Tithe...NOT a christian doctrine
- Thread starter Goinheix
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Sick eh, would you like prayer?
Paul also made distinction between "old" and "new" covenants.
Here is one.
7 The old way, with laws etched in stone, led to death, though it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away.8 Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way, now that the Holy Spirit is giving life?9 If the old way, which brings condemnation, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new way, which makes us right with God!10 In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new way.11 So if the old way, which has been replaced, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new, which remains forever!12 Since this new way gives us such confidence, we can be very bold.13 We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory, even though it was destined to fade away.14 But the people’s minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ.15 Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand.16 But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.17 For the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.18 So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image.
2 Cor 3:7-18 (NLT)Would you like to see some others?
charlesj
Member
Hello Goinheix:
The two verses of scripture you made reference to in Acts 15:28,29 are not dealing with the tithing. We all make the mistake(s) of taking something “out of context.” Read the whole context of the discussion and you will see that this issue in verses 28,29 is dealing with some Jewish Christians trying to add something to salvation, that is, “you must be circumcised first.” (Acts 15:5)
Giving:
Take a look at 1 Cor 16:2 and 2 Cor 9:6,7.
Upon the first day of the week let each one of you lay by him in store, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come. 1 Cor 16:2
But this I say, He that soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he that soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 7 Let each man do according as he hath purposed in his heart: not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 2 Cor 9:6,7
The above passages show Christians are to give bountifully, purposefully, and cheerfully into the treasury of their local congregation on the first day of every week.
I emphasize that the N.T. nowhere tells Christians to tithe, or to give ten percent of their capital gains. Israelites in the O.T. were so commanded. Yet they didn’t tithe their capital gains, but the produce of their flocks and agriculture. God commanded the Jews to bring the tithe to the Levitical priests so it could be stored in the storehouse in the temple (Mal 3:10)
No one today does any of this. Preachers presume to bind tithing on people not under the Law of Moses. It’s imposed on capital gains, not flocks, herds, and crops to feed the Levitical priests. Today, no Levitical priests exist. No storehouse exists in the temple to put the tithe in.
May He bless us as we honor and serve Him,
charles
Alright, let's see. From the definition of tithe, it says 10%. While it may never have been mentioned in NT Scripture, I think that it was a good idea as it ensured that the ministers of God, priests or preachers, would actually have income. So whether you tithe or not, probably doesn't matter. Whether you give, or not, does. I don't see what the big fuss is over tithing, since I don't even give 10%! 10% is the lowest amount that I give. I generally try to give more! To say that whoever practices tithing is going back under the Law is a very rash statement.
Whether we should tithe, no big deal, whether we should give to the ministry, a great big deal.
1Co 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
1Co 9:10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
1Co 9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
1Co 9:12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
charlesj
Member
Hello Groundzero:
Paul argues from an O.T. precedent that those who give full time to meeting the spiritual needs of people deserve to receive financial support from them. Ministers in churches actually deserve considerably more financial support than they are given!
We in our assembly don’t refer to the giving as “tithes.”
Thanks for your giving.
May He bless you,
charlesj
In our church, we say that if you give 10 percent, it's a tithe, since that is what tithe means. Anything over is an offering. In the end, it's giving, with a slightly different name. I don't really see any big fuss over it.
Reasons, reasons.I currently have my brains somewhere on the footy field! Lol. Wasn't too much to reply to. Not sure. Just did.
In the end, it's giving, with a slightly different name. I don't really see any big fuss over it.
Exactly what I was thinking.
FHII
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I never really thought it'd turn out to be a big deal... Someone says we don't have to tithe or give 10%, ok. That's an idea I can tolorate and even agree with. However, being forbidden to give that amount? That's a whole other deal.... I figured it was just a language barrier issue and would soon be settled. But he's pretty insistant that tithing is forbidden because it was in the Law (even though it existed before the law, which he denies).
Perhaps the word tithing is the problem. Perhaps it's ok to give 11%! We just can't give 10%!
The important thing is:
2 Corinthians 9:6-7 (ESV)
6 The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. 7 Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
FHII
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A few Scriptures, you draw the conclusions
2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
So, when Jesus told the man He had healed to go and sacrifice at the temple, do you do that as well?
Can you show me in the Law where wage earners were required to hand over one red cent to the Levites?
What does that have to di with tithing?
BTW
For a 'seasoned warrior', you certainly lack! Who was Jesus speaking to?! I think you know the answer.
Obviously someone thinks you made some good points. Let me show you where the Levites received a portion from the people:
Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.
Lev 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
Lev 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
I wish to ask you, what happened when they gave it to the Lord? How was it used? Who used it? After all, I don't think God came down and used all that stuff literally. I'll answer the question of what was done with all the Lord's things.
Num_18:26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.
It was given to the Levites. And there falls flat your assumption that the people never had to give a cent to the Levites. While for the most part they may not have gotten money, they got a tenth of ALL the FOOD, ANIMALS, ETC that Israel got.
What does the scripture have to do with tithing? Probably not much. It actually would fit under offering, as tithing is one/tenth. It does, however, illustrate that the early church still gave, and they gave quite a bit.
All in all, I don't think tithing is a doctrine that we MUST do, however, I believe that we MUST give to God. It certainly does help when we allocate 10% to God automatically. The Scripture will have the last word:
2Co 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
I hope you don't mind if I refuse to engage in ad hominem bantering with you.....
Yes. He was speaking to a man at a time when all the Israelites were still under the Law.
Ok. I get that. Those who owned producing lands, herds and flocks handed over a tithe of those very items from the fields, herds and flocks.
My question had to do with wage earners who had no producing lands, herds or flocks. Where do you see them handing over a portion of their monetary wages to the Levites in those verses? Please point it out to us.
My question had nothing to do with what was done with the tithe of grains, produce and livestock. I don't see that such an approach has anything to do with my question.
It appears that you sidestepped the fact that the tithe is specifically defined as the increase from producing fields, flocks and herds.
Are you saying that injecting wages into those verses, even though wages are nowhere identified as a defining element of the tithe, is a legitimate form of interpretation? Is silence the only strength behind your argument?
I fully believe in giving. However, I don't get the assumptions behind the tithe theory. The claims don't seem to line up with the word of God.
I like it that people allow scriture to have the last word.
The problem is with all those socially and religiously engineered theologies that have no basis in scripture that bother me the most.
BTW
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