1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Three earth ages

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by n2thelight, Jul 25, 2019.

  1. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,984
    Likes Received:
    316
    I Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

    There is a natural body, which is your flesh body, and there is also a spiritual or soul body. The two are different and when the natural body, or flesh body dies the spiritual body is "raised", or in the Greek text "egiro, awakened, become active from its death". You have two bodies, one natural body contains your spiritual body, and that spiritual body is awakened to a new life, when the flesh or natural body dies and releases your soul. Your spirit and your soul are together, for the spirit is your "self", "the intellect of your soul" which houses your spirit within you.

    Your spirit never leaves your soul, even at the death of your flesh body. Satan does not have any power over your spiritual body, but only your flesh body. Man and Satan can tare this flesh body to peaces and cause you to do all sorts of things, but no-one can damage your soul, not man, not Satan nor the angels. God is the only one that can destroy the soul and that comes at the end of the Millennium age, following judgment. However through deception Satan can cause you to sin against God, and thus be in trouble before the Almighty God. But that is why we have repentance in the name of Jesus to become right-standing before the Father again.

    It just can't be made any clearer than Paul has made it here. You have two bodies, the flesh and the spiritual bodies. When the flesh body dies, then the spiritual body is awakened and come alive within itself. It starts to live a life without the baggage of the flesh body confining it to the limits of the flesh.

    Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then [at death] shall the dust [flesh body] return to the earth as it was: and the spirit [spiritual body] shall return [instantly] to God [Father] Who gave it."

    Ecclesiastes 9:5 "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."

    This is written by Solomon to the flesh man that walks under the sun, and when the life of the flesh is over, it has no more knowledge or thought than a stick or rock. It is useless, but the soul that is within it is gone and with the Father.

    I Corinthians 15:45 "And so it is written, "The first man Adam was made a living soul;" the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."

    The word "Adam" means "ruddy complected", where blood is shown in the face. When God created Adam from the dust of the earth, he placed a living soul with his body. The last Adam was brought about through the generations of births through the natural process, and we read in Luke 3:23-38 the blood line or lineage of Jesus all the way back to Adam the first created. It is through the last Adam, or Jesus Christ that "quickening" or "life giving" spirit enters into man's souls.

    I Corinthians 15:46 "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural: and afterward that which is spiritual."

    Paul is asking, Why was it all this way? Why is it required that before one can have spiritual eternal life, that there must be a flesh body or natural life first? Why do we have to be born in the flesh first before we can be born of the spirit?

    I Corinthians 15:47 "The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven."

    Remember what God said to the angels in Genesis 1:26; "And God said, "Let us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air..."

    Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them."

    In other words, Let us make ourselves in our own image on earth. So each soul must pass through that natural or flesh body made of the dust of the earth, and God Himself would also pass through this flesh age just as each soul was required to do. So God Himself through His creation, brought about the conception of Jesus Christ, and He gave instructions that Jesus name should be called "Immanuel", which means "God with us".

    So we see that each soul was to pass through this earth age of the flesh, in a flesh body, and God Himself came through that same natural form also.

    John 1:14 "And the Word [Jesus Christ, Immanuel] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

    Jesus Christ came to pay the price that none of His created souls could do in the flesh. Jesus was perfect in His flesh life, and He set the path for us to follow.

    I Corinthians 15:48 "As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly."

    When you build your life around the things of the flesh and live only for the pleasures of life, then that is when your flesh nature controls your being. However when you are living in the Spirit, then the inner man forces the flesh or your natural man to get itself under control. It is a matter of which part of you controls your being, the one that is in tune with God, or your selfish nature.

    I Corinthians 15:49 "And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly."

    Every soul that has ever existed will pass through the life of the flesh or natural body, However, there are many souls that refuse to be born of woman through the birthing process, and they are called the "Nethilim", or "fallen angels". In Genesis 6:6, they are called the "sons of God", and they are the same angels Jude wrote about in Jude 6.

    Jude 6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

    They came to earth and took the daughters of flesh man to wed, without being born from an embryo and taking on human form. So Paul is telling us that everyone is going to be raised into that spiritual body for judgment day. Judgment day for the unjust is at the end of the Millennium age. All souls shall rise into the heavenly spiritual body, but the flesh body has nothing to do with the condition of the soul of that body. We are not talking about souls but we are talking about bodies.

    1corin15
     
  2. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,320
    Likes Received:
    495
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    No, the adoption is not what Paul was speaking of in Romans 8:23. The creation today is still not yet released from the bondage of corruption it is still in today, nor are our bodies released from corruption yet today either.
     
  3. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,320
    Likes Received:
    495
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    More Bible proof of a previous world before Adam that was destroyed...


    In the Jeremiah 4 chapter, God through His prophet Jeremiah had been warning the kingdom of Judah at Jerusalem. God was going to send a destruction upon His people because of their rebellion against Him, their having turned to doing evil. So He first warned them to turn from wickedness and mocked them.

    In the following, He is reminding them of something He did long ago, to serve as an example of His wrath:

    Jer 4:22-28
    22 For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

    23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.


    This "without form, and void" (tohuw va bohuw in the Hebrew) is the very same passage in Genesis 1:2. The Hebrew for "without form, and void" does not literally mean a vacuum nothingness. It means a worthless thing, an indistinguishable ruin. It is like something that was once good, (like His people in Jerusalem when they were following Him), and then it turned bad (like His people in Jerusalem at this time who had turned to wickedness). That is the usage of the Hebrew tohuw word in most Old Testament cases, something once good having gone into a bad condition.



    24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.


    This shows God is not speaking of an earth that had not been created yet. He is pointing to the earth in a ruined condition. He is actually pointing back to the condition of the earth at Genesis 1:2 after He had ended the old world before Adam and Eve. That old world was when Satan first rebelled against Him.


    25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.


    Can't confuse this event with the time of Noah, because as God's Word says, there were 8 souls on the ark still. Nor did the hills and mountains tremble during the time of Noah's flood.


    26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by His fierce anger.

    Thinking that the mere mention of cities there must mean the flood of Noah's day denies the old world when Satan followed God. It would mean no prior time when Satan first rebelled. Yet there exists OT Scripture pointing to the existence of nations during the time of Satan's original fall.



    27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

    28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
    KJV


    The "whole land shall be desolate", and "For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black", is the event Apostle Paul was pointing to in Romans 8 about the creation having been placed into bondage of corruption by our Heavenly Father, and along with us, seeks a release from that bondage.

    The idea of the "heavens above be black" is about storm clouds above the earth. Our violent weather of this present world is caused by holes in the atmosphere around the earth. The sun heats up the ground, causing hot air on ground level to rise and mix with the cold air up in the atmosphere above the earth. The result is turbulence, and thus violent tempests, tornadoes, etc. Water evaporates on the up going up into the sky and water collects, creating dark clouds full of water, which accompanies those storms.

    And it's for this reason why today's heavens above the earth are black, because of how God placed His original 'perfect' creation of Gen.1:1 into bondage of corruption because of Satan's rebellion.
     
    n2thelight likes this.
  4. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,915
    Likes Received:
    1,887
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    It is clearly what Paul was speaking about in that verse:

    Rom 8:23, And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
     
  5. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,915
    Likes Received:
    1,887
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    My only point was that we did not exist in spiritual bodies millions of years ago, before we got our current physical bodies. It did not require a long teaching on the whole of the passage, in response; I find that the teaching is irrelevant to what I was even saying.

    The scripture teaches that the physical body comes first; and therefore we could not have pre-existed in spiritual bodies.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
  6. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,307
    Likes Received:
    2,824
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    That statement is in contradiction with the promise of Christ to come "quickly", and calls anyone who would witness that He has "come in" to them and now lives in them, liars.

    Against the misguided beliefs of most of Christendom, the fact is, if Jesus has [gone] to the Father as He said, and also [come] again to those who open the door when He knocks...He has indeed [returned] already.

    Just as the apostle John stated that "every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God", so too is it with those who do not confess that Jesus has come in the Spirit.
     
  7. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,984
    Likes Received:
    316
    No problem, will just leave you with this
    Jeremiah
    Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
     
  8. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,915
    Likes Received:
    1,887
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Because God is outside of time (Isaiah 57:15); knowing the end from the beginning: and therefore He knew Jeremiah before He was even born; what his life would be.
     
  9. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,320
    Likes Received:
    495
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    It's no use, about the only ones responding here on this thread are pretty much deceived into the Preterist 'kingdom now' trap from men's doctrines that are behind today's one-world government movement.
     
    n2thelight likes this.
  10. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,984
    Likes Received:
    316
    I beg to differ ,and not limiting Him in anyway ,I don't think He know's who will choose Him,else what's the point ?

    So you saying He knew satan then known as lucifer would turn against Him?Defies logic,He God had to come up with a plan because of that rebellion....
     
  11. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,915
    Likes Received:
    1,887
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Yes.

    Sometimes the things of scripture do that.

    God is outside of time (Isaiah 57:15), so He does indeed know who will choose Him, from that perspective.
     
  12. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,984
    Likes Received:
    316
    That's why I don't like to seem as if I'm arguing ,as all won't get it.
     
  13. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,915
    Likes Received:
    1,887
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I just want to make it plain right now that Mormonism is a cult.
     
  14. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,984
    Likes Received:
    316
    Where did that come from?
     
    Jane_Doe22 likes this.
  15. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,984
    Likes Received:
    316
    Why did God hate Esau,He made someone knowing He would hate them?
     
  16. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,984
    Likes Received:
    316
    Like I said it's all good,you may one day get to where I am,however I'm not going back to where you are.

    However for the sake of other's who may be reading,let's go here

    Romans 9:11 "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him That calleth;"

    Then when the twins, Jacob and Esau were still in their mother's womb, neither having had the chance of doing either good or evil, God called one of those unborn babies to service. This deals with the election according to the purpose of God in His Will. The reason was to accomplish the writings of these Scriptures. It wasn't an accident that Jacob was loved and Esau was hated, nor was it an accident that you saw the light and repented. God has His hand on all creation and all of His children. God intercedes in the lives of His children, and there are no accidents when it comes to the actions of God.

    Romans 9:12 "It was said unto her, "The elder shall serve the younger."

    This statement is not according to custom. In Genesis 25:23; "And the Lord said unto her, "Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other; and the elder shall serve the younger."

    The younger was to serve the older, and many so called teachers tell how Jacob plotted to get the blessing, they just don't understand that it was God's order from before they were ever born that Jacob would be the superior.

    Romans 9:13 "As it is written "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

    It was written by the Prophet Malachi in Malachi 1:2, 3; "I have loved you, saith the Lord Yet ye say, `Wherein hast Thou loved us?' Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob," "And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains [nations] and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness."

    While Esau was a small embryo in his mother Rebecca's womb, God hated Esau. If it sounds a little bit unfair, then you missed the point of the entire eighth chapter where God stipulated where He foreknew those that overcame at Satan's rebellion in the first earth age. Don't you think that God is judge enough to know who to hate and who to love.

    Esau had some very bad habits and one of those actions was to show disrespect for the heritage that God had given him. First of all Esau married out of His race of people, which God forbid. This made it impossible for Christ to be born through Esau because of the mixture and corruption of Esau's bloodline. Secondly Esau placed the value of the Abrahamic covenant at one bowl of red mush, what an insult. Esau put no value on the heritage of God, or any part of God's Word and promises. Esau did not wish to be an heir of our Heavenly Father.

    If Esau was that way in this earth age, he was probably far worse in the age that was. God doesn't hate someone without a cause.
     
  17. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,984
    Likes Received:
    316
    Now let's go here,and then for you I'll leave it alone

    Job 38:1 "Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,"



    Remember that Elijah was taken up in a whirlwind, and Ezekiel witnessed God coming down in a whirlwind. This "whirlwind" is the vehicle that God uses to transport his throne when He has a job to do here on earth. Elihu told us that when a tempest of a storm comes, that God spoke from it.



    Job 38:2 "Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?"



    God's first answer was in the form of a question. Remember from verse three of chapter thirty six, Elihu said, "I will fetch my knowledge from afar, and I will ascribe righteousness to the Maker. For truly my words shall not be false: He that is perfect in knowledge is with thee." Elihu was presenting himself as a spokesman for God, and I feel that God was even personally addressing Elihu here. God is asking Job; who is this man who is standing before you, claiming to have all knowledge, and knowing Me?


    This should be a warning to us today that there will be many that present themselves to be speaking for God, and all the time their words are empty. We had better be careful what man or woman we study under. If they are speaking on behalf of God and His Word, there had better be documentation direct from the Word of God. Listening to teachers like Elihu is the sure way to be led astray.


    So God's first answer to Job is; What are you listening to these men for? It is addressed to Job but aimed at Elihu, as well as the other three.



    Job 38:3 "Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou Me."


    This is God's advise to Job. Stand up like a man, for I am going to tell you a few things, and I will demand an answer of you. In these early days men wore long robes, and when they were about to do some serious work and walking, they drew the back side of their robe between and through their legs, and tied it to their belt in front. This is to "gird up now thy loins like a man", for there is going to be some serious discussion and God wanted Job alert.



    Job 38:4 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding."



    God is asking Job, but directing the question to Elihu as well as Job; where were you when I laid the foundation of this earth age. God is letting Elihu know that nothing that he has said came from Me, so don't put words in My mouth.



    Job 38:5 "Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?"


    Who has determined the measurement of the sun, moon, and earth, and placed the line or signs of the constellations around the earth?



    Job 38:6 "Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;"



    God is asking, what holds this earth exactly where it is, do you know Job? do you know Elihu? Stop and think for a moment of all the laws of God, those dealing with gravity, with magnetism, with heat and pressures and all the other things that go to make up the atmosphere of the earth that we live on, and rely on for our life, as we live here in these flesh bodies. This sets our Heavenly Father in a class all by Himself. Man is nothing compared to the Creator.



    Job 38:7 "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for Joy?"



    Who were these "sons of God" [the stars that sang], and when did these sons of God sing for Joy? We are talking about the angels here, that sang before the establishment of this earth age of the flesh. All souls were there and Satan also was there with all of them. Some how the people of this earth age are trying to forget Satan and the role that he played at the rebellion in that first earth age. We see that Satan was not in the conversation with Job and his friends at this time. They all have overlooked the overall plan of God. However had Job known the plan of God, where would he have been then, when the foundations of this earth were laid and the angels were rejoicing? Of course He would have been there with the rest of them, where we all were. You see, we the elect of God were chosen before the foundations of this earth were laid, and so was Job.


    Ephesians 1:4 "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world [age], that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:"


    Ephesians 1:5 "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children of Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,"

    It wasn't because He already knew,it was becuse the Elect earned it

    Anyway believe as you will!!!
     
  18. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,915
    Likes Received:
    1,887
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    @n2thelight,

    Are you a Mormon?
    .
    .
    .
    In all the times I have read the book of Job, I have never gotten the impression that Elihu was wrong in the things that he said to Job.

    As a matter of fact, God said to Job near the end of the book, that Job had spoken right, but that his three friends had spoken wrongly.

    Elihu was not among Job's three friends. He was the only one among the four that spoke to Job that even spoke what God wanted him to speak.

    Elihu claimed rightly that he had the Holy Spirit of God and that the words that he would speak to Job would be upright.

    How this will affect your theology I don't know.

    Evidently there is something in what Elihu said that refutes your pov?

    But the book of Job stands as the word of the Lord; and what Elihu spoke stands as being part of it.
     
  19. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,265
    Likes Received:
    1,520
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Very unlikely.
    The ideas @n2thelight is discussing here don't really relate to beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
     
  20. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,984
    Likes Received:
    316
    Yes ,he did tell him(Job)everything right ,up until v24 .

    Job 37:24 "Men do therefore fear Him: He respecteth not any that are wise of heart."


    Elihu is telling Job that he is conceded and unrighteous and God doesn't respect those that are. Job's only defense through these entire thirty seven chapters was that he was a righteous man, and Elihus calling Job a liar. You talk about a man that is full of conceit, that had to be Elihu himself. In the end, Elihu let his own ignorance of Job and God be known..

    As for your question if I'm a mormon....No!!!!

    However the of that post was for you to focus on v7 as you can clearly see we were with Him when He created this earth.It wasn't void and without form when He created it ,as we see from the below

    Isaiah 45:18 "for thus saith the Lord That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the Lord; and there is none else."

    Before we get into this verse, let's understand the Hebrew word used for "vain". In the Hebrew text the word is "tohu", and this is the same word as God gave in Genesis 1:2.

    Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

    The word "tohu" means void and without form. God is saying that He did not create the earth void and without form, but it became that way. "And the earth was" is also a phrase that we must take back to the Hebrew text, for the word "was" in the Hebrew text should read "became". In the Strong's Hebrew Dictionary, the number is 1961. "Hayah, haw-yaw', a prime root, to become, or come to pass, to cause to happen." The earth was not created "tohu" or without form and void, but became that way.

    In Genesis 1:1; "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." This is a flat statement, and the purpose of His creation is given to us here in Isaiah 45:18; "He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He fored it to be inhabited:" He "established" it to give it order, and the purpose for establishing it was that it would be "inhabited." It was in that established place that the dinosaurs, and all the other creatures that are extinct today, roamed.

    We can go to the poles of this earth and find tropical plants, and sharp frozen animals with butter-cups still in their mouths. The dogs that pulled the sleds can still eat the meat from those thousands of years old creatures. The earth was created from pole to pole with no ice and no desolation, but an event happened to cause the earth to become that way. God is telling you here that He is the Lord, and He created the earth perfect. So we see from this verse that something happened between Genesis 1:1, and Genesis 1:2, that the earth that was created perfect and with habitation, became a complete waste and empty of life. Even to the point of the stars and sun not existing for a certain period of time.

    Some Bible preachers would have you believe that the earth is only six thousand years old, However, that age is related only to the family of Adam, the race of "ruddy" complected or white individuals that show blood in their face. That is what the word "Adam" means in the Hebrew. We know from simple scientific fact and physical evidence that this earth is millions of years old, and only God knows the actual time. Then God created all souls and placed them upon the earth, and there was a rebellion by one of those souls, that we call Satan, and one third of all the other souls followed that soul, Satan.

    Satan was the one soul that was created for a purpose, and thus was created above all the rest. Ezekiel 28:12 "Son of man [Ezekiel], take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus [Satan],and say unto him, `Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty."

    This is his purpose: Ezekiel 28:14 "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire."

    Satan was created to care for the Altar of God and be before the throne of God.

    Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.".

    It was after the iniquity came to Satan that the destruction came to this earth. When Satan's pride overtook him, and he thought himself better then God, one third of the angels or souls follow him in the rebellion. This is what is referred to in Revelation 12:1-4. for the same order of events that happened at the end of the first earth will also happen at the end of this second earth age of the flesh. One third of the stars or Angels follow the great red dragon, and his tail drew the third part of those stars or souls of heaven.

    So when this great fall of Satan came and one third of his created souls rebelled, God could either destroy this earth age, or he could destroy His children. Even in the flesh, destroying your children is pretty heavy. God chose to destroy that earth age, and all life forms that were on it, and to start over with with His plan. No one can deny the fact that this first earth existed, with the bones and tracks laid out even in stone. God even talked about the dinosaurs in Job.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
Loading...