This Makes More Sense To Me Now

[stunnedbygrace]

They never found the body of Moses. Remember Satan tried to get it but Michael the archangel disputed with him. (Jude 9) And this was BEFORE Jesus died and rose again.

God had another purpose for Moses.

It says they fought over moses’ body. Is your thought that he was taken rather than died? Deuteronomy says Moses died and was buried in Moab but no one knew exactly where, just opposite a valley, and that he died at 120 years of age.
I think (which is my own musings), that the angel buried him.

But I think there is sufficient scripture that he did actually die.

 

[quietthinker]

There were 3 main festivals that every man had to attend - Passover, Pentecost, Tabernacles.
Passover was at time of barley harvest.
Pentecost, wheat harvest.
Tabernacles, olives and grapes.

So “do not harm the oil (from olives) and the wine” (from grapes) makes some sense to me now.

The thing I disagree with in the man I was listening to when that clicked for me is regarding first fruits, main harvest and gleaning.
I think first fruits already happened, with Jesus and the many of their dead they saw walking around. Then the main harvest would be the gathering together and the gleaning would be…the 144,000 mid trib…I dunno, maybe. Makes sense to me anyway.

consider this sbg, 144000 = 12000x120000...ie, all Israel ...a metaphor for God's people. It's the same crowd that are standing on the sea of glass.

Rev. 15:2 – “I also saw something like a sea of glass mixed with fire, and those who had won the victory over the beast, his image, and the number of his name, were standing on the sea of glass with harps from God.”

 

[Truth7t7]

The 144,000 do not die, are not martyred, and are not killed. They are simply raptured to Heaven before the Tribulation.

The 144,000 represent the "Remnant Church" in the wilderness during the tribulation, they will be in the wilderness of Gilead, Bashan, and Carmel, and fed by God manna from heaven, as the world watches in astonishment

Revelation 12:6KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Micah 7:14-17KJV
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.

 

[Truth7t7]

Aren't they the witnesses? If they are, then no one escapes death before the return of Christ.

We Agree, Enoch/Elijah will be the future two witnesses of Revelation Chapter 11, they will die physical deaths at the end of the tribulation, just prior to the second coming

 

[amigo de christo]

We Agree, Enoch/Elijah will be the future two witnesses of Revelation Chapter 11, they will die physical deaths at the end of the tribulation, just prior to the second coming

Whether or not this is true i know not . But this i do know . KING JESUS WILL COME FOR THE SHEEP ONE DAY in an hour
no man knoweth . AND HOME the lambs shall forever be with HE who has saved us .
TILL then armour up , cause things are only getting worse and only faster so long as we are in this ol world .
Hard times are coming , but fear not man , fear not death , fear not to suffer for the GLORIOUS KING
who already suffered for the lambs . JUST remember the great HOPE we have on the glorious DAY OF THE LORD .

 

[Truth7t7]

They never found the body of Moses. Remember Satan tried to get it but Michael the archangel disputed with him. (Jude 9) And this was BEFORE Jesus died and rose again.

God had another purpose for Moses.

Moses "Died" a physical death and was "Buried"

Deuteronomy 34:5-7KJV
5 So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord.
6 And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.
7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

consider this sbg, 144000 = 12000x120000...ie, all Israel ...a metaphor for God's people. It's the same crowd that are standing on the sea of glass.

Rev. 15:2 – “I also saw something like a sea of glass mixed with fire, and those who had won the victory over the beast, his image, and the number of his name, were standing on the sea of glass with harps from God.”

A metaphor when it goes into great detail to explain how many from which exact tribes of Israel? Doesn’t make sense to me personally.

 

[Truth7t7]

Ok, we are in the pre-mil view now, the rapture that many deny. I will put that together in my next post.

Forgetting for now the phases of the first resurrection, let's make it simple by just the first resurrection (everyone from the beginning of time to this point of the first resurrection).

What is important to know is that between this resurrection and the second resurrection, there is a span of 1000 years. This period is the Millennial Reign of Christ.

The first resurrection is described by Paul in 1 Thes., it is when all the dead in Christ will come out of the graves and those who remain alive (who are in Christ) will be changed into the resurrected body/glorified body that Christ had at His resurrection.

They will meet Christ in the air, and forever be with the Lord. Now this is the first resurrection that takes place 1000 years before the second resurrection of the damned.

Next I will put together this first resurrection as seen by the pre-mils. This means that those in Christ will not go through the tribulation, they are taken out in this first resurrection before it begins. I will show you that from Scripture as we see it.

The First Resurrection, On The Last Day Explained

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death) resurrection has no power.

1.) (First Resurrection) To Life
2.) (Second Death) Resurrection To Damnation

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Truth7t7]

umm…I can’t grab that assumption either…the “and we who remain” verse has to be fit in somewhere too…

The Living Church On Earth Will Be Brought Through The Lord's Last Day Fire In Judgement, All Men Will Be Judged By This Fire, No Human Body Survives, The Living Church Is "Changed" In The Twinkling Of An Eye

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1 Corinthians 15:52KJV
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[farouk]

The First Resurrection, On The Last Day Explained

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death) resurrection has no power.

1.) (First Resurrection) To Life
2.) (Second Death) Resurrection To Damnation

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

That 1 Corinthian 15 passage about the resurrection is a pivotal one.

John 11 also........

 

[Enoch111]

But I think there is sufficient scripture that he did actually die.

Yet he appeared in bodily form with Elijah at the Transfiguration. So it may not be as cut and dried as some imagine.

Then when you look at the miracles performed by the two witnesses in Revelation 11, you cannot escape the fact that they are actually repeats of what Moses and Elijah did when they were first on earth. Enoch was definitely not a prophet or a miracle worker. Just a friend of God, so God took him to Heaven before the Flood. And Methuselah died in the first month of the year in which the second month began the Flood. So Enoch and Methuselah were absent when the Flood came upon the earth.

 

[quietthinker]

A metaphor when it goes into great detail to explain how many from which exact tribes of Israel? Doesn’t make sense to me personally.

The detail highlights God's people being from 'everywhere', the twelve x twelve factor indicating completeness.
This deduction I've determined from the awareness that God's people are from every nation, tribe and people. There are not two groups ie, Jews and Gentiles. There is only one overarching, what shall I say? 'group' known as God's people. These are also called the Israel of God.
When Jacob wrestled with the angel his name was changed from 'deceiver' to 'him who wrestles with God and prevails'. This is the story of all God's people. Yes, they are prevailers aka Israel.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

If I'm not mistaken only Matthew records this event with the graves opening at the Crucifixion. Which limits the information we need.

The way Matthew explains it there was definitely a resurrection that took place. I've heard a few explanations for this, the only one that comes close to fitting, in my opinion, is that when Paul told us that Christ went to the lower parts and set the captives free, there were some who came out of Paradise at His death on the cross and took up their bodies, and were seen in Jerusalem.

It is assumed that the soul and spirit of man could not enter into heaven because the sin debt of man had not been paid. This would be why the soul and spirit of man went to Paradise. If you remember in Luke 16, Jesus told of the rich man and Lazarus. The rich man died and was buried, and lift his eyes in the flames of Hell. Lazarus died and the angels carried him into Abraham's bosom, which was another name for Paradise.

Jesus explained that there was a great gulf between Hell and Paradise, in other words, the Old Testaments saints were beside Hell with a great gulf between them, until Christ released them sometime before His ascension, and they entered into heaven.

This is as close as I can come to an explanation that makes sense. Of course there are other explanations.

Well, you should listen and learn from your elders. I am eight days older than you. Anyways, we can agree to disagree.

 

[farouk]

They never found the body of Moses. Remember Satan tried to get it but Michael the archangel disputed with him. (Jude 9) And this was BEFORE Jesus died and rose again.

God had another purpose for Moses.

@Marilyn C Yes, this is mentioned in Jude.......

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The detail highlights God's people being from 'everywhere', the twelve x twelve factor indicating completeness.
This deduction I've determined from the awareness that God's people are from every nation, tribe and people. There are not two groups ie, Jews and Gentiles. There is only one overarching, what shall I say? 'group' known as God's people. These are also called the Israel of God.
When Jacob wrestled with the angel his name was changed from 'deceiver' to 'him who wrestles with God and prevails'. This is the story of all God's people. Yes, they are prevailers aka Israel.

I get what you think on it, my mind just doesn’t work that way. I think it used to…at least somewhat. And I see that others around me still work that way in their minds, but I can’t remember how to do that and it’s very foreign to me now. I see it all around me but I can’t do it any more. It seems quite mad to me now. It’s like this one time when a designer wanted me to paint huge flowers on a clients wall. She brought an old tea towel that had abstracted flowers on it and she wanted me to paint, as odd as it sounds, an abstraction of that abstraction. I couldn’t do it. I literally couldn’t even begin to do what was apparently in her mind. The only way to do an abstraction of a flower (or of ANYTHING) is to start WITH the actual thing. You have to look at the ACTUAL thing in order to abstract it. Oh sheesh, that won’t make sense to you…it’s like…I see everyone around me painting abstractions and…seeming to believe their abstractions ARE the real thing. And…I used to sometimes believe their abstractions were the real thing. They convinced me of it. They were so convinced that I also became convinced. And even with much evidence that I wasn’t seeing the real thing, I kept somehow believing their abstraction was the real thing and the real thing was the abstraction. I can’t do that any more. I wouldn’t even want to try. The only reason I used to was…to be accepted by them, included by them, as they would get very angry if I wouldn’t accept their abstraction as the real thing. And I don’t know if people are getting worse or if it’s always been so prevalent but I just couldn’t see it. But I DO see it now, and it has an element to it of…oh I give up. I can’t explain it and neither can I do it any more.

 

[Charlie24]

Enoch cannot witness of Christ to Israel in the trib. Moses and Elijah are designated as the `2 men` who will witness of Christ`s death, resurrection and ascension.

`Then behold, two men talked with Him, who were Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and spoke of His decease which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem.` (Luke 9: 30 & 31)

Here we read of the Lord talking to two men, Moses and Elijah concerning what He was about to do - go to the cross. Then later we see these same two men at other significant times - the tomb and the ascension.

`And it happened, as they were greatly perplexed about this, that behold, two men stood by them in shining garments. Then as they were afraid and bowed their faces to the earth, they (the two men) said to them (disciples) "Why do you seek the living among the dead? he is not here, but is risen...` (Luke 24: 4 - 6)

`And while they looked steadfastly towards heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven." (Acts 1: 10 & 11)

Thus we see that these `two men,` Moses and Elijah knew of the Lord`s sacrifice, His burial and resurrection and finally His ascension into heaven. They are precisely the two men who will be qualified to talk to Israel in the tribulation, for they represent the `law and the Prophets,` and are a `witness` to the Messiah - His death, resurrection and ascension.

That is why they are called `witnesses.` What have they witnessed? - Jesus on earth, talking of His departure, His resurrection and ascension, plus speaking of His return in like manner. Who best qualified to speak of those things but the two witnesses - eye witnesses - Moses & Elijah.

Hello, Marilyn! Well I certainly can't prove you are incorrect about that. Nothing wrong with you believing it's Moses.

All that I have, and what I base my opinion by, is that Moses has already died. That would mean that Moses comes back to earth and witnesses for the Lord and will die again. I can't go with that! "it is appointed to man once to die."

There was a reason that God took Enoch, and I believe he will come back with Elijah and be that second witness for the Lord.

No need for us to argue over something that can't be proven in Scripture.

 

[Charlie24]

We Agree, Enoch/Elijah will be the future two witnesses of Revelation Chapter 11, they will die physical deaths at the end of the tribulation, just prior to the second coming

Good morning, Truth! I see we agree on something here.

But I don't believe it will last very long, lol.

 

[Charlie24]

Well, you should listen and learn from your elders. I am eight days older than you. Anyways, we can agree to disagree.

Always listening, that is a good source of learning!

 

[Charlie24]

Well…what about the souls under the altar in heaven, resting? They are in heaven and it doesn’t sound like they have glorified bodies yet.

Those under the alter in Rev. 6:9-11 have been slain. The first resurrection has already taken place, glorified bodies have already been given.

Vs. 9 says "souls" but this is just an identification, not their state of being. They have received the glorified body. But they must wait until the seals have completed their purpose, and the rest who will die as they have.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Those under the alter in Rev. 6:9-11 have been slain. The first resurrection has already taken place, glorified bodies have already been given.

Vs. 9 says "souls" but this is just an identification, not their state of being. They have received the glorified body. But they must wait until the seals have completed their purpose, and the rest who will die as they have.

IF you suspect, as I do, that the gathering together comes before the tribulation and the wrath of God, you have to do something with the souls under the altar because it specifically says they were beheaded and came from out of the great tribulation, which would be them dying AFTER that first resurrection. If you suspect otherwise and think all must go through the tribulation and wrath, you don’t have that problem.