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Through Christ not works.

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Behold, Jul 17, 2020.

  1. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Salvation is remarkable.

    Christians understand the Cross as The Love of God poured out as The Blood of Jesus on the Cross, and Atheists, generally consider the Cross as anything but the Love Of God.

    Atheists, that ive talked to, over much time... in general, can't really wrap their head around the idea of God giving His Life for all of us, as a Gift of Love.
    And of course they are not able to believe that God became One of us, when in fact, they don't even believe that God exists.... so they say.

    So.. if they can't seem to relate at all to the idea of "laying down your life for a friend" as perfect Love, then certainly they are going to have huge issues with "Love your enemies ", = Jesus laying down His LIFE for those who hated Him when He was on the earth, and also for those who have hated Him ever since He ascended back to His original home with the Father of Creation and Grace..

    But im not here to talk about Atheists, im here to talk about the reason that works and obedience before you are saved, which can't save you, also can keep you saved after you are Born Again.
    The Bumper Sticker reads like this..... "What Saved You, is what Saved You, accept no substitues", and that does not change the day after He saved you, nor does it change the last minute before you draw your last breath in your body, just before you meet your Savior.

    "What Saved You, is what Saved You.....accept no substitutes.".

    And the "What" is Jesus The Lord. This is why we call Him the Savior.

    Kinda makes sense, doesn't it.

    Now let me give that to you again....... all your good works, and all your obedience, and all your lifetime of 10 Commandment keeping that you can do- practice- and perfect, BEFORE YOU ARE SAVED (Born Again), cannot save you, and doing all this also can't keep you saved after you are born again.

    So what does this really mean? .
    Are you born again? Then listen Saint.. it means that you can live as holy a life as you could possibly live, every second of your life, never break the 10 commandments...and do all of this until you are 109 yrs old, and you will die and go straight to hell like a bullet if you die and are not Saved.
    Jesus said.."you must be Born Again".

    So, if the best you can do, is going to end you up in Hell if you are not born again.... then how can these same deeds, works, obedience, take your salvation away from you, once your are born again, if you don't do all the works, obedience, abiding, enduring.. and so forth that could not save you to begin with?

    A.) ? = They Can't.

    Were you ever taught by a doctrinally sound teacher of the Word of God, or by the Holy Spirit Himself when you were alone with Him, that "what can't save you, also can't cause you to lose your salvation".
    And if neither of those have shown you this reality regarding Eternal Salvation, does your common sense not show it to you?

    Sure it does.

    Ask yourself......"if what i do, if all my good works, done perfectly, can't save me,.......... then how can these same works, affect my Eternal Salvation, once Jesus saves me, if i don't do what could not save me to begin with?

    A.) ? What saved you, saved you, and what can't has no effect on it.....EVER.......>NOT EVER.

    So, why can't being good, living holy, doing good deeds, and being a wonderful human being, get you into heaven, instead of directly into Hell after you die, if you are not SAVED?

    Why?

    Why can't your works, and enduring, and tithing, and church going, and holy living, and obedience to the 10 commandments, keep you out of HELL< after you die, if you are not Saved?
    Its because none of that can give you what you have to have, before God will accept you.
    Its because none of that can give you what you have to have, before God will accept you.
    Its because no works you do, no obedience you can perform, no "living a good life", "being a good person", "helping orphans", "cleaning the church", , can give you what God requires that you MUST have before He will accept you and keep you.

    = That's why.

    Thats why a good life, a clean life, being a good person, being a wonderful human being, who does not drink, smoke, cuss, watch porn, or hate..... is just as hell bound as a God hating Christ Rejecting child molester.
    Its because nothing you can do by SELF EFFORT, not ever, not EVER, will make you acceptable to God...........not ever.

    Does this mean you should not live a holy life, a good life, a clean life? No. What it means is that you come to understand some Truth about Salvation, (if you've not yet).... so that you are not living your entire Christian life sort of confused and nervous regarding truly understanding WHO SAVES ANYONE who was ever saved..

    Lets understand perfectly........ that only what God accepts to save you, is what saves you and keeps your saved.
    God does not accept what an unbeliever believes and some fake christians say and teach saves them, which is....>"i'll do good, and some bad, and at the end God will judge all my works, and if my acts of good are a higher percentage then my bad, then JACKPOT !!< im in GLORY singing with the Angels."........Ummmm, no, you are in Hell once you die, and were going there the whole time you were breathing, thinking you were ok.

    Ok, lets nail it down. Lets get it RIGHT.. and keep it there, forever.

    You , me, us, we are born with a problem, that only God can solve. And this is why He came down here, reader.... The problem is that nothing we can do can make us RIGHTEOUS. Nothing..... And God will not have you, me, or us, in His Family, unless we are RIGHTEOUS..... As Righteous as HE IS. So, out the window and down the river just went all your lifetime of trying to be good so that God will have you. = He will NOT. As your good life is not RIGHTEOUS...it has no RIGHTEOUSNESS in it.
    And what is Righteousness, dear Reader? Its God's holiness.

    To be Righteous, (holy), is to be "made Righteous" by the blood of Jesus.

    So, can all your good deeds make you Righteous? If so then don't worry about the Cross, and just keep on going to church while you are thinking you are accepted by God , when in fact you are not.

    See it?

    Now lets get REAL.
    Jesus, the Bread of Heaven, the Prince of Glory, the Living Word, the Light of Life, the Sinless Son of God, Virgin Born, came down here to give you His Righteousness on a Cross so that God would have you as His OWN.
    Understand?
    And if that Righteousness has been given to you, then you are SAVED and will remain just as saved as God's Blood has made you HOLY<>Righteous. And this only happens because you have "believed on the Lord Jesus", and from your heart came this Faith that God accepted to SAVE YOU, and out of your mouth came the confession of your faith . And if you did this, then God has taken the Righteouness of Christ and He has given it to you, or as the word says.....He has "Made it unto you"...you are MADE RIGHTEOUS......and that is the only reason He will have you or keep you.

    NO OTHER REASON, will He take you, accept you, or keep you.
    So, can your works and lifestyle and obedience and confessing sin, do this for you?
    NO < NO < NO< NEVER !!

    So, again........... why are you saved?
    Is is because of you? Did you do it? Can you do it ??? So then, if you didn't save yourself, and can't, then can you keep yourself saved?
    NO.
    Only God can save you, and only God can Keep you saved, because of HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS that He has given to you, that He now Accepts, to accept you.

    "By faith you are saved and that not of yourself", "The Gift of Righteousness" "Justification by Faith".

    And if you see this....if you get this, if you have this understanding, then you understand the Grace of God, and if you dont, and you are saved or not, you will think and believe that your works and your obedience, save you, or keep you saved, and in both cases that is a Self Deception. Its an Untruth, and a complete impossibility. It is in fact Satan's Lie.

    God Himself had to give you His very Righteousness to take you, to Birth you, to have you, and to keep you.
    Jesus is your only Righteousness, and if you have Him, if you are born again, then God has you.
    So, Where are your works and your obedience? They are never ever accepted by God, to accept you. Not ever.
    And if you can see this, if you can grab this, and grasp it, then you have understood the Blood Atonement and the Redemption that is only found where it is Given.

    >The Cross".

    "It is NOT by works of righteousness (that we do) but by and according to God's Mercy, = He saved us".
    God's "mercy" is Jesus on The Cross dying for your sin, so that by this sacrifice, God is able to give you in place of your Sin, Christ's Righteousness. And that is WHY and the only WAY, that God will have you and keep you.

    What are your works and your obedience compared to the Holy Blood of Jesus The Christ?

    Do you see this???

    "Jesus is the Way". And His Righteousness given to you, as He took your sin and became your Sin Bearer on the Cross, = is the only means that God supplied Himself to accept you, and there is no other way to be accepted by God.

    "God who began your salvation in you, will himself be faithful to complete it". And He did all this on the Cross, and gives it to you (by Faith) as the "gift of Righteousness".

    So, where are your works and 10 commandment keeping in all that?
    They are not found in God's Righteousness. Not ever.
    Salvation, is God's Righteousness, (Christ on the Cross), given to you as the "Gift of Righteousness".
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2020
  2. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    nar·cis·sism
    /ˈnärsəˌsizəm/


    noun
    noun: narcissism
    1. excessive interest in or admiration of oneself and one's physical appearance.
      h
      Similar:
      vanity
    self-love
    self-admiration
    self-adulation
    self-absorption
    self-obsession
    conceit
    self-conceit
    self-centredness
    self-regard
    egotism
    egoism
    egocentricity
    egomania
    h
    Opposite:
    modesty
    diffidence
    • Psychology
      selfishness, involving a sense of entitlement, a lack of empathy, and a need for admiration, as characterizing a personality type.
    • Psychoanalysis
      self-centeredness arising from failure to distinguish the self from external objects, either in very young babies or as a feature of mental disorder.
     
    Hidden In Him and faithfulness like this.
  3. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    You mean can't?

    That depends on the reason for his holiness. If he is made holy because of faith alone in Jesus Christ, then he enters in on the basis of that faith.

    Only faith in Jesus can make us righteous. But once we are righteous, we will live that righteousness out practically (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).

    And this righteousness is practical in nature (1 John 3:7, Matthew 5:19, Matthew 5:6).

    Transparency before the Lord is something that keeps us in relationship with Him.

    They don't bring you acceptance before the Lord....but they will result in reward at your bema seat judgment (1 Corinthians 3:11-15).
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2020
  4. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Also, if someone is truly born again, they will bear the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) as the result of being regenerated and renewed. And this love is not in word or in tongue only, but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18). It is also the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within you (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

    We do not maintain our salvation by bearing this fruit; but our salvation will maintain this fruit in our lives.

    So if someone has works that appear to be out of love but is not saved, those works will not save him.

    If he has works of genuine love and is saved, the works still don't save him; for they stem out of a salvation that is already given.
     
  5. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Ad hominem . . . so much easier than a real response!
     
  6. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I know nothing that keeps me in relationship with God outside of the reconciliation purchased by Jesus, having trusted in Him and being reborn. I am brought to Him in Jesus Christ, and kept in that same way. It's only in Jesus, and His obedience. That's what gives me relationship with God. Not that I'm doing something of which I can glory, "keeping short accounts with God" is another way I've heard it.

    Transparency with God is the right way to live, certainly! Of course, we Are transparent to Him anyway. But realizing it all the time, well, here's a thing.

    When we realize God sees me Right Now, when Right Now is not really I time I want to be seen, then how is it that this would not cause us to turn away? To run and hide? We hide because we think we don't have the right to be with Him, or that He is going to now hurt us. But what when we realize that nothing can separate us from God anymore, because that's the way God made it? Because He's completely absolved us from all guilt, by rebirthing us a new person who never sinned, and cannot sin?

    So we are innocent, and remain so, that person who is born of God.

    So in our innocence we are free to be with God, to involve Him in EVERY aspect of our lives, even the more unsavory, trusting Him as not only the Creater Who understands us through and through, also trusting Him as our Father who loves us, delights in us, our Savior, Who rescued us, and cleanses us. Who understands our weaknesses and infirmities.

    And loves us with perfect love!

    Much love!
     
  7. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    He cleanses us from all sin only when we are transparent before Him (1 John 1:7).
     
  8. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    So then otherwise you are under condemnation?
     
  9. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Good question.

    I would say that He cleanses us from all sin (sanctification) when we are transparent...but He covers over our sins (justification) when we simply place our faith in the finished work of the Cross.
     
  10. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    Titus 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
     
  11. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Of course, works do not save a man (Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 11:5-6).
     
  12. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    No but grace does, sanctified and drakes by grace in baptism unto good works accomplish in grace
    Faith working thru love
    Charity covers a multitude of sins
     
  13. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    "faith working through love" does not save a man either.

    It is simply the faith that saves (Galatians 3:14); by which we obtain the Holy Ghost; and the love of the Lord through the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5). This love shed abroad in our hearts is a part of the salvation that is given; but does not save us in any wise. Only faith in Jesus does that.
     
  14. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    Acts 8 Philip preached Jesus!

    how does the eunuch know about baptism? and why does he so earnestly desire it! Mk 16:16
     
  15. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Baptism, in those days, was commonly used as a rite to initiate people into Judaism.

    I think that the Eunuch probably applied this to the preaching that was given to him.

    But it may also be that Philip preached to him that he needed to be baptized, as this was a part of what Jesus said to do for new converts in Matthew 28:19.
     
  16. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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  17. Irwin Fletcher

    Irwin Fletcher Active Member

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    I think this discussion reminds me of the difference between religion compared to faith. James talked about this.

    If you claim to be religious but don’t control your tongue, you are fooling yourself, and your religion is worthless. Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.

    James 1:26-27 (NLT)

    We definitely should be cognizant of our leanings towards works based theology/practice.
    Don’t Become Inoculated by the Empty Calories of Religion
     
  18. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.
     
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  19. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I may be nothing and yet still be saved. Paul said that he was nothing in 2 Corinthians 12:11.
     
  20. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    Beloved, let us love one another, because love is of God; everyone who loves is begotten by God and knows God.

    Whoever is without love does not know God, for God is love
    .
     
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