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Tithing

Discussion in 'Christian Finance Forum' started by Wayne, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. HeRoseFromTheDead

    HeRoseFromTheDead Not So Advanced Member

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    Tithing as it is taught today is not tithing as taught in the law. Today's tithing is an income tax, which is not biblical. Gifts and a religious income tax are two very separate things. The former is a fruit of the spirit; the latter is a form of self righteousness. The former is of GOD; the latter is of the world.
     
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  2. Axehead

    Axehead New Member

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    Tithing as it was taught in the OT was tied to sacrifices and the temple, both of which have ceased to exist.
     
  3. meshak

    meshak New Member

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    There are too many rules or regulations to keep the organization going. and tithing is just another one of them.

    It is all about "control".
     
  4. Enquirer

    Enquirer New Member

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    Tithing ... I've read, watched vids and heard thousands (fact) of sermons on tithing and am quite aware of all the arguments as to why we
    should tithe and why we should not tithe.
    So I'm not ignorant to the viewpoints.
    For a start, God owns everything because he made it all.
    But back to the question of tithing.

    Do you believe in the promises of God ?
    Do you believe God just said a bunch of stuff to fill a book we call the Bible ?

    God said,

    “For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven and do not return there but water the earth, making it bring forth and sprout, giving
    seed to the sower and bread to the eater, so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall
    accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it. (Isa 55:11)

    So, God's word, his prophecies, his promises good or bad will come to pass like it or not.

    And God has said,

    Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the LORD of hosts,
    if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need.
    I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it will not destroy the fruits of your soil, and your vine in the field shall not fail to bear, says
    the LORD of hosts. (Mal 3:10 -11)

    So if you want the promises mentioned then tithe it's that simple.
    This bypasses all the arguments against tithing and the teary-eyed begging sermons for it.
    Because you're approaching God based on his promises.
    So do you want the promised word or not ?

    Yes, you do ?
    Then tithe.

    You don't ?
    Then don't tithe.
     
  5. walls of jericho941

    walls of jericho941 New Member

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    Something I would like to point out about what enquirer said regarding mal 3:10-11. It says bring the tithe into the ... wait for it.... STOREHOUSE. If you look up the word storehouse in hebrew or greek you will see that it is not a church or a temple or a sanctuary. It is a place to store victuals, I.e. food clothes etc for the poor. To be given to the poor. I say again, given, to the poor. I heard God speak thru a man once and he said, if I sent you my hungry, would you feed them. When God asks a question He wants you to think, He already knows the answer.

    Why are preachers preaching the storehouse is the church. And even more many churches will flat out say we are not set up to give or store food. Preachers say if you want meat in the store house bring your tithes... refering to meat as the word being preached.

    now maybe God showed you to tithe in a church, and if so you should do that. But based upon what I have posted take a guess what God showed me. Store houses of today are called food banks or missions or soup kitchens. Look at what the bible says about giving to those in need and where is Gods heart on this. Ask Him what He has to say about this.
     
  6. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    [​IMG]
     
  7. Enquirer

    Enquirer New Member

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    Angelina that's simply brilliant :D :lol: !
     
  8. Rocky Wiley

    Rocky Wiley New Member

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    Walls,

    I don't think God would ask someone to do something that is no longer required (tithe). But your post has put in my heart to make an extra effort to give to the food banks in my area, for that is where our giving should go.

    God bless!
     
  9. Axehead

    Axehead New Member

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    If you know about the the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (walking by the Spirit), you will fulfill God's will and there is no law, regulations, rule or ordinances that supersede the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.

    Some scriptures for you to meditate on:

    Rom_7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

    Rom_8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

    Rom_8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    Gal_3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

    Gal_3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

    Gal_5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

    Axehead

    Think about what the fruit of the Spirit is and how these fruits abound in you not by any laws, ordinances, rules or Old Testament principles, but only by the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.


    Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.



    If the Spirit of God cannot convince you, I certainly can't. Are you free to follow the leading of the Spirit of God? Do you know Him?

    2Co_13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
     
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  10. JPPT1974

    JPPT1974 Flowers of May Encounter Team

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    We need to tithe from the bottom of our hearts and spirit. Not how much we give. But give it from our heart!
     
  11. Brother James

    Brother James Active Member

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    I am not going to bicker with anyone, or call anyone ignorant, or in any way be ugly to anyone. For some reason, followers of Christ can sometimes treat each other very badly. But this does seem to be an emotional topic. I'll just share my understanding, and folks can take it as they wish.

    The tithe was never the first 10% as many pastors teach. It was "every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd's rod." Not the first, but the tenth. If there were only nine sheep, none were given. Leviticus 27:32.

    Also, the produce of the land was to be given. That was it. Animals and produce. No gold. No fish. No wages. Nothing else. That is the tithe God implemented for Israel. It was given to the priests and placed in the temple storehouse. It fed the priests.

    Under the new covenant how can anyone limit themselves to 10% or command of anyone 10%. 100% of everything we have is God's, isn't it? He can lay claim to 100% of what you have. He can lay claim to your very life for His glory. And, at times, He may require nothing monetarily from a person. It is His. Laying down laws and commanding the Church to follow laws is man-made doctrine. "Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?" (Acts 15:10). Demanding adherance to some tithing law and accusing believers of robbing God if they don't do it is NOT scritural. That is the kind of yoke the Pharisees put on people. There is no formula. If you see a need and you have the means, perhaps God requires 20% of what you have to meet the need. Who can say to Him, "no, some of that is MINE"? And some have nothing. A starving Christian in Nigeria owes nothing to any church under some supposed doctrine of tithing as they face death for their faith in Christ at the hands of unbelievers who persecute them.
     
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  12. Axehead

    Axehead New Member

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    Men purpose within their own heart how much of anything they give.

    2Co_9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity (what men tell you is necessary): for God loveth a cheerful giver.

    If a man is walking in harmony with the Holy Spirit, then his will, is to do the will of Him who sent him.

    We need to stop being held captive by other men's wills and what they determine for our lives. To God alone, you stand or fall.
     
  13. Enquirer

    Enquirer New Member

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    This is my personal experience/observation that most people who don't tithe and make the biggest noise against tithing
    are the very same people who give as little as possible or nothing at all.
    This is not always the case but is true in many instances.

    The same people have no problem in buying an expensive shirt, going on a holiday, buying luxuries etc.
    But giving to God is a no-no.
    I remember hearing a story where a very wealthy woman sat next to a Ps. and gave him 5 dollars when the offering plate came
    past and asked him to put the 5 bucks in for her.
    He replied, "sorry I don't tip God".
    And that's what many do, they tip God, He is an after-thought.

    "Ok then let's see how much I've got in my pocket ... um no, I'm gonna keep the fifty because of XYZ, but hey look there, I've still
    got another 20 bucks ... no wait, I've still got to go to wherever, let's see in my other pocket I'm sure I saw something there this
    morning ... oh yes, here's five.
    Thank you Jesus for the five bucks, I pray you will meet my needs because Sally needs new shoes and my gearbox is giving me hassles".
    Really ?????
    C'mon, who do you think God is, some kind of fool ?
    And this happens Sunday after Sunday.

    A personal story ...

    One day during lunch break I went over to the garage to buy a pie and coke (petrol pumps where they have a little shop - don't know what
    you call them), anyhow, feeling through my pockets I felt some notes and coins.
    Now we in South Africa have gotten rid of a few smaller coins for a number of reasons, but on that day I had a bunch of them sitting at the
    bottom of my pocket.
    So I decided to get rid of them and just toss them on the grass, which I did.
    Immediately I heard a voice speak up on the inside of me, "What are you doing with my money" ?
    As sure as God made little green apples I bent down and picked them up again and said, "Sorry Lord".

    You see, God owns everything, EVERYTHING that his children possess.
    That fifty, twenty and five including that "skedonk" (beat up car), that won't travel faster than fifty even if you threw it down a mineshaft.
    So where do we think we're fooling God with that mingy five bucks ?
    Did Jesus stop that old woman who gave everything she owned ?
    No.

    Paul says (NT) 2 Cor 8:15,

    As it is written, “Whoever gathered much had nothing left over, and whoever gathered little had no lack.”

    And that's exactly what many of us do, we gather as much as we can for ourselves and give God peanuts.
    and wonder why we've got zilch, zero, nothing. nada.

    He goes on to say in 2 Cor 9:6,

    The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.

    Jesus echoed these words when he said, "with the same measure you mete it will be measured to you".

    Yes, contextually he was speaking about forgiveness but that is a divine principal that works in every area of life.

    Most people don't have a system of giving at all, it's just what's available at the time in their pocket.
    There is no planning, there is no thought to giving it's just what I have.
    So when it comes to tithing you discover that the people who do tithe have planned, have worked out what they're going to
    give.
    There is discipline.

    And their churches are growing in number and outreach, and impacting their community because they can afford to do it.
    I can take you to a dozen churches where tithing is taught and a dozen where it is not and without a doubt those who do tithe
    are growing faster, doing more for God and making more of a difference.
    Those who don't teach tithing are always begging, crying for money, have little impact and the majority of the congregation
    are poor.

    When I joined my current church it had just a little over 70 people.
    Today, a mere five years later we number well over 800 and are growing by leaps and bounds.
    We have built - debt free - during this world financial crisis a multimillion dollar building, have started a Bible School, a busines
    School and we reach out to the impoverished community and much more.
    Oh, and we have just built a balcony that seats an extra 400 people - all debt free ... and we owe no one a single cent.

    My Pastor teaches tithing, you know that OT doctrine, the one that's supposed to have past away.
    So I wonder if there are any merits to tithing ?
     
  14. Brother James

    Brother James Active Member

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    So you believe your church grew because of the actions of men? Acts 2:47 said it was God who added to the number of the church daily "those who were being saved." It is not right to boast about all "we" have done. As far as those who believe that teachings on tithing are wrong being the stingiest people, I would suggest that you have no way of knowing that. People who think they can get away with 10% when 100% belongs to God might in fact be the stingiest. What if God requires 30% of me for 5 years? Can I tell him, no, only 10% is yours?
     
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  15. Axehead

    Axehead New Member

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    My observations are that "Tithers" keep track of what percentage they give and assume their blessings are because they give 10%.

    My other observations are that many of them pay attention to what others give and try to figure out if they are giving their "required" 10%.

    Further observations is that "Tithers" give their alms before men (that is how they prove to others that they are giving and figure out what others give).

    Many churches keep track of what their members give (so they know who is giving 10% or not).

    Brother James has it right. Everything your are and have belongs to God and that is why the "Tithe" has no place in Christianity. We are not part of a "taxing system" (by compulsion or necessity), anymore.

    Being "in Christ", gives you the freedom to give as you "purpose within your own heart" without any condemnation.

    The Tithe was carried over by Religious Christendom as a tax and had no place in the Early Church.

    You don't give to earn God's blessings.

    Notice, how people equate "Giving to God" as giving to a religious organization and not giving to a religious organization as stealing from God. That is very convenient, especially for the salaried religious leaders who need to count on being able to finance a monthly budget.
     
  16. Enquirer

    Enquirer New Member

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    @ Brother James ...

    So you don't believe that "the actions of men are necessary" ?
    I beg to differ, because then the Great commission wouldn't have been given ... God could have done it all himself by
    sending the Holy Spirit.
    But the actions of men do make a difference, whether it's spreading the word, living holy before men including your giving that enables
    churches to fund missionaries, run programs to train people on how to witness etc.

    Also, playing your part in the body of Christ is not a "boast" but a calling and if anyone does boast let him boast in the Lord.
    Everything we have comes from the Lord so ultimately no one can take credit as if they did anything but must recognise that
    they are a tool in God's hand that He uses to further his kingdom.
    But just because we have a role to play - and we do - does not mean that we need to feel guilty about it either.

    Are you feeling guilty because you're playing your part ?
    I'm not.

    Furthermore, God does indeed own everything - I said so - and so if you want to give more then do so.
    Also, I said, that it was my observation that the biggest complainers against tithing were on most but not all occasions really non-givers or minimalistic
    in their approach to giving.
    And I stand by my words.

    @ Axehead ...

    Correct, most tithers do keep track of what they give, but like myself do so because they believe that all the promises of God are yes and amen.
    So is it wrong to believe in the promises of God ?
    You believe the promise that if you believe in Christ you will be saved don't you ?
    So why shouldn't a tither believe God will bless him/her if they stand on that promise too ?

    As I stated in my very first post on this topic that that is my approach to tithing.
    I'm not interested in the arguments that tithing is OT or to try and convince anyone that tithing is NT, no I approach God on the basis that he is
    not a man that he should lie and that all his promises are yeas and amen.

    Should I or anyone else that takes this approach feel guilt ... no way.
     
  17. Axehead

    Axehead New Member

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    Usually, in most loving relationships (which is what we have with Christ), you don't keep track of what is given in return. Simply because, it is not important.

    What is important, is that Christ is EVERYTHING and that is the treasure that you have been given. This whole notion about keeping track of God's blessings based on what you give seems very mercenary at best and not something the Holy Spirit inspires me to do.
     
  18. Brother James

    Brother James Active Member

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    The actions of men can accomplish absolutely nothing, and when men boast about "their" accomplishments, whether they are boasting about their church numbers or about how many people they fancy themselves as having "led to the Lord", they are misguided. And yes, if I point out how many new members "we" have added to our church because "we" tithe, that is human boasting. "We" cannot grow the church by one soul.

    No, I don't feel guilty for anything. I've taken in children that would have been thrown away by society and adopted them as my own. But it was God that gave them to me, and by providing for them I was giving to Him. The church that keeps track of how much I give to "the Lord" would not credit that as worth anything because it didn't go into their coffers. But my Bible tells me if I've done it to the least of God's children I've done it to Him. Giving only 10% of my income would have been much cheaper.

    If there was a biblical basis for a law of tithing, I'd be all for it. But the teachings I hear on tithing in many churches are legalistic teachings that remind me of the legalism of the Pharisees. Few people angered the Lord when he taught on the earth more than the Pharisees. And this questioning of others and their motives, asking questions like "are you feeling guilty because you are not playing your part?" strikes me as very Pharisee-like. Judge, shame, and then impose the law. Thankfully, God lets me know through means other than the judgments of men when I'm in the wrong.
     
  19. Enquirer

    Enquirer New Member

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    @ Axehead ...

    I completely agree with you, in any loving relationship there really should be no record keeping ... please note I never said that "we"
    need to keep track of God's blessings as such.
    What I did say was that people who do tithe they keep track of their giving to God and there really is nothing wrong with that Scripturally
    or otherwise.
    Do you believe that taking God at his word and believing in his promises are mercenary ?
    If God saw it that way then why did he give them to us ?
    If so then why tell us that all of his promises are yes and amen ?
    I am certainly not going to make a promise to you and tell you that I really mean it and then when you approach me to fulfil my promise
    I take issue with you and ask how dare you press me to honour my word.
    And God is exactly the same.

    @ Brother James ...

    I totally agree with you, many churches do approach tithing on a VERY LEGALISTIC basis and that is a shame.
    And the fact that you lovingly took children into your home and adopted them is outstanding.
    As far as our works being nothing or meaning nothing.
    Answer this question why does Paul speak of our works being judged as wood, hay or straw etc., if they didn't mean
    anything ?
    It's because they do.
    That does not mean we can go around and act like some kind of superhero, because it's Christ working in and through us.
    And if it is through my giving of 10% or whatever else then I thank God that he used me.
    We are only vessels in Christ's hands nothing more.
     
  20. Axehead

    Axehead New Member

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    Praise the Lord, brother. It is good to be free (from men) and able to give everything (not being limited to 10%) if that is how the Spirit leads. You are right, "Tithers" stop at 10% thinking they have done their "duty". I have a friend like that and he is very proud that he has tithed 10% for 14 years. Recently, he confided to me his disappointment that he has not received certain things on his prayer list and he has been waiting 14 years and tithing faithfully for them. One thing of special concern to him that he has tithed so faithfully for is to have been promoted to the church staff from a volunteer to a salaried staff member.

    Absolutely not! But you are changing my words and the discussion. I did not say "taking God" at His word was mercenary. Please re-read my response.
     
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