Tips for recognizing the denial of the power

[Prentis]

[sup]5[/sup] having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
It is a fearful thing to be claiming the name of God, and yet when it comes time to have faith in his power, to take him at his word, to say 'Impossible!' It is far more subtle than we often think... Here's a few examples:

Implying Jesus was not tempted as we are!

Maintaining that we are at a disadvantage compared to Jesus (ie we CANNOT do all things through Christ who strengthens us)!

Stating that the sinful nature is more powerful than the new nature in Christ!

Denying the power of the cross to put to death the old man (and by the same denying the power of new life and ressurection which follows the cross)!

 

[rockytopva]

[sup]5[/sup] having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
It is a fearful thing to be claiming the name of God, and yet when it comes time to have faith in his power, to take him at his word, to say 'Impossible!' It is far more subtle than we often think... Here's a few examples:

Implying Jesus was not tempted as we are!

Maintaining that we are at a disadvantage compared to Jesus (ie we CANNOT do all things through Christ who strengthens us)!

Stating that the sinful nature is more powerful than the new nature in Christ!

Denying the power of the cross to put to death the old man (and by the same denying the power of new life and ressurection which follows the cross)!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RiCH75rfg0

 

[Jake]

Maintaining that we are at a disadvantage compared to Jesus (ie we CANNOT do all things through Christ who strengthens us)!

Jesus said, "it is finished", which gives us even a greater advantage! His work on the cross has enabled us to pick up our cross daily and carry it, in His power! We can be empowered to walk as He walked, God has told us, in the written word, He will keep us from stumbling and He has told us He will give us a way out of our temptations!

Good word Prentis!

 

[Prentis]

Jesus said, "it is finished", which gives us even a greater advantage! His work on the cross has enabled us to pick up our cross daily and carry it, in His power! We can be empowered to walk as He walked, God has told us, in the written word, He will keep us from stumbling and He has told us He will give us a way out of our temptations!

Good word Prentis!

The not-so-often quoted verse: 'You will do greater things than I do'.

Raising the dead? Impossible! With God, possible.

People misunderstand these kind of things because they do not understand the nature of it. People sometimes call this kind of faith pride (see David and his brothers, when he rose against Goliath). To see this, it is necessary to understand it is not us, but the power of God in us. We move in faith and obedience, and thus we do the works of God, but God is still the one truly doing it, we simply become partners or partakers of it. We become the 'pipe' through which the power of God flows to arrive on earth. This is what constitutes a holy man. He is in no way special in and of himself, but he is obedient and thus it pleases his master to use him and impart his life to him.

 

[Prentis]

Another trend I've noticed... A human trend that is, and not a good one! Is this:

People will say 'you can't speak of what you haven't experienced', which is true, but being applied wholly wrong. More than once, when I have spoken of overcoming fully (and I have seen it when others speak too), people who are either new to the idea, or dislike it, will try to discredit it by saying that either because one is not walking in it or because he never has, he cannot somehow say it is possible, even would it be, how dare he speak of what he does not know!

But this reveals itself to often be simply an excuse to put aside a thought we do not like (because it bids us mature, and run, willfully choosing to)

I liken this to saying 'Joshua, Caleb, have you two ever taken a land like Canaan', and they reply 'No', and the unbelieving reply 'Then how dare you be so proud and tell us it is possible with God!' When put in this light, the attitude becomes quite humorous. What this reveals though is unbelief in the power of God, and his ability to rescue us.

Wiser reasoning would say 'He has saved us from Egypt, why could he not give us this land if it would please him?'

 

[Prentis]

The brother of David and the reaction of unbelief

[sup]22[/sup] And David left his supplies in the hand of the supply keeper, ran to the army, and came and greeted his brothers. [sup]23[/sup] Then as he talked with them, there was the champion, the Philistine of Gath, Goliath by name, coming up from the armies of the Philistines; and he spoke according to the same words. So David heard them. [sup]24[/sup] And all the men of Israel, when they saw the man, fled from him and were dreadfully afraid. [sup]25[/sup] So the men of Israel said, “Have you seen this man who has come up? Surely he has come up to defy Israel; and it shall be that the man who kills him the king will enrich with great riches, will give him his daughter, and give his father’s house exemption from taxes in Israel.”
[sup]26[/sup] Then David spoke to the men who stood by him, saying, “What shall be done for the man who kills this Philistine and takes away the reproach from Israel? For who is this uncircumcised Philistine, that he should defy the armies of the living God?”
[sup]27[/sup] And the people answered him in this manner, saying, “So shall it be done for the man who kills him.”
[sup]28[/sup] Now Eliab his oldest brother heard when he spoke to the men; and Eliab’s anger was aroused against David, and he said, “Why did you come down here? And with whom have you left those few sheep in the wilderness? I know your pride and the insolence of your heart, for you have come down to see the battle.”

Pride is often obvious to all, and makes the man who has it a shame to those who are his friends or family. But the thing which can be mistaken with pride is zeal and faith towards the Lord, that he is mighty to overcome through us, and we through him.

 

[jiggyfly]

The not-so-often quoted verse: 'You will do greater things than I do'.

Raising the dead? Impossible! With God, possible.

People misunderstand these kind of things because they do not understand the nature of it. People sometimes call this kind of faith pride (see David and his brothers, when he rose against Goliath). To see this, it is necessary to understand it is not us, but the power of God in us. We move in faith and obedience, and thus we do the works of God, but God is still the one truly doing it, we simply become partners or partakers of it. We become the 'pipe' through which the power of God flows to arrive on earth. This is what constitutes a holy man. He is in no way special in and of himself, but he is obedient and thus it pleases his master to use him and impart his life to him.

On this I agree with you Prentise, but would refer to ourselves as witnesses rather than partners when it comes to supernatural powers and miracles.

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Acts 1:8

11 And as the lame man which was healed held Peter and John, all the people ran together unto them in the porch that is called Solomon's, greatly wondering.12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
Acts 3:11&12 (KJV)

20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.
Acts 4:20 (KJV)

HolySpirit works in us to make us credible witnesses so that when God does a work we can tesitify that it was indeed God that did it.

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev. 12:11

But if one resists HolySpirit from working within then they can easily be discredited as a witness along with their testimony. The fact that they "loved not their lives unto death" made them credible witnesses and their testimonies strong.

20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
Eph 3:20-21 (KJV)

 

[Prentis]

Amen, Jiggyfly!

Once we understand it is God, and not us, we must drop the lie that says it is pride to have faith God can do such things. Somehow we have idolized men like Peter, John, Paul, etc... We have made them to be more then they are. Don't misunderstand my meaning, they are holy men, and the length to which they have gone for the gospel and for Christ is something to behold, that men would be of such faith, courage, and love. But we act as though they were the ones who did the deeds, we talk as though 'well we could never be like they were, they were 'special''! What is special is how much they gave themselves over to the purposes of God!

But the power that worked within them is the same power that works within us. If it does not work so mightily, it is become we have not submitted to it so fully. Nothing else.

 

[Prentis]

David and Goliath is also a good example for this: because he had overcome a lion and a bear by the power of God, he believed he could overcome Goliath also.

This is the same as Joshua and Caleb with the Promised Land. They had seen God's hand before, and learned through this to have faith, and believed God.

God has regenerated us, and given us new life, have we learned from this to believe him for all things, that he can save us to the uttermost, or do we still grumble in unbelief at the sight of the giants?

God gives rescues us for a purpose, that we would learn to have faith. At first we were rescued out of mercy... Have we learned anything? This is of the highest importance. God has given us a seed, does it bear fruit?

 

[FHII]

Implying Jesus was not tempted as we are!

Maintaining that we are at a disadvantage compared to Jesus (ie we CANNOT do all things through Christ who strengthens us)!

Stating that the sinful nature is more powerful than the new nature in Christ!

Denying the power of the cross to put to death the old man (and by the same denying the power of new life and ressurection which follows the cross)!

Jesus was tempted as we are.... So do you believe Jesus was married?

We aren't at a disadvantage? Well, I do agree with your arguement. But to say we have power to completely control the flesh? Even Paul admitted he couldn't.

So you believe we can overcome the sinful nature of the flesh? Yes, I believe we can too. However, it doesn't mean we won't sin. We've been through this before, shall we go through it again? How is your personal quest going to stop sinning?

The "old man" is the flesh. My flesh is still living. My "new man" is the spirit. It remains sinless because it is the same spirit as Christ's. My "old man" is dead to Christ. Yet is still walking around on this planet. My "new man" even as we speak, is sinless and not of this world.

 

[Prentis]

That power is available to us...

Of course, we cannot walk in it if we do not first go through the cross, death of the self. The old man is the old nature. This same confusion is rampant in Christianity; somehow man has been hoodwinked into thinking that the weak body and the adamic nature are one and the same. Rather, the weak body relies on the adamic nature for strength. If we learn to put to death this nature, and walk by the new nature given us in Christ, we will be just as he is.

My quest is to be just as he is, mature, and to attain the full stature of Christ. It is about being one with him. Somehow this is written off once again on the basis of 'that's proud' and 'your full of yourself', once again, the delusion that having faith in the power of God in us is pride, if it goes beyond what we have experienced... Which is when it starts to really be faith!

 

[aspen]

[sup]5[/sup] having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
It is a fearful thing to be claiming the name of God, and yet when it comes time to have faith in his power, to take him at his word, to say 'Impossible!' It is far more subtle than we often think... Here's a few examples:

Implying Jesus was not tempted as we are!

Maintaining that we are at a disadvantage compared to Jesus (ie we CANNOT do all things through Christ who strengthens us)!

Stating that the sinful nature is more powerful than the new nature in Christ!

Denying the power of the cross to put to death the old man (and by the same denying the power of new life and ressurection which follows the cross)!

It is simply a lack of faith....faith is the action of suspending your disbelief long enough to learn something new. Even cracking the door to take a quick peek (the faith of a mustard seed) is enough to see God's glory and grace in our lives. Amen.