Thoughts on Charles Finney

[justbyfaith]

Righteousness was imputed to Abraham because of his faith, as it is in the New Testament.

However, in the New Testament, practical righteousness is also imparted (Romans 5:19 (kjv), Matthew 5:6 (kjv), 1 John 3:7 (kjv)) as a free gift (Romans 5:17 (kjv)).

 

[justbyfaith]

The fact that Finney is spoken against says something to me in particular...

Luk 6:22, Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

Luk 6:26, Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

 

[Mjh29]

Righteousness was imputed to Abraham because of his faith, as it is in the New Testament.

However, in the New Testament, practical righteousness is also imparted (Romans 5:19 (kjv), Matthew 5:6 (kjv), 1 John 3:7 (kjv)) as a free gift (Romans 5:17 (kjv)).

So you're saying that God changes the way He saves people in the Old and New Testaments?

 

[Mjh29]

The fact that Finney is spoken against says something to me in particular...

Luk 6:22, Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

Luk 6:26, Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

1. “Several theologians have held that regeneration is the work of the Holy Spirit alone … but I might just as lawfully insist that it is the work of man alone.” – Charles Finney, ‘Lectures On Systematic Theology’: Abridged Edition, p. 224

2. “The doctrine of imputed righteousness, or that Christ’s obedience to the Law was accounted as our obedience, is founded on a most false and nonsensical assumption/” – Charles Finney, ‘Lectures On Systematic Theology’, Worcester: 1851, pages 320-322

3. Christ “could do no more than justify himself. It can never be imputed to us … it was naturally impossible, then, for him to obey on our behalf.” (Ibid.) This doctrine “of representing the atonement as the ground of the sinner’s justification has been a sad occasion of stumbling to many.” – Charles Finney, ‘Lectures On Systematic Theology’, p. 732

4. “We shall see that perseverance in obedience to the end of life is also a condition of justification …” Ibid., p. 735-737
Finney believed that man was saved when he decided to stop sinning and live the rest of his life in righteousness.

5. Salvation “is not founded in Christ’s literally suffering the exact penalty of the Law for them, and in this sense literally purchasing their justification and eternal salvation.” – Lectures On Systematic Theology, p. 747


Galatians 1:8-9
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

[justbyfaith]

So you're saying that God changes the way He saves people in the Old and New Testaments?

Jhn 7:39, (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

2Th 2:13, But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
.
.
.
1Jo 1:7, But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Heb 13:12, Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

Heb 10:29, Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

 

[justbyfaith]

1. “Several theologians have held that regeneration is the work of the Holy Spirit alone … but I might just as lawfully insist that it is the work of man alone.” – Charles Finney, ‘Lectures On Systematic Theology’: Abridged Edition, p. 224

2. “The doctrine of imputed righteousness, or that Christ’s obedience to the Law was accounted as our obedience, is founded on a most false and nonsensical assumption/” – Charles Finney, ‘Lectures On Systematic Theology’, Worcester: 1851, pages 320-322

3. Christ “could do no more than justify himself. It can never be imputed to us … it was naturally impossible, then, for him to obey on our behalf.” (Ibid.) This doctrine “of representing the atonement as the ground of the sinner’s justification has been a sad occasion of stumbling to many.” – Charles Finney, ‘Lectures On Systematic Theology’, p. 732

4. “We shall see that perseverance in obedience to the end of life is also a condition of justification …” Ibid., p. 735-737
Finney believed that man was saved when he decided to stop sinning and live the rest of his life in righteousness.

5. Salvation “is not founded in Christ’s literally suffering the exact penalty of the Law for them, and in this sense literally purchasing their justification and eternal salvation.” – Lectures On Systematic Theology, p. 747


Galatians 1:8-9
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

I happen to believe that these quotes are taken out of the context of Finney's Sermons.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Abraham believed in the promised savior, and it was attributed to Him as righteousness. You said:



That is my point

I've just got a question. What is the difference in doctrine between a Lutheran and a Calvinist?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I've just got a question. What is the difference in doctrine between a Lutheran and a Calvinist?

Lutherans are a diverse group of people, with diverse set of beliefs. Some branches are Calvinistic, some are not, and some don't have a standardized opinion one way or the other.

 

[Enoch111]

He denied some of the foundational truths or Scripture, saying things such as Christ's Blood didn't actually save anyone...

This is incorrect. Here is his testimony regarding the blood of Christ:

THE TESTIMONY OF CHARLES GRANDISON FINNEY
"THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST CLEANSES US FROM ALL SIN"

THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST CLEANSES US FROM ALL SIN

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Lutherans are a diverse group of people, with diverse set of beliefs. Some branches are Calvinistic, some are not, and some don't have a standardized opinion one way or the other.

I just wondered because I haven't seen much difference.

 

[Enoch111]

In another thread, we began to discuss one Charles Finney, who in my book and many others it a complete heretic.

From the little I have read of Charles Finney's writings, his gospel was just as distorted as that of the Calvinists, but in the opposite direction.

 

[Enoch111]

I just wondered because I haven't seen much difference.

In order to compare the differences between Lutherans and Calvinists study their confessions of faith, such as the Westminster Confession and the Augsburg Confession. Their doctrines agree in some respects, and diverge in others. But they all held to the false doctrine of Total Depravity.

 

[justbyfaith]

Complete INDEX OF SERMONS AND LECTURES by Charles G. Finney

 

[1stCenturyLady]

In order to compare the differences between Lutherans and Calvinists study their confessions of faith, such as the Westminster Confession and the Augsburg Confession. Their doctrines agree in some respects, and diverge in others. But they all held to the false doctrine of Total Depravity.

Yes, to me it has always seemed they agree on false doctrines. That is why I wondered how they differ. I guess it is because they both come from the church age of the Reformation - Sardis - the dead church.

 

[SovereignGrace]

In another thread, we began to discuss one Charles Finney, who in my book and many others it a complete heretic. Now, I do not throw this term around lightly; He denied some of the foundational truths or Scripture, saying things such as Christ's Blood didn't actually save anyone, and that man must reach perfection on earth in order to be saved.

I was told that this was "just my doctrinal standpoint", being Reformed I MUST be crazy, but have a look at some of the many, many other people, reformed or not, that feel the same way:

The Charles Finney Cornucopia of False Doctrine, Pelagianism & Evangelical Manipulation

Charles Finney's Heretical Pelagian Theology Ravaged Evangelicalism - Heresy Language Not Too Strong | SermonAudio.com

A Wolf in Sheep's Clothing: How Charles Finney's Theology Ravaged the Evangelical Movement

The Disturbing Legacy of Charles Finney | Monergism

The Disturbing Legacy of Charles Finney | SHARPER IRON

And, if you don't feel like reading all of the above [though I would highly recommend it], here are some of Finney's many, many heretical quotes.

Charles Finney said: "Christian Perfection, as here required, is not freedom from temptation, either from our constitution or from things that are about us. The mind may be ever so sorely tried with the animal appetites, and yet not sin."

Jesus said: Matthew 5:28

Charles Finney said: [Christian Perfectionism] is perfect obedience to the law of God.

The Bible says: Ecclesiastes 7:20

Charles Finney said: Is there any reason for me to believe that I can be so completely subdued, that my soul shall burn with a steady flame, and I shall love God wholly, up to what the law requires? That it is a real duty, no one can deny. But the great query is, Is it attainable? I answer, Yes, I believe it is.

The Bible says: 1 John 1:8

This is merely the first page of one of his works, and already so many blatant contradictions to the Word of God. Charles Finney taught that man must attain his own perfection, and that Jesus didn't really die for anyone; that it is up to man to save himself. This makes him a heretic, not only to Reformed folks, but the Church in general.

He lied to get ordained as a Presbyterian, only to oppose their beliefs the rest of his life.

 

[SovereignGrace]

@Mjh29 , can I ask your purpose in starting this thread?

Obviously a Calvinist will disagree a ex-Calvinist preacher. And obviously a non-Calvinist is going to agree with that ex-Calvinist preacher.

But I'm assuming that your purpose here is something more than to re-ignite that same-tail-chasing argument with the same ~5 posters that's been raging for threads now.

So what is your purpose in starting this thread?

Many, many non-Calvinists agree Finney was a heretic.

 

[SovereignGrace]

1. “Several theologians have held that regeneration is the work of the Holy Spirit alone … but I might just as lawfully insist that it is the work of man alone.” – Charles Finney, ‘Lectures On Systematic Theology’: Abridged Edition, p. 224

2. “The doctrine of imputed righteousness, or that Christ’s obedience to the Law was accounted as our obedience, is founded on a most false and nonsensical assumption/” – Charles Finney, ‘Lectures On Systematic Theology’, Worcester: 1851, pages 320-322

3. Christ “could do no more than justify himself. It can never be imputed to us … it was naturally impossible, then, for him to obey on our behalf.” (Ibid.) This doctrine “of representing the atonement as the ground of the sinner’s justification has been a sad occasion of stumbling to many.” – Charles Finney, ‘Lectures On Systematic Theology’, p. 732

4. “We shall see that perseverance in obedience to the end of life is also a condition of justification …” Ibid., p. 735-737
Finney believed that man was saved when he decided to stop sinning and live the rest of his life in righteousness.

5. Salvation “is not founded in Christ’s literally suffering the exact penalty of the Law for them, and in this sense literally purchasing their justification and eternal salvation.” – Lectures On Systematic Theology, p. 747


Galatians 1:8-9
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

This has to be the saddest lot of quotes I have ever read.

 

[Dave L]

In order to compare the differences between Lutherans and Calvinists study their confessions of faith, such as the Westminster Confession and the Augsburg Confession. Their doctrines agree in some respects, and diverge in others. But they all held to the false doctrine of Total Depravity.

This makes you a heretic according to the Council of Ephesus in 431. They affirmed the scriptures teach Total Depravity and deny Free Will.

 

[Dave L]

I believe Finney and Billy Graham are a major source of the tares sown among the Wheat. Although many no doubt were genuinely saved in spite of them. The reason being; Jesus said whoever believes has eternal life. And a person must believe before they decide to believe or they would not decide to believe. But the Devil turned their faith away from Christ who saves focusing it instead on themselves, thinking their decision saved them.

 

[farouk]

I believe Finney and Billy Graham are a major source of the tares sown among the Wheat. Although many no doubt were genuinely saved in spite of them. The reason being; Jesus said whoever believes has eternal life. And a person must believe before they decide to believe or they would not decide to believe. But the Devil turned their faith away from Christ who saves focusing it instead on themselves, thinking their decision saved them.

Ephesians 2 - where we see God's transforming grace in the face of sin and unbelief - is for example a far better guide than 'decisionism'. which can be reduced to comparisons with being influenced by advertising or speeches by a politician.