrated Pentecost, which was also called the Feast of Weeks <Lev. 23:15-22>, in commemoration of the completion of the barley and wheat harvests. In the seventh month (September October), the first day was the Feast of Trumpets <Lev. 23:23-25; Num. 29:1>, celebrating the New Year; the tenth day was the Day of Atonement <Lev. 16:29-34; 23:26-32>; the fifteenth to the twenty-second days were the Feast of Tabernacles or Ingathering <Lev. 23:33-43> in commemoration of all the harvests of the year. Thus, the feasts revolved around the harvests.
With regard to the year, the Jewish historian Josephus stated that Israel had two New Years-- the commercial New Year, which began in the fall (seventh month), and the religious New Year, which began in the spring (first month). Since the months were based on the lunar system and since each month averaged 29 1/2 days, the year would be 354 days, or 11 days short of the solar year. In just three years the calendar would be off more than a month.
To reconcile the lunar month with the solar year, Babylon had a sophisticated system where seven months would be added to the calendar over a 19-year cycle, resulting in an error of only two hours and four minutes by the end of the cycle. This is remarkable accuracy for that day. Israel must have adjusted her calendar in a similar fashion by adding a "Second Adar" month whenever necessary.
Between the Testaments-- During the period when the Greeks ruled the ancient world, the Seleucid calendar system was most widely used. Two basic systems were used for reckoning time in the Seleucid era-- the Macedonian calendar and the Babylonian calendar. It is difficult to be dogmatic as to which system was used, but the Jewish people seem to have used the Macedonian calendar. This means the Seleucid era in Jewish history began on the first day of their seventh month, Tishri, about 312/311 B. C.
(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary)
(Copyright (C) 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)



 

precepts

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And your whining about Rome's influence on calendar system originating from paganism is a joke
You're the joke, vet, trying to get personal. Action speaks louder than words and we are not all innocent. The spirit of anti-christ was in the world then and is now.

Is there any calendar known to man that fits 150 days into 5mths? No!
42mths = 3 1/2yrs = 1260 days.
360 + 360 = 720(times) + 360(time) = 1080 + 180(half a time) = 1260. That's the 100% proof which proves that no Jewish celebration would happen the same time each yr. The 360 days a year calendar laps the 365 days 6 hours a year calendar every 69 yrs by 367 days!

 

tomwebster

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veteran's
You're the joke, vet, trying to get personal. Action speaks louder than words and we are not all innocent. The spirit of anti-christ was in the world then and is now.

Is there any calendar known to man that fits 150 days into 5mths? No!
42mths = 3 1/2yrs = 1260 days.
360 + 360 = 720(times) + 360(time) = 1080 + 180(half a time) = 1260. That's the 100% proof which proves that no Jewish celebration would happen the same time each yr. The 360 days a year calendar laps the 365 days 6 hours a year calendar every 69 yrs by 367 days!



Maybe if you used an even larger font someone would believe you, p
Noah used the solar calendar.
 

Martin W.

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Cool it precepts.

You started out with interesting calendar questions.
Now you appear to attack anyone entering the discussion.
What exactly are you trying to accomplish ?
Is your motive to attack or to educate?

I for one , would appreciate it if you focus on attempting to show us your calendar findings.
It is an interesting subject.

Your attacks are much less interesting.
And certainly not educational.


Many thanks
Martin W.
Eager to understand biblical timekeeping.
 

tomwebster

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This is a very interesting read if you can find it:
Israel’s Calendar and the True Sabbath
Copyright, January, 1958 by Curtis Clair Ewing,