This is why most believe that Jesus is a Man/Son and not God.

[face2face]

The inheritance Taken - you know you have avoided this twice now? Don't be afraid.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Johann, I see that an attempt has been made to stir up your flesh. You are bearing up under it well.

 

[face2face]

What you are doing is nitpicking, you should really get to know what a 2ndAorist is.
J.

Both you & Taken have done nothing but avoid these very easy questions. What was the Master inheritance for his obedience - not difficult questions.

 

[Johann]

Do you have any thoughts of your own Johann? I think this is the third time I've asked you to cease from copy and pasting content into your posts.

Like I've said, always three steps ahead of you, I have studied Hebrew and Greek for many years, not that I'm a scholar, and agree with the commentary, not that I am using commentary to exegete a passage of scripture, but confirming what I have already studied.

Secondly. you are not in a position to tell me what, and what not to do, since what I am doing is to honor my Father and my Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.
Thirdly. Since you are Unitarian, you are OBLIDGED to change the scriptures to suit your doctrine which is not what the bible is saying.
Lastly. This is my OP, I am here defending the deity of Christ Jesus through the Ruach HaKodesh, not that my Father needs me to defend anything though, all is perfectly clear in Scriptures and it all depends with what lenses you are reading from.
You need the Holy Spirit to give you wisdom and understanding for without the Spirit, no one belongs to Christ Jesus


1Pe 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;
1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
1Pe 3:16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
1Pe 3:17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

J.

 

[face2face]

Johann, I see that an attempt has been made to stir up your flesh. You are bearing up under it well.

I think I've tried every method possible to get Johann to cease from copy and pasting commentaries and actually open his Bible and read the text for himself. I don't believe this is too much to ask Grace. They both misquoted Isaiah 42 applying trinitarian dogma to a text which had no such thing in mind. All I am asking for from both of them is a little honesty. They don't give away points by being honest and certainly arn't forced to forgo their doctrines.

Here is what is going to happen...I will hold them accountable for misquoting the Scripture at every turn - I might be stirring him up but to date he is not bearing well at all, in fact he is showing how belligerent trinitarians are at perverting truth.

 

[Johann]

Johann, I see that an attempt has been made to stir up your flesh. You are bearing up under it well.

Coming from you, stunnedbygrace, I really appreciate it and like your name, daily I am "Stunned by His grace and mercy toward us"
Yours in Christ
J.

 

[Johann]

I think I've tried every method possible to get Johann to cease from copy and pasting commentaries and actually open his Bible and read the text for himself. I don't believe this is too much to ask Grace. They both misquoted Isaiah 42 applying trinitarian dogma to a text which had no such thing in mind. All I am asking for from both of them is a little honesty. They don't give away points by being honest and certainly arn't forced to forgo their doctrines.

Here is what is going to happen...I will hold them accountable for misquoting the Scripture at every turn - I might be stirring him up but to date he is not bearing well at all, in fact he is showing how belligerent trinitarians are at perverting truth.

You are in no position to hold me accountable, as far as the d'var of YHVH,


Heb_5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
2Pe_2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

J.

.I will hold them accountable for misquoting the Scripture at every turn - I might be stirring him up but to date he is not bearing well at all, in fact he is showing how belligerent trinitarians are at perverting truth

 

[Johann]

Both you & Taken have done nothing but avoid these very easy questions. What was the Master inheritance for his obedience - not difficult questions.

Both Taken and me is doing what Christ Jesus is doing. Answering your question with a question.


When Jesus applies the title “I Am” to himself, he claims to be God (John 8:58). Not a helper to God or a great teacher, but the divine, eternal, pre-existent, infinite, perfect Being. He is Israel’s God. He is greater than Moses because he is the God of Moses. He has life in himself and he can give life to us. The Jews knew taking on this title was making such a claim, which is why they immediately pick up stones to kill him (8:59).

The seven “I Am” statements in John might best be understood as falling under and echoing this initial, ultimate claim of Jesus. He is God, and he is the God of Israel. All the OT and God’s redemptive acts were pointing to the coming of Jesus as the God-in-flesh, the true and better Israel, and the fulfillment of all the OT types and shadows.

1) I Am the Bread of Life
OT Background: Exodus 16; Deut. 8:3; Ps. 78:23-25
NT Fulfillment: John 6:22-59, especially verses 28-35.
Synopsis: Jesus enters a dialogue with Jews who had followed him because of his miracles—including the recent feeding of the 5,000—and yet they missed the reality behind them (he is the Divine Messiah). More important than solving their physical hunger for food through bread, Jesus offers himself as the Bread of Life to fulfill deeper longings and an eternal need.

There is more to the bread from God than the bread itself (Exodus 16). It’s not an earthly bread but a heavenly bread. It comes from above—from God—and comes down to us only by his grace and goodness. We need more than physical bread and we need it from someone other than ourselves. God will provide what we need most, and we should raise our eyes in faith.

Jesus takes this Old Testament background to bread for God’s people and he claims to be the bread of life. He explains the bread in the wilderness of Exodus was only a temporary provision, and that it points to a true and eternal bread from heaven God would later give. This bread is now before the Jews. The manna pictures Jesus, who is sent from God, comes down from heaven, must be taken by faith, who must be eaten/fully taken in, and who gives life.

2) I Am the Light of the World
OT Background: Exodus 13:17-22 (cf. Ex. 14:19-20); Isaiah 42:6 and 49:6 (both verses are in the four Servant Songs of Isaiah).
NT Fulfillment: John 8:12-30. See also John 1:4-5; 3:19-21; 9:5; 12:35-36).
Synopsis: Light is one of the most prominent themes in John’s Gospel. The world is lost and hopeless in darkness (John 1:4-14). The darkness cannot change its condition. Light must enter and invade. One cannot see or lead others in the darkness, so light is necessary to guide us and walk forward. John picks up light from a rich OT heritage and shows how Jesus is the light.

Based upon the fact that in John 8:12 Jesus ties the idea of being the light with his people following after him in the light, the most likely OT background in mind here is the light of God’s presence leading Israel in the wilderness via the pillar of fire (Exodus 13-14). Just as the Israelites were led by the pillar of fire (light) in the exodus and saved from the Egyptians as they crossed the Red Sea, so also Jesus says those who follow him (light) will have life.

A secondary OT background of the image of light is found in Isaiah 42:6 and 49:6. This light has to do with the salvation of the nations, and it is probably the primary reference in other passages like John 12:35-36, 46.

3) I Am the door or gate & 4) I Am the Good Shepherd
OT Background: Psalms 118:20 (gates = door); Ezekiel 34 and Jeremiah 23 (cf. Isaiah 40:11; Numbers 27:15-18; Micah 5:4)
NT Fulfillment: John 10:1-18
Synopsis: In John 10:1-18, Jesus makes two of the I Am sayings together. He claims he is the both the door through which the sheep enter as well as the Shepherd who knows the sheep and lays down his life for them. The metaphor of the door does not have the rich OT background as shepherding imagery does. But, Jesus is both the only way (door) a person enters into the people of God and the one who gives his life for the life of sheep, whom he knows and protects. He is the one who gathers the sheep and cares for them (shepherd) and he’s also the means by which they enter and are kept safe (door).

We should recall that Jesus is talking to the Pharisees in this conversation. The claims to be a good shepherd and Israel’s true shepherd was (in part) a rebuke against them. As the influential teachers in Israel, they should have led the people to truth. They should have put the people before themselves. They should serve God’s agenda rather than their own. But the Pharisees are like the bad shepherds in Ezekiel 34 and Jeremiah 23, leading them astray through false doctrine, prioritizing themselves over the sheep, and abusing them. Through this metaphor, Jesus at once lumps the Pharisees into the camp of the false prophets and bad shepherds of the OT while claiming to be the true and good shepherd those same OT passages promised (Ezek. 34:11-16, 22-24; Jer. 23:3-4).

Jesus comes not to pile burdens on but to relieve them and carry them himself. Jesus comes not to scatter the sheep but to gather them. Jesus comes not to devour the sheep but to defend them. Jesus comes to seek out, rescue, heal, and feed the sheep. He will do so because he loves the sheep and they belong to him. This is proven and accomplished by him giving up his life for his sheep.

5) I Am the resurrection, and the life
OT Background: Genesis 1-3; Isaiah 53:10
NT Fulfillment: John 11:17-27
Synopsis: Similar to other I Am statements, Jesus doesn’t just talk about what he can do or give, but who He is. He doesn’t just give bread (like Moses) but he is the bread. He doesn’t merely reflect light; he is the light. So also, in John 11, Jesus says I am the resurrection and the life.

The OT background isn’t as clear here as other statements, but most commentators believe Genesis 1-3 is partially in view. God is the Creator and Life-giver, granting life to creation and breathing life into Adam. However, the first Adam chose sin which brought about death for mankind and brokenness for the creation. Jesus comes as the second Adam, righteous and blameless in all his ways, comes to undo what Adam did and reverse the curse (Rom. 5:12-21; 1 Cor. 15). Where Adam brought about death and decay, Jesus gives life and restoration. He provides not only resurrection and life to individuals who believe in him but for the entire world.

While many of the Jews wanted things from Jesus without having to receive and believe in Jesus, the offer of Jesus is himself. He doesn’t give bread and allow people to reject submission and belief to him, nor does he offer to give life apart from that life being found in him. These are free and gracious gifts, and they come only in and through Jesus. He is the resurrection and the life. He is the 2ndAdam, bringing resurrection and life where the first Adam offered us only death.

6) I Am the way, the truth, and the life
OT Background: Exodus 26:33; Leviticus 16
NT Fulfillment: John 14:6
Synopsis: It’s likely Jesus is here contrasting himself to the many ways in the OT that God prescribed for how the Jews could approach and relate to him. The systems of the sacrifices, temple, the curtain, tabernacle, and other means of worship were temporary “ways” to God. As the NT makes clear, these things in and of themselves did not cleanse or make people acceptable to God, but they were avenue by which God’s people could walk in faith and follow after Him (see Hebrews 8-9).

Jesus contrasts himself to anything before him they thought led them to the Father. He is the only one who provides the way to the Father, but he is also at the same time to the full revelation of the Father (truth). Jesus is telling them there’s nowhere else to look; nowhere you need to look or can look to find the true path to God. Jesus is that one way and that one path. He offers what Israel looked for and needed, and he replaced all prior things set up as temporary means by which man relates to God. All of these pointed to him and accomplished limited things (such as only making people ceremonially clean but not truly clean), and he is now here and able to accomplish salvation and redemption fully.

7) I Am the true vine
OT Background: Two vineyard songs: Isaiah 5:1-7 (the desolate vineyard) & Isaiah 27:2-6 (the fruitful vineyard).
NT Fulfillment: John 15:1-6
Synopsis: Here in the last I Am statement, Jesus speaks of a vine, a common OT symbol for Israel (God’s people). The language of the unfruitful branches is tied to Israel as the desolate vineyard in Isaiah 5, but Jesus says the people of God have life and fruit now by being in him, as pictured in Isaiah 27:2-6. Jesus is not simply saying Christians are fruitful by resting in him (though this is true), but he’s making the redemptive-historical claim he is the new Israel.

He both fulfills Israel’s destiny (because Israel never could) and is the one in whom the people of God find true, flourishing, fruitful life. He is the true and better Israel, succeeding where they failed, bringing flourishing life and fruit where they dried out and offered nothing on the vine.

The 7 “I AM” Statements of Jesus: OT Background & NT Meaning

J.

 

[face2face]

Both Taken and me is doing what Christ Jesus is doing. Answering your question with a question.


When Jesus applies the title “I Am” to himself, he claims to be God (John 8:58). Not a helper to God or a great teacher, but the divine, eternal, pre-existent, infinite, perfect Being. He is Israel’s God. He is greater than Moses because he is the God of Moses. He has life in himself and he can give life to us. The Jews knew taking on this title was making such a claim, which is why they immediately pick up stones to kill him (8:59).

The seven “I Am” statements in John might best be understood as falling under and echoing this initial, ultimate claim of Jesus. He is God, and he is the God of Israel. All the OT and God’s redemptive acts were pointing to the coming of Jesus as the God-in-flesh, the true and better Israel, and the fulfillment of all the OT types and shadows.

1) I Am the Bread of Life
OT Background: Exodus 16; Deut. 8:3; Ps. 78:23-25
NT Fulfillment: John 6:22-59, especially verses 28-35.
Synopsis: Jesus enters a dialogue with Jews who had followed him because of his miracles—including the recent feeding of the 5,000—and yet they missed the reality behind them (he is the Divine Messiah). More important than solving their physical hunger for food through bread, Jesus offers himself as the Bread of Life to fulfill deeper longings and an eternal need.

There is more to the bread from God than the bread itself (Exodus 16). It’s not an earthly bread but a heavenly bread. It comes from above—from God—and comes down to us only by his grace and goodness. We need more than physical bread and we need it from someone other than ourselves. God will provide what we need most, and we should raise our eyes in faith.

Jesus takes this Old Testament background to bread for God’s people and he claims to be the bread of life. He explains the bread in the wilderness of Exodus was only a temporary provision, and that it points to a true and eternal bread from heaven God would later give. This bread is now before the Jews. The manna pictures Jesus, who is sent from God, comes down from heaven, must be taken by faith, who must be eaten/fully taken in, and who gives life.

2) I Am the Light of the World
OT Background: Exodus 13:17-22 (cf. Ex. 14:19-20); Isaiah 42:6 and 49:6 (both verses are in the four Servant Songs of Isaiah).
NT Fulfillment: John 8:12-30. See also John 1:4-5; 3:19-21; 9:5; 12:35-36).
Synopsis: Light is one of the most prominent themes in John’s Gospel. The world is lost and hopeless in darkness (John 1:4-14). The darkness cannot change its condition. Light must enter and invade. One cannot see or lead others in the darkness, so light is necessary to guide us and walk forward. John picks up light from a rich OT heritage and shows how Jesus is the light.

Based upon the fact that in John 8:12 Jesus ties the idea of being the light with his people following after him in the light, the most likely OT background in mind here is the light of God’s presence leading Israel in the wilderness via the pillar of fire (Exodus 13-14). Just as the Israelites were led by the pillar of fire (light) in the exodus and saved from the Egyptians as they crossed the Red Sea, so also Jesus says those who follow him (light) will have life.

A secondary OT background of the image of light is found in Isaiah 42:6 and 49:6. This light has to do with the salvation of the nations, and it is probably the primary reference in other passages like John 12:35-36, 46.

3) I Am the door or gate & 4) I Am the Good Shepherd
OT Background: Psalms 118:20 (gates = door); Ezekiel 34 and Jeremiah 23 (cf. Isaiah 40:11; Numbers 27:15-18; Micah 5:4)
NT Fulfillment: John 10:1-18
Synopsis: In John 10:1-18, Jesus makes two of the I Am sayings together. He claims he is the both the door through which the sheep enter as well as the Shepherd who knows the sheep and lays down his life for them. The metaphor of the door does not have the rich OT background as shepherding imagery does. But, Jesus is both the only way (door) a person enters into the people of God and the one who gives his life for the life of sheep, whom he knows and protects. He is the one who gathers the sheep and cares for them (shepherd) and he’s also the means by which they enter and are kept safe (door).

We should recall that Jesus is talking to the Pharisees in this conversation. The claims to be a good shepherd and Israel’s true shepherd was (in part) a rebuke against them. As the influential teachers in Israel, they should have led the people to truth. They should have put the people before themselves. They should serve God’s agenda rather than their own. But the Pharisees are like the bad shepherds in Ezekiel 34 and Jeremiah 23, leading them astray through false doctrine, prioritizing themselves over the sheep, and abusing them. Through this metaphor, Jesus at once lumps the Pharisees into the camp of the false prophets and bad shepherds of the OT while claiming to be the true and good shepherd those same OT passages promised (Ezek. 34:11-16, 22-24; Jer. 23:3-4).

Jesus comes not to pile burdens on but to relieve them and carry them himself. Jesus comes not to scatter the sheep but to gather them. Jesus comes not to devour the sheep but to defend them. Jesus comes to seek out, rescue, heal, and feed the sheep. He will do so because he loves the sheep and they belong to him. This is proven and accomplished by him giving up his life for his sheep.

5) I Am the resurrection, and the life
OT Background: Genesis 1-3; Isaiah 53:10
NT Fulfillment: John 11:17-27
Synopsis: Similar to other I Am statements, Jesus doesn’t just talk about what he can do or give, but who He is. He doesn’t just give bread (like Moses) but he is the bread. He doesn’t merely reflect light; he is the light. So also, in John 11, Jesus says I am the resurrection and the life.

The OT background isn’t as clear here as other statements, but most commentators believe Genesis 1-3 is partially in view. God is the Creator and Life-giver, granting life to creation and breathing life into Adam. However, the first Adam chose sin which brought about death for mankind and brokenness for the creation. Jesus comes as the second Adam, righteous and blameless in all his ways, comes to undo what Adam did and reverse the curse (Rom. 5:12-21; 1 Cor. 15). Where Adam brought about death and decay, Jesus gives life and restoration. He provides not only resurrection and life to individuals who believe in him but for the entire world.

While many of the Jews wanted things from Jesus without having to receive and believe in Jesus, the offer of Jesus is himself. He doesn’t give bread and allow people to reject submission and belief to him, nor does he offer to give life apart from that life being found in him. These are free and gracious gifts, and they come only in and through Jesus. He is the resurrection and the life. He is the 2ndAdam, bringing resurrection and life where the first Adam offered us only death.

6) I Am the way, the truth, and the life
OT Background: Exodus 26:33; Leviticus 16
NT Fulfillment: John 14:6
Synopsis: It’s likely Jesus is here contrasting himself to the many ways in the OT that God prescribed for how the Jews could approach and relate to him. The systems of the sacrifices, temple, the curtain, tabernacle, and other means of worship were temporary “ways” to God. As the NT makes clear, these things in and of themselves did not cleanse or make people acceptable to God, but they were avenue by which God’s people could walk in faith and follow after Him (see Hebrews 8-9).

Jesus contrasts himself to anything before him they thought led them to the Father. He is the only one who provides the way to the Father, but he is also at the same time to the full revelation of the Father (truth). Jesus is telling them there’s nowhere else to look; nowhere you need to look or can look to find the true path to God. Jesus is that one way and that one path. He offers what Israel looked for and needed, and he replaced all prior things set up as temporary means by which man relates to God. All of these pointed to him and accomplished limited things (such as only making people ceremonially clean but not truly clean), and he is now here and able to accomplish salvation and redemption fully.

7) I Am the true vine
OT Background: Two vineyard songs: Isaiah 5:1-7 (the desolate vineyard) & Isaiah 27:2-6 (the fruitful vineyard).
NT Fulfillment: John 15:1-6
Synopsis: Here in the last I Am statement, Jesus speaks of a vine, a common OT symbol for Israel (God’s people). The language of the unfruitful branches is tied to Israel as the desolate vineyard in Isaiah 5, but Jesus says the people of God have life and fruit now by being in him, as pictured in Isaiah 27:2-6. Jesus is not simply saying Christians are fruitful by resting in him (though this is true), but he’s making the redemptive-historical claim he is the new Israel.

He both fulfills Israel’s destiny (because Israel never could) and is the one in whom the people of God find true, flourishing, fruitful life. He is the true and better Israel, succeeding where they failed, bringing flourishing life and fruit where they dried out and offered nothing on the vine.

The 7 “I AM” Statements of Jesus: OT Background & NT Meaning

J.

Isaiah 42 Johann - I've asked the questions - I am wanting to see if you can enter the Word rather than your commentaries.

 

[face2face]

@Taken @Johann (no trick here boys...just checking to see if you read your Bibles...no need to copy and paste from your commentaries?)

Lets dig a little deeper into Isaiah 42 shall we?

Who is the audience being spoken to in Isaiah 42:6-7 ?

Who is the audience being spoken to in Isaiah 42:8-9 ?

Expecting two one word answers.

Remember this has nothing to do with Trinity - context is KING.

 

[Johann]

Isaiah 42 Johann - I've asked the questions - I am wanting to see if you can enter the Word rather than your commentaries.

God.
The New Testament rarely calls Jesus “God” as such (Gk. theos). “Lord,” stressing his co-regency with the Father as Son, or “Christ,” hallowing the kingly function he fulfilled, is preferred. Still, references to Jesus as God are not absent. John 1:1 clearly equates “the word” with God; in 1:14 it becomes clear that “the word” is Jesus. Arguments by Jehovah’s Witnesses and others proposing different renderings of John 1:1 are untenable.

In John 1:18 some translations call Jesus “God the One and Only” (niv). The King James and other translations, however, follow a manuscript tradition that calls him “Son” here, not God.

Other passages, too, explicitly name Jesus as God. Romans 9:5 speaks of “Christ, who is God over all, forever praised!”

Grammatical rules permit rending 2 Thessalonians 1:12 as “the grace of our God and Lord, Jesus Christ.” The same holds true of Titus 2:13 (“our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ”) and 2 Peter 1:1 (“our God and Savior Jesus Christ”).

Hebrews 1:8 calls the Son God; 1 John 5:20 says of Jesus,“He is the true God and eternal life.”


Such texts confirm the impression given indirectly in other places that Jesus merits the name “God” by virtue of his mastery over wind and sea (Mark 4:41), personification of God’s kingdom (Luke 11:20), ability to forgive sins (Mark 2:7), and intimacy with the invisible Father by which, enemies charged, he presumed to be “equal with God” (John 5:18).

They could not accept that this was not effrontery but his due and possession (Phil. 2:6) from all eternity (John 17:24). It can be concluded that belief in Jesus’ essential divinity (along with his obvious full humanity) extends to all levels of early Christian confession.

At the same time New Testament writers are not indiscriminate in speaking of Jesus as “God.” They realized that despite the Father’s virtual presence through his Son, “no one has ever seen God” in terms of mortals on earth beholding the unmediated fullness of God in heaven (John 1:18). They intuited, if they did not spell out and reflect on, the subtle offsetting truths of later Trinitarian affirmations.

Their restraint in predicating full deity of Jesus is due, among other thing, to his humanity (which the good news of the incarnation [Luke 2:10] was bound to emphasize) and to their theological sophistication: Jews imbued with the sacred truth of God’s oneness—Deuteronomy 6:4, “the Lord is one,” rang out daily in worship—were not so callow as to label fellow humans “God.”

Their own Scriptures, in fact, forbade this (Deut. 4:15–16), violation of which was blasphemy. Those same Scriptures sternly denounced any man “hung on a tree” (Deut. 21:23). Yet the crucified Jesus must be hailed as redeemer, not censured as a crimal (Gal. 3:13–14). By the same logic he must be granted his apparent divine parity. Thus was the man Jesus hailed rightly as God.

Robert W. Yarbrough

Until you answer me re this and why you don't believe that Christ Jesus is both Savior and God WITH the Father, Abba, pros, then there is no reason for dialogue or debate, now is there?

In case you did not noticed, I post a huge amount of scriptures, in context, most unanswered.

J.

 

[Johann]

Isaiah 42 Johann - I've asked the questions - I am wanting to see if you can enter the Word rather than your commentaries.

Already answered your question, always three steps ahead of you.
J.

 

[face2face]

Already answered your question, always three steps ahead of you.
J.

C'mon Johann

@Taken @Johann (no trick here boys...just checking to see if you read your Bibles...no need to copy and paste from your commentaries?)

Lets dig a little deeper into Isaiah 42 shall we?

Who is the audience being spoken to in Isaiah 42:6-7 ?

Who is the audience being spoken to in Isaiah 42:8-9 ?

Expecting two one word answers.

Remember this has nothing to do with Trinity - context is KING.

 

[Johann]

C'mon Johann

@Taken @Johann (no trick here boys...just checking to see if you read your Bibles...no need to copy and paste from your commentaries?)

Lets dig a little deeper into Isaiah 42 shall we?

Who is the audience being spoken to in Isaiah 42:6-7 ?

Who is the audience being spoken to in Isaiah 42:8-9 ?

Expecting two one word answers.

Remember this has nothing to do with Trinity - context is KING.

The art of dialogue, learned a lot from Dr. Brown

 

[face2face]

The art of dialogue, learned a lot from Dr. Brown

I guess this is your way of conceding that Isaiah 42 isn't what you and Taken first thought. Let's see if this old chestnut is quoted again anytime soon...but for now the integrity of this record is preserved for others to revere and respect.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Dug a little deeper?:

Isa 42:13 "The LORD Shall Go Forth As A Mighty Man,
He shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: He shall cry,
yea, roar; He shall Prevail against His enemies.​

Complimentary/Confirming Isa 9:6-7?:

Isa 9:6 "For unto us A [Man] Child Is Born, unto us A SON
Is Given: and the government shall be upon His Shoulder:
and His Name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor,
The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isa 9:7 Of the increase of His Government and Peace there
shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon His
Kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with Judgment and
with Justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of The
LORD of hosts will perform this."

Further Confirmed By?:

500 Plain And Clear Passages The LORD JESUS CHRIST Is Almighty God!

GRACE And Peace...
https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/gods-very-simple-will-under-his-pure-grace.39214/

 

[Johann]

Dug a little deeper?:

Isa 42:13 "The LORD Shall Go Forth As A Mighty Man,
He shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: He shall cry,
yea, roar; He shall Prevail against His enemies.​

Complimentary/Confirming Isa 9:6-7?:

Isa 9:6 "For unto us A [Man] Child Is Born, unto us A SON
Is Given: and the government shall be upon His Shoulder:
and His Name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor,
The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isa 9:7 Of the increase of His Government and Peace there
shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon His
Kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with Judgment and
with Justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of The
LORD of hosts will perform this."

Further Confirmed By?:

500 Plain And Clear Passages The LORD JESUS CHRIST Is Almighty God!

GRACE And Peace...

Nicely done, in context.
My wife was Jewish and have learned a lot from her.
J.

 

[Johann]

I guess this is your way of conceding that Isaiah 42 isn't what you and Taken first thought. Let's see if this old chestnut is quoted again anytime soon...but for now the integrity of this record is preserved for others to revere and respect.

Genesis 1:27

God created man.

The Word of the Lord created man. (Targum Pseudo-Jonathan)

Genesis 6:6–7

And it repented the Lord that he made man on the earth.

And it repented the Lord through his Word that he made man on the earth.

Genesis 9:12

And God said, “This is the sign that I set for the covenant between me and you.”

And the Lord said, “This is the sign that I set for the covenant between my Word and you.”

Genesis 15:6

And Abraham believed in the Lord.

And Abraham believed in the Word of the Lord.

Genesis 20:3

And God came to Abimelech.

And the Word from before the Lord came to Abimelech.

Genesis 31:49

May the Lord keep watch between you and me.

May the Word of the Lord keep watch between you and me.

Exodus 14:31

And they believed in the Lord.

And they believed in the Word of the Lord.

Exodus 20:1

And the Lord spoke all these words.

And the Word of the Lord spoke all these words.

Exodus 25:22

And I will meet with you there.

And I will appoint my Word for you there.31

Leviticus 26:9

And I will turn to you.

And I will turn through my Word to do good to you.

Numbers 10:35

Rise up, O Lord!

Rise up, O Word of the Lord!

Numbers 10:36

Return, O Lord!

Return, O Word of the Lord!

Numbers 11:23

Is the hand of the Lord shortened?

Is the Word of the Lord detained?

Numbers 14:35

I the Lord have spoken.

Is the Lord decreed through my Word.

Deuteronomy 1:26

And you rebelled against the mouth of the Lord your God.

And you rebelled against the Word of the Lord your God.

Deuteronomy 1:30

The Lord your God who goes before you, he himself will fight for you.

The Lord your God who leads before you, his Word will fight for you.

Deuteronomy 18:19

I myself will require it of him.

My Word will require it of him.

Deuteronomy 31:3

The Lord your God will pass before you.

The Lord your God, his Word will pass before you.

Joshua 1:5

As I was with Moses I will be with you.

As my Word was in support of Moses, so my Word will be in your support.

Judges 11:10

The Lord will be witness between us.

The Word of the Lord will be witness between us.

Isaiah 45:17

Israel will be saved by the Lord.

Israel will be saved by the Word of the Lord.

As if these examples aren’t enough (and there are many more), just consider Genesis 28:20–21, Jacob’s vow. In Hebrew, it reads, “If God will be with me and will watch over me on this journey I am taking and will give me food to eat and clothes to wear so that I return safely to my father’s house, then the Lord will be my God.” The Targum says, “If the Word of the Lord will be with me … then the Word of the Lord will be my God.” The Word of the Lord will be Jacob’s God! And this was read in the synagogues for decades, if not centuries. Week in and week out, the people heard about this walking, talking, creating, saving, delivering Word, this Word who was Jacob’s God.

Risto Santala, a Finnish Christian scholar fluent in Hebrew and Rabbinic sources, summarizes the combined evidence from the Targums: “ ‘The Lord’s Memra will be my God’; ‘I will save them through their God, the Lord’s memraʾ; Abraham was justified through the Memra; the Memra gave Israel the Law; Moses prayed to the Memra; Israel was justified through the memraʾs instrumentality and the Memra even created the world.”32 In fact, according to Targum Neofiti, representing important, early traditions, man was created in the image of the memraʾ of the Lord! Consider also Targum Pseudo-Jonathan—a Targum printed in all Rabbinic Bibles (called Mikraʾot Gedolot). Deuteronomy 4:7 in the Hebrew reads, “What other nation is so great as to have their gods near them the way the Lord our God is near us whenever we pray to him?” The Targum instead says, “The Memra of Yahweh sits upon his throne high and lifted up and hears our prayer whenever we pray before him and make our petitions.” That is just some of the Targumic concept of “the Word.”

J.

 

[face2face]

Dug a little deeper?:

Isa 42:13 "The LORD Shall Go Forth As A Mighty Man,
He shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: He shall cry,
yea, roar; He shall Prevail against His enemies.​

Grace, what we you suggesting this verse is teaching?

 

[Johann]

Grace, what we you suggesting this verse is teaching?

grace is not suggesting anything, you are missing the message Christ wants you to know.