Tithes and Offerings

[Unorthodox Christian]

(crooner;58681)
Were talking about jewish law not God, even though it relates to God. Jewish law is not the same to day. It is finished. We are under grace.
Matthew 5:17-20Jesus Christ did not come to END THE LAW rather to Fulfill it.Must we do away with the 10 commandments? Look beyond the 613 Levitical laws? If We be in Christ(The Body Baptize through the Holy Ghost) and he be in Us(Baptism of the Holy Ghost and the New Birth) then these laws abide in us, For Christ is the law.Goodness, ALL THE INCOME WE RECEIVE IS OF THE LORD, He gives us 90% OF HIS OWN WEALTH and all the Lord is asking for is 10%! How hard is it to give the Lord 10 dollars out of 100 when he's already given you the 90 dollars.

 

[tomwebster]

treeoflife,Believe it or not, I agree with your post on tithing

I believe it is important to return part of what we have received. I am wondering about your thoughts on to whom we should give our tithe? I think we should tithe where we are taught God's Word.

 

[treeoflife]

(tomwebster;58685)
treeoflife,Believe it or not, I agree with your post on tithing

I believe it is important to return part of what we have received. I am wondering about your thoughts on to whom we should give our tithe? I think we should tithe where we are taught God's Word.
Well, praise the Lord that we agree!

I tend to agree with that (tithe where we are taught God's Word). On occasion I will donate tithe to a special cause, or group that I believe is serving the Lord. But, for the vast majority, we give back to our church. I'm not sure if God's Word has directed us on that specifically... if He has, I would love to know so that I can obey

.We give to the church we attend... because we have been called by God to be a part of that church; therefore, the tithe which we are called to give goes to that church. That's the way I see it.

 

[MyTwoCents]

(kriss;58009)
you are supposed to tithe about 10% of your left over income after you take care care of your responsabilies I do not mean go out and buy a large screen T.V, and then whats left give to God,but you are to take care of your food housing family needs.
I know it's later on in the post, but I just wanted to comment on this Kriss...I think you should do some research on what it meant to give "firstfruits" to the Lord. He doesn't want you to give once everything is comfortable and taken care of. He wants you to give when it actually requires faith. Jesus illustrated this with the story of the poor woman giving her last penny. Wants you to give the FIRSTfruits...the first 10%...not what's left over after your done with your purposes.I'm not here to point fingers, and I'm certainly not here to tell anyone they're wrong, because I've been corrected enough to know not to...but I do feel I have an understanding on this, and we are here to grow ourselves in Christ and knowlege. Type in "firstfruits" in the keyword search on biblegateway.Crooner, I'm still waiting for my case studys on tithes...:study:

 

[marksman]

What you have to decide is whether you want to be an old testament christian or a new testament christian. An OT christian lives under the law, a NT christian lives under grace. The NT christian is guided by the NT. The OT christian is guided by the OT. In the NT there is no mention of tithing in any instruction about giving in the NT church. The only time the word is used was by Jesus himself who said that the Pharisees tithed to the least little thing but ignored the weightier matters of the law. He said it as a rebuke, not as an instruction for the NT church.The NT church never tithed and the money collected (spasmodically) was used for three things. One, to help other believers that were caught up in the famine prophesied by Agabus; two, to help the apostles when they were travelling and could not earn an income for themselves: three, for the poor and needy of the church. No money was collected to pay someone a salary because no one was paid a salary in the NT church.In the Malachi account, the words were written to the Jews, not to the church.As Richard has said, the Galatian christians had been falsley taught that they had to obey the law. Paul was saying you don't. To say that we have to obey the law is the same as saying that Paul did not know what he was talking about.The tithe in the OT was not 10%. It was three tithes of 10% each during the year so it totalled 30%. If you want to be an OT christian, you have to give away 30% of your income.There is nowhere in scripture that says God gives us 90% to use for ourselves and 10% to be returned to him. Whatever we have belongs to him and it is our responsibility to hear from God what we are to give.There have been times when I have given everything I had. Even so, I never went without because God has promised to meet all our needs. Just as a matter of interest, the church doesn't have electricity bills for the simple reason you are the church, not the building you meet in. You are not obliged to give any money for the upkeep of a building or to pay salaries if you want to be a NT christian. A NT christian always gave money to meet the needs of people who were...in need.

 

[crooner]

Good reply Marksman. There are a lot of people that are afraid to descuss old testament tithes, but many scholars are taking a better look at tithing. The one thing that really gets me is every seven years there was no tithing because the jews had to give the land a rest. These guys expressing paying tithes certainly are not wanting to give anyone a break on tithing even if it was so. I guess people like living in bondage as opposed to freely giving. Oh well thay will still get to heaven.

 

[jtartar]

(MyTwoCents;57949)
What an excellent time we live in that we can have such a resource to fellowship with Christians from all over! Sorry, I'm just glad I can ask this online, as I'm sure I'd get different responses asking a church, and I like to keep my tithing secret.I have a long story that, if I stay active on these forums I'm sure yall will eventually hear, but for the sake of this post, let me say that I have been very spiritual, then had a spiritual drought of about a year, maybe a little less, and within the last month or two I have pulled out strong, and now stand in test for perserverence once again.Because of the time I missed my tithes, my spirit has been tugging at me. I started out keeping track of how much I "owed" God, and it eventually piled up and I lost track. I thought for a while what to do about it, I was going back and trying to find out how much I had stolen from God, but it was more money than I could handle, and I have to give it all or nothing, so I prayed a lot about it and God told me to figure out my net worth. Calculate all my bank accounts, the worth of my automobiles, my tools, my debts, and figure out what I had, and give ten percent of it. So I did that, and now I have this big check.Well I'm new to my area, and haven't joined a church yet, so here's the dillemma.(sp)I have a charity that I am super passionate about, but what I have learned from Pastors is that the ten percent tithe is to go to the church. Anything else you give is an offering, but always give the 10% to the church. Who believes this, who doesn't? I'm really torn where this money should go...I found a church that I go to, and I know that God is there. There is a business meeting coming up discussing where their money goes, and I can't wait to attend. I really think about these things, like where my donations to the church are going.I want to give it to the hungry children. If God wants me to give it to a church in America so they can have another church building set up with sound systems, projector screens and huge ceilings for Americans who have a hundred churches in their town already, then that's what I'll do, for it's his will I seek, not mine. But I really want the money to give a starving child some rice for the week, maybe some clothes to wear in the winter. What a better use of money it seems...So torn...please help...I pray for wisdom on this matter, please join in.ray3:
MyTwoCents, It is very commendable for you to have a conscience that pricks you when you believe that you have done something wrong, BUT!! - - - Many religious leaders want you to believe that you owe Tithes WHY??? Because they benefit from your Tithes. Notice that the Bible says that many false teachers will EXPLOIT you, 2Pet 2:1-3. So, it is to the Holy Scriptures that all Christians should look for the truth. Consider what Paul wrote at 2Cor 9:7. People should give as they feel they can, not grudgelingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. The Thithinng laws were part of the Old Mosaic Law Covenant. Tithes were given to the trive of Levi because they were not given land when the promised land was apportioned out to the tribes of Israel. The carried out the Priestly duties for all the tribes. The other tribes gave a tenth to the tribe of Levi so they could continue doing their duties at the temple. The Mosaic Law Covenant ended with the death of Jesus, Col 2:13,14, 2Cor 3:6-10,14. On the night before his death Jesus instituted the NEW COVENANT, that took the place of the Mosaic Law Covenant, Luke 22:17-20. The Law was like a Tutor leading to Christ, when he came that ended the Law Covenant, Gal 3:24,25. The New Covenant superceded the Mosaic Law Covenant, made it obsolete, because the New Covenant was based on the blood of Jesus Christ, which was much greater than the blood of goats and bulls that the Mosaic Law was based on, Heb 8:5-13, 9:11-24, Heb 7:20-25, Acts 13:38,39.

 

[Brother Mike]

come on folks......... Whats 10 percent of your Gross income? Why look for ways not to give?jtartar had written:
Many religious leaders want you to believe that you owe Tithes WHY??? Because they benefit from your Tithes.
If this upset Jesus why did he not stop that widow women from giving her LAST two mites to the most corrupt religious leaders of the time?Jesus commended her and she got eternally recorded in the Word of God for giving everything she had. Also we have a choice where to sow our seed. Are you saying your pastor is not good enough for your faithfulness in tithing to God?Should someone that preaches salvation be less wealthy than someone that runs a Porn magazine? Are you saying the Devils children need to keep all the money and the ones that work for the one that created everything not have nice things? Should not our pastors drive the best cars and wear the most expensive clothes? Who's planet is this? Who owns the Gold? Who created everything? God did, and the thief stole it!!! Time to get it back.... Jesus mentioned it to the pharisees, Abraham gave a tenth of ALL and we are blessed with faithful Abraham. Nothing in the New Covenant said anything about not tithing to God. It was a fulfilled law. Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. Ok, so actual money was only mentioned once by Jesus to the pharisees. Jesus said God was due something as well as Caesar. Well if God is due some Coin then what percent would that be? Does the bible give a clue about what that percent might be anywhere? Oh, ya. it's 10 percent of what I make. I can't pay in cattle or herbs, but I do get a check that pays me money. 2Co 9:10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;) My question is, why would you not want to tithe to God? I can't answer for anyone here but from my ministering to others it comes down to (NO FAITH!!) I don't know how many times I have heard Christians tell me they can't afford to tithe. That's not a problem, God won't bother you with it. However, for those that want to honor God, be as Faithful Abraham, Be as Jacob and give God back a tenth of all he received from God then you can shout!!!God ministers (Gives seed) to the Sower!! if your not a sower you won't be bothered with it. God also multiple's what you give. If your not a giver then you won't have to worry about anything being multiplied. There is more though.2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:2Co 9:11 Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God. OK, so you say the bible does not mention money? it does, but for the sake of discussion lets say the Word does not. If your a Sower God said he will make all Grace about toward you!! So that you have a sufficient supply of ALL THINGS and are able to not to be no longer hindered in doing good works. Think Job promotions, the right people coming into your path as happened so many times in the Bible, blessed in all you do. Then you can be in a position to Pay someone's mortgage or just buy their house. Buy someone a new car that needs it, bless your church with new Bibles ect......... God will put you in a place to be a major Blessing, being enriched in everything!!! God is not going to dump loads of grain in your yard for seed to sow or cows are not just going to walk up to your house so that you can give them away. He is going to use the monetary system you are currently under. This is not rocket science. So we are talking about Giving Money unless you live in some village in a remote part of the world.God gives us Power to get WEALTH to establish his Covenant!! (Deut 8:18) There is still word to be preached things to do. This Takes MONEY!!! If God calls your pastor to be on TV do you have a understanding of what that is going to cost? Just think of how many people will get the word then. Giving is not based on amount, it's based on your heart. I get my check and set 10 percent aside right away before any bill gets paid. I thank God for my Job and his Grace, that money belongs to him. Then I consider what else needs to be set aside for the Kingdom. God has asked me to give beyond what my bills were several times and tithe but I know he never fails and the money is coming to cover everything. I have been blessed tremendously. My two vans just given to me, my rent paid for me out of the blue several times, my son was given a brand new computer from some women that called us up and told me that God told her to do it (Out of the blue folks). Bless God he was believing and tithing faithfully over a year for that computer. Abraham was a faithful tither, Jacob was a faithful tither of everything God gave him.Gen 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.Notice Jacob ended up pretty wealthy in the end.The first murder occurred over a tithe (Remember Cain?) Ananias and Sapphira both dropped dead concerning lying about what they gave. I don't want to mess with it. God get's His 10 Percent. Bless God everyone and great post...Jesus Is Lord.

 

[tomwebster]

I think we are missing something in this post, although I must admit I have not gone back to re-read all of the responses. If we tithe out of a sense of duty, because we "have to," or out of a sense of guilt, or to get something, we will loss the "blessing from giving." 10% or 100% of our income doesn't really matter. Giving back to God out of a spirit of gratitude, giving because we love Him is the gift He will bless. I would rather use the word 'offering" instead of the more legal word "tithe." This offering type of giving shows our faith. Just a thought.

 

[MyTwoCents]

What great posts! I somehow knew this would be a complex issue...there are many views on it, and I'm open minded to all of them. I love to hear other's views to be better educated to be solidified in my own.I don't know about the "being an OT christian or a NT christian." I think the christians truely walking in God's spirit understand what both are for. The OT is still a valid book, it was not Jesus's role to make this book obsolete, to make us look at it and say, "pssshh, I don't follow that!!!" I think the NT overrides a lot of it, but it is still a good picture book to how we are supposed to be, about God's character, what God likes to see.I think a lot of what is happening today is people being mislead in both directions. Yes, I agree, people are being thrown a guilt trip and lack understanding, thus, giving out of guilt and the church promoting such is a 'den of robbers.' However, I also agree that the world today is finding many excuses not to give. Once again, I am NOT....let me say again...I am NOT...giving out of guilt, out of obligation, or because a man tells me to. I am willing to give my 10% (or more if I'm so led!) because there are certain things that are not required, but are definately a show of faith to God and make me a part of His team! Certain things that surely go beyond just tithing! If I spent that same tenth on porn, I suppose I could say I am living under grace, but that 10% of my money would be being used for the wrong team! "You are either with me or against me." I don't see giving 10% to the church or to a religious charity being a negative impact for Christ.Marksman, one thing you said that I couldn't agree more with is that the church is not a building, and therefore does not have electric bills. Oh yes, I preach this a lot. BUT...just like kids want a clubhouse to hang out and be friends, while it's not necessary to be friends, it sure helps....Christians want a building they can all meet at and focus on our God....this is the church building. Not a necessity, but an avenue. Not the actual "church", but a place where the church can come together. And that place does have bills, and it should be supported by the church, which is it's people.Nice posts guys, thanks a million. Don't worry, I have about 6 more questions coming

 

[Brother Mike]

tomwebster had Written.
If we tithe out of a sense of duty, because we "have to," or out of a sense of guilt, or to get something, we will loss the "blessing from giving.
Ya, go read the last couple post, mine above cover this. We are told not to give because of duty or guilt. That is covered in 2 Cor 9. but the getting something part we MUST expect. Why? once again read my post. God said he is Going to Multiply the Seed sown. You reap what you sow, each seed produces after it's own kind. If God said it's going to get multiplied then I have to believe and expect my sowing to be multiplied and increased. Lots of Christians (Good share of them) just drop 10 or 20 in the tithe basket and think nothing of it. They say they don't expect anything back from God. This is pride and not what God said about giving. They are suppose to believe what the Word does say. Can God trust you with money? Can he make you wealthy and supply the Gospel knowing that your will give all millions in a instant if he asks for it, knowing that it is going to be multiplied. We all have to start somewhere, and it starts with being faithful with something.tithing is a great way to show God that your going to be faithful in a little and your ready to move up. Look in Mark 10: Jesus told that rich young ruler to sell all and give the money to the poor. (MONEY FOLKS!!) The rich young ruler made a gave mistake and walked away. Wealth was his God and he did not stick around to hear what Jesus had to say. Mar 10:29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, Mar 10:30 But he shall receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life. Jesus was trying to get that young rulers mind off the money, Jesus was trying to make him many times richer than before. Jesus said if you put the kingdom of God first, ready to give everything your going to get 100 times back what you gave (NOW IN THIS TIME and in the time to come eternal life.) 10 percent of our income pales in comparison to what Jesus asked this young man to give.my question is still why not give God the tenth for what he has done for us. God said there were Tithes and offerings. He made the difference in Malachi.Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. God sees a difference and so should we........Thank you for the post!!!Jesus is Lord!!

 

[tomwebster]

Brother Mike,I didn't think you would understand my post.

 

[Brother Mike]

Sorry Brother I hope I did not misquote you to much. I am rereading everything again.I think it would do us good to separate the law of sin and death from the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. Jesus never abolished the Law, but fulfilled it. It was fulfilled with the Royal law of love. All the whole law hang under the law of love. Nothing has been done away with in the Old Testament. It's still the eternal Word of God. God never changes. What has been taken away is the curse that comes from breaking the law and tradition. Stealing is not walking in love, that breaks the law. Eating pork is not walking in love toward pigs (Joking), so eating pork is good. (taste good also) The new law is written on the tablets of our heart and the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost. My convictions says God comes first and I have enough scriptures to give him the tenth of what I bring in. there is nothing that says we stop being faithful when it comes to the things of God with our money. Tithing is part of being faithful. If God blesses me with a Job, then why not give him a tenth of what I make. Jesus Is Lord.God Bless everyone.

 

[crooner]

! Cor 16:1-4 Now about the collection for Gods people. Do what I told the Galation people to dn the first day of every week, each one of you should set a side a sum of money in keeping with his income. Saving it up so that when I come no collections will have to be made.Paul wrote this He was a jew understood old laws, tithing etc. Did he just talk about tithing in that scripture? I think not.We are to give from the heart. We are not living under Jewish law. If you watch tv ministries they are all trying to bring back old law cerimonies and I wonder why? If they can established old law in new testament times they think they can justify tithing. Maybe they will eventually start telling people who get circumsized they are finally saved.Theres a difference between the old and new testament. I suggest we follow the New.People back then had trouble with law and grace.I suggest every one study Hebrews again.

 

[Brother Mike]

I understand where your coming from Brother. I don't agree though.We do have to do what we believe what is right before God. If you convinced of what you believe then I do not have any right to put anyone under bondage.God Bless.

 

[marksman]

I would have to say brother Mike that you do not appear to have a gift of teaching. What you have said is a classic example of someone who has been taught something, accepted it uncritically and then searched for scripture to support your theory, mostly taking it out of context and making it say what it doesn't say.Your reference to 2 Corinthians has completely missed the context of the letter. Where Paul was talking about money, it was in the context of the collection that was being made for the church at Jerusalem which was going through difficult times financially. It has nothing at all to do with paying a pastor or running a church or financing a building. It certainly was not Paul telling the church to tithe a tenth. He was instructing them to put money aside each week according to how much income they had so that when he came to visit them, he would not have to take up a collection for the Jerusalem church. When he arrived, they would all bring the money that they has accrued over the months and give it to Paul to take to the Jerusalem church.The talk about sowing was a metaphor he used which they would understand was him explaining a principal of life which was unless you put seed into the ground you didn't get a crop. The anaology includes a reference to producing children as well. He is saying that you need to join the seed with the egg if you want children, emphasising the laws of nature. The verses in Romans that talks about seed and sowing do not have any reference to money in the Greek. The reference to Mark 10 has nothing to do with money. Jesus is saying that if you leave everything, I will make sure you don't miss out but the return will be with suffering in this life. Unfortunately the prosperity doctrine has led people up the garden path and has made them believe that God will make you rich and everything will be rosy.As far as God needing our money, he doesn't. Healing the sick doesn't need money, it needs faith in God's word. Casting out demons doesn't need money only faith in God's word. Meeting the needs of the poor doesn't need your money only God's provision as and when it is needed. God doesn't need church buildings because he already has homes. God doesn't need paid pastors because he has the priesthood of all believers, none of whom are paid to be good.Malachi 3:8 has nothing to do with the church. It was written to the Jews. if you are going to take your cues from the Old Testament law, you will have to stop wearing garments that are made of two different material.There is nothing in scripture that says pastors are a cut above the rest and should have the best cars and expensive clothes. It does say that if you want to lead you have to be a servant. I don't know where you get the idea that the bible talks about giving 10%. There is no mention of a tithe anywhere for NT believers, anywhere. If you only give 10%, you are robbing God, as he owns everything we have and he gives us the power to get what we have. Therefore we have no right to withhold 90% of it.

 

[marksman]

"Christians want a building they can all meet at and focus on our God....this is the church building. Not a necessity, but an avenue. Not the actual "church", but a place where the church can come together. And that place does have bills, and it should be supported by the church, which is it's people."Quite right they do, but God doesn't. That is why the NT church met in homes. They would rather spend their money spreading the gospel, supporting the sending out of apostles and looking after the poor. The scriptures make it clear that Jesus came to do away with the externals, that is why his temple is our bodies. He doesn't need one made of bricks. The only reason why we have them is that they are a substitute for us being filled with the Spirit of God. When we are filled with the Spirit, the temple of God is wherever we are. When we are not filled with the Spirit we have to go back to man made substitutes with all its ritual and religion. When we are filled with the Spirit we do not need buildings to heal the sick, cast out demons and proclaim the good news of the gospel.

 

[jtartar]

(MyTwoCents;57949)
What an excellent time we live in that we can have such a resource to fellowship with Christians from all over! Sorry, I'm just glad I can ask this online, as I'm sure I'd get different responses asking a church, and I like to keep my tithing secret.I have a long story that, if I stay active on these forums I'm sure yall will eventually hear, but for the sake of this post, let me say that I have been very spiritual, then had a spiritual drought of about a year, maybe a little less, and within the last month or two I have pulled out strong, and now stand in test for perserverence once again.Because of the time I missed my tithes, my spirit has been tugging at me. I started out keeping track of how much I "owed" God, and it eventually piled up and I lost track. I thought for a while what to do about it, I was going back and trying to find out how much I had stolen from God, but it was more money than I could handle, and I have to give it all or nothing, so I prayed a lot about it and God told me to figure out my net worth. Calculate all my bank accounts, the worth of my automobiles, my tools, my debts, and figure out what I had, and give ten percent of it. So I did that, and now I have this big check.Well I'm new to my area, and haven't joined a church yet, so here's the dillemma.(sp)I have a charity that I am super passionate about, but what I have learned from Pastors is that the ten percent tithe is to go to the church. Anything else you give is an offering, but always give the 10% to the church. Who believes this, who doesn't? I'm really torn where this money should go...I found a church that I go to, and I know that God is there. There is a business meeting coming up discussing where their money goes, and I can't wait to attend. I really think about these things, like where my donations to the church are going.I want to give it to the hungry children. If God wants me to give it to a church in America so they can have another church building set up with sound systems, projector screens and huge ceilings for Americans who have a hundred churches in their town already, then that's what I'll do, for it's his will I seek, not mine. But I really want the money to give a starving child some rice for the week, maybe some clothes to wear in the winter. What a better use of money it seems...So torn...please help...I pray for wisdom on this matter, please join in.ray3:
MyTwoCents, As a Christian you are not under the tithing law The tithe was instituted for the tribe of Levi, the tribe that the Priests came from. The tribe of Levi did not receive a plot of land in the promised land so the other tribes were to give the tribe of Levi a tenth so they could carry on the work at the temple. Paul said he was not under the Law, Rom 6:14,15, 1Cor 9:20. Paul was a Jew, so if the Mosaic Law Covenant was in effect, he would have been under it. The Mosaic Law Covenant was superceded by the New Covenant, which Jesus instituted on the night before his death, The Last Supper, Luke 22:19,20. After the New Covenant was instituted the Mosaic Law then became obsolete, Heb 8:5-13. The Law ended with the death of Jesus, Col 2:13,14. Jesus came to die for the Jews to remove the Law Covenant from them because it condemned them to death, because they could not obey it perfectly, Gal 3:10-13, Rom 7:4-6, 2Cor 3:6,7, 5:3, James 2:10, Acts 15:10. Jesus also gave his life as a ransom for every person who has faith in that ranson and obeys his Fathers commandments, just as he does, John 15:10, 1John 5:3.

 

[DivineHeartChurch]

I read your post, and what you said has weighed on me heart for some time. There would be those that say only give to the Church, and I have had this happen to me as well, but the Lord is putting in your heart to give to that Charity, to the children that need your help. It is his will that is guiding you, and he has put this in your heart.Give To Whats In Your Heart, and know that the Lord will bless you.Dr. Bob Newmanhttp://www.divineheartsoflife.com:bible:

 

[marksman]

Thanks jtartar for your contributions. It is so good that there are others who want to base what they believe on the scriptures, not man's ideas and the traditions of men.