Three Days and Three Nights

[GerhardEbersoehn]

 

[rstrats]

View attachment 16977

What is your point insofar as it applies to examples which show that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur?

 

[Cooper]

What is your point insofar as it applies to examples which show that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur?

Here are some examples from scripture of three days:

1Sa 30:11-13 They found an Egyptian in the open country and brought him to David. And they gave him bread, and he ate. They gave him water to drink, and they gave him a piece of a cake of figs and two clusters of raisins. And when he had eaten, his spirit revived, for he had not eaten bread or drunk water for three days and three nights. And David said to him, “To whom do you belong? And where are you from?” He said, “I am a young man of Egypt, servant to an Amalekite, and my master left me behind because I fell sick three days ago.

Assuming he had breakfast on Monday morning and then fell ill sometime during the day, then he went without food Monday night and all day Tuesday. When they found him three days later on Wednesday and gave him food and water, he had only been without food Monday night and all day Tuesday. They gave him food on Wednesday. He had not eaten or drunk for one and a half days.

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Gen 42.16: “And he put them all in custody for three days. 18 On the third day, Joseph said to them, Do this and you will live, for I fear God” and they are released ON that day

They were released on the third day. They were in custody for two days.
Jesus rose on the third day.

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2 Chr 10.5: “And he said to them, ‘Return to me again in three days” (NAS) with verse 12: “So Jeroboam and all the people came to Rehoboam on the third day as the king had directed, saying, ‘Return to me on the third day.”

They had only been away two days and returned on the third day. Jesus rose on the third day.

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Esther 4.16: “Go, gather together all the Jews who are in Susa, and fast for me. Do not eat or drink for three days, night or day. I and my maids will fast as you do. When this is done, I will go to the king, even though it is against the law. And if I perish, I perish.’” And then in 5.1: “On the third day Esther put on her royal robes and stood in the inner court of the palace, in front of the king’s hall."

“Esther had been away two days. She returned on the third day.” The same as Christ returned to newness of life on the third day.

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Matt 27.63: “Sir," they said, “we remember that while he was still alive that deceiver said, `After three days I will rise again.” 64 So give the order for the tomb to be made secure until the third day.

The third day was Sunday and the grave was no longer secure. The guard had gone off duty and were fast asleep.
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[Cooper]

Jesus rose ON the third day.

1 Corinthians 15:4.
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[rstrats]

Cooper,
re: "Here are some examples from scripture of three days: 1Sa 30...Gen 42...2 Chr 10....Esther 4 [and] 5...Matt 27..."

There is nothing in the 1 Samuel 30 account which precludes at least a portion of each one of three daytimes and at least a portion of each one of three night times.

Nothing in the Genesis 42 account says anything with regard to the number of daytimes and the number of night times which would be involved.

Likewise, nothing in the 2 Chronicles 10 account says anything with regard to the number of daytimes and the number of night times which would be involved.

In the Esther 4 and 5 account, "three days, night or day" is not necessarily the same thing as "three days and three nights". But even if it is, that would only be one example.

With regard to the Matthew 27 account, when the Messiah said He would rise after three days, any reference to the third day must be referring to the third day after. And this is in line with Luke 24:21.


BTW, when you wrote "assuming he had breakfast on Monday morning and... they found him three days later on Wednesday..." three days later would have been the 5th day of the week and not the 4th day.

 

[Cooper]

Cooper,
re: "Here are some examples from scripture of three days: 1Sa 30...Gen 42...2 Chr 10....Esther 4 [and] 5...Matt 27..."

There is nothing in the 1 Samuel 30 account which precludes at least a portion of each one of three daytimes and at least a portion of each one of three night times.

Nothing in the Genesis 42 account says anything with regard to the number of daytimes and the number of night times which would be involved.

Likewise, nothing in the 2 Chronicles 10 account says anything with regard to the number of daytimes and the number of night times which would be involved.

In the Esther 4 and 5 account, "three days, night or day" is not necessarily the same thing as "three days and three nights". But even if it is, that would only be one example.

With regard to the Matthew 27 account, when the Messiah said He would rise after three days, any reference to the third day must be referring to the third day after. And this is in line with Luke 24:21.


BTW, when you wrote "assuming he had breakfast on Monday morning and... they found him three days later on Wednesday..." three days later would have been the 5th day of the week and not the 4th day.

Those scriptures are correct. In the meantime, I'm putting you on my ignore list. If memory serves, part of a day counts as one Onah. An Onah is a whole day.

Found it:
“A day and a night are an Onah [‘a portion of time’] and the portion of an Onah is as the whole of it” [J.Talmud, Shabbath 9.3 and b.Talmud, Pesahim 4a]
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[rstrats]

Cooper,
re: "Those scriptures are correct."

Correct with regard to what?


re: "If memory serves, part of a day counts as one Onah. An Onah is a whole day."

That is an issue for a different topic. Perhaps you might start one.

 

[liafailrock]

I contributed before on this thread but let me just say something about the 3rd day and if he arose that it would be the start of the 4th day, yes, I agree and that does not contradict the 3rd day being the end of the day (and the start of the 4th). A simple example is the "third hour of the day" in the bible is commonly interpreted as 9am, and yet that is the third full hour. It starts the 4th hour. Likewise on an analogue clock, the first hour a the day (starting at midnight is 12-1am, the second hour is 1-2am and so forth. If I'm up at the third hour, that's 3am, and that starts the 4th. So we can see that 2:59am Is just a minute away from the third hour starting the fourth hour. 1 am means one hour passed, 2am, 2 hours, etc. The minutes are the passage of the hour proceeding to the next full hour. So when we say 2:45, we are really saying we are two hours past and 3/4 of the way to the third hour. We can call those minutes after 2am "the third hour".

Now what part of the third day did Jesus rise? He arose at the end of the 3rd day. This is due to the fact he defined the day as 12 hours (thus the night has exactly 12 hours too) and in effect stated that a day is sunrise to sunset and night sunset to sunrise. So when he stated "... so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" (the same terminology as his definition of the day) This covers 3 full days or 72 hours. Figure from that fact the timeline from death to resurrection.

 

[FHII]

Cooper,
re: "Here are some examples from scripture of three days: 1Sa 30...Gen 42...2 Chr 10....Esther 4 [and] 5...Matt 27..."

There is nothing in the 1 Samuel 30 account which precludes at least a portion of each one of three daytimes and at least a portion of each one of three night times.

Nothing in the Genesis 42 account says anything with regard to the number of daytimes and the number of night times which would be involved.

Likewise, nothing in the 2 Chronicles 10 account says anything with regard to the number of daytimes and the number of night times which would be involved.

In the Esther 4 and 5 account, "three days, night or day" is not necessarily the same thing as "three days and three nights". But even if it is, that would only be one example.

With regard to the Matthew 27 account, when the Messiah said He would rise after three days, any reference to the third day must be referring to the third day after. And this is in line with Luke 24:21.


BTW, when you wrote "assuming he had breakfast on Monday morning and... they found him three days later on Wednesday..." three days later would have been the 5th day of the week and not the 4th day.

Rstrats, We may be on the same page... But let me comment on this list:

I am really not concerned with Genesis 42 or I Chr 10. Those just say "three days" unless I missed something. Ester 4, however, needs some understanding. This was a proclaimed fast. Ester called for all Jews in a certain reguon not to eat or drink for 3 days and specifically said neither night or day. This would be a full 72 hours. Jewish tradition (and I have looked into it) says the are meticulous when it comes to fasting. They watch the sunset and sunrise to time it. So Ester supports 72 hours.

As for Samuel 30... This was a fast, but not a proclaimed fast.... They just didn't have any food. So they could've hedged an hour before or after. And probably so... They got food but it may not have been exactly 72 hours (unlike Ester). I seriously doubt it was only 36 hours though.

The thing is Jesus called the play... He would be in the heart of the earth 3vdays and 3 nights. Eater called the play... A fast 3 days and three nights. I believe both were 72 hours.

 

[FHII]

Those scriptures are correct. In the meantime, I'm putting you on my ignore list. If memory serves, part of a day counts as one Onah. An Onah is a whole day.

Do you really understand this? Do you know what the context of an Onah was here?

Its dealing with a woman's period. I looked at this long ago, and you can probably find my comments in this very thread... Basically, if memory serves me correctly, a husband cannot have sex with his wife when its that time.... And the context is he must wait until the end of the day before he can go... Poor guy!

Now I may be wrong as its been a while... So you should look into it yourself! But if I am right, I don't really think this is a valid excuse not to believe 3 days and 3 nights is less than 3 days and 3 nights.

I mean...the husband has to wait until sunrise or sunset... So the is no hedging!

 

[rstrats]

Let me change the wording which apparently may be causing confusion with regard to the the topic's issue.

There are some folks who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week. The Messiah said that He would be in the "heart of the earth" for 3 days and 3 nights (Matthew 12:40). Of those who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week, there are some who think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb. However, a 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection allows for only 2 nights to be involved with the Messiah's time in the tomb. To account for the lack of a 3rd night, there may be some of those mentioned above who try to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language. And that is the only issue of this topic, i.e., the commonality of saying that a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have occurred. I'm simply asking anyone who may fall in the above group of believers if they might provide actual examples/instances to support the belief of commonality.

 

[Cooper]

Do you really understand this? Do you know what the context of an Onah was here?

Its dealing with a woman's period. I looked at this long ago, and you can probably find my comments in this very thread... Basically, if memory serves me correctly, a husband cannot have sex with his wife when its that time.... And the context is he must wait until the end of the day before he can go... Poor guy!

Now I may be wrong as its been a while... So you should look into it yourself! But if I am right, I don't really think this is a valid excuse not to believe 3 days and 3 nights is less than 3 days and 3 nights.

I mean...the husband has to wait until sunrise or sunset... So the is no hedging!

What you say is correct, but it is not limited to the menstrual cycle. “A day and a night make an onah, and a part of an onah is as the whole.” It is a Jewish saying. (Believers Bible)

It was a maxim among the Jews, in calculating time, part of a day was to be received as the whole. There are many instances of this in both sacred and profane history. See 2Ch_10:5, 2Ch_10:12; Gen_42:17-18. Compare Est_4:16 with Est_5:1. (Albert Barnes)

The period during which Jesus would lie in the grave is expressed in round numbers, according to the Jewish way of speaking, which was to regard any part of a day, however small, included within a period of days, as a full day. (See 1Sa_30:12, 1Sa_30:13; Est_4:16; Est_5:1; Mat_27:63, Mat_27:64, etc.). (Jamison-Faucett-Brown)

Three days and three nights - we will see in the resurrection account of Christ that he was in the grave but two nights and a part of three days. See Mat_18:6. This computation, accords strictly with the Jewish mode of reckoning.
If it had “not” been, the Jews would have known it and would have charged our Saviour as being a false prophet, for they well knew he had spoken this prophecy in Matthew 27:63. However, they never made such a charge, and it is plain, therefore, that Christ accomplished the prediction.

So back to the subject you mentioned, if it begins on Friday and stops by dinnertime lets say, on Sunday, it counts as three days even though there is only one full day. As they say, "a part of an onah is as the whole."
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[rstrats]

Perhaps someone new looking in may know of examples.

 

[FHII]

What you say is correct, but it is not limited to the menstrual cycle. “A day and a night make an onah, and a part of an onah is as the whole.” It is a Jewish saying. (Believers Bible)

It was a maxim among the Jews, in calculating time, part of a day was to be received as the whole. There are many instances of this in both sacred and profane history. See 2Ch_10:5, 2Ch_10:12; Gen_42:17-18. Compare Est_4:16 with Est_5:1. (Albert Barnes)


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I'm sorry, but with all due respect I do not believe that is true.

The quote in question was part of a debate which happened 65 to 105 years after Jesus's death. Rabbis were debating if a onah was 12 or 24 hours long (truth is that its 12 hours). Furthermore it was still in the context of a woman's menstrual cycle.

Because of the fact that at the time it was speaking of menstrual cycles, I highly doubt it was a common Jewish saying and I see no evidence that the term applied to other occasions. I read your scriptural references and have already commented on them.

Furthermore, the word occurs only once in the Bible (and some say not at all) and it is speaking of sexual relations.

In short, an onah or onat has nothing to do with the resurrection.

Edit: here is a reference: Prophecy Unveiled

 

[Cooper]

I'm sorry, but with all due respect I do not believe that is true.

The quote in question was part of a debate which happened 65 to 105 years after Jesus's death. Rabbis were debating if a onah was 12 or 24 hours long (truth is that its 12 hours). Furthermore it was still in the context of a woman's menstrual cycle.

Because of the fact that at the time it was speaking of menstrual cycles, I highly doubt it was a common Jewish saying and I see no evidence that the term applied to other occasions. I read your scriptural references and have already commented on them.

Furthermore, the word occurs only once in the Bible (and some say not at all) and it is speaking of sexual relations.

In short, an onah or onat has nothing to do with the resurrection.

Edit: here is a reference: Prophecy Unveiled

You can forget the Hebrew word onah in relation to married life, it is a different topic. You even say in your response, "In short, an onah or onat has nothing to do with the resurrection." So why did you bring it up! If you had scrolled lower down the page to where is says In relation to niddah you would have read this : -

"in the context of the laws of niddah, the word onah usually refers to a day or a night. Each 24-hour day thus consists of two onot (plural for onah). The daytime onah begins at sunrise and ends at sunset. The night-time onah lasts from sunset until sunrise." CLICKY

In the New Testament, which is the most relevant, seeing as we are discussing the resurrection, the word for day is G2250 he¯mera (Luke 9:22 KJV) where we read, "The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

Turning to the Blue Letter Bible https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2250/kjv/tr/0-1/
we read, “The Eastern usage of this term differs from our western usage. Any part of a day is counted as a whole day, hence the expression “three days and three nights” does not mean literally three whole days, but at least one whole day plus part of two other days.” There we have it. We must not impose Western ideas and culture over and above ancient eastern traditions and way of life. If it was wrong, the unbelieving Jews would have had a field day, and branded Jesus a false prophet. They did not. Jesus did what he said he would do. Any arguments see Jesus.

Both the OT and the NT make the days of the crucifixion crystal clear. Why anyone would want to challenge the written Word of God is beyond my comprehension. I’m done on this topic. Peace.
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[rstrats]

[QUOTE="liafailrock,

Now what part of the third day did Jesus rise? He arose at the end of the 3rd day. This is due to the fact he defined the day as 12 hours (thus the night has exactly 12 hours too) and in effect stated that a day is sunrise to sunset and night sunset to sunrise. So when he stated "... so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" (the same terminology as his definition of the day) This covers 3 full days or 72 hours. Figure from that fact the timeline from death to resurrection.[/QUOTE]

That would be an issue for a different topic. Perhaps you might start one.

 

[FHII]

You can forget the Hebrew word onah in relation to married life, it is a different topic.

No, you can't, because that is what the word applies to! You can no more disassociate onah from sexual relations then you can with a spoon being an eating utensil! Sure, you can use it to dig dirt, but that is not its intended use.

You even say in your response, "In short, an onah or onat has nothing to do with the resurrection." So why did you bring it up!

I didn't, you did! I was responding to post #806, which you made!

It doesn't have anything to do with resurrection amd shouldn't be applied to it. If you hadn't brought it up, I wouldn't have commented on it.

"in the context of the laws of niddah, the word onah usually refers to a day or a night. Each 24-hour day thus consists of two onot (plural for onah). The daytime onah begins at sunrise and ends at sunset. The night-time onah lasts from sunset until sunrise." CLICKY

Right! More evidence that this should not be applied to the resurrection!

Turning to the Blue Letter Bible https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2250/kjv/tr/0-1/
we read, “The Eastern usage of this term differs from our western usage. Any part of a day is counted as a whole day, hence the expression “three days and three nights” does not mean literally three whole days, but at least one whole day plus part of two other days.” There we have it. We must not impose Western ideas and culture over and above ancient eastern traditions and way of life

I don't believe that either. I don't believe there is a big difference between how the west and east view or discuss a "day".

In the west, someone might say, "I'm going on a trip in three days". He probably doesn't mean 72 hours. He may say that on Monday and leave Wednesday. Is that not the same as the eastern way? Of course it is!

However, if he says, "I will be in town another 3 nights and three days", then the understanding changes. Then he's leaving sometime late Thursday. And no, Jews don't think differently. Not when such details are given that it will be nights and days.

Lastly on this point, Jews know how to reckon 3 days and 3 nights as 72 hours EXACTLY; they so so (down to the minute) while fasting.

In short, all this talk of eastern vs. western view of what a day means is just rubbish that has been told so many times that people believe it.

Both the OT and the NT make the days of the crucifixion crystal clear. Why anyone would want to challenge the written Word of God is beyond my comprehension.

Yes, I agree! No you show me where it says Jesus was crucified in Friday and resurrected on Sunday. I can (and have in this thread) shown that he was crucified on Wednesday and was out of the tomb before Saturday was over. So how crystal clear is it?

But I wish you peace seeing as how you are done.

 

[rstrats]

[QUOTE="FHII,

I can (and have in this thread) shown that he was crucified on Wednesday and was out of the tomb before Saturday was over.

[/QUOTE]


That would be an issue for a different topic. Maybe you could start one.

 

[FHII]

[QUOTE="FHII,

I can (and have in this thread) shown that he was crucified on Wednesday and was out of the tomb before Saturday was over.

That would be an issue for a different topic. Maybe you could start one.[/QUOTE]
Oh really? Is there any other reason we are discussing whether there are examples of x days and x nights including partial days?

 

[Webers_Home]

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The first chapter of Genesis defines Days on earth as when the sun is up and
Nights on earth are when the sun is down.

And according to John 11:9-10, that's how people reckoned days and nights
in the gospel years: at least Jesus thought so anyway.

_